Who star hits out at Michael Moore - NME

[Screaming Lord Byron]

http://www.nme.com/news/109183.htm

Moore, who has just released his new documentary 'Fahrenheit 9/11', wanted to use Townshend's song 'Won't Get Fooled Again' for the release. However, the guitarist refused and now claims that Moore accused him of being in support of the war.

(snip)

"He says that I refused to allow him to use my song 'Won't Get Fooled Again' in his latest film, because I support the war, and that at the last minute I recanted, but he turned me down," he continued. "I have never hidden the fact that at the beginning of the war in Iraq I was a supporter. But now, like millions of others, I am less sure we did the right thing.

(snip)

However, in a statement issued by Moore, he said: "Last year The Who asked me to do a documentary on their career. I was sorry I had to tell them that due to my need to finish 'Fahrenheit 9/11' I would not be able to make their film for them. ... I am sorry I wasn't able to do The Who documentary like they wanted me to, but this is certainly no way for Pete to show his anger, and frankly it is very embarrassing for him to behave in this manner, as he is the greatest rock star who ever lived."

-OK, so Moore might be a bit too abrasive, but Townshend does not come out of this too well. He supported the crusade? I would've expected more from a man as intelligent as Pete.

[Champion Jack]

1. Townsend is EXTREMELY conservative

and an 'alleged' child molester to boot.
"greatest rock star who ever lived" .... bah

[Screaming Lord Byron]

2. Best to use the word 'alleged' there.

Charges were never laid, and lawyers are everywhere.

[tinanator]

3. A child molester?

When? Who?
Can I say youre a child molester with no proof?

[Drifter]

4. Nope ...

A year or 2 ago he got caught with a mess of Child Porn. Claims he was doing research.

I'm sure Micheal Jackson thinks he is doing research also.

Fuck Pete Townsend

Cheers
Drifter

[akitamata]

5. Fairness and truth...

would require you to assert only that Pete Townsend was questioned concerning his credit card usage in connection with a childporn website. This differs somewhat from being found with "a mess of Child Porn". In the UK, had he been caught in possession of said imagery/pornography, his fame would not have done him much good in avoiding a conviction. I reject the insinuation that he is a pedophile/pornographer because of the facts and because such accusations are more often associated with the GOP. Let's not smear, let's strive for some accuracy. We can always do better, so let's give it a shot, agreed?

[nofurylike]

6. arrested, admitted, not charged but warned, registered. google it. n/t

[LeighAnn]

15. He was doing research, dammit

Just like when Bush was in college cavorting with the bodies of dead humans. It was research for being a warmonger.

[takebackthewh]

21. We might also add

that he was molested himself as a child.

[amber dog democrat]

7. If he supported the war - at the beginning

that is enough to discredit him already.
I am not so sure of the child port charges, but i heard about it on NPR.

[kysrsoze]

8. Add to that, the fact that he proclaims himself a woman in a man's body

I'm sorry, but Pete is really messed up these days. Morality aside, he's not all there and his opinion is suspect.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

18. Man, Ol' Pete would make...

One butt-yooglee woman.

[St. Jarvitude]

43. Having child porn makes you a child molester not

It may make you a sick fuck who deserves to rot in the ground, but just because you have pictures doesn't mean you've molested any children.

Would you consider it appropriate to call anyone who saw any of the recent prison torture pictures to be a tormenter?

[onenote]

44. and not having pictures makes you innocent

And in Pete's case, a thorough investigation of multiple computers taken from his home found no evidence of pornographic material. Not that the press bothered to report that with the same enthusiasm they had in reporting the original accusations....

onenote

[Redleg]

69. That is exactly right. The press did a Gary Condit on Townshend.

Sorry bastards.

[Redleg]

68. He was not caught with child porn.

He was nabbed after having purchases access to a site having child porn.

[neuvocat]

13. Townshend was arrested and later released from the police.

If you're still looking for proof someoneone will gladly provide it.

[DS1]

17. If Scott Ritter ever speaks up, it's ~always~

"alleged child molestor Scott Ritter", yet Pete Townshend gets off scot-free because he's probably too dumb to know how to download porn after paying for it.

[dolstein]

26. Townsend "EXTREMELY conservative"??? That's news to me

I wish the person who made this statement would back it up with some facts.

