Slave trade is back in US, senators told

[Blackaxe]

Despite stricter enforcement and greater protection for victims, human traffickers continue to smuggle in thousands of people from poor countries to work as slaves in brothels, homes, factories and farms in the United States.

"Americans may be particularly alarmed to learn that at least 15,000 human beings are trafficked into lives of slavery in the United States each year," Senator John Cornyn, told a Senate judiciary subcommittee hearing on Wednesday. Some estimates put the figure as high as 50,000 a year, he said.

Women, men and children are brought in from places as far apart as Uzbekistan and Mexico, lured with false promises of glamour, education or, in some cases, simply the prospect of a steady job.

Beatings, isolation from society, threats of deportation, sexual humiliation, rape or threats of retaliation against family in their home countries are some of the tactics used to discourage attempts to escape.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/07/09/1089000357084.html?oneclick=true

[2Design]

1. sounds like Bush tatics on anyone who opposes his policies....

<snip>
Beatings, isolation from society, threats of deportation, sexual humiliation, rape or threats of retaliation against family in their home countries are some of the tactics used to discourage attempts to escape.
<wnip>

[Big_AJ]

28. Just can't keep your partisanship out of it.

More hate of Bush than concern for abused men, women &
children.

AJ

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[psychopomp]

2. Time to rethink legalization of the sex industry

Just like drug prohibition, when you have an extremely profitable market such as the sex trade criminalization means that criminals will be the ones doing business.

The most highly organized and most ruthless will inevitably become major players. The sad fact is that human trafficking is up worldwide and the US is no exception.

[Concordance]

6. "legalization of the sex industry" ?!

Most definitely not a good idea. Many young and confused women around the world, mostly teenagers really, that see no shiny prospects in their lives, and see nothing good in their future would find and easy route out of it all by...what? Selling their ass for 5$ on the corner?! Legalization of the sex industry is all fine and everything unless you have a daughter.

[Dookus]

7. Outlawing it

hasn't done much to quell the business.

What's wrong with the Netherlands approach? The women are protected, safe, regularly tested for STD's and make a pretty good living.

Criminalizing prostitution doesn't do a damned thing to end it.

[Concordance]

9. Bachelor eh?

Three words, social community programs. Of course with 450 billion defense budget to feed, such social programs are not really... well feasible.

[Dookus]

12. My marital status is irrelevant to the discussion

but I'm in a monogamous relationship.

Why not address the points I made? Has outlawing prostitution ended prostitution?

[Concordance]

13. outlawing prostitution means nothing without....

Without proper enforcement and prevention. Its like saying "let's outlaw murder" and then letting murder go on on daily basis. Simply putting a law on paper and then periodically picking up prostitutes off corners and fining them accomplishes little or nothing. Interesting that someone mentioned drugs. Wasn't there a recent discussion about London having a serious problem with prostitution, and a survey found that something like 70%-80% of prostitutes were drug users, and into prostitution for drug money. Bachelor or not, you don't need to explain yourself.. I struck a nerve, eh? Good! These topics deserve all our attention.

Like I said social community programs would definitively be a start, sadly thanks to the gigantic defense budget and pacified middle class American public that simply doesn't care. Well, until it's their pure and suburbanly white daughter getting it on with a 300 Pound black man for $10 per hour.

[Dookus]

14. You struck a nerve?

Hardly - don't flatter yourself. The truth is, my marital status is totally irrelevant to this discussion, and you've made no attempt to even explain why you think it would be.

As for social community programs, I'm not sure what you mean exactly, but I don't think they can ever stop prostitution. I'm all for doing what we can to end drug addiction, but even then, it won't end prostitution.

In Amsterdam, the prostitutes are NOT drug addicts. They are NOT desperate. They're hard-working young women who are treated well and make a decent living. The same for legalized brothels in Nevada.

The fact is, prostitution has always existed, and always will exist. Why not make it safer for the people involved and get rid of the pimps?

[Concordance]

15. Proper enforcement and prevention....

Proper enforcement and prevention is the key. A young 16 year old girl doesn't just decide, "well, I just need some spending cash, maybe I should sell my ass for a while". As for Amsterdam, a drug capital of the world that happens to be prostitution capital at same time, well no there can't be any connection. Can it? Oh, no way, no connection whatsoever.. right? Nevada? There was a recent HBO special about brothels there, most women there talked openly about drugs, alcohol, and most of them did not look mentally stable either. I think the problem is that many people confuse porno industry with prostitution industry. While both are quite into exploitation of women, and women in both arenas are into "sex for money", there is a world of difference.

You say "prostitution has always existed", well so has murder, do we let it go on?

Proper enforcement and prevention is the key.

Shall I repeat it some more?

