Colleagues defend Berger in documents probe

[Ruby Romaine]

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Former colleagues Tuesday defended former national security adviser Samuel Berger from allegations that he took secret documents from the National Archives while reviewing Clinton administration records for the 9/11 commission.

Sources said that among the documents Berger took were drafts of a Clinton administration "after-action" report on efforts to thwart the so-called "Millennium" plot, a suspected al Qaeda attack around the New Year's holiday in late 1999.
(snip)
The investigation has been under way since October(!!!!!!!)

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/07/20/berger.probe/

Has this been posted? THIS HAPPENED IN OCTOBER? Want to see a less hysterical slant?
mods-please delete if dupe

[maddezmom]

1. thanks for posting...saw it on CNN

poor bushco, don't think this is going to be enough to get the 9/11 report off the front pages.

[maddezmom]

4. WHY NOW???

~snip~
The investigation has been under way since October, and its disclosure the week before the Democratic National Convention in Boston -- and just days before the 9/11 commission is due to release its report -- led sources close to Berger to question whether the news was leaked for political reasons.

"This has been kept confidential for months," a former Clinton administration colleague said. "So why now?"

But an administration source told CNN that any suggestion the Justice Department leaked the investigation on purpose now is "simply not true."

~snip~

[lancdem]

That Bush source is full of shit

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

2. Wait a minute here...

What's not listed is when these documents were allegedly taken. Anyone got information on that? It had to be before October. Let's piece together a timeline here.

[JoeRunion]

3. But what would we all be saying had Condi gotten caught slipping papers

into her purse from the same classified files?? I guarantee you there would be an uproar even if the explanation were the same as Berger's

[maddezmom]

5. don't know what you'd be saying

but I think the timing stinks to high heaven.

[leetrisck]

10. This is nuts - Berger would have been

testifying before the Commission while the investigation was going on. What investigation? Is any of this crap true? Why would he steal their own report? There seems to be so much missing from this story if it is a story.

[Shakespeare]

8. Nah.

These were copies, and it happened (and was known about) 9 months ago. It's a deliberately timed leak, and is absolutely meaningless. The uproar is not over the copies--the uproar is over the leak and why it was leaked when it was leaked. Don't fall for the manipulation.

There's no hay to make of this, whether it's Berger or Rice.

[Ruby Romaine]

11. If it was Condi how would we find out about it?

fox news?

[geek tragedy]

13. We wouldn't have heard about it

because aWol's servants wouldn't have allowed it to ever see the light of day, let alone leak it.

[Cocoa]

14. Berger did NOT slip any documents into his pants

or whatever the story said.

I guarantee you that was an embellishment fed to the willing AP reporter, just to give the story some flash.

All the Clinton faux-scandals had such salacious details, which were later found just to be spice for the whores.

[oneighty]

15. Hmmmm

Caller into C-Span say exact same thing this morning. That was you??

180

[JoeRunion]

20. Nope, but lot's of folks could imagine this scenario.

[oneighty]

24. Oh!

I thought perhaps you say that on C-Span.

Welcome to DU, I think.

180

[tom_paine]

17. It matters NOTHING what WE would be saying

What would Imperial Pravda be saying if Condi got accused by an "unnamed official"?

They would smear the "unnamed official" and righteously demand that they come forward.

Of course, as Imperial Pravda serves the Emperor alone, the only ones saying that are the Democrats, who are naturally belittled through the sides of Imperial Pravda's mouth.

I could care less about OUR double-standards. The fact that Imperial Pravda is now roighly akin to ChiCom media is what matters. The fact that it could be turned into something like it has is bad enough, even if it were as grotesquely slanted on our side as it is to the Imperial Side.

[Kool Kitty]

25. Joe, what do you think the reaction would be if it were

Rice? Even better question for you-would we even hear about it if it were Rice?

[maxrandb]

29. Well I would hope that like Mr Berger

She would cooperate fully, admit it and realize that even if she did nothing wrong..SHE WOULD RESIGN FROM ADVISING BUSH, just like Berger has.

See, the difference my friend is that Democrats actually hold our folks accountable.

I would like to ask you, how would the Repukes react if Al Gore had told Bill Frist to "go fuck himself" on the Senate floor.