[Gruenemann]

66. His values are easy to determine.

Apparently it's okay to use "Happy Jack" in that deplorable Hummer commercial.

He's always been a wanker--see "Pictures of Lily" and "Mary-Anne with the Shaky Hands."

[Redleg]

67. Where does this "child molester" bullshit come from?

I think you have accusedTownshend of something that no other person has alleged. Get your facts straight.

[SheepyMcSheepster]

9. this pete townsend story is like the ray bradbury story a few weeks ago

it keeps coming up and coming up.

the who is cool and all, but i find townsend to be a self important boob.

[shadu]

10. Townsend is already forgotten

He played in a rock and roll band.
Nothing more.

[Redleg]

70. You are so wrong.

If he was forgotton, why are so many here attacking or defending him?

[johnnie]

11. I still like Pete

He always has been one of my favorites. He is just a little eccentric and messed in the head. Kind of strange to have a fucked-up artist, but it happens.
He usually says things just to say things.
As for the war thing, unfortunately he fell for the lies along with millions of others. Not everyone is as aware of the truth as we are.

[maveric]

27. My 2 favorite members of that band are dead.

Townsend can write but as a guitarist, he's miles away from the great ones.

[johnnie]

28. I'm a writer

So, I think I like him as a writer more than a guitarist. Although I always have been a guitar player also, I am not big on guitars. There are many great players out there.

[joefree1]

12. Poor guy

Cool folk will now keep him at arms length. And there are no cool conservatives to hang out with. Good-bye Pete. Not all wine improves with age, some get bitter.


Seating now available in the Smoking Section:
Politics, humor, death and the Devil - http://www.eDiablo.com

[lovedems]

14. This is the last sentence from Townsend's statement

" But he’ll have to work very, very hard to convince me that a man with a camera is going to change the world more effectively than a man with a guitar. "

http://www.petetownshend.co.uk/diary/display.cfm?id=89&zone=diary


Sorry Pete, Moore's movie did more for me then all of The Who's songs combined.

[sendero]

16. To the tune of a Meow Mix commercial....

.... wahhh wahhh wahh waahh
wahhh wahhh wahh waahh
wahhh wahhh wahh waahh
wahhh wahhh wahh waahh
wahhh wahhh wahh waahh
wahhh wahhh wahh waahh
wahhh wahhh wahh waahh

Pete was right about one thing... we won't get fooled by the likes of him again.

[Dr Fate]

19. Sweet- more free publicity for F/911..."What is all the fuss about"

...is what the average Joe will be thinking in October, as he REACHES for the DVD at his local Movie rental shop...

Thanks Pete!

[ElementaryPenguin]

20. I love The Who. Pete's never really been political. I've learned to

Ignore much of what he says in interviews, etc. He seems to resent ever being pressured to do anything. He will very often say/do something completely contrary to what you might expect - as if doing if for effect. He obviously hasn't been doing his homework in this department. By the way, Pete - your "we vote for leaders..." WGFA analogy doesn't work - for WE NEVER VOTED FOR BUSH - WE VOTED FOR
GORE - BUT BUSHCO STOLE THE ELECTION - AND HE WAS SELECTED BY THE U.S. EXTREME COURT.

I am a huge fan and admirer (your tour last year was really incredible) - but I am rather stunned to learn that I evidently have a better understanding of the meaning of "Won't Get Fooled Again" than you do. Perhaps what you intended to write and what was actually formed were not one in the same. It remains, in my estimation, the greatest political, anti-war statement ever made in the history of rock - even if you got there by accident, and didn't mean to say it - YOU SAID IT! Hearing him sing it all the years - I have the feeling that Roger Daltrey feels that the song means the same thing I think it does! And go see the movie, Pete.

[FlemingsGhost]

22. " ... Hope I die, before I get old."

Guess what, Pete?

Oh well ... At least you aren't doing classic rock infomercials like your mate, Roger.

[goodhue]

23. Townshend on 2000 election . . .

Pete Townshend Bashes American Politics
(LAUNCH, 11/12/2000 7:00 AM)

By Craig Rosen

(11/12/00, 7 a.m. ET) - U.S. presidential politics has surfaced on Pete Townshend's radar. The Who leader, who spent a good part of this year crisscrossing the country on tour, made note of the election in a recent post on his website (petetownshend.com).

