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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 08:00 AM
Original message
NEWSWEEK: 'The Dots Never Existed'
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5412317/site/newsweek/


<snip>
July 19 issue - The more he read, the more uneasy he became. In early February 2003 Colin Powell was putting the finishing touches on his speech to the United Nations spelling out the case for war in Iraq. Across the Potomac River, a Pentagon intelligence analyst going over the facts in the speech was alarmed at how shaky that case was. Powell's presentation relied heavily on the claims of one especially dubious Iraqi defector, dubbed "Curve Ball" inside the intel community. A self-proclaimed chemical engineer who was the brother of a top aide to Iraqi National Congress chief Ahmad Chalabi, Curve Ball had told the German intelligence service that Iraq had a fleet of seven mobile labs used to manufacture deadly biological weapons. But nobody inside the U.S. government had ever actually spoken to the informant—except the Pentagon analyst, who concluded the man was an alcoholic and utterly useless as a source. He recalled that Curve Ball had shown up for their only meeting nursing a "terrible hangover."


After reading Powell's speech, the analyst decided he had to speak up, according to a devastating report from the Senate intelligence committee, released last week, on intelligence failures leading up to the Iraq war. He wrote an urgent e-mail to a top CIA official warning that there were even questions about whether Curve Ball "was who he said he was." Could Powell really rely on such an informant as the "backbone" for the U.S. government's claims that Iraq had a continuing biological-weapons program? The CIA official quickly responded: "Let's keep in mind the fact that this war's going to happen regardless of what Curve Ball said or didn't say," he wrote. "The Powers That Be probably aren't terribly interested in whether Curve Ball knows what he's talking about."

The saga of Curve Ball is just one of many wince-inducing moments to be found in the 500-page Senate report, which lays out how the U.S. intelligence community utterly failed to accurately assess the state of Saddam Hussein's programs for weapons of mass destruction—and how White House and Pentagon officials, intent on taking the country to war, unquestioningly embraced the flawed conclusions. In startling detail, the bipartisan report concludes that the CIA and other agencies consistently "overstated" the evidence that Iraq possessed chemical and biological weapons, and was actively reconstituting its nuclear-weapons program. Hampered by a "group think" dynamic that caused them to view all Iraqi actions in the harshest possible light, the committee found, U.S. intelligence officials repeatedly embellished fragmentary and ambiguous pieces of evidence, making the danger posed by Iraq appear far more urgent than it actually was.

When U.N. inspectors returned to Iraq in the fall of 2002 and reported that they couldn't find any Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, for instance, the CIA dismissed the inspectors as gullible neophytes who were being tricked by deceitful Iraqi handlers. Similarly, when several Iraqi officials and scientists stepped forward to claim that Saddam had actually destroyed his WMD stockpiles and discontinued his programs (a claim that appears increasingly likely to have been the truth), they were branded as liars—while dubious sources like Curve Ball, whose stories were in step with the administration, were embraced.

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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
1. The Old Phrase "Believe What You Want, Disregard The Rest" Is In Play Here
eom
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. But why?
Because the CIA was eager to go to war with Iraq? I don't think so. Bush got his war and he can continue to pass the buck on it-- Maddening!
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. The Phrase Was Meant To Highlight * And Company Thinking Not The CIA
eom
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. I understood what you were saying
I was being rhetorical. Hard to translate how you mean things on the internet.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
2. Incredibly damning information for Shrubco...
The CIA official quickly responded: "Let's keep in mind the fact that this war's going to happen regardless of what Curve Ball said or didn't say," he wrote. "The Powers That Be probably aren't terribly interested in whether Curve Ball knows what he's talking about."
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. Sources from yesterday indicated that the "CIA official" making....
...that statement was the "deputy director of the Iraq Group". That person wasn't even the director of that group, let alone someone that could have made that kind of decision. IMHO, that group was heavily influenced by the thinking/direction of the NeoCons in the White House and Pentagon.

