Pilot who dropped atom bomb on Nagasaki dies

[UrbScotty]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/Northeast/07/17/obit.sweeney.ap/index.html

Charles W. Sweeney, a retired Air Force general who piloted the plane that dropped an atomic bomb on Nagasaki in the final days of World War II, has died at age 84.

<snip>

Sweeney was 25 when he piloted the B-29 bomber that attacked Nagasaki on August 9, 1945, three days after the Enola Gay dropped an atomic bomb on Hiroshima and six days before Japan surrendered.

About 70,000 people were killed in the explosion of the bomb, dubbed "Fat Man." It was the first bomb Sweeney ever dropped on an enemy target.

[lanparty]

1. Technically ...

... the bombadeer dropped the bomb on Nagasaki. Though the pilot is considered commander while their in the air. So he ordered the bombadeer to do it.

[UrbScotty]

2. Technically, yes.

But of course, CNN... :eyes:

[DulceDecorum]

3. I wonder what he is going to say

to the other people who were in Nagasaki on that day.

[thebigidea]

4. "I was only following orders" seems popular.

Let the endless argument begin...

on your marks... get set... GO!

[Geo55]

17. That was me 1st thought...came you imagine ? n/t

[ferrisam21169]

24. He'll have plenty to say...

I'd hope he'd say to them, "you shouldn't have started that war and killed hundreds of thousands of people".

Of course, the people who died in Nagasaki that day will have to wait a while to talk with him. First all the US service men that didn't die invading Japan will want to say thanks and buy him a beer or two.

[jdonaldball]

27. Not hundreds of thousands. Millions.

The Japanese didn't kill hundreds of thousands. They killed millions, mostly in China.

[HarveyBriggs]

33. My great uncle was murdered at Pearl Harbor.

You anti-American types always seem to forget about that.

I have no sympathy for people who start wars. Japanese, Nazis Confederates, LBJ or GWB.

Harvey Briggs.

[rooboy]

37. I have no sympathy for people who start wars or kill civilians...

regardless of whose army they fight for.

[JohnyCanuck]

5. If the Buddhist are right,

sounds like he'll have quite the load of karma to work off in his next life.

[BiggJawn]

6. You think as much as Rumsferatu or Wolfowitz?

There's a pair who got a BIG Karmic bill coming!

[citizensoldier1970]

32. Depends on how you look at it.

I would risk the bad Karma in trade for the lives on both sides He helped save.

[alfredo]

7. there was a famous kitemaker in Nagasaki that survived both

atomic blasts.

He was in Hiroshima when the first one went off. He was able to jump a train home to Nagasaki. He arrived there in just enough time to warn his family and hit the bomb shelter.

Ground zero was to be his neighborhood, but the cloud cover made them miss their target.

Here is a copy of one of his hata kite designs.



Some say he became a kite maker after the war, some say he was already established as a kitemaker before the second sun rose. That he survived is what mattered. We would have been robbed of his beautiful kites.

[Stanchetalarooni]

8. Sad thing about it all is that....he had his orders.

All of us, to some degree are just following orders.
We rationalize after the fact,
yet prior to we claim to be acting of our own free will.
It certainly boggles my mind that all the warriors believe that they are fighting 'the good war'.
All of us.

[DubyaSux]

9. Pretty bad, but...

As despicable as that bomb was, I can't say how it wasn't the best option out of any option we had. There were no good choices back then.

Japan attacked us. They declared war on us an attacked us. We had to defend ourselves against an enemy as ruthless and loyal to thier case as anybody we could have ever imagined. We were fighting them in the air, on the beaches, and in the water and losing thousands of Americans. The Japanese had no intent of stopping until every last one of the were dead.

I worked for Honda of America and worked with many Japanese engineers. They are some of the greatest people on the planet. Very smart and polite. But every one of them that I talked to about the nukes said it was the best thing that could have happened. There are a few hold-outs, but I've never met any.

The ones I talked to said without the bombs, we could not have won the war (and not say Japan would have either). But this caused the complete surrender and rebuild of their country. Most are grateful for that. They had more to gain by losing then by winning (something they wouldn't have considered back then).

It's too bad this person had to live with this on his mind all those years. Many innocents died. But without it, many more American innocents would have died. A crappy deal was in store for someone no matter how the war worked out. That's why wars should be fought as a last resort - not by choice (are you listening Bush?).

He should not have had to live with this because of a crappy decision by world leaders. But in this event, it was the Japanese leadership that made the bad decision by attacking us.

[mistertrickster]

10. Yeah, I agree--It was a horrible thing to do, and in retrospect, probably

unnecessary. Japan was just about ready to drop from the embargo anyway.

But at the time, I'm sure I would have been for it--it was total war. The object WAS to annihilate the enemy.

It's too bad Japan's militarists didn't quit when they knew they couldn't win. It's too bad we couldn't look beyond our short-term goal of revenge and "winning" at any cost.

It was horrible, horrible . . . but it's not fair to judge the actions of America in 1945 using what we know in 2004.

