NYT- Correcting the Record on Sept. 11, in Great Detail

[Rose Siding]

WASHINGTON, July 24 — When the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States set to work early last year to prepare the definitive history of the events of Sept. 11, 2001, it seemed that much of the hard work of the so-called 9/11 commission was already done, because so much of the horrifying story seemed to be known.

At the time, it was understood that all of the hijackers had entered the country legally and done nothing to draw attention to themselves; Osama bin Laden had underwritten the plot with his personal fortune but had left the details to others; American intelligence agencies had no warning that Al Qaeda was considering suicide missions using planes; President Bush had received a special intelligence briefing weeks before Sept. 11 about Al Qaeda threats that focused on past, not current, threats.

But 19 months later, the commission released a final, unanimous book-length report last Thursday that, in calling for a overhaul of the way the government collects and shares intelligence, showed that much of what had been common wisdom about the Sept. 11 attacks at the start of the panel's investigation was wrong...........

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/25/national/25PANE.html?hp

[pss]

1. I started reading it yesterday...

...and it's quite chilling...

[mom cat]

2. Well, it's too little and too late. I just can't do back flips, but I guess

that anything is better than nothing.

[Rose Siding]

3. This is screwy

What here supports the conclusion that there should be a new cabinet level "czar"? I'm halfway through but what I see is that a slew of people should be fired, some leadership should be replaced and a commitment to inter agency cooperation should be demanded.

snip>
The commission found that the visa applications of many of the hijackers had been filled out improperly; in several cases, the hijackers had provided demonstrably false information on the forms. The names of at least three of the terrorists were found after Sept. 11 in the databases of American intelligence and counter terrorism agencies.
-----------

So who at State that approved improper apps for visas was canned and stripped of pensions? Who's respnsible for the regulations that don't require that info provided on visa apps be verified?

Nothing argues that the Patriot Act's stronger surveillance laws were necessary. Nothing supports the creation of any more bureaucracies- *At most* perhaps some kind of liaison office to ensure that turf is renegotiated, and they should report to Congress.

[KT2000]

6. Doesn't Bush have czars already?

The intelligence czar idea seems to me the worst solution to the problem. I thought that Bush/Cheney had their own intelligence group in the WH that picked and chose the intelligence they wanted to use to justify the war in Iraq.

Wouldn't having a cabinet level czar just further politicize the intelligence?
I don't get why they ever came up with this solution - supposedly unanimously.

[Zorra]

11. I hope our legislators are very thoughtful and careful about the wording

of legislation regarding the creation of a highly centralized police agency, and adamant about restricting these powers within the limits of the constitution with regard to our civil liberties, or subsequent legal interpretation could rapidly lead to a very repressive organization if Bu$h is re-selected.

Gestapo:

The Geheime Staatspolizei (German for Secret State Police, abbreviated "Gestapo") was formally organized after the Nazi's seized power in 1933. Hermann Göring, the Prussian minister of the interior, detached the espionage and political units of the Prussian police. And staffed them with thousands of Nazis. Göring became the commander of this new force on April 26, 1933. At the same time that Goring was organzing the Gestapo, Heinrich Himmler was directing the SS (Schutzstaffel, German for "Protective Echelon"), Hitler's elite paramilitary corps. In April of 1936 he was given command of the Gestapo as well, integrating all of Germany's police units under Himmler.

Later in 1936, the Gestapo was merged with the Kriminalpolizei (or "Kripo," German for Criminal Police). The newly integrated unit was the called the Sicherheitspolizei (or "Sipo," German for Secret Police). In 1939, during the reorganization of the German armies, the Sipo was joined with an intelligence branch of the military known as the Sicherheitsdienst ("SD," meaning Security Service). After this merger, the Sipo became known as the Reichssicherheitshauptamt ("RHSA," meaning Reich Security Central Office), and was headed by Reinhard Heydrich. Because of these frequent changes, the functions of the Gestapo became blurred, and often overlapped with those of the other branches of the German forces.

