Tech Bust Zaps Interest in Computer Careers

[papau]

Tech Bust Zaps Interest in Computer Careers

Students flocked to computer science during the technology boom. Now, they are fleeing it almost as fast, spooked by tales of unemployed programmers watching their jobs migrate to India and Eastern Europe. But then computer science as an art - so we can say "Thank goodness all the people who are only interested in making money are out of this profession" - right?



http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-grads20jul20.story

Tech Bust Zaps Interest in Computer Careers
By Alex Pham
Times Staff Writer

July 20, 2004

There used to be waiting lists for Rick Ord's classes as students packed 200-seat auditoriums to scribble down bits of code once thought to unlock a life of riches and security.

These days, Ord's lectures on systems programming at UC San Diego convene in smaller halls with plenty of empty seats.

It's the same scene on campuses across the country, as enrollment in computer science programs has dropped sharply — down 23% from 2002 to 2003.

After flocking to computer science during the technology boom, students are fleeing it almost as fast, spooked by tales of unemployed programmers watching their jobs migrate to India and Eastern Europe.<snip>

Jeanne Ferrante, associate dean of the UC San Diego school of engineering, said there was little mystery why. After hovering under 2% in the late 1990s, the jobless rate for computer scientists and systems analysts grew to 5.4% in the last three months of 2003. It then jumped to 6.7% in the first quarter of this year — outstripping the overall national unemployment rate of 6.1%.<snip>

[bemildred]

1. Right. Let them get MBAs and run for pResident. nt

[mhr]

2. As Homer Simpson Would Say - Duh!

Who would be foolish enough to spend years learning CS when your next paycheck is perennially in doubt - art or not.

[derby378]

3. I've heard some people blame the Internet

After all, if all that's needed is to work up some lines of code and debug the program, it can be done in Pakistan or India by someone who will work for a fraction of what Americans are paid - just e-mail the job to the programmer and wait for the finished product to land in your inbox.

[jay-3d]

4. TRY BEING

A graphic artist

[FormerOstrich]

5. Well I will look at the bright side....

after stupidly considering myself near Quasi retirement in 2000, I re-discovered how many things are just a missed check or two away.

Assessing my current situation I estimate I will need to work until I am 93. At least there will be less competition from those young whippersnappers.

[NJGeek]

6. C'mon, a little hyperbole going on here...

I work in the tech industry, and we are doing great. In the NY area rates for senior developers are still in the 50-90 an hour range, well into six figures for salary spots.

What the 90's boom and bust did was inflate and then purge, yes violently in some cases, the ranks of psuedo-qualified/interested technologists.

Once you get over the FUD (fear, uncertaintly, and death) that articles like these represent, you'll see that skilled technologists are still needed, and will probably be more so if the undergrad ranks thin out.

[hightime]

7. The entire Y2K change over inflated both the employment ranks and salaries

Anyone who could spell IT was hired for the upcoming "disaster".

[cap]

8. yeah, right...

in the NY area there are lots and lots of sr developers who've been unemployed for over a year. Yup, and many of the jobs mandate previous financial experience. If you haven't worked in the financial sector, you arent getting hired. The job market isnt strong enough to pick up people who have the skill set but not the industry sector experience.

There aren't too many jr developers being hired. Most of the ones I am seeing are relatives of someone senior in the company.

Also, I am seeing a lot more 70-90K jobs listed for Manhattan than I ever used to. 90K sucks in Manhattan. You can make 80-90K in Jersey or PA and the cost of living is much lower.

The market is picking up in NY but there are a lot of hurting folks it has to sop up. It isn't a great job market.

[Occulus]

9. Why aren't they entering the gaming industry?

That one's strong as ever. Stonger, in fact- two of the most highly anticipated games ever are soon to be released: Doom3 and Half-Life2.

Can these developers not write a graphics engine, or something?

[NJGeek]

10. The sectors are picky, you are right

Financial Services and Healthcare are strong right now and are also the most parochial industries out there. That said, if you look on job boards like www.dice.com and www.monster.com you'll see many hundreds of mid to senior technology positions out there, where a year ago there might have been a handful. If you do some social networking and you live in the area it really isn't that hard to get a foot in the door at these places. I understand many techies don't have the social skills to network themselves as effectively as the market demands right now, but if you are rooted in a community and have some friends/family with careers, I can't see how you can be a highly-skilled unemployed developer in the NY/NJ area.

To give you an idea of how strong it is if you are in the sector, my small consulting group has picked up 4 onsite contracts with nice rates after having multiple competing offers on each of the consultants. 2 financial services, 2 healthcare. We have also had 3 nice offsite projects that we won out over offshoring competitors.

[cap]

15. no... those sectors will not hire you if you do not have recent

domain specific expertise in those areas. You can have the tech skill set but if you havent been recently working in finance or health care you are not getting hired. Just for grins and giggles put a resume out there on dice or monster with all the relevant skill sets but no domain expertise, apply for the jobs and call the recruiters. You get the short shift real quickly.