[muriel_volestrangler]

16. Is Amsterdam really a drug capital of the world?

% of Amsterdam 16-19 year olds who used cannabis in the last month (2001): 14.3

"Heroin use has a very low prevalence among the general population in Amsterdam (12 years and over); 0.1 percent of the Amsterdam population used heroin in the month prior to the interview, and this percentage remained stable between 1987 and 2001. Recent heroin use can be found mainly in the older age categories, among those aged 16-19 and 20-24, last month use is 0.0 percent."

Compare with a roughly equivalent size, long established, US city, like Boston:

% of Boston high school students who used marijuana in the last 30 days (1999): 20.5
% of Boston high school students who have ever tried heroin (1999): 1.4

Sources: http://www.cedro-uva.org/lib/abraham.licit.press.en.html
http://www.bphc.org/reports/pdfs/report_101.pdf

I'd say Amsterdam is less of a drug capital than Boston. And Boston seems to have less drug usage than the rest of its state, too.

[Dookus]

22. no need to repeat it some more...

it's already become tiresome.

If a person has a commodity s/he wishes to sell, s/he should be allowed to provided no one is harmed in the process.

Note that this tenet doesn't include forced prostitution, slavery, or anything of the sort. If you honestly believe more law enforcement can end prostitution, I admire your optimism.

There are prostitutes in the most repressive places on earth. Your attitude is the same one that believes if you don't tell teens about sex, they won't have it. It's an outdated view that simply has no basis in reality.

[Concordance]

27. Huh?

You say, "Your attitude is the same one that believes if you don't tell teens about sex, they won't have it."

What?! I never said anything that resembles that. Telling teens about sex is not even close to the topic of young women selling their ass for $10 per hour. What in the world are you talking about.

Commodity? What if it was your daughter selling her "commodity" for $5 on the corner?

Proper enforcement and prevention is THE key.

[Dookus]

40. You say

proper enforcement and prevention is THE key.

Except that that's never worked. Ever. No where. At no time.

And again, this has nothing to do with whether or not I have a daughter. I wouldn't want a daughter to become a coal miner, either, but I don't think outlawing coalmining is the answer.

[lazarus]

25. straw man

No, a 16 year old shouldn't be allowed to be a prostitute.

But are you really that anti-choice? I thought women should be allowed to what they want with their bodies.

[Concordance]

26. What?

I am pro choice. Well, when it comes to abortion at least. But, what the heck does that have to do with a 16 year old girl selling her ass for $5 on the corner?

Let's repeat. Prostitution bad! Not good! It lead to many, MANY, bad things!

Got it, simple nuff?

Good god. Heh!

Don't have a daughter eh?

Its really sad and interesting that people with no families or people without daughters that always bring up that "prostitution is not so bad", or "its natural" type of rhetoric.

[lazarus]

30. Once more

Your 16 year old girl example is a straw man.

Why can't 11 year olds drink alcohol and do drugs? Because they're below the age we've decided is an adult. In many states, 16 isn't even legal for consensual sex.

So stop bringing it up as if all prostitutes are 16.

And stop making assumptions. You've incorrectly claimed one poster was single, and now you're incorrectly claiming I have no family. I'm married (my wife agrees with me, btw) and have a 12 year old daughter.

Finally, YOU'RE ANTI-CHOICE. The whole point of the pro-choice movement is to let women do what they want with their bodies, right? "Keep your laws off my ovaries," I've seen on the signs.

But it's okay to remove a woman's right to have sex, if she also gets paid for it? That's rather Puritan.

Let's repeat: Illegal prostitution bad! Allows very bad people to control things, and brutalise women.

Having drugs illegal does the same thing. Do you realise the societal cost of making these two victimless crimes illegal?

But no, let's ensure that women are trapped in a horrid slavery, with no protection, no health care, and no future. By keeping it illegal and removing choice from the equation.

Real liberal.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Chicago Democrat]

42. Speaking as a Former Brothel Resident

I would say that prostitution is hard work! The work itself is what you make it. Its dangerous but mostly protected in big cities. The most important thing is to be your own boss and control the situation. As a man I think its somewhat safer. It is a job for a young person that should be abandoned after it no longer is a positive experience.

The people who succeed in it stay away from drugs and develope a true loving attitude towards everyone. To be able to actually love someone at a drop of a hat is to be like Buddha or the Dalai Lama. That is very difficult to do with sincerity. but to accomplish that and bring love to the loveless is actually the most noble thing in the world.

Recall Mary Magdalene? Who here is without sin and wants to cast the first stone??

[Dookus]

44. sorry..

the only quick and simple solution being offered here is yours: outlaw it! Enforce it!

That's never worked anywhere, at any time.

Comparing consensual prostitution to child molestation is, frankly, bordering on insane.

