No Proof Bush Completed Military Service

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.wbex.com/script/headline_newsmanager.php?id=327365&pagecontent=nationalnews&feed_id=59

Payroll records that could help prove President Bush completed all his military service in the Texas Air National Guard have been accidently destroyed.

The Pentagon says the payroll records of numerous service members, including former First Lt. George W. Bush, were ruined in 1996 and 1997 by the Defense Finance and Accounting Service while trying to salvage deteriorating microfilm, the New York Times reported Friday.

No paper copies could be found, it added in notices dated June 25.

A Denver spokesman for the service said the destruction occurred as the office was trying to unspool 2,000-foot rolls of fragile microfilm. That spokesman also said he did not know how many records were lost or why the loss had not been announced before.

more

[lovedems]

1. 1996 and 1997.

Isn't that about the time questions starting being raised about his military service? When did he start his run for Governor?

[louis-t]

19. I believe the questions came up before

1996 'goobernatorial' election.

[quaoar]

2. Gosh

What a terrible coincidence that was. I'm sure if all those records had not been accidentally destroyed they would have proven that Bush was valiantly defending Texas and Alabama from a sneak VietCong air attack.

[jpak]

3. Accidentally destroyed???

(accidentally on purpose....)

[still_one]

4. isn't it illegal to destroy government property?

[Beetwasher]

5. If Gov't Records Are "Accidentally" Destroyed Then A Report On It

must (or should) exist somewhere.

I can't believe that if something like this happens, especially to military records, that those responsible weren't OBLIGATED to fill out some sort of official report about it.

[tom_paine]

7. Anyone who digs on this will de DESTROYED by the Imperial Family.

It's just a matter of HOW.

[ihaveaquestion]

6. 3 words - Social Security Records

[atreides1]

10. You're Right

It will show what he made, but I don't think it will specifically list his military pay.

[ihaveaquestion]

12. They know where you earned what. Every employer has a code.

[atreides1]

20. But

Wouldn't specific information like that be covered under the Privacy Act?

[displacedtexan]

8. Today's Lesson: The Advantages Of Microfilm

Longest lasting medium available with a 100+ year life expectancy.

A microfilm image has been for decades, and still is, a certified legal copy of a document, once the original is gone (the standard practice in micrographics is to destroy the documents once they have been microfilmed).

To this day, it is virtually impossible, or at least cost prohibitive, to alter a microfilm image in a way that is undetectable.

I covered this extensively in my blog this morning:
(Scroll Down)
http://ascrivenerslament.blogspot.com/

[Beetwasher]

9. There Are So Many Holes In This Story It's Inexcusable For The Press

to be just reporting what they are told by the admin. Why don't they interview microfilm experts, etc. for their take on the story? (rhetorical)

[quaoar]

13. How can microfilm be destroyed

Moisture, mold, poor storage techniques?

[Demonaut]

15. not only that even if it was damaged unspooling only fire

or caustic chemicals would destroy the film, almost all if not all could be savalged and be copied on a one to one transfer to new film similar to a contact sheet. this is bullshit, as a former military photographer I've handled most films and understand the preservation and salvage process.

[Justice]

11. What A Great Headline

[NNN0LHI]

24. Took me a while to find it. But I did n/t

[Whoa_Nelly]

14. Now, wait a gosh-darn minute!

Weren't there previous news reports that Bush's payroll records PROVED he had been active in the service??? I remember reading those articles when the hoopla began when questioning FratBoy's military records.
Am heading to google to check it out...meanwhile, anyone have those article links?

on edit:
Some links:
http://www.awolbush.com/kerry-vs-bush.asp

AND

http://www.factcheck.org/MiscReports.aspx?docID=142
<snip>
And in fact, Bush was at Dannelly Air National Guard base in Montgomery as late as Jan. 6, 1973, according to a document released by the White House Feb. 11. The document is a record of a dental examination of Bush on that date. The payroll records released two days earlier show Bush received pay and credit for service for Jan. 6 and for five other days closely clustered between Jan. 4 and Jan. 10.

