Vietnamese general warns US doomed in Iraq

[anakie]

Vo Nguyen Giap, the legendary general who masterminded Vietnam's wars of independence against the French and American armies, warned the United States that it faces defeat in Iraq.

The diminutive 92-year-old, whose only military lesson came from an old encyclopaedia entry describing the mechanism of hand grenades, said Washington would fail in its bid to impose its will on the Iraqi people.

"Any country that wants to impose its will on another nation will certainly fail and all nations fighting for their own independence will be victorious," retired General Giap said.

"Everyone in the world should acknowledge that each country has the right to independence and sovereignty. Nothing is more precious than independence and freedom."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1099246.htm

[NMDemDist2]

1. <sigh> Kick

:kick:

[saigon68]

2. Based on experience

This old guy has a valid opinion.

How long will the US stay in IRAQ-NAM?

5 years Like Kosovo

10 years Like Kuwait

20 years Like Quatar

30 years Like Spain

40 years Like Azores

50 years Like Korea

60 years Like Germany and Japan

100 years Like Guantanamo

[markses]

3. Vo Nguyen Giap is, of course, a military genius

on par with the greatest military minds in history.

His concept of People's War, with the slow intensification from small scale strikes, to mixed regular and guerilla forces, to regular forces was perfect for his particular occasion, both against the French, and against the Americans and the comprador elements in the RVN. One of the main reasons that the French were defeated at Dien Bien Phu was that they couldn't imagine that Giap could line up the requisite artillery. On the first day of the bombardment, it was clear that he had (the story and images of Vietnamese taking disassembled artillery pieces up mountainous jungle trails on specially constructed bicycles is dazzling in its logistical imagination); the French commander of artillery at Dien Bien Phu, who had promised only days before that the Viet Minh would be unable to bring sufficient pieces went into de Castries, declared that he had been "completely dishonored," then went back to his bunker and put a bullet in his head.

One could, of course, argue that Giap sacrificed his men with abandon. it is a valid charge, and both the first round of assaults on Dien Bien Phu and the eviceration of the guerilla forces in the RVN during the Tet offensive tend to support it. We do see, however, that after each large-scale loss of life, Giap re-engineered his strategy to reduce casualties. And in terms of effectiveness, I'm not sure any living military commander can boast the same success.

The man would be a real contender for "Person of the 20th Century," alongside any European or American you could suggest.

[frankieT]

4. nice post -eom-

[cliss]

9. Thanks, Markses.

I've read a little bit about the VietNam war. It has been pointed out here at the DU that we lost that war. After giving it our best shot, 15 years later, we realized that we had been bested.

I believe that guerrilla warfare was perfected in VietNam. We discovered an enemy which we could not combat. Our enemy was hidden in plain sight. Not all the artillery and highly armed troops in the world could stack up against a highly motivated, clever, tenacious enemy.

Sound familiar?

[blindpig]

12. indeed!

He's up there with MacArthur, whose Pacific campaign was the best use of the indirect approach in US military history, and Von Manstein who held off the Red Army for 2 years after the writing was on the wall.

[M3some]

15. Von Manstein.....

hey blindpig.....

I know about MacArthur and his genius, but could you elaborate about Manstein? I have always been interested in the eastern front and know what a crucial turing point Stalingrad was, but had not read or heard much about Manstein and his tactics in holding off the Red Army for so long.

Any extra info you might have would be much appreciated! Thanks!

[blindpig]

16. OK, I'm pretty rusty but here goes

Von Manstein took over command in the East sometime after Stalingrad and instituted a program mobile defense whereby rather than trying to hold a static line the Germans would fall back when heavily pressed, consolidate there forces and counterattack points of advantage. This tactic took advantage of the mobility and training of the German Panzer formations. Often times mobile groups(Panzergruppe) would get cut off from German lines only to fight their way back. If the simpleminded tactics of Hitler had been followed(don't give up an inch of land) the German army would have been shattered by late 43.
Which would have been a good thing.

Any help or corrections from the Wise would be appreciated. Haven't dealt with this material for years.

[newyawker99]

17. Hi M3some!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

5. Wow. No way would I have thought this guy was still alive. EOM

[Christ was Socialist]

6. What the hell does he know about war

/SARCASM

Don't upset bush, he's stupid enought to try it. So far he wants to put a man on the moon, and have the whole country on broadband internet. trust me HE IS STUPID ENOUGH To try to liberate vietnam

[Dover]

7. The ghost of Wars past..........

Now we need the ghost of the future to come and show us the results of our misguided actions.

[IndianaGreen]

8. Giap quoting Ho: "we have yet to fight the Americans."

Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap

On the battle of Dien Bien Phu:

We see the Dien Bien Phu victory as the victory (over) the French army and (over) the intervention of the Americans --because in the Dien Bien Phu campaign, 80 percent of the war expenditures were spent by the Americans. The Americans had their hands in it. So the Dien Bien Phu defeat was a defeat for both the French and the Americans. But whether the Americans had drawn the lessons from that, I don't think so. That's why the Americans continued in South Vietnam. ...

When we received news of the Dien Bien Phu victory, everyone practically jumped up in the air, they were so happy about it. But Ho Chi Minh said that this is only victory of the first step: we have yet to fight the Americans. It was very clear then.

<snip>

On the United States' involvement in Vietnam:

In 1945, some Americans parachuted into our war zone (for a) meeting (with) our late President Ho Chi Minh. ... Back then, President Roosevelt's attitude was that the U.S. did not want to see events like the war with France coming back to Indochina, but later this attitude was changed. After the August Revolution in 1945, the relationship between Vietnam and the U.S. could have been good, and we wished that it had been good.

Then only the intelligent people or those with vision and wisdom, such as Eisenhower, ... saw the impracticality of the (domino) theory. And any mistakes were due to following the domino theory. They thought that if the theory was put into practice here, it would become the pivotal location for (preventing) the spread of communism to the whole Southeast Asia. So Vietnam was made the central location to check the expansion of communism, and this was what President Kennedy believed, and it was mistake. ...

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/cold.war/episodes/11/interviews/giap/

[retread]

11. Domino theory--- Now we have the same thing. Force a

democracy to start in the middle east and the rest of the countries will fall in line and become democracies! I know it is a danger to underestimate the ignorance of these thugs, but surely they don't really believe that line of crap? It's just another propaganda line isn't it?

[enough]

10. kick (nt)

[baldguy]

13. Didn't Thomas Jefferson say something similar?

ya' know - it's called the Declaration of Independence.

[9215]

14. Saddam handed copy of Ho Chi Minh's treatise on

fighting imperialism. This was on Nightline back in the fall.