[Concordance]

46. I think I mentioned...

I think I mentioned the word prevention at least half a dozen times in this thread. What about social and community prevention aid programs? Just thing what a singe billion dollars would do. I mean 450 billion for defense but almost nothing is set aside for such programs. Yeah, it is outlawed on paper, but it is not being enforced properly, or at all in some places. Why? Is it cultural? Probably. Lax morals? Quite probably as well. Bad parenting? Yeah. I mean, look at some of the posts here. Some people apparently wouldn't mind if they daughters turned to drugs and prostitution. If fact someone pointed out they don't care what their daughter does. Outlawing is easy, enforcing is difficult and will be complex. Because, periodically picking up prostitutes off corners and fining them is accomplishing nothing. The problems is deeply rooted in the psyche and moral fiber of America. As this thread and many of its posters unknowingly point out.

[Dookus]

47. You keep skipping past the simple point:

outlawing prostitution does little or nothing to eliminate prostitution.

It's not an American issue, by any means. Singapore, one of the most "policed" states in the world, has prostitutes. I saw 'em.

I understand that you really really really really REALLY don't like prostitution. But that doesn't mean you get to decide for every other person in the world what they do with their bodies. That's why somebody upthread related it to the abortion issue - your personal outrage doesn't give you decision-making power over everybody else.

[psychopomp]

8. Lawful regulation

is a much better alternative to what we have now, or is there something about the article that you did not understand?

As I was saying, prohibition does not stem demand.

[Concordance]

10. I understand the article...

Perfectly. Demand? Well in US of A its really more of a "cultural" thing than a "man thing". In fact your and several other posts support my point quite wonderfully.

[psychopomp]

11. I am missing your point

Demand? Well in US of A its really more of a "cultural" thing than a "man thing".

What do you mean by that?

[DavidMS]

31. I also feel that regulated legalized prostution is a good thing

Although I would never use one's services.

Its a way to cut down on STD transmition, protect women, protect their customers, attack organized crime and reduce the number of criminal acts in society.

There could be multiple classes of licences and they could be aranged so that the women involved are at least 21 and recieve the majority of the income (as opposed to a pimp or madam).

On an ideological level, its the societial reconizition that women posess their own bodies, as opposed to their husbands, families and churches.

One final advantage is that it can be kept away from young children and out of sight of the general public by prohibiting loud signage.

I realy can't see a downside.

[amber dog democrat]

18. Not sure I agree with that

I think making prostitution a regulated and respected business would be a welcome alternative to what is currently happening now in the US.

As far as my daughter goes, once she is an adult and making informed choices I am not going to get overly invloved in what she wants to do.

Having a regulated, policed and managed sex industry, as there is in Holland appeals to me on several levels and I assure you sex on the corner for $5.00 does not weigh into it. It would probably cut down on STD transmissions as well.

I feel the same way about our stance on outliawing drugs too.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[havocmom]

23. OK, I DO have a daughter

and both of us think prostitution should be legalized and done like it is in the Netherlands!

To keep it illegal has not prevented it but is has made lots of MEN very wealthy by controlling women!

Legalize and let the state set the standards/conditions/licensing. It's the pimps who wanna keep their highly profitable stables who are really the abusers.

Prostitution used to be sacred. It could be again. It addresses a human need and if society addresses it well, it can be constructive rather than the destructive trap it is now.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[havocmom]

43. Oh, she exists all right and is a lot tougher than her ol mom. You don't

wanna go there.

Prostitution in Netherlands is not a huge corporate racket. What is your problem with letting women (and men for that matter) be self employed and independent in their chosen occupation? Do you have something against free enterprise? Women do not need to be yoked by pimps, politicians or corporations. Cut out the middle-man!

There are laws against prostitution in most states. It doesn't work. It creates a whole sordid underworld where the prostitutes are at the bottom of the chain though they do all the work. How about letting them be legal, licensed (requiring health checks), protected, and self employed? You have a problem with people finding ways to make enough money to live well and pay for school so they can better themselves?

If it were legal and licensed, those involved would enjoy a safer environment and protection form violence. Do you have a problem with protecting people from violence?

If it were legal, people could make the choice themselves. No one would be conning vulnerable runaways, sticking needles in the arms of young girls (and boys), making junkies out of them so as to force them into becoming slave-sex workers so they can get the next fix. Or, is that how you prefer it to remain? Lord, we mustn't do anything to cut into the pushers' revenues! Can't go around making it tough for pimps to sponge a living!

If it were legal, there would be districts and the whole thing would not be taking place in areas where it is not wanted. I lived in a large city and I prefer to walk. I dress conservatively and am no spring chicken. Cannot tell you how often some clown looking to get laid has pulled up and made extremely offensive suggestions, remarks and even half-way threatened me. If it were legal, my daughter and many others would enjoy a life free of such idiot assumptions that any female walking anywhere after 4 PM must be a whore! I finally gave in and put a holstered sidearm on when I went to the grocery store for cat food. Nice neighborhood but too many repressed bozos out there cruisin'. If they got laid once in awhile by someone who was amenable, maybe they wouldn't be such jackasses to the rest of the population.

