Mormon conversions surge in Latin America

[dArKeR]

By Leonor Ayala
Reporter
NBC News


GUATEMALA CITY, Guatemala - Clutching the Book of Mormon and dressed in a white starched shirt and neatly pressed charcoal colored slacks, Willy Guzman walked across the cracked sidewalks of Zona 6 in Guatemala City to the shiny, white church that rises above the modest and mostly shanty flats of the neighborhood.

As it neared 8:00 a.m. Sunday morning, the streets were bustling with men dressed in Western-style suits and women in skirt suits pushing baby strollers, all making their way towards the church.

“Everyone walks to church,” Guzman explained, “so as not to make anyone work on this day of worship.”

As he approached the Mormon church gates, Guzman was greeted by several church Elders, mostly Americans speaking in heavily accented Spanish. Being the church music director, they inquired about his music selection for the service and what instruments would play accompaniment.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5378318

I had a Mormon roommate for a few years. From knowing him and his friends, I have no respect for the Mormon Church if the people I met are a representative sample of their group. They give me the feeling of the rise of another Nazi army.

[LittleApple81]

1. I had a Mormon boss... Passive aggressive, good looking moron.

I have met other people that fit that description and are not Mormons, but he had this special "flair" that I have seen in other Mormons. This is bigotted and prejudiced... I know... because I have a very small sample (I know around 10 Mormons) But that is the image I get when you say Mormon.

I like some aspects of the Mormon culture (mutual help, healthy living...) but they are very prejudiced and dominating.
And women... and gays.... hmmmmm

[gatlingforme]

2. Mormons are missionaries. They are required to go to other

countries and tell people what to believe. Usually, it's people in
need of assistance of some kind.

[joeybee12]

4. They show up a lot in Eastern Europe--certainly not handing out

food, but simply trying to convert.

I have a problem with all religions that prostelytize (or however that damn word is spelled).

[gatlingforme]

8. Mormons love money too. All that tithing gives them goosebumps

[catzies]

30. How much faith-based funding do you suppose * will give them?

Talk about goosebumps.

[Teaser]

11. So you have a problem with religions that proselytize

that should concern the adherents of said religions?

[dArKeR]

9. The Mormons I see overseas use 'counting clickers' to count the number

of people they hit up on the streets. Talk about sincerity in helping people?

[gatlingforme]

10. Yes, they are sincerely counting their MONEY too. LOL

[demoman123]

13. For a different take on Mormon missionaries, see this movie:

"God's Army"

Cast: Richard Dutcher, Lance Johnson, Scott Sandler

Director: Richard Dutcher
Categories: Drama
Running Time: 117 minutes


Synopsis

Richard Dutcher writes, produces, directs, and stars in this fish-out-of-water religious drama about Mormons pounding the streets of Hollywood, looking to save a couple of souls. A small town elder journeys to the big city and joins a missionary group led by the gruff Marcus Dalton (Dutcher). Together, they go door-to-door trying to convert people to their faith, Mormonism. Just when he's about to hang up his necktie and starched white shirt, he learns of the hardships that the others have endured -- Marcus has cancer, Banks, an African-American Mormon, was disowned by his family, and others have been harassed by nefarious anti-Mormon intellectuals. Soon, the young man learns that the first person he needs to convert is himself. ~ Jonathan Crow, All Movie Guide

http://www.blockbuster.com/bb/movie/details/0,7286,VID-V+++201748,00.html?

[rooboy]

37. I could swear I saw a movie (comedy) once...

about a mormon guy who ended up knocking on the door of a porn movie producer. Soon after the missionary becomes the newest star in the movies... it was a very funny flick.

[ReaderSushi]

41. Hilarious!

The movie is titled "Orgazmo"
Jesus and I love you! lol

[mallard]

43. They recruit for their cult...

...with the open blessings of many an uninformed gov't.

They're not civilians. They recruit and program their minion for the right wing cut.

They approach strangers who know little of where early 'invitations' and offers of free English lessons may land them.

They are all too young to know what they're doing.

