(*)GW Bush's America: Americans Pay Price for Speaking Out

[DUreader]

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0809-01.htm


Published on Saturday, August 9, 2003 by the Toronto Star
GW Bush's America
Americans Pay Price for Speaking Out
Dissenters Face Job Loss, Arrest, Threats But Activists not Stopped by
Backlash
by Kathleen Kenna

He's a Vietnam War hero from a proud lineage of warriors who served the United States, so he
never expected to be called a traitor.

After 39 years in the Marines, including commands in Somalia and Iraq, Gen. Anthony Zinni never
imagined he would be tagged "turncoat."

The epithets are not from the uniforms but the suits — "senior officers at
the Pentagon," the now-retired general says from his home in
Williamsburg, Va.

"They want to question my patriotism?" he demands testily.

To question the Iraq war in the U.S. — and individuals from Main St.
merchants to Hollywood stars do — is to be branded un-American.

Dissent, once an ideal cherished in the U.S. Constitution's First
Amendment, now invites media attacks, hate Web sites, threats and job
loss.

After Zinni challenged the administration's rationale for the Iraq war last fall,
he lost his job as President George W. Bush's Middle East peace envoy
after 18 months.

[pink_poodle]

1. Just finished reading this article in the Toronto Star!!!.........more....

Regarding freepers and neo-cons - all are equally guilty in this rise of fascism, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and the hate that has spread all through America. The believed what they WANTED to believe. It's as simple as that. They could have been like the rest of the world and said that things did not ring true or add up. The wanted to believe all this crap and they wanted to have a free reign on hate. That is what they do.

I was at the drug store yesterday (in Canada) and overheard a conversation about how Americans have become fascists. Yes. They are now talking about how fascist America is, just as casually as they would talk about an impending rain storm. After warning my American friends for over a year now that I see this happening, it is finally all in place and they are the last to know about it. Kind of makes me just want to shake my head.

[rook1]

2. Americans

...are not facists and I resent the implication that we are. The government might have a facist mentality but that hardly translates to "Americans" being facist. I am not a facist...are you? are your friends? your mother, your father? I don't think so. I don't know who you were talking to but they have a distorted view of "Americans"....


"I was at the drug store yesterday (in Canada) and overheard a conversation about how Americans have become fascists. Yes. They are now talking about how fascist America is, just as casually as they would talk about an impending rain storm. After warning my American friends for over a year now that I see this happening, it is finally all in place and they are the last to know about it. Kind of makes me just want to shake my head."

[MasonJar]

3. Fasc ist

Too many Americans still support this administration's reich wing agenda. They either refuse to consider that their boy has lied or they like his lies. A lot of people I know are now prejudiced against the Middle Easterner; they will not listen to reason.

[camero]

7. Most Americans

Have no idea what fascism is. And therein lies the problem.

[pink_poodle]

8. I think you are Camero. Some don't even know how to spell the word.......

never mind what it means. LOL!

[Dem2dend]

18. Allot of people are still upset

that it was Middle Easterners who took responsibility for 9/11 and have vowed to destroy the U.S. in the name of Allah.
These same Middle Easterners are causing havoc across the globe trying to get their hate message out.

It's working in Canada.

[pink_poodle]

5. Then you better get up here and stand in line at a drug store...........

or somewhere public and start telling folks that here. Obviously, since I am posting here to let you know about this, I am basically worried about this situation. Otherwise, learn to read properly and stop putting messages into what I am saying. You don't need to try to cram words into my mouth so please re-read and try to relax a bit.

[pink_poodle]

6. My post below was aimed at Rook who did not read my message properly.....

Please re-read Rook and try not to start attacking me. Only the messenger - OK???

[rook1]

11. I didn't attack you

I only responded to an obviously generalized post stating that Americans are facists.... I stand by my response. I am not a facist...the government is certainly headed in that direction to be sure.

[pink_poodle]

12. Great! So why would you grill me about being a fascist then? So........

I guess we're okay then??

[atreides1]

15. But If We Do Nothing

If American people do nothing, and allow it to happen in their name,
then it makes them just as guilty as the government.

It will be like when the Germans said that they were not all Nazis,
after WWII. While that was true it didn't stop them from profiting
from what the Nazi Party did.

Americans have to be educated as to what it is that they are allowing
to happen. But to tell you the truth I don't think that most of them
care.

[pink_poodle]

9. Also Rook1, I might add that most governments represent the people........

of their particular countries. So if folks in other countries are seeing your gov't. as fascist, then I would tend to think that they believe this is what the American people want. See what I mean?

Now, I know that a percentage of the American population is not fascist - I have family and friends who are Americans. I visit and post at this forum (been visiting for almost 2 years now). I can tell you that folks here are not fascist in their way of thinking.