Townshend is well aware that "Won't Get Fooled Again" was used during a Republican rally, and to clear up any confusion, he said his permission was neither asked for nor needed.

He also wrote, "What America needs is free health care. Even the Democrats wouldn't provide that, so who gives a f--k who they elect..." Townshend added, "Love America. Love Americans. Face to face they are the most generous, kind people on earth. But I despise their lack of political compassion for their own faceless poor."

-- Bruce Simon, New York

http://launch.yahoo.com/read/news.asp?contentID=171237

[Tuttle]

24. I remember distinctly reading how Bush used that WGFA tune...

in 2000 campaign: his team would move in and setup a rally - the faithful would be assembled and the loud speakers would blast some tune (I forget which one, help somebody?) that was strongly associated with Gore -- the sound of a needle being ripped off the record would follow and then The Who's recording of of We Won't Get Fooled Again would come thundering through the speakers, much to the delight of neo-cons everywhere.

Am I the only one who ever read this?

BTW, I think Townsend is pretty over-rated.

Tut-tut

[coloradodem2005]

25. I didn't think Townsend was too happy about Bush using WGFA.

Of course Bush pissed off John Mellancamp and Tom Petty using their songs too.

[Norton]

30. I remember the tune they assaulted like it was yesterday!...

It was "Don't Stop (Thinkin' About Tomorrow)"... Clinton's theme song. Bastards... it happened on the morning of that horrid election. I wanted to kick my TV screen in!

[Doosh]

29. Townshend let Bush use it in 2000 against Gore

friggin pedophile

[Norton]

31. You wonder about Pete being screwed up?...

Check these lyrics from "Tommy" (circa 1970)


Artist: Lyrics
Song: Fiddle About Lyrics



I'm your wicked Uncle Ernie;
I'm glad you won't see or hear me,
As I fiddle about, fiddle about, fiddle about.
Your mother left me here to mind you,
And I'm doing exactly what I bleedin' well want to,
Fiddling about, fiddling about, fiddle about.
Down with your bedclothes,
Up with your nightshirt.
Fiddle about, fiddle about, fiddle about.
You won't "shite"
As I fiddle "abite."
Fiddle about, fiddle about, fiddle about.

There's a problem runnin' around inside Pete's head all right!

[onenote]

32. stop acting like freepers

Wow, reading this thread you'd think a bunch of freepers had taken over, spouting intolerant, uniformed opinions as fact. So let's try it again.

For those of you who are convinced that Pete Townshend has been established to be a pedophile with a "mess of child porn" on his computer, here are the facts. He was found (as he had acknowledged long before the story broke) to have used his credit card one time to access a child porn site that he encountered while researching a book. His computers were seized, thoroughly investigated, and found to have no...repeat..no pornographic material on them. A group of pedophile victims in the UK have come out strongly in support of Pete:
http://www.phoenixsurvivors.com/Pete_Townshend.html

As I've said before, you would think that folks on the left would recognize that just maybe, the police and the press don't always get things right.

As for the Moore-Townshend dispute, the fact is that they both agree that Wont' Get Fooled Again,with its message of "meet the new boss, same as the old boss" wouldn't be appropriate for the end of F9/11.

And as for those who suggest Townshend can't be trusted because he admits to have supported the war at the beginning...well, we're gonna have a heck of a time winning this election if we treat everyone who made that mistake as if they're worthless. Funny how everyone got excited when Sen Roberts suggested that maybe the Senate wouldnt have voted for the war if they knew what they know now. I applaud those who didn't support the war initially (and I am one of you), but I don't think I'm superior to those who got it wrong and who now acknowledge that (which would include Townshend)

Finally, I challenge anyone who claims that Townshend is "extremely conservative" to back it up. Its bs. Freeper style bs at that.

onenote

[Tuttle]

33. And I challenge you to show me where he ordered Rove

to stop using that tune in 2000.

Agreed?

And yes, I agree SOME people sound like freepers here.

