Stadium Prayer Dominates Lutheran Vote

[Khephra]

ST. LOUIS (AP) -- The Rev. David Benke caused a stir within the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod by praying at a Yankee Stadium interfaith service days after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

Nearly three years later, that brief prayer will be a central issue in the denomination's elections scheduled for Sunday.

The Rev. Gerald Kieschnick, a first-term president of the conservative Missouri Synod, had approved Benke's participation in the New York event. Some pastors objected, saying the service improperly mixed different religious beliefs, and they blamed Kieschnick for allowing Benke to join in.

snip..............

``I think it's 50-50 as to whether he is re-elected or not. Conservatives are very intent on his defeat,'' said the Rev. Russell Saltzman, editor of Forum Letter, a publication about Lutheranism.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Lutherans-Election.html

[Cerridwen]

1. "improperly mixed different religious beliefs" ?!!

Er?

Religious freedom. Melting pot.

[struggle4progress]

2. An attempt by rightwing extremists to control the Missouri synod:

The charges?

<snip>
The objecting pastors said Benke's actions violated denominational rules against syncretism -- the mingling of Christian and non-Christian beliefs -- and unionism -- when people of different faiths worship together. The pastors filed formal charges against Benke and he was suspended for several months until a church review cleared him.
<snip>
(from NYT article)

And the evidence?

<snip>
REV DAVID BENKE: Oh, we’re stronger now than we were an hour ago. And you know, my sisters and brothers, we’re not nearly as strong as we’re going to be. And the strength we have is the power of love, and the power of love you have received is from God for God is love. So take the hand of one next to you now and join me in prayer on this field of dreams turned into God’s house of prayer.

O Lord our God, we’re leaning on you today. You are our tower of strength and we’re leaning on you. You are our mighty fortress, our God who is a rock. In you do we stand. Those of us who bear the name of Christ know that you stood so tall when you stooped down to send a son through death and life to bring us back together.

And we lean on you today, O tower of strength. Be with those who mourn the loss of loved ones. Bring them closer to us day-by-day. O heavenly father, we pray at this time that you might extend Jacob’s ladder for those who ascended the stairways to save us as others escaped the fire and flames. O tower of strength, open innocent and victimized hearts to the sacrifice of the innocent one. Pour your consolation upon the promised eyes, especially our children.

O heavenly father, unbind, unfear, unscorch, unsear our souls, renew us in your free spirit. We’re leaning on you, our tower of strength. We find our refuge in the shadow of your shelter. Lead us from this place strong to bring forth a power of your love wherever we are in the precious name of Jesus. Amen (applause).
<snip>
http://www.crisisinthelcms.org/appendixZ.htm

[phaseolus]

5. Missouri & especially Wisconsin Synod Lutherans are hung up on categories

I went to a Lutheran high school and most of the religion classes were about why Missouri Synod Lutheran doctrine was different than anyone else's.

Really quite silly when you think about it...

[efhmc]

3. This Lutheran thinks very little of any relgion that still does not allow

female pastors. Can you say dark ages?

[jono]

7. My former LCMS church gave women the right to vote

less than 15 years ago. Women pastors? Out of the question. My father is a pastor, which is why I was a member. The folks are nice, but their rigidity is frightening.

[efhmc]

9. I was approached by a Missoouri synod member when I first

moved to Houston years ago and asked if I wanted to join their church, that the women were getting ready to "get the vote". Whoa, was that scary. I had to be polite-she was the mother of one of my daughter's friends but I firmly declined saying that the Lutheran church I went to treated women as one in Christ.

[kysrsoze]

8. I'm ELCA. Missouri Synod is filled with assholes. How do I know?

My aunt is one. My parents are too, but they're getting tired of what Mo. Synod has to say. My dad visited ELCA and they're much more liberal and welcoming to everyone. We have a female pastor too!

[leesa]

4. Religion...such petty concerns these people have!

[blackcat77]

6. Go to any fundie religious discussion group...

...and bring up the issue of pre-tribulation vs. post-tribulation rapture. They just go nuts about it, so yeah, they love to argue about jots and tittles.

[efhmc]

10. What the hay is that exactl;y? No wait let me find out later. I bet it is

really important in the whole love one another theme so I'll just ask Jesus.

[ima_sinnic]

11. is there any organized religion that does not

have its panties in a bunch over some stupid-a** trivial thing or another? what important concerns these phony hypocrites have!!

sheesh. I turned my back on the whole mythology thing a long time ago. it's like cavemen fighting over which witch doctor has the "right" bag of tricks.

[Khephra]

12. Actually quite a few

(On edit: I guess it depends on what you mean by "organized".)

I don't think the Quakers and UU are that upset about much...other than wars and other forms of injustice. Wicca is pretty much concerned with just having the right to worship. There are others, but I think the point is made.

But I don't think those concerns count as being idiotic like these Lutherans (or the Religious Right).

[saigon68]

15. OUT STANDING POST and an "AWARD WINNER"

"it's like cavemen fighting over which witch doctor has the "right" bag of tricks."

SAIGON' SARCASTIC POST OF THE DAY AWARD WINNER

CONGRATULATIONS



Wear it with Pride.

[banana republican]

13. LCMS Still hasn't recovered from it's 1970's inquisition

at Concordia Seminary. During that time they fired anyone who believed that the bible was *NOT* literally true.