AND

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/2/10/134542.shtml

<snip>
WASHINGTON – The White House, facing election-year questions about President Bush's military service, released pay records and other information Tuesday that it said supports Bush's assertion that he fulfilled his duty as a member of the Air National Guard during the Vietnam War.
The material included annual retirement point summaries and pay records to show that Bush served.

[luaneryder]

16. Why were they unspooling it

unless they were looking for something specific? Like *'s record.

[colonel odis]

17. so bush can't prove he completed his national guard service

instead, he'd like us to take his word for it.

roflmao!

[Whoa_Nelly]

18. Payroll records WERE used to prove service

A :kick:
See my above post for articles that state the WH used Bush's payroll records to prove military service. AHA!

More WH lies re: payroll records "destroyed" in the 90s.

[louis-t]

21. Hey, didn't shrub say the records were destroyed in a fire?

Like, a year ago? Oh, I see, the tech opened the 'fragile' microfilm, accidentally breaking off large sections and then dropped it accidentally into the shredder that just happened to be on at the time. After removing the mess from the shredder, he panicked and started running with the 2,000 feet of shredded microfilm, accidentally knocking over a Bunsen Burner that happened to be on at the time, setting fire to the pile of newspapers that his boss had been bugging him to take out to the trash. "I was just havin' a really bad day" the tech later reported.

[Raster]

22. another amazing $hrubco co-inky-dink....

[bobthedrummer]

23. Here is how The Guardian reported this latest BFEE outrage.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-4293218,00.html

[ignatius]

25. Man, Bush must be the luckiest guy

on the face of the earth. Any problems concerning him just seem to disappear like magic. There is no situation too slimy or sorry that his money, connections, and intimidation tactics can't solve.

[nolabels]

26. Obtaining Your DD214

DD214
Proof of Service

The DD 214 is the most common type of proof of service. It has been issued to veterans discharged from all branches of service since January 1, 1950.

There are three critical information areas on the DD 214 . . .
The Veteran's Identification
The Veteran's Information
And the Character of Service

Identification Information on the DD 214 is found in
Item 1: Veteran's name when in the Service . . .
Item 3: Social Security Number . . . and
Item 5: Date of Birth

The Service Information provided in Item 2 indicates the component or Branch of Service a Veteran served in.

Service Information in Item 12 indicates the entry date, separation date and net active service of the Veteran. This information is used in the Eligibility Process.

The Character of Service is given in Item 24. The Characters of Service are:
Dishonorable
Bad Conduct
General (Gen)
Other than Honorable (OTH)
Under Honorable Conditions (UHC)

DD214s issued after October 1, 1979 include this information on the Member 4 copy, which is required for the Eligibility process.

Older DD214s contain most of the same information. The Veteran's name, service number (separate service numbers were assigned prior to the use of social security numbers), and date of birth are found in Items 1, 2 and 6.

A major difference with older DD214s is that the active service period: Item 24, may not include any lost time. Lost Time is included in Item 32: Remarks and is accounted for separately when calculating the time in service.

The DD214 also identifies the component or branch a veteran served in. This can either be a regular component of the military such as Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines or Coast Guard or a reserve component such as Air National Guard, Army National Guard, Army Reserve, Navy Reserve, Air Force Reserve, Marine Reserve or Coast Guard.

DD215

The DD 215 is issued to correct any wrong information on a DD214. When a veteran submits VA Form 26-1880, both the DD214 and the DD215 must be included.

Obtaining Your DD214

To obtain a copy of your DD 214, you will need to submit Standard Dorm 180: Request Pertaining to Military Records to the:

National Personnel Records Center
Military Personnel Records
9700 Page Avenue
St. Louis, MO 63132-5100

There are several ways to obtain Standard Form (SF) 180.

You may download the form at http://www.nara.gov/regional/mprsf180.html

You may also call the Fax-on-Demand System at (301) 713 - 6905. This system makes brochures, informational sheets and other documents available to the public who have access to fax machines. The SF 180 is available as document number 2255.

Or you may call the National Records Personnel Center telephone information lines:
(snip)
http://www.valaro.com/lgy/coe/id49.htm

[Moderator]

27. Duplicate

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=674181&mesg_id=674181