Democrats Avoid Platform Fight Over Iraq

[AlGore-08.com]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-4297365,00.html

By KEN THOMAS

Associated Press Writer

HOLLYWOOD, Fla. (AP) - John Kerry's presidential campaign avoided a platform fight Saturday by persuading activists to drop virulent language about the Iraq war that would have declared the conflict a mistake from the beginning.

The Democratic platform committee worked through the day at a beachfront resort to put final details on the party's statement of principles for the November elections.

The platform will be shaped heavily by national security crises and presumptive nominee Kerry's campaign.

First, however, the committee had to avoid demands by a group of activists that the document describe the entry into Iraq as a mistake and lay down an exit strategy to get American forces out of Iraq. Still, the document includes tough language on terrorism and President Bush's handling of the war in Iraq.

(More... )

[Radical Activist]

1. Oh so THAT'S why Kucinich stayed in the race!

Now all the people who called him a loony toon for staying in the race for so long know why. Electing more Kucinich delegates really was the only way to put some meaning and backbone in the party platform. It looks like we may get a watered down DLC version anyway.

[madfloridian]

2. So, does that mean no one can say the war was a mistake?

Oops, we better tell Howard Dean really fast. Shut up, Howard. I guess Kucinich already knows, at least it sounds that way.

My My My.

[KareBear]

7. Oh how I wish Dean had been nominated *sigh*

[IndianaGreen]

33. Because the DLC supported the war!

Don't you get it? To attack the war is to attack the DLC.

[Freddie Stubbs]

40. And Democratic primary voters chose a DLCer who supported the war

If they had wnated an anti-war candidate, they would have nominated one.

[Forkboy]

69. Which is even sadder

[IndianaGreen]

87. The vote was ABB - voters picked Kerry because he could beat Bush

or so they thought, not because they approved of Kerry's PPI imperialist agenda (if they were even aware of it!).

[Freddie Stubbs]

92. They weren't looking for a far left liberal

They were looking for a moderate.

[sangh0]

100. They could have voted for Dean of DK and still be ABB

but for reasons IG never explains, they picked Kerry.

[Freddie Stubbs]

116. They wanted someone who was electable

Many thought for a while that Dean fit the bill. But some of his flubs caused enough people to have second thoughts.

[Cheneys_former_heart]

3. He's gotta lay out some kind of exit strategy

If he wants to get the vote of the mushy middle. If he lays out some bare bones of an exit strategy, the entire U.S military and their families will be voting Kerry no matter what Bush says.

[lastknowngood]

4. Now we have 2 pro war pro death pro empire candidates

damn they are trying the damnedest to get me to stay home

[peacetalksforall]

9. Me too...

Now I know why I have been an Independent all these years - I thought it was so that I could be fair to the best candidate, though my anti-right wing sentiments have mounted for decades and I would never vote for a single Republican because of their lock-step railroading and guilt by association. A relative always laughed at me for supporting Democrats pointing out the minimal differences between Democrats and Repubicans and telling me that the difference was a sham.

I now feel that the vote for killing and the patriot act has alienated me from everything.

Paul Wellstone -

First vote in the Senate - against Iraq War 1
Last vote in the Senate - against Iraq War 2.

Did he get to say anything about the Patriot Act - I forget the timing of it all.

Anyway, no one represents me. I'll vote, but everything else on the platform means little in comparison. I'm not taking this well.

It's obvious they can't say it's a mistake, because that means Kerry and Edwards made a mistake.

[DemBones DemBones]

29. Didn't Wellstone vote for the Patriot Act?

I think he did. Many politicians were cowed into submission back then. I think Russ Feingold was the only senator to vote agains it. Things were better in the House, with Dennis Kucinich and the Progressive Caucus, plus the Congressional Black Caucus, but most congressmen/women still voted for it. Ashcroft knew what a great chance this was to pass it, with everyone still in shock.

If you go back and read DU in the days right after 9/11, you'll be surprised at how conservative many comments were. I really felt alone back then.

I'm voting for Kerry and hoping he'll be more progressive once he's elected. At the worst, he'll be 100% better than Bush*.