I have paid a couple of visits the freeper board and without a doubt - those people DO have a fascist mentality and are seething with hate towards anyone who is not cloned out just like them. They support this hate frothing out of your government.

People know that not all ideas represent all walks of the population from any given country.

[Myra]

10. "Also Rook1, I might add that most governments represent the people.......

But unelected rogue govts don't represent the majority of people.
The majority didn't vote for them.

However, I do think that anyone who supports the Buch regime
after all they've done is either a fascist or stupid.

[rook1]

13. No I don't see what you mean

....I could care less about what Canada thinks of the US...or any other country for that matter.......

Let me ask you a question....What country is the first one to be called on everytime somebody gets in over their head?

Only one chance to answer......

[Karenina]

29. "....I could care less

about what Canada thinks of the US...or any other country for that matter......."

Or do you mean you *couldn't* care less? :eyes:

[Speed8098]

31. That's a fascist statement itself

....I could care less about what Canada thinks of the US...or any other country for that matter.......

Self serving, regardless of outside opinion.

You should care what Canada and other countries think for that matter. We should never ever embrace the isolationist theory. It is wrong.

[ixion]

17. there are plenty of American's who support facism

it's just that it has been thinly veiled as (neo)Patriotism. And ignorance is no excuse. Anyone who isn't outraged by what this malAdmin's been up to over the past two years, qualifies as a facist in my book, whether they know it or not.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

19. Americans are religious fundamentalists statistically. And ignorant.

And propagandizied and indoctrinated to believe that "Amurica is special, the pinnacle of human endeavor, Gawd's Chosen People, A MASTER FUCKING RACE COMPRISED OF JESUS IN A SUPERMAN SUIT AND A COWBOY HAT." Unfortunately, yes, the sweeping generalization that 'Americans are fascist' is accurate whether by actively supporting the BushNazis or standing by while they rape the planet.

[pink_poodle]

21. Good points!!! Tell me why Americans in general.................

think that they are the "Good Guys" and everyone else is the "Bad Guys". Now this is a curious attitude that I believe is unique to American culture.

[Zero Gravitas]

23. many are

The people who swear at dissenters, key their cars because of an anti war sticker, throw rocks through the windows of houses with anti-war signs in the yard, call up right wing talk shows and call dissenters traitors, the people who support Bush* no matter what, they ARE fascists and they represent a large chunck of America.

[pink_poodle]

24. What percentage of the populations would you consider................

to be fascist in the USA? Do you feel in your every day life and workday that things have changed there? It is such a pity to think that the country that represents freedom, is not free at all and yet a part of the population is still under this illusion.

[bluedem]

4. "The believed what they WANTED to believe. It's as simple as that."

Bingo! Because their hated of anything Clinton got in the way of reasonable thought processes, and because their knee-jerk love affair with the GOP got in the way of common sense, they became incapable of actually determining the difference between right and wrong. A few are starting to come around, I think, but there was definitely some kind of sick pathology at work for a long, long time. There still is, in some circles, but the polls are beginning to look more realistic these days.

[robbedvoter]

14. We did not elect these thugs. And our press doesn't publish

these articles (i.e - people cannot read them in a drug store). So, before you blame us for the misdeeds of the junta, remember: the anti-war demonstrations were of an unprecedented size - even with all the lies that are now being debunked.
In fact, this very article contradicts your generalization.
If you want to know whom we voted for, here are his views of what's going on:

> http://moveon.org/gore-speech.html
So, you see, he's the guy who represents Americans, not the puppet regime installed in a coup.

[pink_poodle]

22. Read my post again Robbedvoter. You have "mis-read" me. -nm

:

[robbedvoter]

25. Maybe in part. As for the W supporters - they are by now

much less of them than anyone suspects. Anyone who was fooled is probably awake -, or just about to, and only a handful of fanatics remain. Not enough to call them "Americans".
Brown shirts maybe.

[pink_poodle]

27. A family member of mine who lives in Florida was a real freeper and.......

totally chewed me out over a year ago because I was saying things were going down the toilet with the US gov't. He was livid with me and we didn't talk for about 4 months because I was "anti-American". You know the drill.

Okay, so now he is looking at ways to get out of the USA if things don't get better. He had a huge wake up call. I am so glad he has seen the light. I'm not sure what part of it all that woke him up, but he was one of these guys that thought "they should nuke Iraq". Now he has done a total turn around. So count on one voter who has changed his mind. smile.

[nolabels]

28. Oh the poor little snibbler, why isn't his gung ho but over there with...

the boys in Baghdad, instead he and ilk of hanging out here stateside with bunnypants. This is the kind of stuff the makes me pissed to no end
Here check this; it appears to be something from what seems to be another corner of the box

http://www.hackworth.com/
http://sec-global.com/services/ctp/vsg/news/030426.html
(at the bottom) (snip)
Does anybody out there other than CNN need us to repeat that Robert Lee Hixson was NOT a Navy SEAL and therefore could not now be an "unemployed, ex-Navy SEAL"? Anybody? Associated Press? New York Post? FBI?