Yes, I agree..."incredibly damning information for Shrubco".
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hansolsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #7
28. Who is it? I want to know the name, rank and serial number of this SOB
I just want to talk to him.
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
4. shall I bring popcorn?
The committee report may be just the beginning of the president's political troubles this month. Next up is the long-awaited 9-11 Commission report, which is expected to be highly critical of administration agencies for failing to "connect the dots" that might have prevented the terror attacks. NEWSWEEK has learned that the commission has decided to release its findings next week, so they don't coincide with the Democratic Party convention in Boston at the end of the month. Commission officials say they don't want their work to get caught up in the politics of the presidential campaign. It was a nice thought, anyway.
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quaoar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
5. This is probably the 978th story
That clearly demonstrates how the Bush Administration lied and/or misled America about Iraq.
And yet, half of America still supports him.
I am beginning to think that it wouldn't matter if a videotape surfaced with Bush admitting he lied about Iraq. He'd just say it was a joke or that the media made it all up and people would believe him.
There is no shortage of information in the media to show that Bush is incompetent, corrupt and immoral. There is, however, a shortage of people willing to believe it.
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dbt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #5
16. Well said, quaoar
Welcome to DU!

:beer:
dbt
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hansolsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
29. Let's see, who do I despise the most?
Edited on Sun Jul-11-04 10:01 PM by hansolsen
First let's acknowledge that maybe one Repub out of ten is starting to turn on Bush, and that is good.

Of the rest, I'd say about 4 out of 10, know Bush has been lying through his teeth about WMD, outed Valerie Plame, authorized torture, and all the rest, and are going to vote for Bush anyway. They agree with doing all those things, and would do them again. You gotta admire their conviction, if not their moral and ethical values.

Then there are the remaining 5 out of ten Repubs. They think Shrub is a saint, the second coming, can do no wrong, and is being falsly accused of all these high crimes and misdemeanors. This bunch is deaf, dumb and blind. They cannot see the dark side of George Bush. I don't know whether to feel sorry for them, or want to beat them with a stick to get their attention. In any case, I wouldn't want to live inside their heads. That would be Hell.
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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
6. Internal War

We are witnessing a war between the intelligence community and the Bush administration. In the short-term, this will help the Democratic party generally and Kerry specifically.

Long-term, however, I worry about the consequences. How much of this sticks either to the White House or the CIA may well determine this nation's ability to effectively defend itself against its real enemies, not the imaginary ones ShrubCo has concocted for us.

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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. IMHO, I think the war is actually between one side consisting..
...of the CIA, DIA, senior military officers that have blasted Rummy, a strong faction of the FBI/DoJ, a solid block of Democrats in Congress (who, despite lacking political power are proving to be a thorn in the NeoCons' side), and a growing segment of the media (controlled by the CIA via Operation Mockingbird)...,

versus

...the other side consisting of the NeoCons that are currently in positions of power in the Pentagon (to include the OSP), Congress (like this recent GOP-controlled committee that seems determined to withhold information damaging to the NeoCons in the White House), the media (that segment still under NeoCon control), and the White House.

The CIA has been taking a beating lately, but my money is on the CIA and its allies to put the blame squarely where it belongs...on the NeoCons.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #9
19. With the exception of OSP, those agencies are not monolithic.
"Compartmentalization" is the holy grail of intelligence, and it extends to the very ideologies embedded within the NSA (which we're hearing very little of), CIA, and DIA. The most evident division within the CIA is between the operational (field agents and operatives) and analytical. When Cheney "visited" the CIA 9-10 times, it's fairly obvious he was deliberately tweaking the relative 'merits' of raw intelligence, particularly in favor of the disinformation being generated by INC/Chalabi people who were in an unholy alliance with OSP and the PNAC crowd (which exists in the other agencies as well). Consistent with Cheney's objective in 'tweaking' the relative merits of raw intelligence, Cheney and his criminal cabal outed Valerie Plame. This was a retaliatory move, and retaliation is the favored response of the neofascist regime. These people have been terminating careers of hundreds if not thousands of people within the federal government who didn't "get with the program." Ideological compliance is more important to the Busholini Regime than it was to the Stalinist Regime. These people are some of the most corrupt that Amerika has to offer.
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #19
30. What relative merits?
This is the first time I'd heard that was what Cheney was doing. And if it is true (and it sounds like something Cheney would actually do)...well, you gotta be shittin' me, Joker.