[w4rma]

108. Yes. (nt)

[madfloridian]

5. THIS is virulent language?? The war was wrong is virulent? OMG

SNIP.." John Kerry's presidential campaign avoided a platform fight Saturday by persuading activists to drop virulent language about the Iraq war that would have declared the conflict a mistake from the beginning....."

Really? You mean they are saying the Kucinich and Dean used "virulent language?"

AND, we are supposed to say ok, and let it go. Right?

[Individualist]

39. "drop virulent language about the Iraq war"

Translation: Anti-war dems are supposed to shut up and drink the damn koolaid.

The war was wrong from the beginning, we know PNAC was behind it, and I for one will never shut up.

[regnaD kciN]

6. Disgusting but unsurprising...

..after all, if there had been such a platform plank, can you imagine the Republican response? "The Democrats say that it was a mistake to invade Iraq. They should try telling that to the X Democratic Senators and Representatives who voted to authorize war...including their Presidential and Vice-Presidential candidates!"

:eyes:

[Solly Mack]

8. The invasion was a mistake. I'll keep saying it too

Nothing...but absolutely nothing....merits denying the truth. ..and the truth is, we invaded a country based on lies promoted by the state..making it not just a mistake but immoral and illegal.

Garner all the votes you can...but don't sacrifice truth. Sacrificing this particular truth will aid in Bush Inc getting away with murder.

[demoman123]

80. For a "mistake," this is too big.

It was a war crime. Ad bellum and in bello.

[Solly Mack]

86. Very true

[mike_c]

10. barf emoticon on high alert....

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

Damned invertebrates! Gee, we wouldn't want to go WAY THE F**K OUT ON A LIMB and describe the invasion of Iraq as a "mistake," would we? Stinking pig bastard pink-tutu SOB's need to find their spines. Thank you for letting me share....

[Pastiche423]

11. How can I politely

call them fucking wimps?

[ozone_man]

106. Sometimes you can't be polite.

Kerry has lost every chance to convince me that he should get my vote. At least he's consistent.

It's stuff like this that reinforces my belief that there is very little difference between these two parties.

[Cocoa]

12. gotta love Jesse

always can be counted on for a great line. :-)

The gathering was in Florida, where Bush narrowly defeated Al Gore in 2000 after a spate of legal challenges, a 36-day recount and a ruling by the U.S. Supreme Court.

Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr. of Illinois said the meeting's location was ``in the middle of a crime scene. If I had a big yellow ribbon, I would tie it around this entire state.''

[Seth Gecko]

13. Kerry better be careful

it would be better to be totally silent than say the war was justified in any way.

[Radical Activist]

14. What are Dean delegates doing?

Are they fighting to move the platform left like the Kucinich delegates? Or are they falling in with the party establishments line and Kerry's wishes like Howard is?

[madfloridian]

16. This is NOT about Dean. You turn every thread into an attack on Dean.

This is about the fact that the war was wrong. Don't worry, I am angry at Dean now, too.

This thread is about Kerry/Edwards and the Democrats.

[shance]

109. Radical, why do you even flatter yourself by calling yourself *Radical*?

Who are you kidding?

The way you defend Kerry, youd be Radical Right before youd be lucky enough to be anything to the left.

Fine to defend Kerry, but to pick fights about Dean and to essentially misrepresent yourself is silly.

[hightime]

15. Don't worry, they are only saying these things to get elected....

then they will the exact opposite....BULLSHIT!!

[Terry_M]

17. If Kucinich and Dean have stopped putting pressure from the left

and if Nader pulls out, as many want, how far right will Kerry go? With absolutely no pressure from the left, there's nothing to stop him from saying that he'll even pardon Bush if anything serious builds up against him.

[sangh0]

101. I really worry about what Kerry might say

but then I start thinking about what a re-selected Bush* might *DO*.

[Jack Rabbit]

18. Just because the Democratic Party's platform won't say so

. . . doesn't mean the invasion wasn't a mistake from the beginning.

It was and the DLC can deal with it.

[sampsonblk]

19. Spineless ridiculous embarrassment

Why are we jumping onto the wrong side of history with both feet???

This is a train wreck. Even the public knows it now. The party "leadership" is going against the vast majority of the party faithful, as well as the general public sentiment. Even pragmatists (who should all realize they have egg on their faces now) have to be concerned about this nonsense.

