Troops scale back Anbar patrols (US losing the whole province)

[Barrett808]

RAMADI, Iraq - After more than a year of fighting, U.S. troops have stopped patrolling large swaths of Iraq's restive Anbar province, according to the top American military intelligence officer in the area.

Most U.S. Army officers interviewed this week said the patrols in and around the province's capital, Ramadi - home to many Iraqi military and intelligence officers under Saddam Hussein - have stopped largely because the soldiers and commanders there were tired of being shot at by insurgents who've refused to back down under heavy American military pressure.

...

After losing dozens of men to a "voiceless, faceless mass of people" with no clear leadership or political aim other than killing American soldiers, the U.S. military has had to re-evaluate the situation, said Army Maj. Thomas Neemeyer, the head American intelligence officer for the 1st Brigade of the 1st Infantry Division, the main military force in the Ramadi area and from there to Fallujah.

"They cannot militarily overwhelm us, but we cannot deliver a knockout blow, either," he said. "It creates a form of stalemate."

In the wreckage of the security situation, Neemeyer said, U.S. officials have all but given up on plans to install a democratic government in the city, and are hoping instead that Islamic extremists and other insurgent groups don't overrun the province in the same way that they've seized the region's most infamous town, Fallujah.

...

Pointing to a neighborhood outside the town of Habbaniyah, between Fallujah and Ramadi, he said, "We've lost a lot of Marines there and we don't ever go in anymore. If they want it that bad, they can have it."

(much more)

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/world/9199601.htm?1c

Wasn't it just last week that an officer was telling his troops, "Ramadi must hold"?

[Beetwasher]

1. Things Are Not Going Well

Not at all...The rebels are winning...

[leftchick]

17. cofirms Robert Fisk's report posted this morning.....

The US has Afghanistan II! Too bad and so sad most of Amerika thinks Iraq and Afghanistan are success stories. On to Iran! :(

[mom cat]

22. I was thinking the same thing. Seems like the coalition was control

over the Green Zone,and not much else.

[sadiesworld]

2. Sounds like Afghanistan.

Oh well, we have our pipeline, oil, and military bases. On to Iran. :eyes:

[amandabeech]

31. Well, I don't know about the oil and the pipeline.

The pipeline between Kirkuk/Mosel through Turkey to the port of Ceyhan has rarely pumped any oil since we invaded. It is sabotaged, we fix it, and then it is sabotaged again within a couple of days.

The pipelines leading to the Persian Gulf ports are frequently sabotaged as well, although they do pump oil.

I also seem to recall reading that pipelines carrying crude to internal Iraqi refineries are frequently sabotaged, as well.

So, I'd say that so long as we stay in Iraq, we'll see a little oil coming out, and it won't necessarily go to the U.S.

If we leave, it is possible that the sabotage might stop if a government satisfactory to the vast majority of Iraqis is in power, but, again, there can be no guarantee that the oil will flow to the U.S. Instead, the oil might ease the overall market price a bit, unless the Chinese and Indian demand continues to spiral upward as fast as the Iraqis can increase their exports.

[DrWeird]

3. If I knew any conservatives I'd e-mail this to them.

I'd include:

Your boy failed at his oil business, failed managing a baseball team, and now he's failing in Iraq. Just what were you thinking when you voted for him?

[Barrett808]

4. Fisk: Central government authority in Baghdad controls only Baghdad

...Robert Fisk pointed out that few journalists are willing to leave Baghdad, and said he didn't blame them for that, but that he did blame them for not telling their readers and viewers that they won't drive outside Baghdad. Then he said:

"24 hours ago I got in a car with my driver and my colleagues, Iraqis all of them, on the road to Najaf, which is about 150 miles south of Baghdad. We had to drive down highway 8, which is one of the most dangerous roads in the country, because on this road at least 15, possibly as many as 25, westerners have been murdered by insurgents. We drove right down this road to Najaf. And it was like a screen was pulled aside and I could see a reality. In the first 70 miles, every police checkpoint was abandoned. The road was littered with shot-through Iraqi police vehicles and burned American military petrol tankers.