Don't try to play that game here. That stuff works with the Rush and Hanity kool aid drinkers, but you will find that when one of ours does something wrong, or illegal, the majority of the folks on this board will call them stupid and foolish and DEMAND accoutability. Refreshing isn't it.

That being said, I would like to do things the American way, and let the legal system handle this. When Mr. Berger is cleared of any wrongdoing, I hope you will come back and demand the administration release the names of those who commited treason by outing a covert CIA agent.

Cheney's undiscolsed location? He's with OJ looking for the "real" Plame leakers.

[JoeRunion]

30. Can you give me an example of this?

"Don't try to play that game here. That stuff works with the Rush and Hanity kool aid drinkers, but you will find that when one of ours does something wrong, or illegal, the majority of the folks on this board will call them stupid and foolish and DEMAND accoutability. Refreshing isn't it"

I haven't thought of one yet.

[maxrandb]

33. Glad you asked for one

because I can give you several.

- It was revealed that the actual cost of the Medicare Bill was withheld, or even worse, low-balled on purpose so that those oh so moral publicans could threaten, and in one case, BRIBE a repub member to change their vote. Yet, not a word of it on Rush, or Insanity. Barely a peep out of other house repubs also. Couldn't be that they are kool-aid drinkers that would support this mis-administration no matter what, eh?

- A covert CIA agent was compromised by someone in the administration, yet no one has resigned, no one has come forward to cooperate (I mean without a Grand Jury subpoena), and I have yet to hear 18 hours of drumming per day on talk radio demanding someones head for what is basically treason! Turns out this CIA agent worked in the area of nuclear proliferation. Naw! No big deal there, better to talk about Kerry's haircut.

- This president fought every effort to establish a committee to look into the most terrible attack on American soil in our history. Once he lost that battle, he delayed and obfuscated every attempt to get information from his National Security Team. Not once did I hear any republican call that stupid and demand that evidence be turned over.

- Former First Lady Hillary Clinton was hounded daily and vilified for not turning over minutes of meetings on health care. The VP of the US met (at taxpayer expense) with various energy industry people to write the "nations" energy policy. Yet we as Americans just don't have a right, or any reason to find out what they talked about. Just the other day, I was commenting that it's great that fox news and various other members of the RNC were forcefully demanding that the info be shared with the American people...Oh wait, that will happen when monkeys fly out of my ass.

- Amazingly, of the hundreds of millions of records that the military maintains (my dad served for two years in 1942, and they can still find his stuff) only records that would prove the president fulfilled his obligation to the country, when other boys his age were coming home in flag draped coffins, were "inadvertently" destroyed, ALONG WITH ANY ORIGINALS OR COPIES! Oh well, as the media has proved with this story "shit happens". Better to explore whether or not a man that pulled a shipmate to safety with his bare hands and still carries a chunk of shrapnel around in his ass, really deserved ONE of the THREE purple hearts he was awarded.

The post on Berger on this board are running 9 to 1 that if he did something wrong or illegal, he should be held accountable. Go back to freeper land where you can all masturbate about your wonderful president who is too a cowboy, even though he is afraid of horses, was born and will be buried in New England, and when his country needed him IN COMBAT, he found something else to do. It's all good. If you have an R after your name you can do no wrong.

[JoeRunion]

37. Wrong types of examples.

I was asking about Democrats doing bad things and being called into question about them on here. You mention the Berger thing, claiming it's 9 to 1 in here in favor of holding him accountable should he be found to be guilty. Funny, that isn't at all the tone on this little thread. They are more like 9 to 1 the opposite; in the same vein as yours. It's more like; "Berger is a victim of a RW media trashing and for you to even suggest that Rice would have been treated differenly makes you a RW freeper."
So again, give me an example of a Democrat committing wrongdoing and people here calling him on the carpet..which you say is done here.

[maxrandb]

38. You obviously haven't spent much time here

Go through the Berger threads specifically and you will see the majority of people here saying that he was "stupid", "he should have known better", "he's going to need to explain this", "let's find out what happened, but he needs to be held accountable", "Kerry needs to dump him, even the appearance of impropriety is enough", and my personal favorite, "we're not like the freepers, if he did something wrong, he WILL be held accountable"

Those my friend are just from one topic, Sandy Berger. Go look at some of the threads during the primaries. Lot's of DEMS being held accountable there.