[peterh]

20. IMHO….this just gives ammunition

To those that have been sitting on the fence wondering….if there’s no difference, why change horses in mid-stream…..Israel, Iraq, war on terra, war on Liberty…..really…why the fuck change horses in mid-stream….what the fuck is going to change….DLC…RNC…forgive my rant, but I ain’t giving the critter one dime….I’ll still vote for the stinkin’ fool, but he’s on his own in my book…



I’ll also be the last one to criticize someone voting for Nader….

[Media_Lies_Daily]

23. No difference? Who's to blame also for the screwed-up economy,...

...lack of good-paying jobs, and the erosion of civil liberties in addition to the wars in the Middle East? How many people do you really believe are still sitting on the fence with all of this crap going on???

If any rational person can't see the difference between FratBoy and Kerry, then they should stay the heck home instead of wasting their vote on that POS, GOP-wannabe Nader.

[HFishbine]

61. You're right

at least the dem candidates didn't vote for the Patriot... oh, wait. Nevermind.

[Bo]

21. What else can he do......?

We are as a nation dying over there.

[madfloridian]

22. The platform could say the war was wrong.

How would that make more die? I don't think it would. The war was wrong.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

24. Yes, we all know the war is wrong and that it was based on a pack...

...lies. But the objective here is getting Kerry elected, and to do that he has to appeal to a large number of people across a broad span of political beliefs.

Taking this stand on Iraq will allow those voters in the deep south and in other communities that don't have our depth of information to vote for Kerry. Those are the people that are being destroyed by the economy, but they believe that we're in Iraq to protect America. I know, I hate that way of thinking, too...but I live in the deep south and I think I know what they're thinking on these kinds of issues.

[Terry_M]

25. And to avoid problems for re-election

He won't allow any investigations of Bush, and if he is convicted, he'll even pardon him?

[Solly Mack]

26. I take it you've played this game before?

[Terry_M]

57. Maybe

Not entirely sure what you mean...

[Solly Mack]

58. Sorry. Only meant compromise sets the stage for future compromise

and contrary to much rationalized popular myth, not all compromise is good.

I was agreeing with you more or less. I was remarking that you've been down this road before.

[madfloridian]

59. Yes, you are right.

I wish people would see that. I never did until 2000. I have little patience with it now.

I think our team is a good one, and I like a lot of the platform.

However, I just think about the soldiers who have died, and the Iraqis we have killed. They don't have a voice unless we say it is wrong.

[Solly Mack]

60. We are their only voice now

We must speak for them. We must.

[Fovea]

27. This is the Democratic party put on notice.

I will vote for Kerry/Edwards in November, but donations from now on go only to candidates who support a positions that do not anger or insult me.

You may lose me, Democratic party. But the cynical grab for the independents at the expense of the base *will* work this time-- I will vote Democrat for President. Just don't whine in 2006 when this life long Dem donates to the Greens.

The manifest evil of the Iraqi misadventure will prove to be America's moment to shoot itself in a painful place vis a vis the effort to eradicate global terrorism. Those who do not use the moment to clearly state the reality of Iraq on the ground today, if not from the very beginning, will regret it later. When we defeat Bush, the enormity of the horror that has been done to America by the neocons/theocrats will finally be known. It will be a domestic Abu Ghraib.

So from dogcatcher to Governor, Senator, or Representitive, I will vote Green, or any actually progressive candidate. When the Democrats run a DLC candidate in the future, I will have to be specifically persuaded not to vote Green against them.

Kerry may give himself a secure win like this, but he is cutting off his coatails with this sort of strategy and policy. And we need a Democratic Senate and/or House more than we need the Whitehouse.
Otherwise SCOTUS will become a threat to democracy and the union.

In case you didn't notice this, this strategy does not energize the base, nor does it do much to woo back the disaffected folks who used to proudly call themselves Democrat. Many of whom date from the days of Reagan, and got off the bandwagon when the Dems stopped being interested in their problems. Those non-voters have a name, they are called the poor and working class.