And, if you doubt that prostitution was once sacred, your education has some huge gaping holes and I am sorry for that because it renders you unable to discuss this issue with any frame of reference besides your own narrow viewpoint.

Legalized prostitution is victim less. The way it stands now, there are a whole lotta victims and the only winners are the pimps and drug pushers.

[Wwagsthedog]

3. Could be said that there is some truth to the story ...

... except that john cornyn said it.

[Sweetpea]

4. I witnessed it last weekend in North Carolina

mexicans working in a cotton field or maybe it was tobacco.

[Big_AJ]

29. 'Mexicans' working in a NC field doesn't mean

abuse, slavery or even INS violations.

AJ

[Concordance]

5. An "anglo" thing...

I think large part of this is an "Anglo" thing. I am talking about the mail order bride business. While the mail order bride business does exist in western Europe, and other places as well, it is the Americans and British who have the monopoly in this industry. Sad really, when you think about it. Not just the poor women that are lured with false promises, but the men as well.

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

19. I suppose...

... you and your "social community" have first hand knowledge of the mail order bride business, to be able to speak with such emphasis.

[Concordance]

38. One only needs eyes.

One only needs eyes to see and ears to hear.

The truth stings, burns, and angers the hearts of men.

[lostnfound]

17. Another example of the important problems Bush ISN'T working on.

While he wages war on the wrong country.

[Cerridwen]

20. Legalizing prostitution . . .

and >enforcing< laws against the hiring of undocumented people would go a long way to slow down the slave trade in this country.

When events occur in the dark and out of sight, horrendous abuses can and do occur.

I am a native Las Vegan. Prostitution is not legal here; though it is tolerated with a wink and a nudge. It is however legal in the next county in which there are several established and regulated brothels. The state health departments regularly inspect the facilities. The women who work in those facilities are required to regularly go in for health check ups. There have been few (one?) reports of STDs in Nevada brothels.

Two friends of mine have done studies on the sex industry in Nevada. There have been reports on the women who work in the brothels in Nevada. Working in legal brothels, to these women, is a job.

On the streets is a different story. You see, there is a hierarchy in prostitution; street prostitutes, which is where you find drugs and young girls who are abused and exploited by pimps and the police; call girls, which is where you will find college girls earning money to pay for school (a friend of mine is a former call girl); and a few housewives here and there who are earning a little "pin" money (I used to babysit for one).

If prostitution were legal and regulated; and some would argue, organized, it would be less likely to be the dumping ground and money maker for those who thrive in the dark, dank places in our society.

If young girls and women could make a living wage, could feed themselves and their families, were respected as human beings instead of being seen by some as incubators or tits-on-legs, we would not be having this discussion about prostitution.

[salin]

21. Anyone see the irony per Bush's speech (after no wmds) about Iraq

that focused on no more things like torture rooms... and something having to do with sex/slavery (don't recall the exact words but those were the two themes.) They seemed to represent a big switch in his Yea we are winning and things are better even if there was no reason to go to war in Iraq that mirrors the reasons that we told/fed you the public...

[hightime]

24. I want to pay a poor black woman for sex!!

Then maybe a poor mexican woman....wait..wait...WITH a Filipino woman at the same time. Yeehaa, I wonder how much it will cost to degrade several at the same time? Afterwards, for a few dollars more, they can all clean my house and yard.


Sound liberating????

[clown]

45. No it doesn't

But if it were legal, the women would have a choice, whereas now they are forced into the degrading acts by their pimps. I heard on Stern (so take as you wish) that in the red light district, you pay for 15 minutes with a woman, and if you try to go over that, there is a phone they can use, and the local biker gangs come or the police come. They said that you had better hope the police get there first, so I guess illegal elements get involved anyway. Like most problems, there isn't a simple solution I suppose, but I do think legalization would make it better than it is now.

[lazarus]

33. interestingly

virtually every post on this thread has been about female prostitution.

I guess the men who are slaves don't matter that much...

[JohnOneillsMemory]

34. Slavery back? It hadn't left for over 300 years. Duh.

Those people who do guerilla theater while infiltrating corporate trade conferences actually disguised themselves as WTO reps and gave speeches about how to incorporate slavery into your country's economy.

They were very well-recieved and applauded when they had expected to be run out on the face of such a horrible satire on the attendees.

They discovered that they could crash meetings and suggest the most rediculous stuff and people applauded if it sounded like a money maker.

People. Some peope. In suits. Go see 'The Corporation.'