They are programmed to support the war and provide a large pool of 'reliable' gov't staffers, officers and agents.

They go door-to-door insisting on participation by total strangers.

They cause huge intra-family feuds over dissing of the ancestral religion(s) which newcomers are required to completely dump.

They recruit the elderly to acquire assets upon death of recruit.

They are not open-minded nor politically conversant.

They travel in pairs on bicycle - with uniform dress (female color arrangements may vary) and are strictly forbidden from travel - even just to go buy an apple - alone.


They are Americans! They represent a deceptive facade of our traditional values. This is a politically active cult by definition, non?

[noonwitch]

3. At least the Mormons always sent nice-looking young men to my door

I give them credit for that.

Their faith is interesting, that's for sure. I read a book written by a female Mormon that was about art and faith that I really enjoyed, but I forgot the writer's name and the book title. I also read part of the Book of Mormon while staying in a hotel once-it's a trip.

[joeybee12]

5. Yeah, they're so well-scrubbed and wholesome looking....

...all that clean living.

[cspiguy]

6. they believe the Aztecs and Mayas etc. were in their bible

no wonder it plays to the chiapistas.

[gatlingforme]

7. They also have an aversion to 99% of the population. n/t

[Momgonepostal]

12. Please don't make such sweeping generalizations

I'm sorry if you've had the misfortune of knowing some obnoxious Mormons. Still, it doesn't make the whole lot bad.

[gatlingforme]

17. Yes, and I would love to see more Mormons accepting more

people in their congregation. I have not seen many stats on African American, Woman, Gays, persons with disabilities, mentally disabled, unfortunate people, etc... representing the Mormons,... UNTIL I DO I AM NOT GENERALIZING !!!!!!!!!! Okay?

[Momgonepostal]

21. How is saying Mormons have an aversion to 99%

of the population NOT generalizing?

I'm a Mormon and I certainly don't have an aversion to people who are different than I am. I object to your implication that I do.

I'll admit you can make a great case about the institution of the church not being gay friendly, and that's unfortunate. I don't get the whole anti-gay marriage position. But what do you mean by "representing the Mormons?" I've known people in the church from all the groups you listed above.

Oh, and I'm female and served a mission for the church. During that time I was "representing the Mormons."

[gatlingforme]

44. I am glad you can participate in your own religion, you must be

an exception, along with your friends. I stand by what I said. I can also say that about other religions as well, most notably the Catholic religion, which is just as exclusionary. IMHO.

[Momgonepostal]

46. So you say Catholics have an aversion to 99%

of the population, too?

Please do email John Kerry with your thoughts.

[gatlingforme]

47. IMHO, that is what I believe, please tell Bush your thoughts, he

might like them and you can become part of the "Faith based initiative"

[Chovexani]

23. There's a reason you dont see black Mormons

There's that embarrassing little church teaching about the curse of Ham, and the fact that blacks were barred from the priesthood up until the 70s. Here's a decent summary from a fairly neutral (read: non-evangelical fundie) source: http://www.religioustolerance.org/lds_race.htm

Of course, the only color the LDS sees is green, and black folks are doing alright for themselves these days, so they have backpedaled from those old sentiments somewhat. I had a couple of very cute but slightly creepy Mormon boys come to my door a few months ago, and my neighborhood is mostly West Indians.

'Course, I was looking like Lady Blacula (as usual) when I opened the door and they kinda figured I wouldn't be interested. I wonder why. :evilgrin:

[mitchtv]

14. 2 cute ones came to my door, recently

I told them to keep moving.

[Bo]

15. Its because of money.....

When I worked in the jungle of Peru Mormons were everywhere and usually had a easy time of converting because of promises of loans and free food.

[Betty The Younger]

16. The mormons were the first to spout 'family values'

I think it was back in the late 80's with comercials. They have infected the federal, state, local governments and are a huge cult. I find it ironic that based on their logic we are a Christian nation.

[Aidoneus]

18. conversions among the living or dead?

just askin'..

I don't think re-baptizing Hitler or Somoza counts as a "conversion".