They currently believe in Powerball more than politics, as their salvation. And until recently, they have had a lot of mass opiates to distract them. But the real stories are now getting too hot not to cover. And SCOTUS is in revolt. Some NeoClowns are going down, but do not lose track of the back story. The economy was deliberately wrecked in an energy ponzi scheme.

It will continue to be wrecked until we insist that serious, virulent reform gets slapped upside the currently criminal corporatist government. Those whom Bush refers to as his base are cementing a global energy oligarchy into place. Growth and profit in the American economy will primarily be in Energy marketrage on a global level. A similar oligarchy is evolving with water supplies. Free trade? Yeah, sure.

There is a one sided class warfare going on in America, and of the folks on the podium, I fear only Edwards actually sees it.

Working Class Americans have a lot more in common with their Mexican NAFTA partners than they do with their Canadian brothers. And it is your responsibility to change that, or heaven forfend what will happen when the excluded defend themselves. You must do this because American citizens deserve to be as free and as healthy as the Europeans, and so many things in America need fundamental repair, not more market gaming.

If you plan on being that president, Senator Kerry, it would behoove you to sound like it now, and get the rest of the party behind a populist reform platform domestically. And we must develop a serious exit strategy, not just from Iraq, but from the region that coordinates with serious conservation and independence from foreign oil. We are there because of the oil. We must work our way into the next generation of energy production and include a far greater number of energy sources and small producers of renewable electricity sources. We need to rebuild America's cities, homes, factories, and transit around efficiency and robustness against a more extreme climate. This alone would take a generation, but the need this adresses is already upon our horizon.

This is the administration that will either overcome America's energy problems, or become slaves to them. It is time to enter the future and put aside the baggage of the past. We really need a 21st Century president, not someone who wants to be the biggest robber baron, of all his robber baron friends.

[peterh]

28. Bravo….

:thumbsup:

[madfloridian]

30. They don't care what we think.

It would be so easy to say the war was wrong. This way they hush up Dean and Kucinich effectively. Once they do that, it is not clear what other little things we must do to win.

How about winning by telling the truth? The damn war was wrong. Just that simple!

[Barkley]

68. You're on the money realpolitik!

I'm voting for Kerry because it will get Bush out of office.

And beyond that I'll not vote for a solitary Democrat (or any other candidate) that doesn't have the sense to call this war in Iraq WRONG!

In Pasadena, Calif. Adam Shrift (who supports the war) is being challenged by a socialist for his House of Rep seat. I can't even remember the challenger's name but I'm voting for him. And I believe he has a real chance of winning.

Many people are just fed up with our representatives not speaking out.

Thanks for sharing your ideas and thoughts on the DU.

[Suspicious]

111. Thank you -

So from dogcatcher to Governor, Senator, or Representitive, I will vote Green, or any actually progressive candidate.

I concur. As a matter of fact, I'm so wobbly on the upcoming election, I don't dare think about it for too long, because my dominant, principled side will talk myself right out of the Kerry vote. I'm going to have to walk in there and just be done with it - quickly - or I'll never be able to go through with it.

I could have voted for Kucinich in a flat second. Of course, with the "New" Democrats in charge, I knew I would never be given that chance. :mad:

After November, I will never allow myself to do it again. The Greens may not be perfect, but they're progressive, they don't turn their noses up at ideals and they don't seem to marginalize people who believe "idealist" is not a derogatory word.

We really need a 21st Century president, not someone who wants to be the biggest robber baron, of all his robber baron friends.

Amen.

[eridani]

112. An addendum

from the Kucinich4president Yahoo group.

Think about it: the majority position of party loyalists can't even get a hearing at its own convention for fear of "alienating" people who couldn't care less.

[Dhalgren]

119. Well said! 100% agreement!

Kerry may win the Presidency in Nov. (I hope he does), but the real, long term winner in this race to the right is the Green Party. In the years to come the Repubs and the Dems will have to split the conservative vote, and the liberal vote will go to the Greens (or whatever the Greens become after the huge influx of leftist, former Democrats). I for one am out of the Democratic Party after Nov. If this is supposed to be a representative democracy, then I want to be represented by a party that shares my views - The Dems obviously do not.

