Nader: Go to My Rallies, But Vote for Kerry

[JI7]

<June 23, 2004 -- NPR's Robert Siegel travels with independent presidential candidate Ralph Nader in Illinois and Indiana. Nader says he is running for the office as a way to steer the Democratic Party toward an agenda he advocates. The longtime consumer advocate wants would-be supporters to attend his rallies, but he says he wants them to feel free to cast their votes for Sen. John Kerry once they enter the voting booth -- especially in swing states where their vote might help defeat President Bush.>

http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1972353

[physioex]

1. Old boy..

May not be scenile as I once thought. Keep it up Ralphie!!

[silverweb]

2. Now this is a Nader I can support!

I may forgive you yet, Ralph.

:thumbsup:

[mom cat]

14. This is Great! Thanks Ralph. I might eeeeeven vote for you...

I'm in Massachusetts- hardly a swing state. I'll see how close it looks though. I won't let my vote re-elect the crooks.
When you add Nader's vote to Kerry's, bush is toast!

[trogdor]

23. If you campaign for Nader...

...you're still part of the problem, even if you live in a safe blue state. Take that shit somewhere else.

[saracat]

36. Don't Forgive Him

He is a proven liar. He said the same in 2000. He is hurting the Dems in more ways than the Presedential election. I spent two days verifying signatures in Arizona that I could have spent working on local campaigns and working to get dems elected . I will not forgive him the waste of time and money that ought to be directed toward a progressive win that now has to be dedicated to removing him.

[NeoConsSuck]

65. I won't forgive him..

I hope his rallies are filled with Oswald wannabes.

[progressivebydesign]

39. Okay.. Ralph may have gotten the hint.

I DO hope he is sincere about this. He is doing what the DLC and DNC didn't allow Howard Dean to do... Nader is pushing the most liberal agenda to a party that has grown increasingly right. The country has moved to the right, especially after 9/11, but that doesn't mean we have to abandon the liberal positions that differenciated us from the GOP.

[Judi Lynn]

3. Thanks for posting this. Love the photos.

Ralph Nader looks a bit like a merry, mischievous elf in the lower one. Maybe he'll help save the day yet.

Very good news.

[JI7]

6. even more so in this one

[Merlin]

7. JK looks more Linconesque every day.

He's going to make a fine president.

[Judi Lynn]

9. Tremendous photos. Both men are so much more intelligent, refined

than any Republican politician has ever been.

Much more complete, organized personalities.

Just LOVE these great photographs. Thank you.

[Pachamama]

4. Then why doesn't Ralph Not be a Candidate and just do a "Ralph Tour"

...instead?

He's so full of Sh*t these days...I'm so disgusted...I used to love this guy and support him...he did so many great things in the past and his legacy is going to have been giving 4, possibly 8 years to the bushies who singlehandely have reversed almost every environmental legislation there is, start wars, ballooning deficit etc.etc....

When he stops running...that's when he might win some credibility back with me...

[Merlin]

8. Actually, he COULD really help us. He brings out voters who otherwise...

would just stay at home.

[Cheswick2.0]

29. No, he only depresses turn out

His lie that the parties are the same either convinces people to vote for him or stay home. He does nothing for democrats.

[Merlin]

50. BUT if he starts preaching to the disaffected to vote for Kerry not him

that could be a net plus.

[Cheswick2.0]

57. that is not going to happen

Nader is about Nader.

[Citizen Daryl]

13. I agree.

Michael Moore tried to convince Nader of doing the "kingmaker" thing for Gore in 2000 and he refused.

I think he's finally realizing just how reviled he's become among former Nader voters (including myself). I may forgive him, but only time will tell.

[Old and In the Way]

21. Maybe he'll start campaigning against himself, shortly.

I hope he doesn't go negative on his own campaign.

Can you say schizophrenic?

[mac56]

24. I've worked with lots of people with schizophrenia over the years.

It sullies the term, and diminishes those who have it, to apply it to Nader. I'm just sayin'.

[wryter2000]

37. Besides, it's not acurate

What they mean is split personality -- two personalities within one person. Not schizophrenia.