[Redleg]

19. Most of my father's side of the family are Mormon.

I used to live in Utah. Most Mormons I knew were friendly folks (this helps with their proselytizing) but most were very conservative politically and wouldn't vote for a Democrat if their life depended on it.

Many of them I knew well were very intolerant of homosexuals, ethnic minorities, liberals, and other religions, especially Catholicism. Many of them didn't want their wives working but instead wanted them home barefoot and pregnant.

This is not meant as a rant against Mormons. I do not wish to stereotype any of them. I had several close relationships with my Mormon colleagues and respect them very much.

I suppose to me, many Mormons remind me of the conservatives that we tend to disagree with and sometimes dislike at DU.

[Momgonepostal]

22. for the record, I've known LDS people like that too

Thankfully the majority of the church is not like that.

When you get out of Utah, you find the members of the church tend to be more moderate. I've seen lots of Demo/left wing bumper stickers on cars at the Oakland, CA temple parking lot.

I have just two kids (and am done), I work outside the home, might vote for a conservative if my life depended on it and the democratic challenger were a convicted pedophile, have a wide variety of relatives of various ethnicities, religions, and sexual preferences. I love them all. (although I have a republican sister who sometimes needs a swift kick in the rear)

[phantom power]

20. here's what I wonder:

who *are* the people who, upon seeing a couple clean-cut evangelicals at their door, hear about this (formerly) obscure sect of christianity and say "Wow! suddently it's all clear to me! How can I become a Mormon?"

Which brings up another question: what's their hit-rate. For every thousand people they visit, how many do they convert?

[iverglas]

24. a friend in Colombia was just telling me about this

Actually, about a particular element of this.

My friend is Canadian, and works with human rights organizations in Colombia.

She was talking about how so many of those organizations have evidently been co-opted recently. They have ceased to stand up to the government. There are numerous factors: pressure from the EU to denounce the violence used by some factions of the pro-people movement, possible actual buy-offs, etc.

The result is that the discourse about rights and rights violations has degenerated from principled analysis of the problems, and identification of the oppressors, to the acceptance of a sort of moral equivalency between what is done by (or with the tolerance of) the government and what is done by people genuinely struggling for rights and freedoms for the victims of those official/tolerated acts and policies.

She pointed out that the only agency that can be counted on to remain true to those princples is the RC church, or perhaps more accurately, individual representatives of the RC church. In particular, Franciscan priests teaching in schools and universities will convey a social justice message to their students, some of whom, even the wealthy and privileged kiddies who are completely insulated by their families' wealth and privilege from the problems in their society, will "get it".

And if you manage to get rid of one of those priests or other church-affiliated workers, say by ensuring that s/he receives death threats, there'll just be another one coming along to take the place.

So what's happening? Rich Colombians are sending their kids to private schools owned and staffed by Mormons. In those classrooms, the US flag is right up there at the front of the room.

And you can bet there is no babbling about liberation theology or the social gospel in those classrooms.

USAmerican Mormons, handmaidens of the exploiters and oppressors, caterers to the rich and privileged. What a surprise.

[bobbieinok]

25. Mormons and pentecostals/charismatics doing major mission

work in south america and africa

a very large number of countries on these 2 continents now have leaders who are pentecostals

[UTUSN]

26. They Preach that New World Indigenous Are Lost Tribe of Israel

********“They make the effort to learn the language and culture of the people they want to reach and this method of evangelizing really works.” *********END QUOTE from the article.

There was a Mormon bishop teaching at my high shool. He was specifically assigned to the Spanish classes and sponsored the folk singing/dancing. One of the tenets was that New World indigenous people were one of the tribes of Israel. They are excellent at the soft sell, infiltrating by means of being culturally hands-on, the way the Romans and the Catholic church absorbed the cultures and other feast days and other god figures. The service they provide are appealing-------the great choir and music, the heartfelt family commercials on t.v., genealogical research----things that APPEAL.