[madfloridian]

31. This paragraph bothers me the most.

SNIP..."First, however, the committee had to avoid demands by a group of activists that the document describe the entry into Iraq as a mistake and lay down an exit strategy to get American forces out of Iraq. Still, the document includes tough language on terrorism and President Bush's handling of the war in Iraq. "

That is Al From, Bruce Reed, and Will Marshall speaking there. Sounds just like them. They detest "activists". Truly, they do.

[Justitia]

105. every time I see Will Marshall's name, my head explodes!!!!

I still find it EXTRAORDINARY that we have a PNAC signatory lurking in our midst!!!!

[stickdog]

32. Upon hearing this, I've got some virulent language for my chicken shit

party leaders.

[JCMach1]

37. Precisely

:grr:

[Solly Mack]

34. kick

[tinanator]

35. ABB?

get what you pay for.

[Cerridwen]

36. I'm glad to see the democrats are learning/practicing politics

and no I'm not being sarcastic.

Kerry/Edwards have to appeal to the part of the U.S. population that still thinks the war in Iraq is a good thing and that the U.S. troops are doing some good there. The only way to do that is to compromise on this issue regardless of how Kerry/Edwards or Kucinich delegates may feel. It ain't pretty, but it's how you win elections.

Winning elections is how you have the power to change policy. Ideals are all well and good; but ideals in a vacuum, or around your kitchen table, may not do much to change the current political climate.

Once Kerry/Edwards are in office, they will have more power, maybe even enough power, to implement their ideals.

[madfloridian]

42. I disagree. They are going to avoid the truth. This is life and death.

Not just a political issue. It is an issue of life and death of our soldiers and Iraqi civilians. What do you think we are doing over there? People are dying. Look up Fallujah. Some of our military were ready to take out the whole town of 250,000 to get the "terrorists".

In this case they need to say the whole truth.

[HFishbine]

62. "appeal to those who think the war was a good thing."

Hmm. I thought we were going for a majority.

"All in all, do you think the situation in Iraq was worth going to war over, or not?"

Worth It: 41

Not Worth It: 52

http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm

[tinanator]

78. theyre called Republicans

I thought?

[hansolsen]

90. This won't help Kerry win the election. It'll guarantee he loses the

debates with Bush. Instead of debating the war head up, he will have some nuanced position that says Bush was right to go to war but short on execution. Big fucking deal. Bush wins that argument hands down every time, just by showing up.

[leesa]

38. Kerry. Same old shit.

Everyone on the planet knows the war was an illegal misadventure, and our corrupt Dems are gonna STILL try to con us into believing otherwise.

[Freddie Stubbs]

41. Funny how Democratic primary voters chose someone who disagrees with

'everyone on the planet.' I guess that 'everyone on the planet' does not include Democratic primary voters, or they have more important priorities than this issue.

[tinanator]

43. Thank God we have trustworthy elections

otherwise your statement would be baseless.

[Solly Mack]

44. ROFLMAO

SLAM DUNK

[Freddie Stubbs]

47. No electroic voting in the Iowa caucuses

How well did the anti-war candidates do there?

[madfloridian]

51. You just put your finger on the problem.

Iowa elected out nominee. Don't get me wrong, I will vote for them. However, many in Iowa are/were for the war. Hey, at that time many were everywhere.

You just pointed out the weak point in our elections. One little state that is not at all indicative of coastal states like Florida, CA, NY....got to choose our nominee.

There was no recovery time due to the front-loading. Thanks for pointing this out so clearly.

I never got a chance to vote for my choice. Neither did other larger states. You are so right.

[Freddie Stubbs]

52. Kerry was leading in the polls in most states BEFORE the Iowa Caucuses

I saw Joe Trippi on TV today say that the Dean campaign had lost it two weeks before Iowa.

[madfloridian]

55. This is not about Dean. It is about truth. Don't twist it.

Dean was still leading or tied with someone else in many larger states like Florida, CA, and NY. Clark was just about tied with Dean here.

A small state, mostly conservative or moderate, chose our nominee.
That is my point.

Trippi is making money off the campaign while excusing a lot of his failures as manager.

[Freddie Stubbs]

96. Do you have any links to support this?

:shrug:

[sangh0]

102. 75% of the primary voters in IOWA say they were "anti-war"

so the claim that Iowans were for the war is a fantasy and not to be believed.