[Old and In the Way]

49. Ahhhhhh, no.

See definition 2-

Main Entry: schizo·phre·nia
Pronunciation: "skit-s&-'frE-nE-&
Function: noun
Etymology: New Latin
1 : a psychotic disorder characterized by loss of contact with the environment, by noticeable deterioration in the level of functioning in everyday life, and by disintegration of personality expressed as disorder of feeling, thought (as in hallucinations and delusions), and conduct -- called also dementia praecox
2 : contradictory or antagonistic qualities or attitudes <both parties... have exhibited schizophrenia over the desired outcome -- Elizabeth Drew>

I think delusions of being President would possibly make Nader eligible to qualify for (1)

[Cheswick2.0]

28. Yup

When he stops running I will trust what he says.
This is how he makes his money now, by running for president.

[Piperay]

5. Hopefully

he really means it and will be very vocal about letting his supporters in swing states know to vote for Kerry. :thumbsup:

[jeff5]

11. This is Stupid

If he wants to support Kerry he should just drop out and quit collecting money and campaigning. Once his Presidential campaign is closed down Citizen Nader can do as he pleases, but as long as he is spending (and taking) money it's entirely possible his support amounts to a campaign contribution.

[Jackpine Radical]

40. But most of what he's taking

is Repug money.

And as far as I can tell, he's stealing votes about equally from Bush & Kerry at this point.

My bet is that in fact, most of those who would choose Nadir over Bush will stay with Nadir (because they could never bring themselves to vote for that awful, flip-flopping, Fonda-loving Kerry), while most of those toying with Nadir instead of Kerry will suddenly wake up in the voting booth & pull it for Kerry.

[Cheswick2.0]

58. As far as you can tell?

He is not taking votes equally from both Bush and Kerry. He is taking 1 point from Bush and 5 from Kerry. Just look at the polls posted all over DU.

[Jackpine Radical]

59. In the polls I've seen, Bush & Kerry each dropped

by a couple of points when Nadir was included in the contest.

[Cheswick2.0]

30. fool you once shame on you.................

This is not a hair different than what he said in 2000.

[struggle4progress]

10. Now can we please concentrate on bashing King George? eom

[checks-n-balances]

68. I'm looking to Ralph to do as much Bushbashing as he does dembashing

Tell it to Ralph!

[LionInWinter]

12. Bullsh*t!!!

He makes this statement on the same day that he threatens the Democratic Party? He's a liar who can't be trusted as far as you can throw him.

<Nader called the suit "potential harassment" and said if Democrats persist, he will revise his campaign strategy. "We will concentrate only on the close states."

The action in Arizona came a day after Nader stormed out of a Capitol Hill meeting in which members of the Congressional Black Caucus told him to abandon his bid for the White House. The chairman of the group, Rep. Elijah E. Cummings (D-Md.), refused to apologize for a meeting that Nader publicly described yesterday as abusive>

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A626-2004Jun23.html

[lovedems]

15. You are exactly right.

He is an egomaniac and I heard someone from the congressional black caucus say, "this is all about Ralph so he wouldn't listen to us". Podesta was on Hardball and said, "Ralph will stay in because there isn't any talking to him".

Now he is going to get even with the dems and make this entire country suffer through 4 more years of the evil empire.

Screw him. Now I want him to take a hike now more then ever.

[cmutt]

16. true politician

What a true politican (in the Republican tradition)! Say one thing, do another. Here: watch my left hand do tricks while my right hand picks your pocket. IMO, Nader has learned quite a lot from GWB in the last 3 1/2 years..

[AP]

17. He's the only pol today doing really critical eval of role of corp in US

and that's important.

He's got his finger on the defining problem in America.

I hope the left figures out a way to listen to that criticism and still vote for Kerry.

Not being on the ballot anywhere is going to help arrive at that end.

[Darranar]

35. Exactly...

if he wants to evaluate the role of US corporations though (and most of his evaluations on the subject have been excellent) he shouldn't do it as a candidate, or at least not as a serious one.

[Kolesar]

41. Hey, not so fast, Dennis is still carrying the message, and he is running!

technically.