[clown]

27. Quetzalcoatl

When I was doing research for a project, I found that the Mormons are very big on the Aztec god Quetzalcoatl because they believe he was an incarnate of Jesus. I thought that was interesting, and I suppose that is one of the Mormons' major selling points. As an aside, Ken Jennings, the guy who has won 30 days straight on Jeopardy! accruing $1.4 Million in the process, is a Mormon.

[clown]

28. correction

Jennings hasn't won $1.4 million, he has won $1,004,000

[minkyboodle]

29. LOL I wasn't aware that Jesus was a plumed serpent!

The white skin thing came after the Spaniards due to their interpretations of Mayan ideas... Ken Jennings on the other hand may be Jesus. His jeopardy skills are definitely not from this world :)

[gate of the sun]

31. let's talk nicey nice about the mormans OK?

Let me tell you a story about MOrmans......A friend of mine lived in Provo Utah....he used to be my boyfiend in high school.....I went to visit him, I am and was a girl he a guy...... He owned this condo and I was staying there and 2 other guys rented rooms.....I was outside one day and I saw the police approaching...billy clubs in hand....I was out of there. Anyway some cultivation of pot was going on very small amount and the guys all had their pot.....I did not...No one was arrested except my friend....for cultivation.....anyway. A couple weeks later the cops came and arrested me..saying they saw me their.....before I ran out....that ajoint was smoldering in the ashtray(LIE) and I could have been the only one smoking it. etc......and I was arrested for possession.....Anyway on the way to the station I confronted them about the lie there was no "joint"....I did not smoke at the time......and I asked them why they were lying and weren't they mormans etc......and they told me it was a moral issue.....I was living in the house with 3 men..Oh My..

that's what happened to me....I'm not real fond of mormans...

this was 23 years ago.

[hedgetrimmer]

32. Those Mormon Cops Got the "Mormon Law Going Down"...

I anin't fool'n, my brother got arressted for walking down the street... "Hey, Officer Smith looks like we've gotta another one'd never fit in." .... "I think you're right Officer Bringham lets get'em off the streets before this thing spreads." .... Mormon Law... a living handmaids tale, but ain't no tale that sh*t's true.

[Swamp Rat]

33. I lived in Salt Lake City for three years... I cannot say enough bad

things about that cult. Moving back to New Orleans was like going back to Paradise. I got in a fight with an "elder" duo in Costa Rica when they were proselytizing in a post office, pissing off all the Ticos. Last year when I lived in Brasil I chased two of 'em down the street a few blocks, but they were about half my age and got away. Another duo was on my front porch last week, but this time I was nice and told them that I didn't "want to purchase any." Though confused, they left unscathed. It is possible though, if ever I meet another duo in the Amazon when I move back, I might make a meal of 'em with some of my Yanomami friends.

[Pachamama]

34. The Mormon Girls are tasty Swamp Rodent!

Ask my Dad....When he decided to take a year off during his Junior year at Yale circa 1960? he traveled out to Salt Lake City and Park City to be a ski bum for a year....had the time of his life...said the Mormon men were a bore and kept proselytizing....the girls on the other hand - well, lets just say they were tired of their Mormon men and their proselytizing....My Dad says it was one of the best years of his life.... :kick:

[Swamp Rat]

35. Tell your dad I know ALL about Mormon girls.

He'll know what I mean. The girls there really liked me... I suppose that silly movie with Kevin Bacon is kinda true.

[Pachamama]

36. I knew you did....hee hee...n/t

[rooboy]

38. Dick Cheney's a mormon...

he saw the evidence of links between Iraq and Al Qaeda on some gold tablets that nobody else has been able to see.

[Solon]

39. My view of the Church is very dim...

While I am not Mormon myself, my best friend was, she did not leave the church, it rejected her. Due to the teachings of the oh so glorious Church hierarchy she thought her life was worthless because she was homosexual. She was she almost committed suicide, to the point that she had the knife in her hands, looking at it, ready to slit her wrists. I thank the Gods every day that she chose the right path, or we would never have met. Even then, years later, she could barely open up to anyone, has an explosive temper, and can get depressed too easily. I try to help, as much as I can, and support her as much as I can.