Tut-tut

[onenote]

40. pete's view of bush

Sure, game on. You are right that I can't show where Pete ordered Rove not to use Won't Get Fooled Again. Of course, its not clear that he could've prevented it under US Copyright law. But I can show you what Townshend had to say about Bush at a concert in November 2000 at the NEC Center in Birmingham UK (as quoted on a Who-related board on Nov. 9, 2000):

"Maybe Pete has had the last word on this at last nights NEC show:

'I heard today, on the internet that George Bush (who looks like he has won
the election) adopted this song in his campaign (laughs), its called Won’t
get fooled again and you know he didn’t ask MY permission, don’t know if he
asked Rogers so the new President of The United Sates is what I would call a
C***.'

(much applause)"

So, I stand by my statement that suggestions that Pete Townshend is extremely conservative and/or a GWB supporter are, BS.

onenote

[Tuttle]

45. volley

Link???

I guess Pete learned back then that he should create a dust-up in the public arena (like he's doing now against someone who DIDN'T use his tune)?

Sorry, this stinks to high heaven! Pete should stick to his 'research' -- maybe the guy who's making the 'Michael Moore Hates America' film will want to interview Townsend...

BTW -- November 9, 2000? In my recollection, the Supreme Court ended the recounts forever on 12-12-00 (but I could be wrong). Sounds like Pete could find work, calling election-related disputes for Foxnews (move over John Ellis).

Tut-tut

[onenote]

49. return shot

Not a bad volley, but your backhand could use some work :)

Link: http://www.igtc.com/archives/thewho/2000/Nov/msg00274.html
I have a tape of the concert somewhere and while I haven't listened to it for a while, I can confirm that the statement attributed to Pete is accurate (although without checking, I suspect Pete said "Won't" not "Don't").


As for Pete "creating a dust-up" -- it was Moore that took the first shot by publicly -- and incorrectly -- stating that Pete wouldn't let him use the song because Pete supports the war. Whether a person started out opposing the war (me, and I'm guessing, you) or initially supported it but changed their view (which would describe Townshend and, hopefully, as many other people as can be persuaded), I think such a person is entirely justified in responding if someone publicly characterizes them as a current supporter of the war. You disagree?

And,yes, the recounts didn't end until December. But let's be real --
when Pete went on stage in the UK on November 8 -- the next day after the election, -- (the 9th was the day of the report,not the day of the concert) stating that it "looks like" Bush had won (not, Bush won)was not an unreasonable statement. Doesn't mean he liked the result. After all, Townshend characterization of Bush as a c*** is a pretty strong indication to the contrary.

Ball's in your court.

[Tuttle]

59. NET!

it was Moore that took the first shot by publicly -- and incorrectly -- stating that Pete wouldn't let him use the song because Pete supports the war

Huh??? Who do you think you're dealing with here? Wolf Blitzer? Keith Moon? Alan Colmes?

Absolutely everything I've read about this incident emanated from Townsend, with decidedly "poor me, Michael Moore's a bully!" slant.

Please, keep ball in play and provide the link where Moore said ANYTHING about this -- before Townsend began whining: ok?

I have to admit, Moore can be pretty scary but only if you're on the rightwing side of the argument!

Tut-tut

[onenote]

63. deuce?

Wolf. Keith. Alan. At least one of them was talented and entertaining. Too bad he's dead.

Anyway, here's the link to the interview that Michael Moore gave that prompted Townshend to respond. http://filmlinc.com/fcm/online/fahr911interview.htm

The fact that everything you (and most folks) have read about this starts and ends with Townshend is one of the things that is troubling about the whole thing. To the extent that the media -- particularly the anti-Moore media -- see a counterculture icon like Townshend being critical of Moore, it serves their purpose. It plays into some concept that Moore is so "out there" that folks spontaneously leap to criticize him. It would've diminished their ability to use Pete against Moore (which is what the media is doing IMHO) if they had more fully reported the story, which reveals that, when all is said and done, Moore and Townshend agree with each other that WGFA wasn't the right song and that Neil Young was a better choice.

And fortunately, neither Pete nor Michael scare me. Just shrub and his gang. They scare me to death.

onenote

[Tuttle]

65. Fault!

Sorry, onenote -- I think I need some better connection here.

Unless you really are (as someone suggests below) Townsend himself, the website of the Film Society of Lincoln Center seems a little obscure to me - I don't see a date - I don't see anything, other than an explanation of how Neil Young's tune came into use.

Are his facts wrong here? Does Townsend support Poodle and the invasion? Have you seen this movie?