[David__77]

18. Good step in the right direction.

When aiming at the non-Democratic progressive community, we must focus on a joint goal of removing Bush, not rehashing old fights. I wish Nader were not on the ballot in many states and openly called for a vote for Kerry in most states, but I still think that the latter is possible.

[Armstead]

19. Ralph is full of bull

He doesn't get it.

Ralph is doing much more harm than good to the legitimate message he has.

I agree with most of his criticisms and proposed solutions to the problems we face.

But running for president at this point totally deflects from that, and will turn off more people to the progressive message.

If he were sincere, he would aggressively campaign FOR KERRY as thge only alternative to Bush, while also sticking with his larger message of the need for change.

IMO he would also do a lot more both to influence the Democratic Party and increase the credibility of Greens.

[DinahMoeHum]

20. I'll believe it only when he actually tells people to vote for Kerry.

and I need a copy of a transcript of one of his speeches for that.


:kick:

[John_H]

22. More slimeball egomania from FidelityFund Ralph.

Ralph says people should "feel free" to vote for Kerry. Thanks for the permission Sir Ralph, Buster of Unions. My guess is most people who attend Nader Rallies and have an IQ higher than a Chimp will do just that.

Meanwhile Nader will take all that GOP money and all those Republican ballot signatures.

Mark my words: Nader will stop saying that when he can't debate, even if he doesn't get on enough ballots to get 270 electoral votes.

I know there are folks around here just too dense, self absorbed, or both to understand that Nader wants to be a deciding factor in this election in order to advance his own personal power; the rest of us should keep telling people about the real Ralph Nader no matter how he tries to wriggle out of the truth.

[idontwantaname]

26. what about the "REAL" john kerry?... BOTOX!

I know there are folks around here just too dense, self absorbed, or both to understand that JOHN KERRY wants to be a deciding factor in this election in order to advance his own personal power; the rest of us should keep telling people about the real JOHN KERRY no matter how he tries to wriggle out of the truth.

if the shoe fits... well.. you know the expression.

[Cheswick2.0]

32. don't be ridiculous

I am not fan of John Kerry and you can search my posts to prove that. However the difference is Kerry can get rid of bush, Nader can only help elect bush.

Nader is as full of shit as he was in 2000.

[depakid]

38. seems to me that

when you pepper your posts with trite condescension, it makes your words hardly worth marking-

If you need to vent, that's fine, but understand that you don't reach anyone that way.

[wjsander]

25. Was he just speaking to the people of Arizona?

Because as far as I know, that's the only state who is going to have him on the ballot.

[Cheswick2.0]

33. he will be on the state ballot of any state where the reform party

qualifies. I he gets the Green nomination he will also be on any state where they qualify. He is going to be on enough state ballots to spoil the election again.

[AlGore-08.com]

27. Nader's general Democratic bashing could "help" keep the Congress GOP

Which would make it impossible for Kerry to get much done. Do you really think a Congress lead by Tom Delay and Bill Frist is going to suddenly abandon the GOP's agenda? A GOP Congress is not going to suddenly start supporting civil rights, alternative energy, economic justice, environmentalism, the seperation of church and state, or any other "lib'rul" cause. All Kerry's appointments would have to be approved by the GOP Senate - - which means all Kerry's judicial nominees will have to be conservative to wing nut or they won't be appointed to the bench. Ditto for ambassadors and any other position that the Senate gets to approve. And the GOP Congress might try to impeach Kerry to get control of the Executive Branch again. It's not like they haven't tried it before.

And if the election is close enough for a recount in any state, they will almost certainly justify their opposition to Kerry by shouting "Kerry stole the election!". They're already laying the groundwork with the anti-ACT smears: claiming felons are registering Kerry voters and that sex offenders are canvassing for Kerry will make the eventual claim that Kerry stole the election seem "reasonable" and "in character" to most folks.

If more folks are persuaded that all Democrats are corporate whores (but hey, vote for John Kerry), the GOP's majority in both Houses could increase. They'd be in a better position to thwart everything that Kerry tried to do - - if their majority was large enough, Kerry's vetos would be overturned and his role in changing things would be limited to executive orders. Until the GOP Congress got tired of that, and passed legislation limiting the executive's powers.