There was a short period when there were some Iraqi police and soldiers on the road, and when we approached Najaf, the police stopped us and said we can't go any further, at which point I was handed over to al Sadr's Mehdi army which is the Shiite militia controlling the center of Najjaf. A young man took me into the holiest Shiite shrine, beautiful shrine, and in an airconditioned office there I met the righthand man of Moqtada al Sadr. He produced a map of the ceasefire between the US forces and Shiite forces in Najaf. It was an American map, a US military map, upon which he had drawn several lines. And he had drawn the lines whereby the Americans could use these roads, these particular roads, to resupply their bases, but the Americans otherwise had to stay in the bases, and that was the ceasefire plan.

It was quite extraordinary and very humiliating, I suppose, militarily, in that a Shiite militia official should be able to give me a U.S. map showing the restrictions on the deployment of U.S. troops in Iraq. And more than this, he then complained that the US troops had broken the ceasefire agreement, and said, 'The only issue outstanding in the ceasefire agreement negotiations is that the charges against Moqtada alSadr of killing Assayed (a very vulnerable and prowestern cleric in Najaf last year) should be lifted.' and this was the reason for the whole war, for which former US proconsul Paul Bremer lanched against the Shiite milita back in April

So what I realized -- I did a 350 mile round trip by road and I don't carry security with me, I had one Shiite cleric in my car -- was that the central government authority in Baghdad controls only Baghdad -- just like Afghanistan, where Karzai controls only Kabul. So the same applied here. The central government which was set up and controlled by the U.S. controls only Baghdad. We know that the cities of Aquba, Samarra, Ramadi, Fallujah in the Sunni areas, and indeed Mahmoudiyah, are outside government control. Now I learned that 70-100 miles south of Baghdad, by traveling there and seeing with my own eyes, is outside government control. Alas, our journalists, with one or two exceptions (I'm not the only one who's traveling) prefer to stay in the hotels, and they talk about the new Iraq, and they go to press conferences in carefully concealed areas of Baghdad where American-appointed officials say things are getting better."

(more)

http://www.kpfa.org/cgi-bin/gen-mpegurl.m3u?server=209.81.10.18&port=80&mount=/data/20040720-Tue1700.mp3

[aneerkoinos]

11. Fisk is wrong

They are not in control of Baghdad either. Sadr City of 4 million poor Shia belongs to Al-Sadr and Mahdi Army, not only belongs, it IS Mahdi Army; and the western Sunni districts of Baghdad are mostly loyal to their tribesmen fighting against occupiers in the Al-Anbar province, and revolted during the defence of Falloujah. Other that Green Zone, US is hardly in control of anything.

[burrowowl]

24. Links to an iTune

license agreement.

[Barrett808]

25. The link is to an mp3, and you have iTunes installed, you might get that

Can you accept the agreement and play? Or is there some other weirdness?

[David__77]

5. "The countryside surrounding the city..."

The maxim of successful guerrilla operations is to dominate those areas where state power is traditionally weakest--small towns and sparsely populated areas and areas with adverse geography. It does seem that ultimately the weak "interim government" will control only some cosmopolitan areas and lose the mass of people living elsewhere. The abandonment of Falluja represented a real, strategic retreat by US forces--the mujahideen learned that their strategy works.

[GliderGuider]

6. "If they want it that bad, they can have it."

Why does it surprise anyone that "they want it that bad"? It's their own freakin' country! If Murkan troops were conducting sweeps through Toronto or Calgary I'd sure try and pop me a couple.

[PurityOfEssence]

7. Fort Zinderneuf

Quite a gesture, huh?

[Barrett808]

20. That's a chilling thought

If we're heading for an outright military defeat, it will take a generation to recover.

[DoYouEverWonder]

33. What does that tell other countries

with real armies, air forces and nukes? That the USA isn't so hot shit after all.

From a national security point of view, this is not good.

[dbt]

8. 'Scuse me while I whip this out:

IRAQ NAM

:freak:
dbt

[tom_paine]

9. Sounds like Ambassador of Death Squads is just getting started

Not to worry, Bushevik Death Squads of Iraqis, almost indistinguishable from Husseini Death Squads, should fill the void soon.

