Tampa protest shows divide on Bush's Cuba travel policy

[Mika]

Tampa protest shows divide on Bush's Cuba travel policy

"I have no other choice," said Carbonelo, a 59-year-old Cuban expatriate would said he is furious over Bush's recent restrictions on travel to the island. The restrictions mean Carbonelo will be unable to visit his four uncles there.
"Family comes before anything," he said. "God, family and country. That's the order."

Carbonelo and about 150 other rain-soaked protesters lined Himes Avenue near Columbus Drive on Saturday morning to show opposition to the new travel restrictions, which allow visits to immediate family in Cuba only once every three years.

Just across Himes, though, stood a group of more than 100 supporters of Bush's policy - evidence that for Cuban Americans, a vital voting bloc in Florida, this issue is as divisive as any in an already contentious election year.

"This represents a split among Cuban Americans," said Maura Barrios, assistant director of the Latin American and Caribbean studies department at the University of South Florida. "A lot of them were saying they were Republicans who voted for Bush, and they're not voting for him anymore because of this particular issue."

More,
http://www.sptimes.com/2004/07/18/Tampabay/Tampa_protest_shows_d.shtml

[Cha]

1. Sorry for this policy that keeps Cubans for visiting

their families..what was bushco thinking ..alienating his Cuban supporters in Florida? I haven't read one explanation of that.

[Mika]

3. Read the article -Betty Castor is out to lunch on this too

She says this..

"I think there is a consensus among leaders in this state that the (trade) embargo should stay in place," Castor said. "But how do you convince people on the island of Cuba about the importance of democracy and democratic traditions? You don't do that by limiting access of families here in Florida and around the country to their Cuban families."

But her policy is this..

She outlined her own Cuba policy, which calls for once-a-year island visits by family members

:wtf: :shrug: :crazy:


Travel restrictions (albeit less restrictive than Bush's) are still travel restrictions.

[Cha]

4. I did read the article and I think Betty Castor's plan

is a lot better than bush's.

[Mika]

5. Unfortunately 1/2 justice is OK for the Dem party

True. Betty believes in three turns of the thumbscrews instead of Bush's four.


Her platform still calls for family travel restrictions.

Tell me what other group is singled out and discriminated against like this?

Why are any travel restriction acceptable? Its an abridgment of our rights, and the singling out of Cuban immigrants and their families is unconscionable!


Unfortunately 1/2 justice and selective family separation is OK for the Dem party (and its not even 1/2 justice regarding Cuba policy)

Kerry's stated policy on Cuba:
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/8848574.htm

Under a Kerry administration Cuba will remain under US sanctions

Under a Kerry administration we will still be travel banned unless our travel is deemed politically worthy by US gov jackboots

Mr Kerry, Tear down the wall!

[Judi Lynn]

10. I don't think any other pResident could bring Cuban Americans

to the point in which they would actually be protesting EACH OTHER on a street in Tampa.

Really makes you wonder what the old "Ah'm a euniter, not a devider's" up to, doesn't it?

What can he be "thinking?"

[Mika]

13. To add to that point..

Kerry can now stand right up and boldly say that he doesn't support Bush's latest travel sanctions.

He can stand tall and proclaim to America that he has a different policy - we will boldly return to the 40 year old failed policy, not Bush's new failed policy.

Its enough to gag a maggot.

.. and Dems fall for this? :puke:

America wants honest & true change..

Poll: Americans on Cuban Sanctions
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=770

Will we get it?

Nope.

Kerry's stated policy on Cuba:
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/8848574.htm

Under a Kerry administration Cuba will remain under US sanctions

Under a Kerry administration we will still be travel banned unless our travel is deemed politically worthy by US gov jackboots

Mr Kerry, Tear down the wall!

[bluestateguy]

2. 25% of the Cuban vote should be enough for Kerry

I believe the Cuban vote in 2000 was something like 15%-20% for Gore.

[quaoar]

6. Stupid Cuba policy

When you have a policy that hasn't worked for 44 years, what should you do? More of the same?

It's insane.

[Mika]

7. Too bad the Dems (Kerry) want more of the same

Kerry's stated policy on Cuba:
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/8848574.htm

Under a Kerry administration Cuba will remain under US sanctions

Under a Kerry administration we will still be travel banned unless our travel is deemed politically worthy by US gov jackboots

[olddem43]

8. I think it's time to completely open up travel and trade.

Treating Cuba as if it were a Soviet satellite is a relic of the cold war. Castro would probably last less than 6 months with all restrictions lifted. Kerry may think this way also, but election year politics rule. What I don't understand, if trade with China is good, why is trade with Cuba bad? Cuba has never, itself, been any threat.