Of course, a GOP Congress would be an even bigger disaster if Smirk wins - - another four years minimum of GOP control of all branches of Government.

For those who have forgotten, Nader used this same strategy in 2000. When he was collecting signatures for his 2000 campaign, many people were reluctant to sign, because they were afraid Nader could play a spoiler in the election and hand the White House to Smirk. Nader claimed that he was only running to help the Greens build their party, the last thing he wanted to do was hurt Gore's chances. He promised he would only actively campaign in states that were already solidly Gore or Smirk. Once he was on the ballot however, he only campaigned in states where he could swing the state from Gore to Smirk - - and loudly proclaimed he was out to defeat Gore. (Even his mantra that "there isn't a dimes worth of difference between Gush and Bore" only hurt Gore and the Dems: it's an argument that didn't pass the laugh test with the GOP base, who "knew" that Republicans were descent Christian folks and Democrats were lying athetistic fornicators.)

C'mon folks: fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

[Dr Fate]

45. That is why so many Republicans sign his petitions & give him $$$$

He is certainly not "fooling" any Republicans.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

56. actually nader voters made the difference in 200

and gave the democrats the senate seat in washington state, setting the stage for the jeffords switch and a democratic majority (til daschle lost that for us when he became The Great Capitulator post 9-11)

[AlGore-08.com]

60. No offense to Maria Cantwell but I'd trade her victory in a heartbeat

If it meant that Al Gore had been allowed to serve as the 43rd President of the United States. Ditto for Jeffords switching to Independent.

I can't even begin to list all the things that Gore would have done differently than Smirk. The only thing that Gore has publicly agreed with Smirk about in the past four years was attacking Afghanistan - - and even then Gore disagreed with almost every aspect of Team Smirk's "plan" and execution. And 9/11 might not have happened on Gore's watch, since Gore actually understood the threat posed by Osama bin Ladin and other terrorist organizations. Gore never would have ignored all the intellegence about a pending attack on U.S. soil that was coming in during 2001.

[chimpy the poopthrower]

31. Yeah. So that when he gets hardly any votes at all...

...he can act like it's because he wanted it that way. See? I didn't fail miserably! I told my supporters to vote for the other guy! On the other hand, if he does well and ends up hurting Kerry in the process... You can't blame me for taking votes away from Kerry! I told my supporters to vote for him!

You can't live in this limbo, Nader. Choose a position and stick with it. You've said there are no major differences between the parties, so why would you care whether Kerry beats Bush? If you're finally acknowledging that there are real differences, drop out and choose a side.

This is in the same vein as him urging Kerry to choose Edwards.

[yellowcanine]

34. Nader is so pre Florida 2000. Does he think Dems will make that mistake

again? Well, maybe they will. Damn.

[alfredo]

42. That is what I suspected from the start.

It is not out of line with what he has stated in the past.

[Oreegone]

43. Why doesn't he really do something for the Democrats?

Like drop out of the race and support Kerry. He would stop fighting to get his name on the ballot. What is this crap about they CAN vote for Kerry if they WANT to? WHAT THE DUCK CHUCK? he is senile....he just can't give it up. His ego is the size of the sun. He looks like somebody cast in a movie as a psychopath.

[Dr Fate]

44. Well, count me in for the second part, Ralph...

I'll be a the Kerry rally if you need to get in touch...

[Ganja Ninja]

46. I'm gonna eat a nice big double bean burrito, go to a Bush rally and

try to get as close to the stage as I can.

[PurityOfEssence]

47. Addle-headed folly if there ever was any

Reductionist thinking says that if the outcome is close, anything that potentially saps energy from the preferred side is just plain nuts.

[ElementaryPenguin]

48. I'd hoped he'd start doing this!!

As pissed as I've been at him - I do enjoy his no-holds-barred Bush Bashing!!

[demoman123]

51. I hope he got something for this.

For example, a commitment by Kerry to get out of Iraq.