[Barrett808]

10. Listen to the Fisk interview in post #4

He discusses this -- the only "professional" interrogators in Iraq are Saddam's guys.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

38. They'll last all of about five minutes.

[shockingelk]

12. How is Kerry going to deal with this?

You can't conduct elections in this environment. Why so many Dems wanted that job both baffles me and fills me with admiration.

But really, we all know the right-wing spin machine is going to convince their base that the reasons things aren't going swimmingly in Iraq are all Kerry's fault.

[Johnyawl]

16. Kerry should deal with this in January...

...by dispatching a select committe, led by Wesley Clark & John McCain to thouroughly assess the situation and report back to him. He should then immediatly hold a national press conference, flanked by those two men and give the American people the news as to how bad bushco let things get, and how much they lied to us.

[psychopomp]

18. Checked out your blog

Excellent analysis of the UPI story on nukes "found in Iraq." I'll definately be back to read more.

[fearnobush]

13. To put it bluntly...

Pointing to a neighborhood outside the town of Habbaniyah, between Fallujah and Ramadi, he said, "We've lost a lot of Marines there and we don't ever go in anymore. If they want it that bad, they can have it."

[Barrett808]

27. Yeah, too bad they didn't apply that reasoning *before* invading n/t

[gasperc]

14. who's they?? and good GOD what is happening to the decent folk

they are not all criminals but no doubt they are probably glad to see US troops out. boy this occupation has been a complete an utter diaster!!!!!!!!!!

[MaryH]

15. I Read That Article This Morning

According to the article we are just losing Iraq one city at a time to the warlords and the fundamentalists and whoever grabs control and hangs on.

Falluja - insurgents that are very fundamentalist

Baghdad - Allawi will be mayor

Sadr City
Najaf
Who knows what else - alSadr

Next we will hear that they are all starting to grow poppies and the entire country is really run by mob-like drug lords (sound familiar?)

I wonder what happens if Iraq just splits up into six or seven smaller countries?

[fizzana]

19. The doofus said "Bring It On" and they did.

I hope the Democrats use that quote in their ads leading up to the election.

[grob]

21. Sorry but there is NOTHING americans can do to make things better. Nothing

I could not find the original message on this but we have not forgotten... We never will. We never forget people without Honor. Far far better to die for freedom than enjoy life under opression. Some learn faster. But all learn it sooner or later. Iraqi's are beginning to learn.



Eman continued, “He began to tell what happened in the night of May 18-19. It was exactly the same story we got from every one else--the helicopters (Apache), the armored vehicles, the continuous heavy shooting, the paratroops, the black fighters and the killing of the injured.”

An old man sitting beside Rekaad said, “Let them give us one single evidence of what they say, anything. But they are liars. They slaughtered all these women and children; they even steal their gold and money.”

“How many people were killed in your family?” Khammas asked Rekaad’s brother. “25, many of them women and children,” he replied.

Khammas asked for a list, and they gave it:

1. Mohammad Rekaad, 28
2. Ahmed Rekaad, 26
3. Talib Rekaad, 27
4. Mizhir Rekaad, 20
5. Daham Rekaad, 17
6. Saad Mohammad Rekaad
7. Marifa Obeid, Rekaad’s wife
8. Fatima Madhi, Rekaad’s daughter in law
9. Raad Ahmed, grandson, 3
10. Ra’id Ahmed, grandson, 2
11. Wa’ad Ahmed, grandson, 1 month
12. Inad Mohammad, grandson, 6
13. Anood Mohammad, granddaughter, 5
14. Amal Rekaad, daughter, 30
15. Anood Talib, granddaughter, 2
16. Kholood Talib, granddaughter, 6 months
17. Hamid Monif, son in law, 22
18. Somayia Nawaf, wife, 50
19. Siham Rekaad, daughter, 18
20. Hamda Suleiman, wife, 45
21. Rabha Rekaad daughter, 16
22. Zahra Rekaad daughter,15
23. Fatima Rekaad daughter, 4
24. Ali Rekaad son, 12
25. Hamza Rekaad, 6

Five from a family called Garaghool also died, thirteen of the band and three photographic crew—thus, the total number of victims is 46.