During World War II, the Einsatzgruppen (Task Force) was formed, and came to be an integral part of the Gestapo. It was the Task Force's job to round up all the Jews and other "undesirables" living within Germany's newly conquered territories, and to either send them to concentration camps or put them to death.

The army units within the Gestapo were taught many torture techniques, and were also taught many of the practices that German doctors in Dachau tested on the inmates of concentration camps. The Gestapo, during its tenure, operated without any restrictions by civil authority, meaning that its members could not be tried for any of their police practices. This unconditional authority added an elitist element to the Gestapo; its members knew that whatever actions they took, no consequences would arise.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/Gestapo.html

SS:

With the agreement of Adolf Hitler, Himmler expanded the size of the SS. Himmler personally vetted all applicants to make sure that all were good 'Aryan' types. In 1932 Himmler introduced all-black uniform of the SS.

By the time the Nazi Party gained power in 1933 Himmler's SS had grown to a strength of 52,000. He was also made head of all German political police outside Prussia, where Hermann Goering was the minister of the interior.

Himmler agreed with Goering that the Sturm Abteilung (SA) posed a threat to the German Army and in June 1934, along with his loyal assistants, Reinhard Heydrich, Kurt Daluege and Walter Schellenberg, he arranged what became known as the Night of the Long Knives.

As a result of this purge the SS was now the principal instrument of internal rule in Germany. In 1936 the Gestapo also came under Himmler's control. Himmler was also able to put SS men in all the key posts in Nazi Germany.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERss.htm

[HysteryDiagnosis]

7. Who at State?

>>So who at State that approved improper apps for visas was canned and stripped of pensions? Who's respnsible for the regulations that don't require that info provided on visa apps be verified?<<

I remember seeing a visa office dude from "over there" who stated that he was SCREAMING about these violations and was told from on high "let them go".



http://www.oilempire.us/911families.html
>>Most of the 19 hijackers were young, unmarried, and un-employed males. They were, in short, the "classic over-stay candidates". A seasoned former Consular officer stated in National Review magazine, "Single, idle young adults with no specific destination in the United States rarely get visas absent compelling circumstances."
Yet these 19 young single, unemployed, "classic overstay candidates still received their visas." I am holding in my hand the applications of the terrorists who killed my husband. All of these forms are incomplete and incorrect.<<

[Miss Authoritiva]

9. If these classic overstay candidates were from Colombia or any other

country on the narco-trafficking list, they never would have made it into the country.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

12. If these classic overstay candidates<<

I do believe you have hit the nail on the head.

If I had a hammer... I'd hammer in the evening...

But I would not hammer on a country that has already taken such a beating from us that it can hardly stand up.... true that.

Shrub is toast.

[tsm11]

4. removing balance of powers

Seems to me that overhaul they outline is probably geared more towards removing the balance of powers and oversight that exists among the branches of "defense" intel gathering communities.

State-level and FBI agents unearthed rusing info on 9/11. (Good thing media's already been coopted)

[newyawker99]

10. Hi tsm11!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[stepnw1f]

5. Saudis Did Not Aide Al Qaeda In Any Way At All?

hmmmmm... mabe not govt officials

[HysteryDiagnosis]

8. Saudis Did Not Aide Al Qaeda In Any Way At All?

Saudis Did Not Aide Al Qaeda In Any Way At All?<<

Not so fast... and just what is the difference between their "govt" and their "royal families"? What is the difference between ours?

http://www.posner.com/Reviews/asia%20times%20WAS.htm
>>Once the contents of the confessions were passed on to the Saudis and Pakistanis last year, first the two governments came back with nearly identical responses, saying that the allegations were false and malicious. Then the men named by Zubaydah started dying one by one. Prince Ahmed died on July 22, 2002, of a heart attack at the age of 43, and a day later Prince Sultan was killed in a car accident while driving to Ahmed's funeral. No other car was involved in the crash. Prince Fahd "died of thirst" a week later, according to an announcement from the royal palace. It doesn't get much stranger than that. Then in February this year, Mir was killed along with his wife and 15 other officers and aides in a plane crash near Kohut. The weather was clear, but reports at the time said that the pilot had been changed just minutes before take off.<<