Abuse photos undermine Bush's religious rhetoric

[UpInArms]

Church leaders object to casting God on U.S. side

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/05/07/MNGV66H4IU1.DTL

The abuse of Iraqi prisoners by some U.S. soldiers points to the danger of President Bush describing the occupation of Iraq and the war on terror as battles between forces of good and the "evildoers" of the world, religious leaders say.

Even before compromising photos of nude and hooded prisoners surfaced in the news media, some mainline Protestant and American Muslim leaders had criticized the president for a series of speeches that appeared to say that God was on the side of America.

"We question that kind of theology -- putting 'good' on us and 'evil' on the other,'' said Antonios Kireopoulous, the associate general secretary for international affairs at the National Council of Churches, the major ecumenical agency in the United States.

<snip>

Rosemary Ruether, a professor of theology at the Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley, said the president and many of his supporters on the Christian right speak of his administration as "messianic agents chosen by God to combat evil and to establish good.''

...more...

[Damn Hippie]

1. Just wait until the video of the Iraqi boy prisoners comes to light.

I am wondering why, if God appointed Bush POTUSA, why isn't this going better for the Christian crusaders?

[frylock]

8. because "god" has his(?) hands full with the nhl and nba playoffs..

there's a lot of prayers to be answered around this time of the year.

[prolesunited]

10. What video?

What did they do with the boys?!?!

[eurolefty]

23. It is alleged that U.S. soldiers raped young boys

Which, for some peculiar reason, is considered worse in the U.S. than the rape of girls.:wtf:

[moof]

15. What makes you think it isn't going great for them ?

[leftchick]

2. Good article!

I am glad someone is pointing out the crazy Theocracy shit eminating from the WH!

[saigon68]

3. "messianic agents chosen by God to combat evil and to establish good.''

Our CHRISTIAN MESSIANC legacy in IRAQ-NAM

WHAT WOULD JESUS SAY ????????????????

When the POW had a PLASTIC FLASHLIGHT RAMMED UP HIS RECTUM ???

When a GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG BITES HIM IN THE TESTICLES ???

When the POW had a 220 Volt wire attached to the TIP OF HIS PENIS ???

When Lynndie England was encouraged to help the POWs obtain erections so they could perform
ORAL SEX ACTS ON EACH OTHER and the PERKY PRINCESS OF ABU GHRAIB
PRISON COULD SHOUT "HE'S GETTING HARD"???

When Lynndie England the PERKY PRINCESS OF ABU GHRAIB DRAGGED a naked POW
around with a Dog Leash

When SPC Sabrina Harman, 372nd MP Company, stated in her sworn statement regarding the
incident where a detainee was placed on a box with electric wires attached to his fingers, toes, and
penis, ““that her job was to keep detainees awake.”” It is interesting to speculate that SASSY
SABRINA UNDOUBTEDLY ACCOMPLISHED HER MISSION BY TURNING ON THE
JUICE..

When POW’S were FORCED to wear Dirty Women’s Underwear on their Heads

When a POW was beaten to death, HIS BODY PACKED IN ICE and TAKEN OUT IN THE
DESERT AND DUMPED ???

When a Civilian Interrogator ANALLY RAPED A 16 YEAR OLD BOY IN FRONT OF GI
WITNESSES and is going to get a free pass because he was under NO ONES JURISDICTION ???

My God hast thou forsaken us ???

[central scrutinizer]

22. WWJPADCO?

Who Would Jesus Put A Dog Collar On?

[the Kelly Gang]

4. he's only got Lucifer on his side... is it just me or does he look

completely like it's so galling for him to talk about it.?

[Alpharetta]

5. "That's not the America I know" Bush said

Cordry on the Daily Show last night: (I'm paraphrasing from memory)

"Yep. Bush was right. We invaded Iraq with the wrong America. We shouldn't have used the mean nasty America, the sexual abusing, sodomizing America. We should have used the other America."

Stewart asks "What other America, Rob?"

"Oh you know. The other one. The one we should have used.

One thing we learned. Electrode genital clips are NOT the way to win their hearts and minds."

[SEpatriot]

6. God has not been on their side from the beginning

The pressure needs to be put on these people for invoking God to support their immoral policies

[damnraddem]

7. Oh, it's all quite compatible with the god that Dubya worships.

I'm not surprised that monster-worshippers like Dubya promote policies that cause torture.

It does show that at least Hannity and Rush are more honest than Dubya, in that they openly announce that they condone the torture.