Now, I will not waste my time. If you want to continue discussing this, then please show me ONE item where any, ANY! repub has demanded accountability of anyone in this mis-administration.

[Ripley]

39. Type in "Lieberman" or "Zell" or "Dean" in search...

and you will find a lot of calling out.

Of course, in Dean's case it was freepers accusing him of being racist.

[riverwalker]

32. big difference

Condi screws up: 1000 soldiers DIE, thousands wounded, 5000 civilians are buried in the sand.
Berger screws up: no harm is done, the so called "classified" documents are insignificant details of a foiled millenium plot they stopped, after the fact.
There is no comparison.

[librechik]

6. And concluded in January, with no charges issued. n/t

[Tempest]

Why Now? It's Simple

Halliburton admitted yesterday they were under investigation for illegally doing business with Iran when Cheney was CEO.

[maddezmom]

21. yep, and the 9/11 report due out Thursday

and the Dem convention, and the poor poll numbers, etc.

[Guaranteed]

7. Just release the memos entirely

so that the public can see that he wasn't trying to hide anything.

[lancdem]

26. Since they're classified

I think only the 9/11 Commission can make that decision.

[Beetwasher]

9. This A PREEMPTIVE STRIKE W/ TWO PURPOSES

1. To pre-empt the 9/11 report that will look bad for Bush. See the thread on Hastert for the Repub spin of "What is Berger hiding? Why is he stealing documents to hide what Clinton did? Clinton must have been negligent or worse to let 9/11 happen and they're trying to steal and hide the proof!"

2. To muddy the Plame indictments when they come down. The Repubs will say "Well Berger is a traitor too!!".

[lancdem]

27. You got it

[aden_nak]

12. "Berger put secrets in his socks!" - the new Faux talking point.

Get ready for it. Pretty soon O'Reilly will be saying things like:

Bill - "It is well documented that he put these documents in his socks and shoes to smuggle them out."
Guest - "Really? I thought it was just a rumor."
Bill - "There are photos! Can you argue with photos?"
Guest - "I've never seen any-"
Bill - "YOU CAN'T ARGUE WITH PHOTOS! It's not my fault you don't know what's going on. Ignorance is no excuse here in the No Spin Zone."

[Cocoa]

16. you called it

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39541

<snip>

Though Fox News is reporting Berger and his lawyer said last night he knowingly removed handwritten notes by placing them in his jacket, pants and socks, CNN reports law-enforcement sources say some of the actual secret documents he reviewed were stuffed in his socks before leaving the room.

[aden_nak]

22. Damn it. I hate it when I'm right.

In about 2-3 weeks, it will be a "fact" that he smuggled papers out in his clothing. All of the pundits and show hosts will "know" it for a fact. It won't even be in dispute, really. There will be absolutely no proof to support the claim that they can present, but, ya know, they'll be shouting, which is LIKE having facts.

[bluestateguy]

18. Isn't there a surveillence tape that could address this matter?

In the presidential libraries I have been to there is usually a spycam in the reading room. I would think the national archives would have the same thing. I am always dubious of anonymous quotes from "sources" who are not man enough to go on the record.

[Zorra]

19. This is strange, and makes no apparent sense.

Unless the documents will expose a 9/11 commission whitewash or something of that nature.

"Rep. Duncan Hunter, the Republican chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, told the Fox news channel Tuesday that Berger may have taken the documents to help Kerry's campaign."

(Duncan Hunter has a really awful legislative record, BTW.)

Anyway, how could these documents possibly help the Kerry campaign, unless they expose some horrible thing that the republicans did wrong?
Duncan Hunter is the Chairman of the Armed Services Committee.

If the documents don't contain information that could seriously bust the republicans, it would not be worth Sandy's time and reputation for him to do this.

So, it was either an innocent, honest mistake, or some republicans are sweating.

[Mr.Green93]

23. Berger stepped down as Kerry advisor?

is this true?