Can you provide a link where Townsend says, "Moore went off on me at that Lincoln Center Film Society magazine website -- but he didn't tell the whole truth -- it wasn't Harvey who appealed to me -- they never called -- I LOVE MICHAEL MOORE AND WANTED MY MUSIC TO END THIS MONUMENTAL FILM! He is a bully and a liar!"

Obviously, you are a huge Townsend fan -- I'm sorry your guy supports the policy of pre-emptive invasion.

Personally, I think Moore did the right by honoring their request that the song NOT be used -- end of story.

Tut-tut

[chookie]

41. Ooop, buddy. That's an Entwhistle composition

You'll have to find something else to smear Pete with.

Entwhistle wrote that one. He often wrote dark and satirical off-the-wall verse for his work with the Who as well as his solo stuff.

By the way, not all lyrics are autobiographical. Sometimes they are written to express the thoughts of another person -- in this case, the abusive Uncle Ernie, a character in a rock opera.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

47. I think "Rough Boys" is a better indication...

..of Petes nonce ways.

Tough boys
Running the streets
Come a little closer
Rough toys
Under the sheets
Nobody knows her
Rough boys
Don't walk away
I very nearly missed you
Tough boys
Come over here
I wanna bite and kiss you

I wanna see what I can find

Tough kids
Take a bottle of wine
When your deal is broken
Ten quid
She's so easy to find
Not a word is spoken
Rough boys
Don't walk away
I'm still pretty blissed here
Tough boy
I'm gonna carry you home
You got pretty pissed dear

Gonna get inside you
Gonna get inside your bitter mind

Rough boys
Don't walk away
I wanna buy you leather
Make noise
Try and talk me away
We can't be seen together
Tough kids
What can I do?
I'm so pale and weedy
Rough fits
In my Hush Puppy shoes
But I'm still pleading

Tough boys
Running the streets
Come a little closer
Rough toys
Under the sheets
Nobody knows her
Rough boys
Don't walk away
I very nearly missed you
Tough boys
Come over here
I wanna bite and kiss you
I wanna see what I can find!

[onenote]

52. so all songs all literal to you?

Writing Rough Boys is evidence of Pete's "nonce" ways (ps - for the uniformed, nonce is slang for pedophile). Wow! Is that true for all songwriters? Raises some interesting questions, particularly about male songwriters who write in the female voice for theatrical productions. They must be pretty doggone confused I guess. Or maybe, you might consider what Townshend himself said about the song --

"It was that song, which is ironic because the song is actually taunting both the homosexuals in America--who were, at the time, dressing themselves up as Nazi generals--and the punks in Britain dressing the same way. I thought it was great that these tough punks were dressing as homosexuals without realizing it. I did an interview about it, saying that Rough Boys was about being gay, and in the interview I also talked about my "gay life," which--I meant--was actually about the friends I've had who are gay. So the interviewer kind of dotted the t's and crossed the i's and assumed that this was a coming out, which it wasn't at all. But I became an object of ridicule when it was picked up in England. It was a big scandal, which is silly. If I were bisexual, it would be no big deal in the music industry. If I ran down a list of the men who have tried to get me into bed, I could bring down quite a few big names in the music business. And no, I won't do it." -- Playboy interview
http://www.rotten.com/library/culture/the-who/

[truthisfreedom]

34. leave pete alone. and leave michael alone on this subject as well.

it's a dispute between friends, essentially, and the publicity helps both of them, but we can't possibly analyze exactly what is happening or what happened between them. let it be. they're both okay in my book.

[dbt]

37. Roger that!

I seem to remember that Neil Young took a few slings and arrows over "Let's Roll," but he turned out okay. Both Townshend and Moore can be completely full of shit from time to time, but each one is a Mad Genius in his own right--and I think they both "belong to us."

I say we let this lay.

:hippie:
dbt

[DemonFighterLives]

35. The Who is Great!

I saw them at Zepplenfeld in Germany in 1979. Definitely one of the best Rock bands ever. Peter Frampton once said on the radio that Townshend sometimes liked to be called "Loretta". for what it's worth.
I came away from Fahrenheit 911 singing the Who song even if it wasn't there. That must have been what the drug addled mind of the monkey must have been thinking when he did the hatchet job on the old saying.
Truly a shame that Moore and Townshend couldn't come together on this.
Also, Moore being asked to do a Who documentary is a great tribute to Mooore.