I was enrolled at the Lutheran School of Theology in Chicago during the early '70s. We had a lot of students transfer in from there.

Next to the Wisconsin Synod and the Church of the Lutheran Confession they are the worst of the worst.

If you don't believe what they believe; forget it; they will excommunicate you at the drop of a hat.

[Beaker]

18. wow, that's creepy, and i did not know that-

BTW- which Concordia? My sister went to the teacher's college in River Forest IL.

How can anyone with more than an ounce of brains believe that the noah story is literally true?

although- when i was in 6th grade at the elementary school connected to our missouri synod church, our teacher- Mr. Kurth(who, coincidentally went on to teach at Concordia)...anyway, Mr. Kurth said that he knew that when jesus comes back, it was going to be at night, because(this is NO LIE-it's what he said, and he was not joking) in the bible jesus tells his disciples that when he returns it will be like a thief in the night...obviously the verse is meant to imply that his return will come out of the blue, unexpected and without warning- but to mr.kurth, it meant that he'd be meeting his maker in his jammies...
even back then however, the doubt about the whole she-bang was starting to creep into my mind- I pointed out that since it wasn't night time throughout the whole world at the same time, and that something as spectacular as the return of christ was sure to be a worldwide phenomenon, wouldn't some people witness it in daylight? and even if they didn't, wouldn't the daylight people get suspicious when they lost contact with all the nightime parts of the earth? i can't remember how he changed the subject, just that he did, and very quickly.

[murielm99]

19. I was raised in that church, too.

My brother and his wife graduated from Concordia River Forest, which was less repressive at the time than the Californai Concordia schools, and the one in Milwaukee. I graduated from Valparaiso University.

Valpo was a bit different in the sixties when I was there. Everyone questioned everything. Many of us who were knowledgeable about our faith really went after the church, too.

Now it is a bit more repressive again. I visited there with two of my children, who were good students and heavily recruited by the school.

Neither of them were interested in the school. My youngest daughter, a Wiccan, was especially turned off by the religion.

It was her choice, though. She needed to go to school wherever she was most comfortable. I did not have that choice myself. My parents MADE me go to Valpo.

Don't get me wrong -- I got a very good education there.

And, some of the traditions I was taught, like the things about communion, prayer, and the liturgy are not terrible things. I understand those traditions and respect them. It makes perfect sense to me, in terms of their doctrine, that they do not want prayer and communion with people outside the denomination. They want everyone to be on the same page.

I did leave that church, though, even though I had been comfortable in it. I could not accept the literalism, either. I remember the heresy charges, and the excommunications at the Concordia seminary. I had a few freinds there.

I enjoy going back for services when I visit family members, though. Odd, isn't it?

I wonder if any of the Missouri Synod people here realize that there are several congregations around the country who are born-again, and very demonstrative during their services. My parents went to one for awhile, and I hated the place. The synod knows about them, and just ignores them.

I am a progressive person in the secular part of my life, but I feel the pull of tradition. I have mixed feelings sometimes about my decision to join a more liberal denomination.

[Piperay]

14. I was raised a Lutheran but

our church was ALC and made a big deal out of saying that they were not anything like the Missouri Synod. At the time I didn't know the difference but I am very glad that I was part of the more liberal wing. Lately I have been concerned because my father who had not attended church for years (neither have I and I don't intend to) decided to go back. I guess he thought he would join to have some social life and make some friends, he is over 84 years old and lonely since the death of my mother. I encouraged him because I thought he could use some companionship but I realized it was a big mistake because the church he ended up a member of is Missouri Synod. It seems that lately he has come up with some strange ideas on things and I think he is getting them at that church. My father is a hard-core Democrat and a confirmed chimp hater, I swear if he starts spouting in RW political crap that he picks up at that church I am going to go over there and have it out with someone! :mad:

[Beaker]

16. the church we attended was Missouri Synod Lutheran...

or as i like to call it, the "show-me" synod (as in- if you want me to believe in god, you're gonna have to "show me" some proof).
I went k-6 at the lutheran elementary school attatched to our church, then 7-8 in public school, and high school at a Lutheran High School that no longer exists(we just had our 25th reunion- the Class of '79 had 47 students).
I never got too much into the church politics, and until i was out of high school, i didn't get too much into regular politics either, so i didn't know from conservative or liberal- i just tried to hold the values that as a "christian" i thought would be most in line with Christ's teaching(go figure). also- since my dad was a heavy equipment(cranes mostly) operator, we were definitely a blue-collar family- and economics played a more important role in our family's political views than the church.
But- I don't go to church any more either, even on the holidays- i'm a born-again atheist. when you throw off the shackles of organized and god-based religions, it's like you've been born again, into the truth that we ARE alone here on this planet(btw- i don't mean alone in the universe, i mean alone in the sense that there is no omni-everything being watching us from heaven...).

[IndianaGreen]

17. So a patriotic service, a pro-American service, is frowned upon by LC-MS

The conservatives didn't like the ecumenical service on the aftermath of 9-11? This is an un-American position on their part, isn't it? I guess the victims are also burning in Hell because they weren't members of the LC-MS.

It seems to me that the conservatives in the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod have more in common with Osama bin Laden than I realized!