For example, I have a degree in economics from an Ivy League University and actually worked as an econometrician for 2 name institutions when I graduated from college. The bulk of my experience in IT (15+ years) has been in large scale, distributed real time mission critical applications written in C/C++/Java/Oracle for Fortune 500 companies. In a good job market, I would be a good candidate for Fin Services. In this job market, no Equities/Fixed Income experience recently on my resume, no job. In a good job market, people wouldn't care. I've worked with Nobel Prize winners in the field -- although a long time ago. I think Infrastructure projects will open up first for me in this area. This is real parochial. I pity any one less qualified.

You do not get out often enough.... There are scads of very well qualified people who are losing their houses. Wharton has opened up a job club for unemployed alumni. (Need any well qualified alumni??). In my last contracting gig, everyone was way overqualified but happy to take the jobs. Lot of crappy jobs out there -- jobs, I'd never consider in a better market. I am lucky, I have a decent job. But man did I have to consider a lot of dross -- I mean, I was actually secretly thankful that these places did not want to hire me!

Work is easing up but a lot of it in NY/NJ is 6 month contracts not perm positions... Dice has a lot of the temp jobs. NYC has 7.5% unemployment -- and as someone who used to follow these statistics in minute detail -- this is not counting a lot of people who've fallen off the unemployment rolls. Also, the statisticians at the BLS are fooling around with the way unemployment is counted.

Also, your point about "social skills to network themselves as effectively as the market demands right now" is a point well taken although probably not the way you mean it. Many people are getting jobs because they know some one; they would not need those networking skills if the job market was not highly competitive. It's the one thing I really hate about going into a new gig these days... you gotta figure out the political networks and realize that these people are going to cover each other's butts. If you have a problem with one of these people, you are going to have a problem with the whole group. The politics was never as much as it is now.

Whatever happened to the meritocracy? You applied. You had the best qualifications for the job and you got it.

[papau]

11. I like the positive post-but it does not seem to apply to a lot of age 50+

folks that I know.

I hope you are correct.

:-)

[NJGeek]

12. Right again, It is tougher the older you are

Man, with every post I get more depressed. I guess you have to try make your money when you are young and then find new career strategy. However, some senior consultants in their 50's do very well, but they have to be able to put on that "consultant face" and deal with more strategic / architectural IT issues and not expect to code 8 hours a day. Those days are long gone I'm afraid.

[Fovea]

13. Code 8 hours a day?

I have only a few vague recollections of an eight hour day.
The IT industry started to go downhill well before the internet.
It really started with tools like Visual Basic, that reduced programmer s to object users, and tools dumbed down for non programmers to use.

[cap]

16. we need to bring back EEOC for age discrimination

that's for sure.

There are a few consultants in their 50's but there are none in their 60's. Also, given the bulge in population, shouldn't the bulk of the programemrs be in their 40's-50's but that's not the way the workforce looks. Ever notice that? And none with health issues that require them taking time off.

I remember starting out when people actually retired from IT at age 65. From 55-65, there were a number of people who actually took medical leave to deal with health issues. I mean, they actually took a week off after an operation! The nerve of those people! My husband couldn't get back on the job after an operation that was supposed to use local anesthesia on Friday and he should have been able to go to work on Monday. It didn't work out that way and he needed more time to heal. He got canned.

Also, the kicker is: how do you plan for retirement? You sit down with a retirement planner and plan the amount of money you will kick in each month until you retire. All the retirement plans are based on working and being able to contribute until you are 65.

EEOC needs to be enforced.

[DaveClearwater99]

18. Purge

"What the 90's boom and bust did was inflate and then purge, yes violently in some cases, the ranks of psuedo-qualified/interested technologists."

In a perfect world it might work that way but I know a lot of good people who have been out of work for over a year and work with a lot of people who are totally helpless. It's the luck of the draw on who gets laid off and the opennings aren't there to bring the good people back in.

[stickdog]

14. Better outsource MORE then! That'll help America!

Yeh, that's the ticket!

[DaveClearwater99]

17. I haven't seen an American programmer

hired where I work in years. All new development work goes to India.

[Zerex71]

19. It's different in the offense industry.

Lily-white, to be exact. That's where all the software work is right now. We're hiring like mad all this year.

Mike

[DaveClearwater99]

20. Ok, I admit it.

I'm picky about where I live. It's nice and warm here in Florida so I don't want to leave. Plus, you need my vote here.

This is a real touchy subject for me though. I'll eventually get caned here because it right wing christian strong hold and I finally let my beliefs be know. That fact that I don't support Bush is a major issue here. I've just been trying to hang in for the market to come back a bit so I don't end up packing freedom fries for a living.

About the EEOC. I got dumped like a hot potato by a recruiter who was telling me I was a perfect fit for a position until found out what year I graduated and did the math to figure out I'm in my 40s.