Soldier Faces Court-Martial for Desertion

[kskiska]

SAVANNAH, Ga. - A U.S. soldier who left his unit in Iraq (news - web sites) rather than fight for what he called an "oil-driven war" faces a court-martial Wednesday on a desertion charge.

Staff Sgt. Camilo Mejia, 28, of Miami Beach, Fla., could go to prison for a year and receive a bad conduct discharge if convicted by a military jury at Fort Stewart.

The Florida National Guardsman left his unit in Iraq in October on a two-week furlough to the United States. He was gone for five months before turning himself in to the Army in March.

(snip)

He also claimed he saw Iraqi prisoners treated "with great cruelty" when he was put in charge of processing detainees a year ago at al-Assad, an Iraqi air base occupied by U.S. forces.

Mejia filed the statements March 16, before the Iraqi prisoner scandal at the Abu Ghraib prison became public. Fort Stewart officials said they have forwarded his account to the Army.


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http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040518/ap_on_re_us/anti_war_soldier_2

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. I must say Mejia

is getting off light, and that is good

The penalty for desertion in time of war could be death

He is getting a big chicken dinner... I have no idea what the military is trying to tell us

[ET Awful]

2. Well, the couldn't very well punish him severely . . .

and ignore the fact that the Chimp in Chief deserted during wartime himself.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Yes, yes they could

if they wanted to make an example


There is more to this than just they could not becuase of Bush...

This is an onion... the miliary does not work this way.

Now connect dots, they are also giving Strickling (sp) the first specialist to go on Court Martial for Abu Ghraib a Big Chicken Dinner as well... he should be getting a tad more than just that... oh never mind that the OIC is not even facing more than an administrative career ending letter... BFD

There is something going on wiht JAG.

We are gonna severely punish them, all of them, but we are only giving them the mildest we can get away with...

I read this as JAG is no longer behind Shrub and the Miliary is NOT behind shrub

Yep reading them pesky tea leaves

[Just Me]

10. I didn't know desertion included a death penalty punishment.

Where is the justice in that?

I am sure there will be those who jump all over me,...but, I simply cannot see how the death penalty is a just punishment for desertion. Nor do I see a "kill or be killed" mentality as some kind of carrot or reward to serve one's country.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. In time of war it does

It is rarely used, and usually happens when the desertor abandons his post in theater.

For the record the last person to be convicted and executed was
an American trooper during WW II, at the end of it.

It is VERY RARE... but it is there

This kid is getting out easy, with what is colloquially called a
big chicken dinner... if they wanted to make a point they would do
something far more serious, like some serious jail time

They are not... read the tea leaves

[Just Me]

20. I love tea leaves *smile* even if I don't read them. n/t

[One_Life_To_Give]

15. Only Option

In the end when all the rest of the conditioning fails the last motivator is this. In the end how else can you force the troops to advance into withering fire knowing many will die, unless their alternative is the certainty of death.

[napi21]

3. I'm sure he's not the only one! I understand that's why

the Pentagon stopped the furloughs. Too many just didn't return after leave.

Sorry to have to say this, but desertion is punishable through Court Marshal. That's one of the deterents to keep their people from disobeying orders.

The best this soldier and the rest of them can hope for is a pardon by President Kerry. You remember the pardoning of the guys who fled to Canada! They were pardoned too.

[corriger]

4. a professional perhaps not wanting to fight a conscripts war

being waged by conscription avoiders. Modern professional armies of democratic societies are not meant for nor designed to be used for plunder and piracy. That is unless...

[napi21]

6. Then don't volunteer!

I don't disagree with you, but we aren't talking about draftees here. They are all volunteers who took an oath to OBEY the orders of thier Commander in Chief......ALL THE TIME, not just when you agree with the order.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. No the oath was taken to PROTECT

the CONSTITUTION... they are also obligated to disobey ILEGAL Orders

So nice that you understand NOT this

[Just Me]

11. So, absenting oneself from a war that is against the Constitution,...

,...and the laws of the US,...that would not be considered "desertion",...would it?