[lancdem]

28. Yes, until the issue is resolved

[progressivebydesign]

31. Strange semantics change today... (classified is now "sensitive")

Yesterday, when this story broke.. they said that Berger took his own notes, and some "highly classified documents" with him. Today, they are only saying "sensitive documents".

Can I be honest? I think the guy is disorganized, and swept up some papers with his own notes. They said he brought back the papers, except he can't find one that he thinks he accidentally disposed of. So.. the FBI, etc. have searched his house, office, etc.???

1) I think the documents in question, if this happened months ago, were classified after the fact. This is how they tried to nail Richard Clarke. Remember? That's their trick. Classify after the documents are out there, then they can charge you with stealing classified documents. His own notes, I doubt, were classified.

2) Where is the fucking uproar over Bush and Cheney refusing to even hand over documents to the 9/11 Commission? What's the difference?

This is political witch hunt time.. and Berger is in the middle of it. But... of course, outing a CIA agent is no biggie.

[lovuian]

34. Can Someone tell me How Plame can be outed & No Uproar

that a CIA agent is outed and thats a felon

but Sandy goes and gets COPIES and has got such outrage

Where is the outrage over Plame's outing....

:crazy:

[Penndems]

35. You can add my name to the list

I can't believe this is the second time in three months I've had to defend someone I knew and worked with.

Suffice it to say that Mr. Berger is a decent, honorable man who, like Dick Clarke, Joe Wilson and Tony Lake, has given his entire adult life to serving the American people with honor, distinction, intelligence, decency, integrity and class. I'd say much, much more but, to be perfectly candid, I've been so G-D angry about this, I'm afraid I'd go off on a rant. Maybe tomorrow when I've cooled down somewhat.

What in the name of God is HAPPENING in this country when we take the word of bottom-feeding, low-life, diseased, twisted criminals who've crawled out of the sewer over someone of impeccable character like Sandy Berger? Here's a man whose embodies everything virtuous, noble and upright about this country -- who, unlike the scumbags in the Republican Party, has put Americans -- his CONSTITUENTS -- first and foremost, even ahead of his personal life, and the so-called "liberal press" is running a character assassination on him (no doubt with more than a little help from those pillars of morality, David Bossie and Karl Rove). OF COURSE IT'S POLITICAL: With one week to go until the convention and Kerry ahead in the polls, why would it be anything BUT?

I've got a question for the editors of The Washington Post: Why in the HELL would you publish a hit piece written by a "journalist" like Susan Schmidt who's got such an obvious right-wing bias without bothering to check it out first? Did it ever occur to you that maybe you've got another Janet Cooke on your hands? Or hasn't it dawned on you yet that Whitewater, a issue Schmidt was panting over during the Clinton Administration was, in fact, a NON-issue after all? Wouldn't that, in and of itself, TELL you something?

As a native Northern Virginia who's been reading The Post for over thirty-five years, it's finally dawned on me: The days of real reporters like Woodward and Bernstein are OVER. Those were indeed your halcyon days. Your reputation as one of this country's preeminent dailies is fast deteriorating.

DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

[calimary]

36. Exquisitely good letter!

You sent that in, I hope? REALLY excellent! Mongo impressed!

[maddezmom]

40. even Woolsey is willing to give Berger the break on this one

DOBBS: And speaking of running our own government, I would like your comment, your thoughts on Sandy Berger, whom you know, as the former national security adviser, walking away with documents from the National Archive, classified documents, now under investigation, an investigation the Justice Department says it's taking seriously. Your thoughts on both that and the timing of the revelation that such an investigation is underway?

WOOLSEY: Well, it has to be looked into thoroughly and carefully. But I've known Sandy Berger for 20 years, and I find it hard to believe that he would maliciously or intentionally do something like this.

My -- you know, I had a security violation once when I was ambassador 15 years ago in Moscow. I had a classified document, and I was working on it in one part of the embassy, and I put it with some other papers and left it in the wrong part of the embassy, and I got a security violation.

Almost anybody who's worked on things like this has done something like this from time to time. I think we ought to withhold judgment until Sandy's story is out.

DOBBS: Jim Woolsey, thanks for being here to share your judgment about that issue and a host of others. Thanks.

WOOLSEY: Good to be with you.

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0407/20/ldt.00.html