[Dimsdale]

12. You have that right! Enough..

With all the exortations about getting over it and moving on from Chimpco and the compliant media, the same should apply to Cuba. Cuba's Soviet affliation happened and so what? It's time to work with them, lift the restrictions. WTF?

[Judi Lynn]

9. Will Alex Penelas EVER wake up?

Danae Jones, a spokeswoman for Democratic Senate candidate Alex Penelas, Miami-Dade County's mayor, said she didn't know if he favored allowing Cuban Americans to visit Cuba more often than once every three years. He has not formed an official policy on the issue, she said.

This is simply pathetic. He is no more like a Democrat than Jesse Helms. Good grief. How dare this guy represent himself as a Democrat. He's clinging to the right-wing extremists from the Cuban "exiles," hoping they'll do his thinking for him, too.

God forbid he should be forced to make a stand.

As far as I'm concerned, he made the stand that tells us where he's coming from when he backstabbed Al Gore repeatedly during the 2000 Presidential campaign.

He also showed everyone what kind of American he is by refusing to allow Miami-Dade police to assist U.S. federal agents as they were forced to retrieve Elián Gonzalez from his drunken great-uncle Lázaro's home, after the butthead defied the federal court order.

[Mika]

11. Good catch

I missed that point in my zeal to condemn Castor.

As I've said before, a Fla Dem is pretty much a repug in disguise.

---

... because our Bonesman is better than their Bonesman?

[Zhade]

22. Considering Penelas betrayed Gore in 2000, I doubt it.

Doing what's right doesn't appear to be his primary motivation.

[BeFree]

14. Tell me again, what was it that Cuba did?

Did Cuba send 19 hijackers over and fly planes into tall buildings?

What exactly about Cuba is it that we are so afraid of? Why is everything Cuban practically illegal?

***********

Funny about those Cubans in Florida.... even they can't decide what to do about their homeland. Is it any wonder JK is sitting on the fence?

[Mika]

16. Why should EX Cubans in Miami have any say in Cuba?

The older generation of chickenshits fled Cuba and went AWOL in Miami, but yet stake their abandonded claims of old on the new Cuba - post revolution. They want America(ns) to do their bidding and heavy lifting. Cheney them! They aren't Cubans, they are ex-Cubans. They are ours now. Unwanted in Cuba.

Real Cubans in Cuba will take care of their own country, just as Americans should take care of their own.

[BeFree]

17. Right, and we shouldn't care about Europe, either

We are ex-Europeans, Cheney Europe! <end sarcasm>

Cubans in America came here for many different reasons. Not all are politically motivated. But all Cubans hate the fact that they can't travel freely to their native land. But many ex-Cubans, now American citizens, have as much right to speak about Cuba as you.

Problem is, they are divided on how to go about dealing with Castro.

Some loved Carter's moves toward normalization others loved Reagans heavy-handed dealings.

If Democrats has closed ranks and voted for Carter in 1980, Cuba's relationship with America would probably be something like Puerto Rico's is now. But we didn't and Cuba ain't.

[Mika]

19. WTF. Please reread my post

Where did I say Cheney Cuba? Where did I say that they shouldn't care?

I said neither thing. You have twisted the intent of my post.

I do question whether hard core Cuban exiles really care about the people of their familial homeland by calling for family separation and/or by calling for even greater deprivations and poverty for their former homeland (in the form of US sanctions on Cuba).


Do hard core European expats call for US embargoes and sanctions or even invasion on their or their parents former homeland like the hard core ex Cuban exiles do? Nope.


I questioned why Cuban expats who have claimed America as their own should have any say (political rights) as to what happens IN Cuba, because they have lost their former rights IN Cuba (by Cuban law).


-


"Problem is, they are divided on how to go about dealing with Castro."

Why should expats be "dealing with Castro"? They left and forfeited their right to do so IN Cuba. Its a violation of the US's Neutrality Act for expats to interfere in Cuban sovereign issues from US territory also.


Leave Cuban sovereign affairs to actual Cubans IN Cuba.

[BeFree]

20. You're right

You said Cheney them, (them = ex-Cubans)

So, Cheney ex-Europeans, eh?