Kholood, 8 months, Sabha, 22, Iqbal 14, Mouza, 12, Feisal and Adil, are still in hospital.

http://www.islamonline.net/English/In_Depth/Iraq_Aftermath/2004/07/article_04.shtml

[wolfgirl]

23. More and more

is coming out...we just have to keep demanding that it be told and be told and be told till everyone hears this!

Hammer at 'em, write/fax/phone your Congressional people, your newspaper editors, local news outlets, national news outlets, etc. We cannot rest...don't trust the polls and remember Bush & Co would and will do anything to maintain control and power!

[truthisfreedom]

26. god, this sucks. it's so stupid that we have to be happy that all of our

worst predictions are coming true just so we will have the leverage to get bush out... but once Kerry gets in, i sure hope he manages to make things better. Iraq is a nightmare!

[Barrett808]

28. If Ramadi falls, 'province goes to hell'

"...the importance of the fighting in this capital of Anbar province is not lost on the Marine high command. On a visit last month to Combat Outpost, an edgy exposed Marine base under frequent attack, the head of the 1st Marine Division, Maj. Gen. James Mattis, delivered a terse message to a chow hall full of men: "Ramadi must hold."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=680615

If Ramadi falls, 'province goes to hell'
Mon Jul 12, 6:40 AM ET
By Gregg Zoroya, USA TODAY
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/usatoday/20040712/ts_usatoday/iframadifallsprovincegoestohell&cid=676&ncid=1473

[Barrett808]

29. Also, check out this Fisk interview

http://www.kpfa.org/cgi-bin/gen-mpegurl.m3u?server=209.81.10.18&port=80&mount=/data/20040720-Tue1700.mp3

Cue it up to 8:10 to hear the interview.

Fisk: Central government authority in Baghdad controls only Baghdad
http://www.kpfa.org/cgi-bin/gen-mpegurl.m3u?server=209.81.10.18&port=80&mount=/data/20040720-Tue1700.mp3

...Robert Fisk pointed out that few journalists are willing to leave Baghdad, and said he didn't blame them for that, but that he did blame them for not telling their readers and viewers that they won't drive outside Baghdad. Then he said:

"24 hours ago I got in a car with my driver and my colleagues, Iraqis all of them, on the road to Najaf, which is about 150 miles south of Baghdad. We had to drive down highway 8, which is one of the most dangerous roads in the country, because on this road at least 15, possibly as many as 25, westerners have been murdered by insurgents. We drove right down this road to Najaf. And it was like a screen was pulled aside and I could see a reality. In the first 70 miles, every police checkpoint was abandoned. The road was littered with shot-through Iraqi police vehicles and burned American military petrol tankers.

There was a short period when there were some Iraqi police and soldiers on the road, and when we approached Najaf, the police stopped us and said we can't go any further, at which point I was handed over to al Sadr's Mehdi army which is the Shiite militia controlling the center of Najjaf. A young man took me into the holiest Shiite shrine, beautiful shrine, and in an airconditioned office there I met the righthand man of Moqtada al Sadr. He produced a map of the ceasefire between the US forces and Shiite forces in Najaf. It was an American map, a US military map, upon which he had drawn several lines. And he had drawn the lines whereby the Americans could use these roads, these particular roads, to resupply their bases, but the Americans otherwise had to stay in the bases, and that was the ceasefire plan.