[peace4all]

36. Americans love a celebrity spat

but its not that important IMO

[Crazy8s]

38. Poor ole Pete

Sounds like he WAS fooled again!

[qb]

39. Why do all of these dingbats who hate Moore keep giving him free publicity

[MilesColtrane]

42. It's Really Galling When

guys like Pete Townsend refuse to allow their music in righteous movies, but will then turn around and license it out to sell Humvees.
Kind of like when Zeppelin wouldn't let Richard Linklater use their music in "Dazed and Confused", and then a few years later you see them helping to sell Cadillacs.
Any association between these folks and the word "artist" should forever be disallowed.

[goforit]

46. Townsend is British, eh?....It's a supiority thing to support this war.

Yes ...and Townsend does sound pathetic and desparate.

[West Coast Democrat]

48. I like the Who, so it disappoints me to see Pete acting this way

[onenote]

50. And I like Michael Moore, so I'm disappointed too

After all, he's the one that started this thing by incorrectly claiming that Pete is a supporter of the war and that's why he wouldn't let Moore use the song. If that sort of statement came out of a repug's mouth, I'd say he was lying.

onenote

[West Coast Democrat]

51. Maybe Pete is a supporter of the "war"

I don't really trust newbie posters enough to get into this with you though.

[onenote]

53. Glad to be welcomed

Gee, sorry for being a newbie -- didn't realize our opinions came with a discount. Please let me know (a) how many posts I have to make before you'll deign to "get into" a discussion with me and (b)what other bits of information you have that aren't supported by any facts but "Maybe" (your word) are true.

onenote

[West Coast Democrat]

54. You seem to be a single topic poster

that seems a little odd.

[onenote]

56. had to start somewhere

And it happened to be with this thread. I need to go back and check the forum rules. Didn't know you had to post to a variety of threads to be legit. Anyway, I fully intend to post to other threads when I think I have something to add (something more than a "me too" post).Is there another thread you would like me to post to so you can tell me you won't pay attention to what I have to say there?

onenote (geez, maybe that wasn't such a good username to pick) :)

[West Coast Democrat]

61. I guess it was the single topic posting combined with the fact that...

you're just too angry!

[aurthur_dent]

71. We should all be angry

When people use misinformation and/or lies and/or underhanded attacks. Kudos to onenote to try to set the record straight re: Pete Townshend. The thing that gets me the most about the right is their use of lies, misleading information and twisting of the facts. Perhaps I'm too idealistic, but it saddens me to see that in play.

[RetroLounge]

55. Pete? Is that you?

eom

[West Coast Democrat]

57. It's his encyclopedic knowledge of Pete Townshend that has me wondering!

[onenote]

58. a little knowledge is a good thing

Yep, I happen to know a lot of things about the Who. Its not the only thing I know about, but its one. I assume that there are lots of DU'ers out there that know a lot about various subjects. And I hope that when someone posts something that they know about, they weigh in, particularly to set the record straight. Let's leave "keep ourselves ignorant" approach to the freepers, who seem to have perfected it anyway.

onenote

[ElementaryPenguin]

62. It might well be Pete, and if it is, I think he's given a good explanation

Of his actions. Pete, or Pete expert, OneNote has helped this huge Who fan accept Pete's actions re: F 9-11. I don't believe (and indeed refuse to believe) that Townshend is an actual right-winger, even though his politics over the years have been difficult to pigeon-hole (as are most things about the guy - including his artistry). I readily acknowledge the fact that I am too big a Who/Townshend fan to be an objective judge of this matter - but in my opinion, for any of us here to denigrate the importance or significance of The Who and their music because Pete and Michael Moore (whom I also greatly admire) did not see eye to eye on the appropriateness of one particular song is ludicrous and indeed freeper-like!

[onenote]

64. my work is done

Time to ride off into the sunset. Or at least in search of another thread. I'm game for some Faux bashing, particularly that nitwit Colmes, or the nitwit O'Reilly, or the nitwit Hannity...or the nitwit Gibson........and on and on and on!

onenote

[Tuttle]

60. RetroLounge -- LOL!!!

Good one! Outa the park!

Tut-tut