Raw intelligence is fucking worthless.

Some of you may be wondering just what raw intelligence is. It is the take directly from the source, with no processing or analysis.

Let's assume that you're sitting on a hill watching a police motor pool through a pair of binoculars. Every time a police car goes in or out, you report it. That's raw traffic on the activities of the police.

Every day at 10:30, AM and PM, fifty police cars leave the motor pool at a reasonable rate of speed. Every day between 11:00 and 11:15, fifty police cars return to the motor pool. Hand Dick Cheney a piece of "raw" intelligence that says fifty cop cars pulled out of the motor pool at 10:30 this morning and he's going to look for riots, murders, mass rapes or whatever. An analyst who knows trending will look at this and think "they do shift change every twelve hours at 10:30 and their standard shift consists of fifty cruisers, no big whoop." Unless your reporting instruction says to report every shift change no matter how routine, you'd only report it if they deployed substantially more or substantially fewer cops.
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nodictators Donating Member (977 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. No, this is the CIA following Bush-Cheney demands
Remember also, the public version of the Senate Intelligence Committee report was altered by the Repubs. When the CIA analysts said "maybe" there were WMD, the "maybe" was removed, leaving a seemingly catagorical statement that Iraq had WMD.

Cheney visited the CIA analysts on at least 10 different occasions.

Reread PNAC's "Rebuilding America's Defenses."
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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. I disagree, in part...

You said it yourself. The CIA said "maybe," and the Repubs effectively changed that maybe into a "definitely."

I agree that part of the intelligence community is lock-stepping behind BushCo, but not all or even most of it.

There is a war going on here. It's not being openly discussed in the mainstream media, but what else is new. Little stories here and there, the analysis of some editorialists, internal memos that have been leaked and comments from current and former intelligence officials point directly to a battle taking place between various factions.

I think "Media_Lies" offered a better take on it than I did. Those comments were what I was getting at; I just didn't have the right words for it.

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pop goes the weasel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
10. It's the legacy of "the China hands" affair
When the State Department's experts on East Asia, the "China Hands," presented Truman with the news that Mao's contol over China had a popular base, they were fired as subversives for providing evidence that disagreed with the Truman Doctrine's assumptions about the origin of Communist governing power. The clear lesson was that people who want to keep their jobs don't tell a president the truth; they tell him what he wants to hear. The legacy of the China Hands affair, then was Vietnam, and its legacy now is the Iraqi War.
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
11. The Senate report is very misleading
because it doesn't discuss the OSP. The story is that the OSP was created because Cheney, et al did not like what the CIA was telling them about no WMD's. The Senate report, in fact, is a smoke screen.
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
13. related article: Powell's WMD speech 'based on lies'
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/07/11/1089484242583.html?oneclick=true

The day before the US Secretary of State, Colin Powell, delivered his critical speech to the United Nations saying Iraq possessed mobile biological weapons laboratories, a US intelligence agent warned the CIA that the evidence had come from an Iraqi defector called Curve Ball who was unreliable and possibly an alcoholic.

Despite that warning, the CIA did not change Powell's speech, which was designed to persuade the UN Security Council to vote in favour of the invasion of Iraq in February last year. The CIA Iraq officer who received the warning placated his colleague in an email before Powell spoke.

"Let's keep in mind, the war's going to happen regardless of what Curve Ball said or didn't say and the Powers That Be probably aren't interested in whether Curve Ball knows what he's talking about. However, in the interest of Truth, we owe somebody a sentence or two of warning, if you honestly have reservations," he wrote.

Powell's speech went ahead with the false information from Curve Ball that Iraq had developed mobile biological weapons laboratories.