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. If they suspend the Constitution they suspend all

oaths, I wonder how many troopers will make the connection that their obligation is done for....

But the oath is to protect the Constitution against enemies both foreign and domestic... we are seeing somethign very interesing
going on in the armed forces...and if you think they are behind this war, I have news for you, they are not... they hate what this is doing to the insittition.

Want to be really scared? We have now the conditions present for a garden variety Military Coup.

[Just Me]

25. Bullshit! If the Constitution is suspended, all bets are OFF!!!

And I do NOT believe the "Patriots" of this country will allow that to happen!!!

We are talking about a small, well-connected bunch of wacko arrogant freaks. You are giving them way, way too much,...benefit of their capacity to,...really fuck up this country. I have more confidence, perhaps misplaced, I admit,...in our people to swing this pendulum back to center.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. Yep you are right

try to re-read what I wrote

If it is suspended the troops will no longer be bound by the oath they took... hence they are no longer, technically in the armed forces, which cease to exsit for the duration

Ask yourself, where will those TRAINED troops stand?

Behind the Constitution, and the Patriots

or

Behind Bush and his minions?

If they do suspend it, this is purely the recipee for civil war and many of the troops will take OUR side.

This is why we have reached the END GAME STAGE!

[napi21]

14. Hey, I hate the war too! But congress did, under the

Constitution, give Shrub a very broad OK! Doesn't that make this was "withing the laws of the US"?

I wish you were right, and I'm sure most of the military (at least those under the rank of Lt.) do as well. But call it brain washing, or intimidation, most of those troops have been instructed to follow orders, and always say "YES SIR!". They hate it, but they do it!

[ET Awful]

17. The oath I took when I joined the military years ago hasn't changed

It ran like this:

I, _________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.


The Constitution has priority in that oath. The orders of the President and any superior officers are obeyed insofar as they fall within regulations and the UCMJ. Orders contrary to the Constitution are also contrary to the UCMJ. Any treaties the US has entered into (i.e. Geneva Conventions, UN Charter, etc.) become the supreme law of the land pursuant to the Constitution, and any orders that violate those treaties would also be contrary to the UCMJ.

[napi21]

18. Forgive me for sounding uninformed, but why didn't ANYONE

say that when Shrub & Rummy announced that al Qeada prisoners didn't fall under the rules of the Geneva Convention? I've never been in the military, just mey son. We never got quite this detailed.

Isn't this why we have Reps. and Sens that are all mostly lawyers? If these decisions violate the Constitution or the UCMJ or both, why didn't they open their mouths then? Hell, they still aren't saying anything like that!

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Watch C-SPAN

They have, in hearings... not quite in the words you are using... but we have had questions to exactly THIS EFFECT.

Now it does show you have never been in the military

Soldiers are trained in the fine points of an ilegal order, and what an ilegal order is. Not only American Soldieres by the way... but if you are going to tell a commanding officer

"With all due respect Sir, I refuse to obey this order since it is an ilegal order," or words to that effect, you'd better make sure that the law is with you... all the way, and that your chain will stand behind you, or at least you hope they will. That is why those kids at Abu Ghraib are facing a Court Martial, but that is also why the Officers in Charge, (paging BGen Karpinsky and Col Pappas, not to mention LtGen Sanches, General Abizaid, LtGen Boykin, UnderSecreatary for Intelligence Carbone, Under Secretary for Policy Feith, Under Secreatary Wolfowitz, Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld and Commander in Chief Bush) should be facing the music as well, in a far worst way than the kids facing those court martials. They are having six hicks (nothing personal to West Virginia, their words not mine) face the music for the crimes they ordered.

Life is not as easy as saying, with all due respect Sir, I refuse this order.