[tuckessee]

16. Your Japanese pals are WRONG!!!

The atomic bombings did nothing to make the Japanese more open to capitualtion.

Ironically just yesterday I was reading a book called The Impact of Air Power edited by Eugene M. Emme published by D. Van Nostrand Company, Inc. in 1959. In it is an article by Major General Orvil A. Anderson originally published in Air Power Historian , October 1957 titled "Air War in the Pacific".

I came across this passage in Anderson's piece.......

"As pointed out by the U.S. Strategic Bombing survey, interrogation of the highest Japanese officals, following V-J Day, indicated that Japan would have surrendered to the air attack even if no surface invasion had been planned, if Russia had not entered the war, and if the atom bombs had not been dropped." (emphasis original)

In case you doubt Anderson's credentials, he was Army Air Force advisor to the Chairman of the U.S. Strategic Bombing Survey and later the first Commandant of the Air War College of the U.S. Air Force among many other things.

You must simply grasp the undisputable fact that the A-bombings weren't neccessary and neither was the invasion of the Japan which they supposedly prevented. Japan was ready to surrender and be occupied by the Fall of 1944 but the United States would have none of it.

[hightime]

18. 20/20 hindsight is a beautiful thing

[Swamp Rat]

21. Not according to the History Channel.

Yesterday, there was a show (it will be replayed this week in case you want to see it) that claims that some in the military wanted to fight to the last person alive, just hours before the surrender, even AFTER the bombs were dropped. This is the opposite of what you read. Perhaps there are other stories buried in old books and journals that can shed more light on what happened.

[TheWraith]

26. As a matter of fact...

There was an attempted coup de tat for this very reason--some of the military high command tried to capture and destroy the surrender order issued by the Emperor, since once that was broadcast the war was over. In fact, the History Channel had a fascinating documentery awhile back about the whole incident, and the factors which came together to stop the coup and prevent the already planned third nuclear bombing.

[Swamp Rat]

34. That's the show I was referring to

It played the other night, which means it will probably be shown yet again.

[NickB79]

22. "Interrogation...following V-J Day"

The US found out AFTER we dropped the bombs that Japan was on the verge of surrender. How could they have known this before dropping the nuclear bombs, when the Japanese refused to surrender even after conventional firebombing runs killed more people in Tokyo than nuclear weapons did in Hiroshima AND Nagasaki combined?

In retrospect, its possible that the nuclear bombs weren't worth it. But at the time, there was no way for the US to know what we know now.

[rinsd]

28. Agreed....

Hindsight of course gives us a better picture but one must remember a few factors....

After our experience dealing with Okinawa, I can see why this was seen as lesser of two evils alternative. There had been a couple of coups during the war and lastly, people seem to take the Japanese surrender overtures earnestly while forgetinng we were in peace negotiations with them right up until they bombed Pearl Harbor.

[Laughing Mirror]

42. We had broken the Japanese codes, for one

For another, Japanese had instructed their ambassador in Moscow to work on peace negotiations with Allies. So Truman clearly knew. He bombed Japan to scare Stalin, keep the Russians from Japan and keep Japan from surrendering to Stalin, not him. That way, he could be the one to own the country. That's what happened. The bombings had nothing to day with saving lives. This was known then, no hindsight needed.

[HarveyBriggs]

35. Oh BALONEY!

These Japanes Generals you cite had no reason to lie?

You're defeending a nation that commited genocide on the order of six to ten million people.

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.CHAP3.HTM

Your Eurocentric attitude focuses on the Jewish haulocaust and ignore those murdered whose eyes aren't as round as ours. How despicably racist of you.

I get sick and tired of aplogizing weenies who forget just how viscious this enemy was. And how ready they were to murder.

The S.O.B.s deserved it.

When the Japanese people begin to apologize ans mourn those they murdered without a second thought, perhaps I'll bow my head and mourn those who died in Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Their failure to offer such an apology loudly and clearly is a monsterous abomination, greater by far than any bomb.

The fact that there are those left who do not apologize, yet complain about the bombs is evidence that we did not kill enough of them.

People who start wars have no right to complain how their enemies finish them.

Harvey Briggs

[chenGOD]

38. You sound like the conservative Koreans over here in Seoul.

Yes what the Japanese military did was despicable,horrible and a great tragedy; however does that mean that the Japanese civilians should be nuked to dust?
The US military is doing some pretty despicable things right now in Iraq and Afghanistan, I guess LA and New York are ripe for a nuclear strike?

The Japanese nationals I have met are very remorseful for what their government did in those times. Why the Japanese government does not show regret is beyond my comprehension.

"The fact that there are those left who do not apologize, yet complain about the bombs is evidence that we did not kill enough of them."

That's a great sentiment for a progressive. uhhh mods?

[Donkeyboy75]

39. Uh, don't you think the Japanese officials had reason to say that?

Maybe they'd garner a bit of sympathy and prey upon the guilt of the side that killed thousands of their people?

I still think the U.S. should have dropped a bomb off the coast to scare the shit out of them before actually killing so many people.

