WP: Running Low on Ammo (

[kskiska]

The U.S. military has assembled the most sophisticated fighting arsenal in the world with satellite-guided weapons and unmanned aerial vehicles that shoot Hellfire missiles. But as billions of dollars have poured into the technology for futuristic warfare, the government has fallen behind on more mundane needs -- such as bullets.

The protracted conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan and heightened combat training with live ammunition have left the military short of small-caliber bullets. To offset the squeeze, the Army is taking unusual stopgap measures such as buying ammunition from Britain and Israel. It is also scrambling to ramp up domestic production.

"The big complex programs don't do any good if there aren't bullets for the rifles," said Marcus Corbin, a senior analyst at the Center for Defense Information, a research group based in the District.

Shortages in basic battlefield gear struck soon after the start of the Iraq war, when combat forces outfitted in high-tech uniforms faced a shortage of body armor and armored Humvees. The tight supplies of bullets reflect a shutdown of factories in recent years and the unexpected level of insurgency in Iraq, industry analysts said. The Army relies on one plant for its small-caliber ammunition, sharply limiting its options.

more…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A4044-2004Jul21.html

[Lucky Luciano]

1. In the words of Homer Simpson

D'OH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Syncronaut Seven]

15. Im gonna freak out

When they limit sales of ammo, for the "war effort" ya understand.

Stock up now.

[Elginoid]

2. no more bullets?

"...hey laughing-boy, did you hear that...? No more bullets!"

[gratuitous]

3. We're spending more than a billion dollars a day . . .

A billion dollars a day for defense. Every day. Sundays and holidays. And we don't have enough bullets. A billion dollars a day.


Fu-u-u-u-u-uck.

[Wickerman]

4. "The big complex programs don't do any good if there aren't bullets

for the rifles," said Marcus Corbin, a senior analyst at the Center for Defense Information, a research group based in the District.

See, that kind of wisdom is what makes Martin a Senior Analyst.

Not to ding on Martin, I'm sure he is a good guy, its just slightly scary that the military needs an analyst to tell them that.

[MikeG]

5. Hell, call in the NRA. They should be up to their ass in bullets.

[Zorra]

6. It's because Bu$h and the PNAC neocons are so stupid.

Of course, the United States must be prudent in how it exercises its power. But we cannot safely avoid the responsibilities of global leadership or the costs that are associated with its exercise. America has a vital role in maintaining peace and security in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East. If we shirk our responsibilities, we invite challenges to our fundamental interests. The history of the 20th century should have taught us that it is important to shape circumstances before crises emerge, and to meet threats before they become dire. The history of this century should have taught us to embrace the cause of American leadership.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm

We can not avoid the cost of global domination?

So where the hell is the money supposed to come from, especially after that moran in the WH cuts state revenue by legislating massive tax cuts for the rich?

Cut taxes and then go to war. Real slick. No more money, and our troops are running low on bullets?

If we don't get that idiot out of the WH soon, we are fucking doomed.

[UpInArms]

7. looks like it's time for me to post that nasty ticking time bomb

The estimated population of the United States is 293,790,550
so each citizen's share of this debt is $24,790.44.

The National Debt has continued to increase an average of $1.69 billion per day since September 30, 2003

[Zorra]

37. That 's obscene.

[Aidoneus]

8. buying (probably US-made) Zionist bullets to kill Iraqis..

What kind of brainless fool is writing this script?

[DoNotRefill]

25. zionist bullets???

:WTF:

[Aidoneus]

32. look at the article above

and others on this particular matter. They're running low, so they're turning to foreign companies to supply, an order with the state-owned "Israel Military Industries Ltd" alone for 70 million.

[DoNotRefill]

33. so does that make produce from Israel....

"zionist cabbage" or "zionist oranges"???

I'm thinking you're letting your hatred of "zionists" run away on you....

[Aidoneus]

36. I suppose so..

I wouldn't take it to such a level, as I don't remember the subject as such ever coming up. The closest I've gotten was talking about cereals coming out of the Jawlan in passing, but the term "Zionist grains" didn't come up then.