[Freddie Stubbs]

117. Perhaps it was not their most important issue

Or they simply thought that an anti-war candidate was unelectable.

[tinanator]

63. you call that an election

a nationwide referendum attended by how many corn farmers?

[Freddie Stubbs]

93. Only 5% of Iowans are employed in agriculture

Despite the stereotypes that some may try to use.

[Freddie Stubbs]

48. No electronic voting in the DC caucuses

Kerry had twice as many votes there than any of the other candidates.

[tinanator]

64. WOW I never knew

electoral fraud required black box voting?
And you claim there were no electronics or computers involved in the vote tallying? And caucusing is the same as a straight vote?
Boy, you really seem to have a concern about this point...

[Freddie Stubbs]

97. Are you suggesting that the DC Democratic party cooked the books

To ensure a Kerry victory?

[Freddie Stubbs]

49. No electronic voting in the Nevada caucuses

Kerry won almost 2/3 of the vote there.

[Freddie Stubbs]

50. No electronic voting in the Maine Caucuses

Kerry won that one too.

[madfloridian]

56. Want to hear about the ME caucuses?

Oh, the things you will find. No problems there.

[Freddie Stubbs]

98. Yes, I would like to hear about them

;)

[Justitia]

107. How about how the votes weren't counted for over a week?

While they were held hostage at the election official's house, while she refused to turn them over?

Puleeze....

Iowa had it's own backstabbing conspiracies too and you know it.

Look, we have MOVED ON and said we are supporting the ticket.
Don't piss us off by trying to re-open old wounds and justify and rationalize how fully supported the nominee is.
Loads of us have been around the block a few times and saw it all go down.

We ARE ON BOARD, just don't try to bullshit us into lying sycophants - we aren't Republicans.

If our ticket is sooooo strong, BTW, why the fuck can we not just say the war was a MISTAKE????

Who will be the last fucking DEMOCRAT to ask a man to die for a MISTAKE???

Anyway, go Kerry/Edwards.

[Freddie Stubbs]

118. I am unaware of any "backstabbing conspiracies" in Iowa

None of the campaigns complained about any funny business in Maine or Iowa.

[Freddie Stubbs]

54. No electronic voting in the Hawaiin Caucuses

Kerry won 1/2 of the vote there.

[tinanator]

65. not in every part of the state

Definitely parts of that story you dont want to elucidate upon. Say hi to the boys.

[Freddie Stubbs]

99. Which boys would you like me to say hi to?

:shrug:

[CTLawGuy]

114. wow, after everyone else except for Kucinich dropped out

congrats to kerry :eyes:

[hang a left]

75. Gimme 5. n/t

[geek tragedy]

95. Wow, a tinfoil conspiracy to explain Kerry.

Would you characterize Kerry's primary win as MIHOP or LIHOP? Did it involve the CIA?

[CTLawGuy]

113. Im sick of this argument

they were cowed into voting for Kerry by fear-mongering DLC/media-types who told them Dean couldn't win.

The voters went for someone who agreed with them less, just so they'd perceive they'd have a better shot at winning.

[Forkboy]

45. I can't wait for November

so I can finally cast my last Dem vote.*

*No,any future votes wont be for repubs either.

[bobthedrummer]

46. This is when I'm PROUD to be an Independent voter

Kerry/Edwards have my vote in November but not any other support-I did a lot of volunteer stuff for Kucinich.

After casting my vote I'm going to work for developing third parties that are promoting populist and progressive candidates, themes and issues.

What a terrible thing when the opposition to a criminal illegal war and all the attendant evils of this treasonous fascist regime melts down to this kowtowing to militarism and empire:puke::puke::puke:

[hansolsen]

91. If Kerry governs like he campaigns I will work to make him a one

term president.

[midwayer]

53. The Bush Cartel will /are hanging

THEMSELVES.

The neocons will not need the help of Kerry / Edwards in doing so.

The positive way to gain the support of the American people is to move forward to resolve the Iraq issue and push the domestic social/economic issues instead of moving in reverse IMO

Kerry is still critical of Bush within this article still posted at his website.