And if they were really going to surrender, why didn't they do so immediately after Hiroshima?

[TahitiNut]

11. On August 9, 1945, the Bock's Car dropped an atomic bomb (the "Fat Man")

Captain Beahan, Captain Van Pelt, Jr., First Lt. Albury, Second Lt. Olivi, Major Sweeney

Staff Sgt. Buckley, Master Sgt. Kuharek, Sgt. Gallagher, Staff Sgt. DeHart, Sgt. Spitzer

See http://www.atomicarchive.com/Photos/Photo10.shtml


FWIW, "Fat Man" was made at Hanford (in Eastern Washington state) and was a plutonium bomb. Richland High School still has the nickname "The Bombers."

[zanana]

12. Okay, Christians...

Where is he now?

[Zynx]

13. No good Christian would judge that.

As I am a practicing Christian, that is not my place.

[Geo55]

19. Oh....so you're one of "those" Christians.....lol n/t

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrSlayer]

14. R.I.P. General Sweeney, You did what you had to do.

Thank you for your service, Godspeed.

[Endangered Specie]

15. "I was just following my orders"

Famous last words of the Shutzstaffel too.

[NickB79]

25. Just as thousands of other US bomber pilots did

Tens of thousands of US airmen manned bombers over both Europe and the Pacific in WWII, dropping millions of tons of bombs on targets and killing millions of Germans, Italians and Japanese. How is what he did any different from what the rest of these pilots did? They all followed their orders.

I wonder if the pilot even knew of the power of the weapon he was carrying. Would they give that kind of information to the pilot, that he was carrying an experimental weapon capable of flattening an entire city? Did he have the information to realize the significance of his mission? If not, he had no way to know that what he was about to do would kill 50,000+ people, and thus no way to refuse to carry out his orders due to his morals. The Germans convicted at Nuremburg, however, knew full-well what they were doing, and still chose to carry out their orders. The comparison of this man to Nazi war criminals is an apples-and-oranges comparison, IMO.

[Zerex71]

31. On the contrary, the two are exactly the same.

All bomber pilots are culpable, aware of their missions, and those who've participated in live bombing runs over populated areas are killers, plain and simple. There is no morality to it and the Americans are no less immoral than the Germans. It's just a difference of means.

It has been widely reported that Paul Tibbets, of Enola Gay fame (and by extension, probably Sweeney as well) were told something along the lines of "special mission" and "special weapon", but you can only hide something like that for so long. So it is not unreasonable to assume that he and his crew had an idea of what was about to take place, therefore meeting the "prior knowledge" criterion of the argument.

Also, they all willingly carried out their mission - their orders - just as the Germans did. This meets the "just following orders" criterion of the argument.

Finally, as an added bonus, neither many of the German commanders et. al. at Nuremburg, nor these pilots (Tibbets and Sweeney), were ever, in their later years, repentant for what they did. So in this case, morality is defined by "following orders" trumping the Sixth Commandment.

Mike

[Forkboy]

23. Hope he finds a better fate than the one he delivered to thousands

[HereSince1628]

29. Anyone know who were in the chase planes at Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

Just pointing out, once again, the obvious yet invisible people. Maybe the FOI Act makes those names available.

I didn't visit the Smithsonian exhibit on the Anola Gay so I don't know if it mentioned the forgotten ones...

When I interviewed for my first college teaching job the student newspaper was printing a story on their beloved "DOC" who died on campus a few days before. The story suggested that Ben Richason (sp?) had been on board one of these chase planes and had photgraphed one or both of the mushroom clouds.

[Zerex71]

30. Well, at least he'll get a firsthand look

at what Bush will have waiting for him. After all, both have killed tens of thousands of innocent people.

[Donkeyboy75]

40. No. Truman did.

And you should probably come up with a better solution for ending the war if you are going to criticize what was used.

[Tight_rope]

36. I'm sure he was not proud of what he did in the end. God will deal with

him.

[Heyo]

41. Just reading the debate here....

..the usual "wether or not the bomb should have been used" debate that springs up when there is mention of the bombs.

I for one think it was the right thing to do.. both of them

For those who are against it, might I suggest you Google the phrase "Unit 731" for a little perspective on who we were dealing with at that time....

Heyo

[mbperrin]

43. One of the reasons for dropping the bomb was to impress and

intimidate Stalin so that the US and Britain would have the upper hand after the war.

Here's a place to start:http://www.dannen.com/decision/potsdam.html

[Bush was AWOL]

44. The Bomb was NOT A MISTAKE!

Truman did the right thing.

The Japanese were going to fight to the death.

We saved thousands of US soldiers by dropping this bomb on a country who was perhaps just as brutal as Germany and attacked us on our homeland when were not in the war.

[edbermac]

45. Have to agree...

IMO, the US was correct in using the bomb. Look at what happened when England was bombed constantly by the Luftwaffe, the V1 and V2 weapons. The British didn't back down an inch. If the Allies had tried to invade Japan it would have been a bloodbath compared to the Hiroshima/Nagasaki casualties.