It took me over a year to convince her that the church she was raised in was WRONG, dead wrong. She is getting better, and now she is engaged to the woman she loves, and I am glad that she has finally found happiness without guilt. I just wish that her parents would accept her for who she is, and not let their own preconceptions get in the way. She seems to be breaking through to her mother, but her father is a VERY religious Mormon and very bigoted.

[bobbyboucher]

40. Are Mormons insane?

Just curious. Cause I think they are preachin' some pretty ridiculous shit.

Anyone know the story? Besides the Angel Moroni appearing to Joe Smith bullshit. What else do they got?

They should be taxed on all their business adventures, cause this whole "Latter Day" stuff is a bunch of hooey. They been takin' profits for years under the guise of religion.

A bunch of docile sheep if you ask me, and I've been to Orem.

[ronabop]

45. Insane? As compared to what?

Virgin birth?

Trinity?

Resurrection from the dead?

"Saints" performing "miracles"?

Once you start calling out religions for believing whacky shit, you have to call 'em all out.

-Bop

[leesa]

50. I'm for calling them all out!

[HereSince1628]

42. So the rate of production of "jackmormons" will surge

Frankly, I am not too worried about this...

Defection rates are very high for LDSs even when they are converting members of the "lost tribe." In a few years Guatemala will have a significant population of normal folks with normal habits who are only mormons in the records of the church.

BTW, once a person's capacity for critical disbelief about the supernatural is overcome _all_ things supernatural become equally possible. In that light mormon beliefs are not stranger or less believable than any other systems. They only seem weird because for most of us our capacity for critical disbelief was supplanted by another system...

[THUNDER HANDS]

48. I can't take Mormans seriously after that South Park episode

I just can't. I still laugh when I think about it.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

52. SEA-Man? Is that you? (nt)

[leesa]

49. I wonder if they KNOW they have converted. The Mormons

also converted dead Jews from concentration camps.

[HereSince1628]

51. Well, technically they only provided the opportunity for redemption...

such is the cultic practice of proxy baptism for the dead...

Someone dresses (undresses depending upon your point of view) for the event and the deceased get to accept or reject it while in a dimension of the afterlife...

My opinion as an ex-mormon is that the only _really_ good mormon is an ex-mormon.

Hey, "No Man Knows My Story," nuf said.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

53. Those uniformed backpacked "Stepford son-in-law" pairs swarm Brazil...

...like a plague of locusts. And that annoys me verily.

[webtrainer]

54. Rural Nicaragua too . . .

out in the middle of nowhere, two young men on bikes, one looked like he was from Utah and the other looked more like a local.

I don't know if the Nicaraguans really go for their brand of religion, but the locals are so terribly poor that I would not be surprised that some conversions could easily be had for a sack of beans and the promise of a pair of shoes.

[midnight armadillo]

55. A friend almost dated a Mormon girl...

...they were a good match, actually. But, since she is Mormon and he is Catholic, there was a problem. Mormons who marry non-Mormons only get to the middling-good heaven, not the really good heaven set aside for Mormon couples. This and other conflicts religion-wise meant it never worked out. Too bad, they would have made each other happy :-(

Details on the heavens:
The lowest heaven is populated by adulterers, murderers, thieves, liars and other evil-doers. These share in a glory and delight impossible to imagine. Their sins have been forgiven, and they now enjoy the eternal presence of the Holy Ghost.

The middle heaven contains the souls and bodies of good non-Mormons and those Mormons who were in some way deficient in their obedience to church commandments. They will glory in the presence of Jesus Christ forever.

The top heaven is reserved for devout Mormons, who go on to become gods and rulers of their own universes. By having their wives and children "sealed" to them during an earthly, temple ceremony, these men-gods will procreate billions of spirits and place them into future, physical bodies. These future children will then worship their father-gods, obeying Mormon commandments, and eventually take their place in the eternal progression to their own godhood.

Source: http://www.catholic.com/library/Distinctive_Beliefs_of_Mormon.asp
Now, granted a Catholic source is hardly unbiased but it's as good a description of the Mormon heavens as any I've seen.