I know, been there done that... and that was the hardest thing I ever did, refuse an ilegal order from a full bird. (for the record not US Army, but still his order was ilegal)

But the oath taken by troops (and naturalized citizens) is to the Constitution, not to the CiC... or any politicial instititution

[Just Me]

23. So, the "priority" IS to protect the Constitution and laws of our country.

Right?

How can a prosecution be inflicted upon soldiers who are abiding by that priority notwithstanding that it may conflict with a "commander-in-chief"?

<on edit - since few soldiers are "informed" about the legalities involved in "orders" passed onto them, I cannot help but to be far, far more forgiving of an ignorance than the "command" which has taken advantage of both that ignorance and the trust such sacrificing individuals invest in "those" people.>

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. Small history lesson

back in 1974 when we had the Watergate Crisis, the Military was
asked by some in Congress... where does the US Military stand insofar as the Commander in Chief is concerned?

The Joint Chiefs gave a very confusing answer to those outside the military...

Sir we stand behind the Constitution.

They did not quite get it back then... and I fear most people are not fully getting it now. The Army has a duty first and foremost behind the Constitution.

We have entered the End Game stage, we truly have. What should be scary is that we have the conditions that could also lead to a coup, or an attempted coup by Bush and the begining of a civil war... and the question is where will the armed forces stand?

I also suspect that many high ranking officers were canned because they were not yes men... but you have to ask yourself how many Brigadiers (one star generals) and how many full and light colonels are loyal first and foremost to the Constitution. I ask, becuase people like Eric Shinseki, were removed from command.

End game is here

Oh and one more thing, the legalities of the laws of war should have been taught to the MPs, they are the ones tasked with keeping POWs safe. This is not the way it works in the military. Those kids are saying we were not trained... BULLOCKS, just like medics in the field, MPS get the most traiining in the Geneva Convention and treatment of enemy combatants, POWs and all other intricancies... nice excuse though and if they were not taught, as the kids said... this is a huge breakdown in the chain of command STARTING with Bush.

[Just Me]

26. I just have to disagree. If my Mother "gets" it,...I suspect,...

,...there are a helluva lot more American who are "getting" it, even if it is a quietly held position. We have come a LONG way in the last thirty years.

While you may be "engaging" in protecting all that we have accomplished,...please, please do not demean or dismiss how far our people have travelled,...notwithstanding that their loyalty and trust has been betrayed.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. Back in '74

the House and the Senate did not get it, what the oath that troops took means

Tehy still do not get it... it is the same oath of office that Congress Critters take

You think DeLay gets it?

And yes we have reached end game

Still ask yourself, where will the miliary stand during this phase of US History?

I suspect with those of us who get it... but those still inside the beltway don't get it... they get it even less today than they did in '74

Now you get it?

[Tinoire]

28. That's asking a bunch of poorly educated kids like Lynndie to do

an awful lot of thinking about the subtleties of the UCMJ when their moral compass is already off and there's probably not a JAG anywhere near.

The officers & NCOs above them failed those kids, misled them and told them they were protecting the constitution of the United States against a bunch of people who hate us for our yeehaaw freedom. Thye officers above them preferred to follow illegal orders & pass them on to her. If anyone is trained in what is a legal and what is an illegal order, it's the officers- not the enlisted. Enlisted people are thought to follow the damn order unless they want a lot of trouble because they are not paid to "think"- officers are.

You have to wonder also, where was some idiot like Lynndie going to get access to a Manual for Courts Martial in the middle of the desert?

There's hardly any constitution left anyway. Robert Byrd fought strenuously for it but a bunch of Republicans and Democrats helped Bush make mincemeat of the constitution & crowned Bush war-king. He & his henchmen gave orders. Officers passed them on. Fools like Lynndie carried them out without a Manual for Courts Martial in sight and thinking that they were serving the best interests of their country.

Who is really to blame here? Those who destroyed the constitution Lynndie had sworn to protect in her back-woods retarded way? Or the military people caught in the nightmare of having to follow orders from the crowned war king?