It was quite extraordinary and very humiliating, I suppose, militarily, in that a Shiite militia official should be able to give me a U.S. map showing the restrictions on the deployment of U.S. troops in Iraq. And more than this, he then complained that the US troops had broken the ceasefire agreement, and said, 'The only issue outstanding in the ceasefire agreement negotiations is that the charges against Moqtada alSadr of killing Assayed (a very vulnerable and prowestern cleric in Najaf last year) should be lifted.' and this was the reason for the whole war, for which former US proconsul Paul Bremer lanched against the Shiite milita back in April

So what I realized -- I did a 350 mile round trip by road and I don't carry security with me, I had one Shiite cleric in my car -- was that the central government authority in Baghdad controls only Baghdad -- just like Afghanistan, where Karzai controls only Kabul. so the same applied here. The central government which was set up and controlled by the U.S. controls only Baghdad. We know that the cities of Aquba, Samarra, Ramadi, Fallujah in the Sunni areas, and indeed Mahmoudiyah, are outside government control. Now I learned that 70-100 miles south of Baghdad, by traveling there and seeing with my own eyes, is outside government control. Alas, our journalists, with one or two exceptions (I'm not the only one who's traveling) prefer to stay in the hotels, and they talk about the new Iraq, and they go to press conferences in carefully concealed areas of Baghdad where American-appointed officials say things are getting better."

[Barrett808]

30. "The US has given up"

The Fisk interview is amazing: he spoke with a Bremer-era official, who said that the only plan now is to "keep a lid on" the Iraq debacle until January, then bail and blame the inevitable failure on the Iraqis. "The Americans have given up." There's no neo-con ideology about democracy and markets, just cut-and-run in January.

That gives us some unhappy context for Anbar.

[rfkrocks]

32. Great Post

The way the media is covering the war, the truth has been so hard to get-how are we really doing?-these reports answer the question-the country is slipping into whatever transformation its next stage will be and American troops are just strapped onto this crazy illogical strategy the POTUS has declared-the real story is that Bushites are just trying to get through November and then leave asap-it wouldn't look good if Iraq descends further into chaos before the election if you run as the "war president"-you have to ask why are soldiers dying? What are they dying for? Anyone who thought the Iraqis people capable of a republic was smoking wacky weed-a tribal post colonial patchwork of a land-Iraq is just a Sudan, Rwanda or any other African country in turmoil EXCEPT it has oil. I dare anyone to come up with a coherent statement of why we are in Iraq-by staying what do we accomplish? I have no idea if Shrub has even a 3 week plan let alone a year plan-what a complete disaster!

[jeff5]

34. "We find that if we don't go there, they won't shoot us."

This guy must be a Ring Knocker. Only a West Point education prepares one to make such incisive analysis...

[pfitz59]

35. Army running out of gas?

Fisk's article talks of "burnt-out petrol tankers". Could the supply chain be in trouble?

[Barrett808]

36. Supply chain's been in trouble on several occasions

We've had a number of credible reports of drinking water shortages and ammo rationing in the ranks.

[pfitz59]

37. Napoleon 1812

Over-extended, lost in Russia. US 2004, over-extended, losing in Iraq and Afghanistan. History was never Dubya's strong suit....

[Media_Lies_Daily]

39. Nazi Germany, 1941: Overextended outside Moscow when the winter....

...hit first, followed by a Siberian army group Stalin had hidden in reserve. Result: The Germans were driven back by Soviet forces using the far superior T-34 tank about which the Germans had known absolutely nothing.

Nazi Germany, 1942: Overextended inside Stalingrad when the winter hit first, followed by the massive attacks of two huge armies that had not been known to German intelligence on both flanks of the German position in the city. Results: 1. The German 6th Army of about 250,000 men was reduced to a little less than 100,000 who were captured and led off to Soviet-style work camps. Only 5,000 Germans survived to see Germany about ten years later. 2. The Germans were driven back from their highwater mark in the USSR, and began the long road to ultimate defeat in 1945.

Midway, 1942: Overextended Japanese Naval forces are ambushed and decimated losing four carriers and hundreds of pilots they can ill-afford to lose. Result: The Japanese forces begin the long road to ultimate defeat in 1945.