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/clips/news_2004_0414a.html

"Still, the document includes tough language on terrorism and President Bush's handling of the war in Iraq."

[tinanator]

66. tough language?

talks cheap. The Bushcorpfamilia will never hang for their war crimes and acts of treason. Win-win.

[Chicago Democrat]

67. Platform=Worthless document endlessly compromised of no value.

QED

[jpgray]

70. This is just so the platform covers all Democrats for the election

There are some who still refuse to state that the war was a mistake, and it won't do to kick them out or stab them in the back--the platform ought to be inclusive. This article does NOT show anyone advocating the shutting up of activists, it only keeps the platform from being used as a weapon on unabashedly pro-war Democrats.

[madfloridian]

71. That is wrong to "protect" the ones who voted. They should be truthful.

The ones who were for the war need to stand up and be honest about why they voted for the war.

You say we don't want to "stab them in the back....be inclusive". I think you are just wrong on that.

There is a time for truth and accountability. This is it.

[jpgray]

73. So lose the chance for a majority in Congress by going on a witch-hunt?

I still don't understand what you are advocating here. If we are to kick out everyone in the party who still denies that the war is a mistake, the GOP gets the whole kit and kaboodle in a few months. What does that serve, our sense of moral purity?

[madfloridian]

76. Where in hell did you get "witch-hunt" from what I said? Advocating truth

I used none of those words. I am disillusioned. I feel as though I am held captive by my party. I can't vote Republican, which I have done in the past....I can't vote for Nader.

I am disillusioned. I did not advocate anything. You are just making the suggestions yourself....not me.

[jpgray]

83. "The ones who were for the war need to stand up and be honest"

That's the problem--they will say they ARE being honest, and therefore the Democratic party platform is dishonest. What then? Do you say in the party's platform that many of its own candidates are dishonest about Iraq? I don't think that is an acceptable platform. Please say what you would like the platform to say, because you aren't being very clear on that point. Do you want it to indicate that many of our congresspeople are dishonest? I believe we're back to the witch-hunt.

[madfloridian]

84. Twist and turn. Interpretation is everything.

.

[sangh0]

103. You'r enot the only one who gets to interpret

and, as your respondent has tried to point out, politicians are not going to behave the way you order them to.

[Dhalgren]

126. I think what is being said is this:

The leaders of the party had to say whether or not the war was the "right" thing to do. They are going to side with the part of the Democratic Party that is not very loyal. The center and right of the party will readily vote republican if they are discomforted by the democrats (this is essentially the idea behind the statement that the party must be "inclusive"). The left of the party has already made the committment to boot Bush at all costs - so the left can be taken for granted and ignored from here on out. This is what the "leadership" decision meant. This is, in the long term, very harmful for the party. I don't have a problem with it, myself, because I no longer pretend to be a Democrat. I will vote for Kerry in Nov., because Caligula must be removed, but I will never vote Democratic again.

[Terry_M]

72. And the next step is...

Replace the platform with: We have no positive or negative opinion on any issue. This way, no one is offended, and everyons is included!

[jpgray]

74. No, but the platform should apply to as many of our candidates as possible

A provision that clearly states the Iraq war is a mistake would not do this, no matter how objectively right it would be.

[madfloridian]

77. I believe it would.

I truly believe that now the people want the truth, not politically expedient. I really believe that.

[jpgray]

81. The people do, but some candidates don't

That's one of the weird situations with a diverse national party--the Republicans are much more unified in terms of ideology than we are, and moreover are able to get their message out unmuddied and without problems. If you watched Harman when she appeared on Crossfire, she still stood up for the WMD intelligence, saying that they were clearly there to be found! Carville looked at her like she was crazy, and it totally undercut his arguments. This is the problem we have to deal with--the Democratic platform has to apply to her as well as to Kucinich, and this means neither will be at all happy with it.

[madfloridian]

85. Then he was not prepared. She should be told the truth.

There were so many avenues he could have used to answer her.

[lastliberalintexas]

110. No, it just wouldn't cover our presidential ticket

The majority of Dems in the House voted against the IWR (126 of 208) and a sizeable number of Dems in the Seante voted against the measure (21 of 50).