But my real point was that if we all got behind Carter when he was trying to correct the right-wingers on Cuba, we wouldn't have such a problem today. See how attacking our own can lead to unintended consequences?

As far as I am concerned, let Cuba be free.

[Mika]

23. Why deliberately twist my point so?

"So, Cheney ex-Europeans, eh? "

Nope. Just the ones who want to embargo or invade Europe. OK?




"See how attacking our own can lead to unintended consequences?"

I see you attacking by twisting my posts - grossly.

[BeFree]

24. Why keep focusing on that one part.?

I guess it was your attitude toward people exercising their right of free speech - "Cheney them". While we may disagree with what they say, as long as they do it legally, they should be afforded due respect.

It's funny how you disregard my obvious pokes at your anti-Kerry remarks and get all knee-jerky about free speech respect.

Cuba? Let it be free.

[Mika]

25. Again, WTF

Wrong. You keep focusing on my poke at them with the "Cheney them".

Where do I say "all Cuban immigrants"? I don't. I make it quite clear just who I am referring to..

Me-->"The older generation of chickenshits fled Cuba and went AWOL in Miami, but yet stake their abandonded claims of old on the new Cuba - post revolution. They want America(ns) to do their bidding and heavy lifting. Cheney them!"

..Yet you infer that I mean all Cuban immigrants.



I agree with you on several of your points, 1)- as to the Dem party & Carter, 2)- the chickenshit AWOL "exiles" who ran from Cuba and want Americans to do their dirty work should be afforded due respect. That's why I say Cheney them.




You-->"It's funny how you disregard my obvious pokes at your anti-Kerry remarks and get all knee-jerky about free speech respect."


It seems to me that you're getting all knee jerky about some respect issue. I don't respect chickenshit AWOL "exiles" who cry and mewl and demand that Americans do their dirty work.

[Tatiana]

18. They should have input, but they shouldn't be dictating foreign policy.

Which is what the Miami Mafia is doing. This is absolutely insane. And I'm growing tired of Kerry's "play it safe" mode of policy positions. Whatever happened to our leaders basing policy on logic and having a bold vision for America's future a la FDR?

[BeFree]

21. Whatever happened?

When Carter lost the election in 1980, Reaganism swept the country and nothing has been the same ever since.

There were so many good, farsighted things Carter could have done for us that it ain't funny. But too many Dems left and voted for someone else and America came down with a bad case of Reaganitis.

Keep attacking Kerry, and you will make all of us pay dearly, just like those who ran Carter out of office.

[Mika]

26. Attacking Kerry?

Get real.

Its staring you in the face! The voices of the majority of Americans are being ignored by both parties.

If Kerry wanted to differentiate himself from failed and anti family Cuba policies (sanctions, travel restrictions, etc) then he could do so quite easily and gain support for a sensible platform that actually represents family values. Americans support normalization.

But he doesn't.

SO, because BOTH parties support the same essential sanction/embargo policy - which is condemned internationally - then he leaves himself wide open with such a similiar platform as Bush.


I don't attack Kerry, I beseech him to change.. Mr Kerry, Tear down the wall!

[BeFree]

27. What would you like him to say?

'Cheney' some of you Cuban-Americans? Hahahaha

[Mika]

28. "'Cheney' some of you Cuban-Americans?" is already Bush's policy

""What would you like him to say? 'Cheney' some of you Cuban-Americans?"

That is Bush's policy.


Are you actually reading what I'm posting?

I'm saying that Kerry has a great chance to differentiate himself from the cruel anti family values US policies that scream 'Cheney you' to the majority of the Cuban-American community, including those policies that Bush has recently stepped up.

Also, by not speaking up for a platform that supports all of our constitutional rights to travel, both Bush and Kerry are saying "Cheney you" to all Americans freedom of choice.

Kerry should normalized trade, travel and diplomatic relations, and end the cold war era Cuban-Adjustment Act.

Its time to put the cruel and "failed" policy against Cuba to bed. Kerry could do it with a large majority of Americans and Cuban-Americans supporting him! Instead Kerry sticks with the same old crappy policies.





Mr Kerry, Tear down the wall!

[mike1963]

15. Argh. I lived in TPA for 15 years and sorry to say I don't miss it a bit.

Nothing to do with the Cubanos, I had lots of them as friends but
politics really isn't something they seem to grasp...
:eyes: