Court boots ACLU's plaza suit (downtown Salt Lake ) | Salt Lake Tribune

[Ediacara]

Court boots ACLU's plaza suit


The tranquil reflecting pool on the LDS
Church's Main Street Plaza belies the
legal turmoil that swirls around the
plaza.
(Ryan Galbraith/The Salt Lake Tribune)

By Heather May
The Salt Lake Tribune

Salt Lake City leaders made a "rational" decision when they sold the Main Street Plaza's public-access easement to the LDS Church for $4.5 million and 4.5 acres on the west side, U.S. District Judge Dale Kimball ruled Monday.

In dismissing the latest plaza lawsuit, the federal judge said the American Civil Liberties Union failed to prove the city violated the First Amendment's prohibitions against restricting speech or endorsing religion when it sold the easement. The ruling allows the church to keep its ban of behavior and speech it deems offensive on the property.

Kimball noted the city followed an appellate court suggestion to eliminate the easement. "hen the city merely elected one of two choices presented by the 10th Circuit , it can hardly be said that the reason for its decision was to promote or endorse the LDS Church," he wrote in the 82-page ruling.

More at the Salt Lake Tribune

[BayCityProgressive]

1. some of these ACLU decisions are just ridiculous

I was oging to join because I oppose the Patriot Act and other civil rights infringements..but on some things they are just out there in la la land.

[Bandit]

2. Can you give us some specific examples please

:shrug: or are you just talking out your ass?

[BayCityProgressive]

4. how about

not allowing convicted child molesters to be listed in neighborhoods with children. Many of these people are repeat offenders. If I had kids I wouldn't want to have some guy who raped 2 or 3 kids as my neighbor and not know it. They did the crime, let there be consequences. Or how about taking under god off currency and out of the pledge...that's a great way to make sure the left stays irrelevant for the next 20 years. How about how they are defending the highschool kid running for student council because the school made him ake down signs about his sexuality. I am gay and I think this was just dumb. No one puts up signs saying "vote for me, Im straight" so why should it be any different for gays.

The ACLU has done a ton of great great things..but some of their priorities are way off target in my opinion.

[Red State Rebel]

11. They are also defending NAMBLA

The National Man-Boy Love Association. Their website actually has a section instructing men on how to choose vulnerable boys to pick up.

It's disgusting. As long as the ACLU supports that crap, I won't support them.

[jdj]

13. They defend their right to free speech and free assembly

Which disgusts me, I hate it too, and I have marched in gay pride marches where these pedophiles have insinuated themselves, although they are not at all welcome, and were it not for the ACLU they would be turned away.

The ACLU defends the constitution as it applies to civil rights, not the actions of NAMBLA per se.

[Red State Rebel]

14. I can't separate their civil rights from their illegal activities....

what they promote is illegal in the United States - how do you have rights to promote illegal activities??

[Jokerman]

12. Its about the constitution!

The ACLU defends constitutional rights, even if the people involved may not seem deserving. You didn't mention any specific cases but in each of the situations you listed there are constitutional issues that are greater than the people involved.

Even a convicted child molester still has rights. I believe the real issue there is double jeopardy, or the state being able to add new penalties onto someone who has already "paid their debt to society". For anyone convicted after the notification law was enacted, this is not an issue.

I don't want a child molester living next door either but I also don't want the state to be able to retroactively raise parking tickets fees and bill me for fines already paid.

Sure, the ACLU has come to the defense of Klan, child molesters, Illinois Nazis and other people I wish didn't exist, but that won't stop me from supporting them.

[Bandit]

15. that's a great way to make sure the left stays irrelevant for the next 20

What exactly does the ACLU's challenge about religion and government have to do with the left? Are you saying only the left endorses the ACLU and therefore questions government about their excesses? And about the right to identify felons. What if that person stole a million dollars or served their time for burglary? Would it still be acceptable to broadcast their offense to the neighborhood. How about any DWI's you may have had. How would you like broadcast every offense you ever committed to your neighborhood. It is a form of double jeopardy and I am opposed to that. There is every bit as much chance that the offender will not repeat as there is that they will no matter what the offense. This is a form of additional punishment not ordered by the court so IMHO an unusual punishment to which we should all be protected.

[Ediacara]

3. The reason they sued is:

Salt Lake City traded a huge plaza in the middle of downtown Salt Lake to the LDS church in exchange for an equivalent parcel of land somewhere else in town.

The plaza had previously been a public plaza where people could demonstrate, but now the LDS church will not allow anyone to demonstrate there.

The ACLU was suing so that protesters could continue to protest where they had been protesting for years, right in the center of Salt Lake.

[BayCityProgressive]

5. Well isn't this a local issue?

The people elected the people who did this...if they disagree they should voice their disagreement or vote them out. I don't see how it is the city favoring the church.

[ret5hd]

6. yeah, maybe the fed govt can solve that "protest" problem...

by just selling all the public acceess areas to murdoch and moon.

on edit: and what does it being a "local" issue have to do with it? It's OK for a city, county or state govt to quell the rights of the citizens to protest?

[meatloaf]

7. Have you ever been to Salt Lake?

The Church has an unhealthy influence on the society there. The area in question also included a section of Main Street that was paved over and turned into a parking lot. When you consider that over 50% of the state is LDS you often get a tyranny of the majority in UT and the ACLU is more than welcome to try and loosen the strangle hold the Church has on happenings in and around Salt Lake.

[Ediacara]

8. The church didn't want those darned protesters on public land near them

So they said, "Hey Rocky (SLC mayor), can we trade this public land in front of our buildings for this lot on the other end of town and $4.5M?"

And Rocky (who is a Dem unfortunately) says, "Why sure, I can totally understand why you'd want the plaza in front of your buildings to be totally unspoiled by the Democratic process."

[BayCityProgressive]

9. so you are telling me

there is nowhere else in the entire city to protest at? I find that hard tbelieve. Also, if you don't like the mayors actions vote him out. Perhaps the state does favor the church but I don't see how selling this property is favoring the church. Perhaps it was a bad decision.but it wasn't a choice between two different groups beliefs with one being chosen over the other.

[jdj]

10. This is about constitutional law.

And the Bill of Rights, which religious institutions don't seem to be too fond of, except for the 2nd amendment.

I'm not crazy about all of the ACLU's cases either, but I understand their desire to protect and defend the constitution, which gives everyone, even in Utah, certain inalienable rights.