It just looks bad to kill Iraqis & Afghans with bullets from the enemy. I applaud the honesty, it just doesn't support the ridiculous facade that's been meticulously built up. I assume a real cabbage-head ("a stupid idiot" or equiv. in Hebrew slang) thought it up, but it's far from the only business that they are doing there. The forces of the Jordanian dictator have assisted in these and other crimes.

I don't let anything run away with me so as to obscure my good sense or logical abilities. I probably should sometime.

[DoNotRefill]

38. does it MATTER what kind of bullets are used?

are bullets made by IMI somehow worse than stuff made by Lake City Arsenal?

I'm positive IMI doesn't use pork products in their ammo. Some US manufacturers do, as a bullet lube.

[steely]

9. Yes, you too can become an analyst....

Weren't they were crying this tune a few months ago??

I could swear I read this before.

[TahitiNut]

11. Yup. Reported in May by the FT.

http://www.wmsa.net/news/MiscNewsSources/ft042705_bullet_shortage.htm

[TahitiNut]

10. "For want of a nail, the horseshoe was lost ..."

This is NOT a new lesson, folks. This is a lesson given every time the glory-addicts behind the lines get their jollies with the flashy shit.

Hire "big picture" people and you deserve what you get, dummy. They're spending more time droooling over the big bucks than doing the work.

[steely]

12. Here's something I found....read on

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04165/330581.stm
Sunday, June 13, 2004

<snip>....

When you go from 235 to all units, that is a very large increase to say the least," said Army spokesman Maj. Gary Tallman. "It took a while to ramp up."

<snip>....

Contrary to some news reports, there is no shortage of ammunition or of protective vests for U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, Tallman said.

<snip>....

Not shown --> Numerous hits on google of articles from May to the contrary.

WTF? Over

On edit - I see your post now TahitiNut - cheers

[gumby]

13. Bill Clinton

was accused of the same thing. I distinctly remember the wingnuts SCREAMING that Clinton didn't supply the armed services with bullets when they were under fire.

Anyone remember this?

Doesn't this seem strange? Through the last two administrations there are claims that our soldiers don't have bullets? This is unbelievable because 1)how is this possible? 2)where are all of those billions and billions and billions and billions and billions of dollars going if they can't even buy bullets for those that are sent to actually aim and shoot a gun at "our" "enemies?"

[Aidoneus]

14. Underestimating, I assume

There's quite a history of that in this country.. cf. taking picnics to Bull Run to see how the war ended, etc.

I guess whoever was in the planning committees either doesn't know basic military supply, didn't care, or actually bought into that "cakewalk"/"flowers and hugs" bullshit and just pumped the money into the flashy weapons catalog items.

[gumby]

16. pumped the money

into their own pockets is most likely.

The Overlords getting exceeningly wealthy while the Underclass doesn't have "bullets" to carry out the Overlords' wishes. Fey!

Seems that humanity has a way to go before the Underclass realizes that war is just another money making scheme for those who send them off to fight.

[wackywill]

22. Just a note

that was the battle of 1st Manassas, a victory for the Confederacy in the War of Northern Aggression. But your point is well taken.

[Aristus]

24. Northern Aggression, huh? The South fired the first shots.

More like the war to preserve slavery in the South. I'd welcome you to DU, but that sounds like disruptor talk.

[classof56]

27. I'd think you're joshin' us, but...

My daughter lived in Manassas a few years ago, and quickly learned the local take on the "War of Northern Agression".When I visited her we went to the site of the 1st and 2nd Battles of Manassas. One of her co-workers was a Civil War buff--oops, sorry...A War of Northern Agression buff. It's a matter of perspective, as are many things, but I do welcome you to DU. We must learn from history! And most importantly:

Bush Must Go!!

[WilliamPitt]

17. You've got. To be fucking. Kidding me.

We've done so much shooting that we are running out of bullets. Amazing.