Powell told the Security Council: "One of the most worrisome things that emerges from the thick intelligence file we have on Iraq's biological weapons is the existence of mobile production facilities used to make biological agents. Let me take you inside that intelligence file and share with you what we know from eyewitness accounts. We have first-hand descriptions of biological weapons factories on wheels and on rails".

...more...
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1monster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. Let's not forget that Powell himself thought the information he presented
was bogus, but he went ahead and presented it to the UN anyway. Doesn't seem like anyone's hands are clean.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
15. facts are bothersome things
aren't they?

Looks like se may be seeing more bothersome facts coming out of the corporate media. A sure sign the powers that be in the reich-wing are ready to dump Team Bush.

Julie
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
20. We Need A Massive AA Program in This Government
This amounts to criminal stupidity--high crimes and misdemeanors.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
21. cool kick!
This thread made the homepage! :)
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
22. We've got a bunch of lovely coconuts.....
Edited on Sun Jul-11-04 05:09 PM by 0007
"Intelligence officials repeatedly embellished fragmentary and ambiguous pieces of evidence, making the danger posed by Iraq appear far more urgent than it actually was.

When U.N. inspectors returned to Iraq in the fall of 2002 and reported that they couldn't find any Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, for instance, the CIA dismissed the inspectors as gullible neophytes who were being tricked by deceitful Iraqi handlers. Similarly, when several Iraqi officials and scientists stepped forward to claim that Saddam had actually destroyed his WMD stockpiles and discontinued his programs (a claim that appears increasingly likely to have been the truth), they were branded as liars—while dubious sources like Curve Ball, whose stories were in step with the administration, were embraced.

The committee report may be just the beginning of the president's political troubles this month. Next up is the long-awaited 9-11 Commission report, which is expected to be highly critical of administration agencies for failing to "connect the dots" that might have prevented the terror attacks."
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DrBB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
23. Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrongity wrong wrong wrong
The saga of Curve Ball is just one of many wince-inducing moments to be found in the 500-page Senate report, which lays out how the U.S. intelligence community utterly failed to accurately assess the state of Saddam Hussein's programs for weapons of mass destruction—and how White House and Pentagon officials, intent on taking the country to war, unquestioningly embraced the flawed conclusions.

Urp. Nope, sorry. Oh sure, there was the CIA just pumping out this stuff, all on their own, by the boxcar load and the Asterisk Administration's only fault was not being sufficiently critical on their own. But who could blame 'em, poor darlings. They're not the intel specialists after all.

That the current Media Heatherette take, hm?

Well, it doesn't wash. How far can you push the spin against the facts reported in your own story? That's the only real question here. Cuz what this really is, little Heatherette, is the story of how honest intelligence analysis was repressed, stymied, undercut and otherwise ignored by the administration. Yes, obviously there were suck-ups inside the CIA who knew too well what side their bread was buttered on. But let's trace our little arcs all the way out to the end, hm? "Bush NEVER woulda gone to war if that darn CIA hadn't MADE him do it!" Is that the little Heatherette line you're clinging to? Nice try, my blow-dried darlin, but the country isn't as dumb as you are.
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Anyone even remotely connected to Chalabi was red-exed by the CIA...
...so Curve Ball must be a WHIG/OSP "asset." To put the blame on the CIA for any disinfo from the Iraqi National Congress is just plain wrong...
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90-percent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. chalibi
How come this guy isn't being tried for numerous crimes against humanity in the World Court?

how come after all he did he's still a free man? Gitmo is pretty damn Unamerican but if anybody should be there it should be this guy!

85%
(new nitro rule)
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. how come he is still a free man?
well let us look at just who his friends are...there is the answer!

Welcome to DU!
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-11-04 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
27. BOWEL NEEDED AN ENEMA TO CLEANSE HIS COLON
LOL

He need more than that to wipe the sorry ass smile off his face

WHAT A PATHETIC LOSER.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-12-04 03:06 AM
Response to Original message
31. Duh! Whatever happened to "trust but verify'?
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