[boobooday]

9. New Headline

"God Moves to Distance Himself from the Bush Administration."

http://www.wgoeshome.com

[central scrutinizer]

11. WWJPADCO?

Who Would Jesus Put A Dog Collar On?

[Malva Zebrina]

12. I have read much by Rosemary Reuther

just google in her name--she is indeed, worth it.

It might be time for people to actually settle down and question their motives with regard to the human race

When this stupid war began under a stupid man who professed to hear messages from the god, many Christians advocating praying for our troops.

Well that is good, however, if they would have taken the time to contemplate what they were praying for--they were praying that we would WIN this war, that was waged on lies.

They prayed that we would WIN!!! and that meant that other human beings, innocents would be killed by our prayer enabled troops.

In actuality they were
praying for the murder of other human beings that did not a thing to them.

Consider that when
"praying" for our troops.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

13. Don't let the fundies deal with the fact black-n-white thinking is flawed.

It's so much easier to deal with the inequities of life and tragedy/horrors by seemingly "good" people, if you live by "black-n-white" thinking. I haven't met a Repuke or fundie yet that isn't inflexible in thought or capable of understanding that the world and morality exist in shades of gray.

Pitiful, small-minded, and lemming-like idiots...ALL OF THEM.

JB

[young_at_heart]

14. Bush may have to rethink the definition of ............"Evil-doers"!

"You're either with us or against us" has taken on a new meaning these days!

[saigon68]

20. They'll spin their way out of it.

Just watch

[The Stranger]

16. Bush is the closest thing to "Satan" that I can think of.

[progressivebydesign]

17. I'm not mocking mental illness.. But..

Is the God that told Bush to invade Iraq, and told him he was "chosen" to be our pResident, the same one that has told women to drown their children, beat them to death, or kill their husbands? The same God that speaks to people, telling them to kill?

Really. I ask that as a practical question. The fundies think his remarks are so normal, while I see them as demented.

[PurityOfEssence]

26. Yep, same fella. Real dick, too; wonder why so many people like him

When you start tallying up the balance of good and evil attributed to this guess-creature, its a pretty thoroughgoing failure.

When there's a superior entity, then none of us really matter; of course, the person who claims acceptance by and love from this thing is a cut above the other humanoid nothings, so he/she is justified in a little godlike activity too.

So don't sweat it, believers: go ahead and kill with the permission of god, you're obviously superior to your victims since you're on the mailing list. It's a fucked up and haphazard world, this alone should make psychotic selfish brutes think they're created in his image.

[crossroads]

32. As Bush sees himself in the mirror

[Loco_moco]

18. The Pope thinks boosh is the anti-christ...?

..this is an interesting article...

http://www.counterpunch.org/madsen04222003.html

<snip>
Bush's blood lust, his repeated commitment to Christian beliefs, and his constant references to "evil doers," in the eyes of many devout Catholic leaders, bear all the hallmarks of the one warned about in the Book of Revelations - the anti-Christ. People close to the Pope claim that amid these concerns, the Pontiff wishes he was younger and in better health to confront the possibility that Bush may represent the person prophesized in Revelations. John Paul II has always believed the world was on the precipice of the final confrontation between Good and Evil as foretold in the New Testament. Before he became Pope, Karol Cardinal Wojtyla said, "We are now standing in the face of the greatest historical confrontation humanity has gone through. I do not think that wide circles of the American society or wide circles of the Christian community realize this fully. We are now facing the final confrontation between the Church and the anti-Church, of the Gospel versus the anti-Gospel." The Pope, who grew up facing the evils of Hitler and Stalin, knows evil when he sees it. Although we can all endlessly argue over the Pope's effectiveness in curtailing abuses within his Church, his accomplishments external to Catholicism are impressive.
<end>

..and the Pope believes they LIHOP?

<snip>
According to journalists close to the Vatican, the Pope and his closest advisers are also concerned that the ultimate acts of evil - the September 11 terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon - were known in advance by senior Bush administration officials. By permitting the attacks to take their course, there is a perception within the Roman Catholic Church hierarchy that a coup d'etat was implemented, one that gave Bush and his leadership near-dictatorial powers to carry out their agenda.
<end>

holy cow..!

:hi:

[happynewyear]

31. I'll go with the pope on this one

Pope John Paul was absolutely correct. He doesn't go running around and sending envoys to everyone with "messages" to be heard.

I knew when the pope told * that if he went to Iraq that it would be without God was the reality. When I found that the war was a "go" any which way no matter what, I feared it would become this ultimate evil that we now are witnessing.