Well, of course the FBI needs it repeated. They were the ones who declared Hixson a "SEAL" based, allegedly, on "intel" from local Constables Goober and Fife.

Aside from the fact that Hixson's name was posted to the Hall of Shame within approximately 30-minutes of his arrest (could have been there sooner had anyone thought to ask) and we contacted CNN immediately thereafter -- twice -- is there any legitimate reason CNN has continued to identify Robert Lee Hixson as an "ex-SEAL" in light of the fact that he was not? Indeed, CNN updated the story with the same false information following our contact to their "editorial" department.

"High-ranking intelligence officials have confirmed". . . CNN is staffed by snot-nosed, twenty-something, trust-fund activists who "feel" no one other than CNN could possibly know anything, and certainly not before CNN has ordained it with "Breaking News" graphics and Ave Satani soundtrack. But while CNN was sexing up their Navy-SEAL-gone-bad report with FUBAR'd Fed facts, real reporters were picking up the phones or firing off short and sweet e-mails to VeriSEAL to check the "SEAL" angle before publication. Because if real reporters know one thing, they know it's good not to be last to know.
(snip)

[BiggJawn]

16. Please help spread the Word. We're NOT "All Fascists" down here...

You've been here a while, Poodle, you know...

We got this Junta illegally shoved upon us and most of the Murkan sheep are convinced that if they speak or even THINK badly of Bush, then the Magic Teddy Bears will turn off their power, and people's sons won't get to come home from Iraq.

Scarey, isn't it?

And those of us who speak out are reviled. Never mind that it was "Patriotic" to bash Clinton, This bush guy is Chosen of GAWD, so we have to watch what we think and say. Ari Fliescher told us so.

Please pass the word up there, we're not ALL Fascists....Just our "leaders"....

[pink_poodle]

20. I know it BiggJawn and I've seen lots of your posts.......................

I post here because I know that my American family and friends plus people on this board are NOT fascists. Some folks posting in this thread just do not seem to be able to understand what they are reading and are misconstruing what I am saying.

I SAID: I overheard a conversation.

Okay, you know what I am talking about as you are one person I have seen on this board for a long time who has a grasp on things.

Myself, I see a lot of Americans on line and freeper boards, freeper web sites who DO behave and believe like fascists. This board is not one.

You know what I mean. Okay, so when I hear strangers talking about the USA in public here in Canada again and it is a negative image they are discussing, I will tell them that my family in the USA and on line friends are NOT the fascists they are reading about and seeing on the news.

Cheers!

[fortyfeetunder]

30. Poodle, I understand what you are talking about

What's happeneing it appears that the Bush regime supporters seem to be the most vocal, but then this type of sentiment was visible 22 years ago with the Reagan administration, and has never diminished.

When Reagan was president, there was little dissent from the American public then either. He was regarded as an elderly grandfather statesman when actually he was a has-been actor that was essentially clueless (and today analysts wonder if he was in the early stages of Alzheimers then!) His draconian philosophy paved the way for Bush I to win in 1988. And then it took Murkans 4 years to figure out, well maybe these guys aren't looking in our best interest.

In the last 22 years, we've only had a Democratic President for 8 of them. And even Clinton wasn't elected by a landslide in either election. And even when Clinton wss President. the GOP had been on his case incessantly, looking for anything to indict him. Like Whitewater, and eventually the Monica scandal -- if there had been no blue dress probably they didn't even have a case.

In contrast Reagan, Bush I had all four of their hands dirty with their Iran-Contra fiasco was politically more damaging but those clowns got away with it. And people died from Iran-Contra! Clinton got nailed for getting some, but how many people died from his policies?

It's not just about the Presidency but also the Congressional representation. Americans have pretty much written a blank check to the GOP in both Houses in 2000 nand 2002 and now we have a Repug domionated Congress (with a Repug pResident) with a docile and damn near cowering Democratic representation. And an Attorney General hellbent on turning this place into a police state.

The American government was based on a balance of power between tne President, Congress and Judiciary. And even now the judiciary is threatened because we do have aging Supreme Court Justices....and it is a given the pResident will populate any new vacancy with people who reflect his fascist views. And that won't help in preserving the few freedoms we have left.

Outside of the DU audience, Americans better get a clue that life is not going to get better for any of us until we purge the pResident and the Repug Congress in 2004. Otherwise we are doomed to the existence we had thought appeared only as science fiction.

edited to fix a typo

[schultzee]

26. Bush is acting like the old Soviet KGB.....Bush is the traitor...Zinni

is a hero