[DaveSZ]

52. I might vote for Nader too

I live in Texas and Kerry is polling 29% here.

I hope Kerry gives him a spot in his cabinet. That would be great.

[mzmolly]

53. Sounds like he's trying to compete with David Cobb.

:shrug:

I dont trust R Nader, sorry. But, I'm glad to hear synchronizing his rhetoric.

[hellbound-liberal]

54. Here's a link to the "Greens for Kerry" web site which has this info

http://changein04.com/

It looks like many people are starting to realize that voting for Ralph could be a very bad idea.

[AlGore-08.com]

62. F.Y.I. there was a "Greens For Gore" in 2000

Just 'cause there's a group of individual Greens supporting Kerry, doesn't mean that Nader is sincere - - or that his statement is the reason that some individual Greens are supporting Kerry.

There's also a "Democrats for Bush". That doesn't mean that every Democrat is gonna vote for Smirk - - or that Kerry is going to work to help elect Smirk.

[hellbound-liberal]

64. Did you read my post? Or check the link that I provided?

I said that many people are beginning to think that voting for Ralph is a bad idea. I didn't say that he had convinced them to support Kerry. Nor did I mean to imply that EVERY Green was going to vote for Kerry. I was merely pointing out that there are a number of people who had previously supported Nader who have realized that the stakes are too high this time.

[AlGore-08.com]

67. Yeah, and I said the same thing happened in 2000

I was making a general comment and phrased it in such a clumsy way that it looked like I was commenting to you alone. I apologize, that was not my intention. It was also not my intention to trash the individuals in Greens For Kerry.

The reason I made the comment is that there seems to be a growing number of folks on the board who either don't know the details of what happened in 2000, or they have forgotten them. I suspect that most of it is because the folks making the posts were not of voting age in 2000. At least I hope so.

Continuing my general comment: IMNSHO, there's also a lot of naivete on the board lately about election year positioning. Anything any pol says during an election year - - especially in the summer and fall - - should be taken with a grain of salt, and compared to their actual record. Right now, Smirk is doing a lot of tap dancing to try and appear "moderate" again, and most of the folks on this board recognize it when they see it.

Nader is politician as well, and he's also positioning himself for this election. He has a big PR problem in that a large part of his former base - - progressives in and out of the Democratic party - - are furious at his role in the 2000 election. He has alienated a significant number of Green Party members, who don't appreciate being blamed for Smirk's pResidency. But Nader needs the ballot access he would get with an endorsement by the Greens. And he's only got until Saturday to win that endorsement.

So... what does Nader do to gain support from Greens and Progressive Dems?

First, he picks Peter Camejo as his running mate. Nader did the Green Party a big favor. There is just no way that Camejo or Cobb could get the kind of national publicity that Nader has just generated by picking Camejo.

Bigger challenge: Nader has to win support from Progressive Dems. How? The same way he did in 2000 - - he says he won't campaign against the Dem nominee, and claims that his campaign is just about keeping the Dem party from ignoring it's liberal base - - something that both potential Green and Dem supporters would find as a worthy goal.

It's textbook pre-election positioning.

[checks-n-balances]

69. IMO Ralph gets a charge from manipulating others...read on...

This is how Nader was quoted on AAR news about an hour ago (same story), describing his strategy regarding Kerry:

"Why not give the democrats a scare before voting for him?"

I supposed that would give him some kind of perverse thrill to find out how many people would actually do what he says. He wants SOMEBODY to do what he says, seeing that so many who got his vote in '00 refuse to drink that Naderade again.

Why would people enjoy manipulating the electorate while being manipulated themselves?

His words and tactics get more sick and self-serving every day

[Chomskyite]

55. Then he needs to stay off the damn ballot in the swing states!

Idiot.

[silverpatronus]

61. geez...nader just can't win with some of you. eom

[AlGore-08.com]

63. Yes, oddly enough when a person says the exact same things

That were proven to be a complete tissue of lies the first time they said it, I have a strange tendency to suspect that person is lying again.

I'm funny that way.

[Neshanic]

66. Somebody knows some secrets about Ralph. Cashing in now.