But hey, let's be all inclusive and try to cover as many Dems as possible. We can take out that plank about supporting reproductive rights, workers' rights, environmental protections...

After all, we wouldn't want to exclude anyone.

[sleipnir]

79. WTF? Is Zell Miller writing our platform now?

Same old shit from the corporate DLC whores that have become a cancer on the party.

Sure, a platform is a pretty worthless document, but it's also a great moral and ethical stand to denounce the war and Bush. But, hey, when have our current crop of Dems ever tried to question Bush and his Cabal? Oh wait, they never have.

Same old shit, new people.

Damn, it's getting harder and harder each day to bring myself to vote for Kerry/Edwards....I'm about at my breaking point.

[demoman123]

82. Kerry is not going to get the US out of Iraq.

If you vote for Kerry, do it for some other reason, e.g., that you like his a**hole health care plan. Don't do it because of Iraq. There is no difference between him and Bush on this issue.

From the article: "Kerry advisers said the platform reflected the Massachusetts senator's long-standing position on Iraq. Kerry has said he would repair America's international alliances and build a genuine multinational coalition to secure Iraq."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-4297365,00.html

[IndianaGreen]

88. Kerry wants to "stay the course" in Iraq

which is code word for quagmire for years to come.

Kerry's pathetic embrace of the Bush-Sharon policy for the Middle East is perhaps his biggest moral failing!

[hansolsen]

94. Yup. N/T

[truthspeaker]

89. Misguided cowards

This could be a winning strategy, but I guess someone wants to play it "safe".

[Carolab]

104. Hey, Freddie

Think you had better bone up on what REALLY happened before Iowa.

This article is from Counterpunch and written by Joshua Frank.

"Howard Dean's Titanic campaign began to gain momentum shortly after Al Gore endorsed Dean for president on December 9, 2003. Hailed by many as a huge boost to Dean's bid, the endorsement, came at the same exact moment Democratic insiders were meeting to discuss how to sink Dean's advances."

For more of the article:

http://www.counterpunch.org/frank07082004.html

More of the same from the Center for Public Integrity: "Political Mugging in America".

http://www.publicintegrity.org/report.aspx?aid=194&sid=200

[Freddie Stubbs]

123. So they exposed some embarassing things about Dean

No laws were broken.

[wyethwire]

115. has Kucinich endorsed Kerry yet? n/t

[Dhalgren]

120. I have a question regarding this issue that seems to be glossed

over all the time. Here it is:

Is Kerry, personally, really in support of the Iraqi invasion? Or is he lying in order to fool centrists into voting for him, instead of for Bush? It is either one or the other, as far as I can see.

[CWebster]

121. That's the gamble

It would be preferrable if Kerry would speak the truth, but so many have been unindated with propaganda, the truth may be too scary.

Are they coddled for votes? Sooner or later, illusions fade and the gossamer fairy tale is burned off by the harsh glare of reality. Sooner or later, Kerry will have to deal with it.

[Dhalgren]

122. Every time I object to one or another

of Kerry's right-wing comments or positions, I am told to just "sit tight" and don't rock the boat. Because Kerry doesn't really mean what he is saying - he is only "running to the middle" in order to be elected. After Nov., Kerry will turn around and be the most liberal thing anyone has ever seen! Well, I really would like to see this country governed more from the left, but I am not sure that lying about it is the way to go. I would really like someone who is more familiar with Kerry's ideas and issues to address this. Just how conservative has Kerry become? Is he lying?

[CWebster]

125. He has been adopting more centrist positions

Some accounts attribute it to political pandering or an attempt to differentiate himself from Kennedy and pull away from being branded as Boston liberal elete. At the time the strategy was devised it might have been felt that the country was too conservative or suffering from nationalistic hubris. It would be preferrable had Kerry flown the Democratic banner with pride, but the Right was dominating the consensus and the Democratic party has been increasingly weakened and ineffectual in warding off the Right due to their pattern short-sighted centrist strategies. It may take more than this election cycle to reverse course. But reversing course is more than the Democrats winning in name only. The Democrats must reverse course as well.

[leesa]

124. Mistake. Of course, how can they now explain their willfull

blindness about the facts of Iraq?

[mmonk]

127. Dems sowing the tide

of inevitable defeat again.