[leesa]

18. We can buy it from the Iraqis now that Bush is selling them arms.

[Solly Mack]

19. Someones about to get paid and paid well

[leanings]

20. Mostly training usage.

Lot more "non-combat" folks getting shot at in this war and the military has had to ramp up training to levels that were previously reserved for infantry types. The "non-combat" soldiers aren't going to become dead-eye shots overnight and are also generally firing from vehicles so they rely a lot more heavily on machine guns, SAWs and 240s. This increases ammunition use exponentially, especially in training.

'Course, once upon a time there were no "non-combat" soldiers; everybody even went to the same Basic Training! And we had other headstamps on ammo other than "LC". Shocking, but true.

[Demonaut]

21. outsourcing bullets?, blame Clinton

he's the 21st century's scapegoat

[ElsewheresDaughter]

23. kick kick kick

[DemoTex]

26. In fighter pilot lingo this is called "Winchester."

Time to RTB.

[derby378]

28. Randi Rhodes: Transcript from 5/27/04

The story's been around for a while...here's Randi...

---

And, we are experiencing - hold on to your panties; this is amazing - a bullet shortage. Is that amazing to you? Holy crap, that was in the Financial Times, no less. The Financial Times says: "The United States asks private groups to ease bullet shortage." Bullet shortage! "The US Army cannot fight a war without its most basic necessity - bullets!" Oh, my God!

Well, I, I wanna make it, you know, uh, being a liberal, I know how to conserve, okay? Time to cut back on strafing weddings, you know? You do that, you might have some bullets when you need them. I don't know, it's, call me crazy, it's a theory I have.

A bullet shortage! I mean, torture aside, if we're running out of bullets, that's grounds enough to impeach Rumsfeld, I think! I mean, you know, it's just a theory, it's just something I operate under. Theories, you know. But if you ask questions about whether or not our troops have enough bullets, then you support the terrorists, so don't be asking these questions. But what better way to help the enemy, can I just say, than by running out of freakin' bullets?!

(Laughs) I've never seen anything, you know...

So I have one word, one word - Wal-Mart! They have bullets; go there! We must go where the bullets are! Wal-Mart!

We have cameras, we have shackles, we have women's panties, uhhh, what did we forget? Uhhhhh - BULLETS!!

[catmandu57]

29. Chinese bullets?

If they buy from malwart chances are pretty good that's where they came from. I heard a few years ago that there was a bullet shortage because of all the wwII generation dying, the army was seriously considering stopping firing a volley over the veterans, because they were running low. Of course they fire blanks over graves, I guess help is still on the way.

[derby378]

30. Wouldn't that be a pisser?

I can see the headlines now: COALITION FORCES RELY INCREASINGLY ON CHINESE-MADE BULLETS. As some Chinese might say, ai-ya!

[DoNotRefill]

40. chinese ammo imports were banned by Bush I.

eom

[leanings]

31. we don't import any chinese firearms or ammo

Executive Order. If we got desperate we could go to any country in NATO; standard ammunition.

[maxpower]

34. At least

They are supporting the troops. I guess there is not enough profit in bullets. The defense contractors like the expensive stuff, who needs bullets?

[midnight armadillo]

35. Military budget is a giant scam

Well, the military budget has been blown wide open by all this: nearly $500 billion a year and they STILL can't operate right. Why? Because too much of the budget exists as welfare to defense contractors, with endless waste, redundancy, inefficiency, and gold-plated super-duper weapons systems that don't work or are too expensive for use.

Many military members need food stamps to feed their families. They don't have enough bullets. Military housing is decrepit. the VA is chronically underfunded. But damn, we have plenty of $1 billion stealth bombers to play with.

I suspect they could slash the military budget by half and not effect the actual warfighting abilities one bit.

[Rebellious Republican]

39. But that would take away money President Bush’s $9.2 billion budget for

missile defense. Won't those defensive missiles take out insurgents on the ground and defend against terrorism in the US?

Study Group Questions Effectiveness Of Proposed Missile-defense System
CHAMPAIGN, Ill. — As the U.S. Department of Defense’s Missile Defense Agency ramps up efforts to have the first phase of a multiyear, multibillion-dollar "layered" national defense system in place by September – as mandated by President Bush – the agency’s fast-tracked plans have been hitting a few speed bumps.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/05/040511040830.htm