France, 1954: Overextended at Dien Ben Phieu, the Frence forces are surrounded by the Vietnamese forces and forced to surrender. Results: 1. France quits Vietnam; 2. The U. S. under Eisenhower sends the first military advisors to Vietnam...which begins another story that should have been looked at very closely before jumping into Iraq.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

40. Report from Mesopotamia (Iraq.) 1920. From Lawrence of Arabia. Again.

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/lawrence.php
(August 2, 1920 Iraq Whistleblower Report)

This could have been written today.
>snip<

"...our unfortunate troops, Indian and British, under hard conditions of climate and supply, are policing an immense area, paying dearly every day in lives for the wilfully wrong policy of the civil administration in Baghdad. General Dyer was relieved of his command in India for a much smaller error, but the responsibility in this case is not on the Army, which has acted only at the request of the civil authorities. The War Office has made every effort to reduce our forces, but the decisions of the Cabinet have been against them.

The Government in Baghdad have been hanging Arabs in that town for political offences, which they call rebellion. The Arabs are not at war with us. Are these illegal executions to provoke the Arabs to reprisals on the three hundred British prisoners they hold? And, if so, is it that their punishment may be more severe, or is it to persuade our other troops to fight to the last?

We say we are in Mesopotamia to develop it for the benefit of the world. All experts say that the labour supply is the ruling factor in its development. How far will the killing of ten thousand villagers and townspeople this summer hinder the production of wheat, cotton, and oil? How long will we permit millions of pounds, thousands of Imperial troops, and tens of thousands of Arabs to be sacrificed on behalf of colonial administration which can benefit nobody but its administrators?"

[Barkley]

42. How about the Philippines in 1899?

Take up the White Man's burden--
Send forth the best ye breed--
Go bind your sons to exile
To serve your captives' need;
To wait in heavy harness,
On fluttered folk and wild--
Your new-caught, sullen peoples,
Half-devil and half-child.

Take up the White Man's burden--
In patience to abide,
To veil the threat of terror
And check the show of pride;
By open speech and simple,
An hundred times made plain
To seek another's profit,
And work another's gain.

Take up the White Man's burden--
The savage wars of peace--
Fill full the mouth of Famine
And bid the sickness cease;
And when your goal is nearest
The end for others sought,
Watch sloth and heathen Folly
Bring all your hopes to nought.

Take up the White Man's burden--
No tawdry rule of kings,
But toil of serf and sweeper--
The tale of common things.
The ports ye shall not enter,
The roads ye shall not tread,
Go mark them with your living,
And mark them with your dead.

...

*This famous poem, written by Rudyard Kipling urging Americans take over of the Philippines after the Spanish-American War in 1898.

Progressives immediately used the poem to highlight the evils of imperialism and colonialism.

[Barrett808]

41. Ramadi: No Shortage of Fighters in Iraq's Wild West

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x707907

No Shortage of Fighters in Iraq's Wild West
Marines in the key city of Ramadi dig in and wait anxiously for the battle to come to them. The goal isn't victory; it's to stave off chaos.
By Patrick J. McDonnell, Times Staff Writer
July 25, 2004

RAMADI, Iraq — Hunkered down in the turquoise-domed Islamic Law Center, a dozen Marines wait for the enemy to make its inevitable move. Insurgents equipped with Soviet-made sniper rifles keep the building in their cross hairs. Assailants with AK-47s and grenade launchers regularly peer from nearby alleys and roofs. Attacks can come from any direction.

The wait is unnerving, but it's better than being in the streets of this turbulent western city. A Marine convoy was attacked here Wednesday with a roadside bomb and as many as 100 insurgents unleashed a barrage of small-arms fire and rocket-propelled grenades in rolling firefights that lasted for much of the day. Thirteen Marines and one soldier were injured, and the U.S. military reported killing 25 fighters.

"When you walk on the streets, they can hide in every nook and cranny and you can never find them until they start shooting," said Marine Cpl. Glenn Hamby, 26, who heads Squad 3 of Golf Company. "Here, they have to come right to us."

This is what the war has come down to in Iraq's Sunni Muslim heartland, where providing tenuous security harks back to America's 19th century Indian Wars — a time when the cavalry set up outposts and forts in decidedly hostile territory. Ramadi is Indian Country — "the wild, wild West," as the region is called.

(more)

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-ramadi25jul25,1,6138812.story?coll=la-headlines-world