Karpinski + 6 are mere fall-guys.

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. One of the decsions

made by the Nuremberg Special Tribunals was to essentially give
Privates and Private First Class, even Specialists a pass.

In some ways they should....

But at the same time they SHOULD have been taught about ilegal orders and the duties of an MP.

My Husband, who just retired from the Navy, got that training IN BOOTCAMP... so don't tell me they don't, because they do.

Now truth be told this was a failure of the chain of command going all the way to the White House...

I understand that, and I also understand how hard it is to teach kids the fine points of an ilegal order... again been there done that... and I still clearly remember almost geting killed because some of my trainees did not get it either...

18 year old kids don't have their morality fully there... but they are counting on those six hicks to take the rap essencially for Bush.

[Tinoire]

33. We essentially agree

I remember the training I got about illegal orders in Bootcamp and it was laughable. All I was told was that if someone gave me an illegal order, I didn't have to follow it. Ok, so far so good... Now what's an illegal order? All we got was a few examples & then "Use your common sense", "talk to your chain of command", and "go see a JAG".

The other thing that's often forgotten is that most of them weren't MPs so they had no training at all. Lynndie was a clerk and one of the males was a mechanic. They knew literally nothing and were put in a situation where Intel officers (basically Captains and above) and civilians were praising them, telling them what a great job they were doing and how much they were contributing to the safety of the US and to the success of the war effort. How flattering to a bunch of lower enlisted kids.

Suckers.

I hate to sound like I feel for them because I really don't; I just, like you, want to make sure those who are really responsible burn for this.

I will be really interesting to see what they say at their trials.

[Tinoire]

31. Also,,, have you checked out Rummy's "Warrior Ethos" program?

The training you and I got is nothing like the training they're getting now. For the last few years, the Army has had a new program designed to "awaken the inner warrior" inside of every soldier.

Rumsfeld, Cambone, General Shinseki & Kevin Byrnes can be very proud of their program. These people ridiculed Clinton's army for not being tough enough and fostering a more thoughtful environment- may they all rot in hell because their little warriors are a grave threat to all of us.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. I have and given how

shinseki was canned, somehow I suspect he was not fully
going along

Once this is over a lot of reforms will be needed, and yhou know
exactly where this will be needed? YOUNG officers just coming
out of the Academy and young officers who were formed during this time.

We will need to drive into their little brains that Geneva is important. Hell we will have to teach them the real values.

Enlisted, yep they are important, but hte turn around among enlisted is far higher. I am worried about them young butter bars that will become four stars in thirty years or so... the seeds if you get my drift.

[Tinoire]

34. Yep! Totally agree about the seeds! n/t

[tom_paine]

7. Does this mean Emperor Bunnypants* desertion trial is starting soon?

Of course not.

Imperial Family members are not bound by Imperial Amerikan Law (or what laughably passes for it).

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Not quite the Imperial Family members will

either be tried for War Crimes by us, or the Hague, makes desertion
a walk in the park actually

[gratuitous]

16. If you want to support SSgt Mejia

Consider giving a donation to Tod Ensign (really, that's his name) at:

Citizen Soldier
PO Box 647
New York NY 10160-0265

This non-profit (that means it's tax-deductible) outfit is organizing legal and political support for SSgt Mejia. Read all about them at www.Citizen-Soldier.org

[daleo]

21. This seems relevant

"He also claimed he saw Iraqi prisoners treated "with great cruelty" when he was put in charge of processing detainees a year ago at al-Assad, an Iraqi air base occupied by U.S. forces."

I will have to trust people's judgment that he is being let off rather lightly. If so, perhaps it is because he can reveal some secrets they would prefer not to see the light of day.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Bingo

he may actually become a witness in upcoming court martials.

Folks reality is this has entered the end game... the whole kit and caboodle has entered the end game...