* was doomed before he began, plain and simple. He has no recourse now, it is too late.

[AspenRose]

19. "By their fruits you shall know them"

You shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles?

Even so every good tree brings forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit.

A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruits, nor can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Every tree that does not bring forth good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

Therefore by their fruits you shall know them. Matthew 7:16-20

[Democat]

21. When the church starts calling Bush an idiot, he has problems

But he still has Hannity and Rush and Savage!

[Malva Zebrina]

24. almost all the mainstream religions/churches came out and opposed Bush's

invasion of Iraq. The only one who did not was the Southern Baptist Convention.

He paid NO attention to any. He refused to meet with any of them at all, including the Vatican.

He is a total evil man, who played them all because he could get away with it.

He knew more than they did about religion and god and the sanctioning of the murder of thousands of innocent peop
Yup

He is receiving the messages fromn the god. The god tells him to slay anyone and everyone who does not agree with him

Yippee--the god reigns--the god wins over the god of the Iraqi children

[lumpy]

25. Bush has been spieling

his good vs. evil crap since the day he was installed in office. It can only be concluded that the design for power by military force was well designed before this mal-administraion took over power in the US. It is an Hitlerian scheme to use military means, death and destruction, to force weaker countries to bend to US will and power. Bush declared a list of US enemies early in the game, the good vs. evil theme that still manages to survive amongst people in the US.

[Boomer]

27. So, do they ever wonder....

[Desperadoe]

28. Well...your flag decal won't get you...

into Heaven anymore.

It's already overcrowded from you're dirty little war.

Now Jesus don't like killin', no matter what the reason for.

So your flag decal won't get you......

INTO HEAVEN ANYMORE!!!


John Prine

[saigon68]

37. Well put

[theHandpuppet]

29. Wrong from the very beginning....

I don't see how anyone who calls themself a Christian could support what we have been doing in Iraq.

What would Jesus say? How about this:

"Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy."

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called Sons (and Daughters) of God."

"For I was hungry and you gave me food,
I was thirsty and you gave me drink,
I was a stranger and you welcomed me,
I was naked and you clothed me,
I was sick and you visited me,
I was in prison and you came to me.'
Truly, I say to you,
as you did it to
one of the least of these,
my brethren,
you did it to me."

Ye have heard that it hath been said, an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
But I say unto you, that ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

-- -- the words of Jesus Christ

and finally...

"Thou Shalt Not Kill" -- God

[Malva Zebrina]

30. there is no doubt in my mind that eventually Bush's invocation of his

"messages" from the god, would backfire on him.

Messages from a god, over thousands of years of history, have inevitably been proven to be manipulations of persons wanting to rule over the masses.

Bush is NOT a spiritual man. He USED the religion to sway the masses

and they believed him

and this has been the history of religion for thousands of years.

Moses used it to control the people, Hitler used it, many evil people have used it, and now
bush uses it.

He has no idea of what it means to be a spiritual believer.

He views religion as a tool, one which he has control over--a tool to convince non thinking, naive and gullible people to support him and his fascist leaning government.
They have already been conditioned to believe by their piety to a particular religion, so it is a push over on the part of
bush.

He knows how to play that card.

[crossroads]

33. That image of piety is cultivated and used

to placate his core support group - the fundeys. :puke:

[cosmicone]

34. Kerry needs to use this

I wish Kerry would reach the core American values by capitalizing on this with a message "This is NOT the kind of people we are" and not let Bush get away with saying that only the underlings did it. Perhaps a soundbite "Fish rots from the head first" would resonate and Bush won't get a free pass.

[Steven_S]

36. A very simple phrase....

That I have always used on my children when trying to lead them in the right direction:

This is not who we are.

This is not what we do.

[yardwork]

35. Interesting quote at the end of the article....

The comments offended many Muslims, including Helal Omeira, the Northern California director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations.

Omeira also has been shocked by the abusive photos coming out of Iraq in the past week, but has urged his fellow Muslims not to overreact.

"Blaming Americans for the actions of a few soldiers,'' he said, "is the same as blaming all Muslims for 9/11.''

That's exactly what a lot of Americans have done. They've blamed all Muslims for 9/11, and that's how they justify our invasion, occupation, and atrocities in Iraq. BushCo knows full well that a lot of Americans are confused about geography and current events, and they've used this ignorance to encourage Americans to think that the Iraqis were responsible for 9/11.

I admire Director Omeira for stating that not all Americans are responsible for the actions of those who committed these atrocities. He is being generous.