Dems close convention door to Moore

[demoman123]

GENESEE COUNTY
THE FLINT JOURNAL FIRST EDITION

The Democratic Party apparently doesn't want Michael Moore.

The famed filmmaker who delivered a major assault on the Bush administration in his blockbuster film "Fahrenheit 9/11" was declined credentials to the Democratic National Convention in Boston next week, according to Sam Riddle, a longtime political consultant and friend of Moore.

"He's done more to galvanize the (Democratic Party) than anyone else," Riddle said. "He's just very hurt. That's all."

Riddle released to The Flint Journal on Friday portions of an e-mail Moore sent him about the snub.

"Can you believe the Dems are not going to give me credentials?!" Moore said in the e-mail signed "mm."

Moore, a Davison native, could not be reached for comment at home or through his publicist. Officials for the Democratic National Convention did not return a phone call seeking comment. A woman who answered the phone at the convention press office paused when asked about Moore and said someone would have to call a reporter back.

http://www.mlive.com/news/fljournal/index.ssf?/base/news-22/1090664413264440.xml

[warrior1]

1. I doubt

they would do that.

I don't see anything about this on his site.

I hope it isn't true.

[demoman123]

2. Click on the link and read the rest of the story. NT

[Rose Siding]

6. You mean this?

"Those events are all separate from the actual convention, however."

I hope this is some kind of mistake.

[asjr]

4. If it is true it certainly isn't good politics. Is Moore a Democrat?

[tooie]

105. he's a regiestered d in NY

eom

[teach1st]

3. I'm an independent..

I'd never not vote Kerry, no matter how wimpy the Democratic party becomes. But if this is true, it's really disappointing.

[Bombtrack]

5. Jesus Christ. I'm calling and E-Mailing everyone I know who's involved

in the convention. I know alot of people involved in the national college democrats who know alot of people. Instead of moaping. WE NEED TO ACT. RIGHT NOW. It is not too late to change this.

We are the largest democratic community on the internet. Let's make it clear that WE WILL NOT STAND FOR THIS INJUSTICE !

First I need to wait for confirmation that this is true.

[LibertyorDeath]

12. If It's True.... Let Me Know What I Can Do To Help.

[Seabiscuit]

86. Right on!

Instead of moping around, let's mobilize and get those e-mails flying. MM deserves not only to be able to attend the convention, he deserves time on the podium with a microphone in his hand.

[mzmolly]

7. Ok, this is crap!

Though Moore did trash the Senate, and did not tell the full story of the CBC so???

But, I don't know if this is true just yet...

[Zhade]

17. What, pray tell, was the "full story" of the CBC he didn't tell?

NT!

[mzmolly]

20. Not gonna hijack the thread but...

story has it the CBC didn't ask people in the senate to sign the objection, and if they had the matter would have went to the Republican house for a decision.

But, none the less, I heard he will be attending the convention, so I am not ready to embrace the story just yet?

[Zhade]

23. Um...I saw them ask with my own eyes.

So, "story has it" is hardly definitive.

[mzmolly]

29. The time to ask is before you present it to powers that be...

Though in all fairness, it was an unprecidented event, so not all ducks were in a row, KWIM? I am not blaming anyone personally.

No one is to blame but the Bushistas.

[Zhade]

30. KWIM? What's that mean?

New one to me!

However, we disagree - I think the failure of the Dems to protest and fight against a stolen election was also a factor. Not as much as the active theft on the part of the Republicans, of course, but, well, silence is complicity.

[mzmolly]

36. They fought like hell all the way to the supreme court.

And going any further would have turned the decision over to the R's in the house.

KWIM = Know what I mean ;)

[tooie]

106. he is attending....

just not allowed on the front of the bus. he's meeting off-site with folks and screening films.

[LibertyorDeath]

8. This Better Be Bogus!

What I Mean To Say Is

THIS BETTER BE FUCKING BOGUS!!!! :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:

:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:

[OKNancy]

114. It is

Bogus that it

[Maeve]

118. Another THANK YOU for setting the record straight!

It's so easy to get the wrong message in things like this--all a mistake, no real harm, no foul.

[IndianaGreen]

121. It wasn't bogus!

You didn't even read the story you posted. Moore was kept out of Convention. Moore complained about it on an e-mail on Thursday. The e-mail became public. The issue was resolved!

Read the entire story you posted. HINT: Moore uses "NOW" in the title.

http://www.mlive.com/news/fljournal/index.ssf?/base/news-22/109075981643830.xml

[lovuian]

9. It only shows that Moore has shown the wimpy ones up

He can take immense pride that he did something that No One else could do in the Democratic Party...Tell Americans the truth about the
election

The democrats just sat there and let Bush take over this government

They know they have been shamed too

His Motives is more positively revealed not being a buddy of the democratic Party

[IndianaGreen]

10. Michael Moore is antiwar and anti-PATRIOT Act

I believe that people that hold such views are being kept surrounded by barbed wire inside the "free speech" pen.

[Cha]

11. Moore also dropped nader in 2000 when he

wouldn't stop campaigning in swing states. At least this is what I've heard.

"Traditionally, Moore has not had a chummy relationship with either major parties. He was a vocal critic of Democrats and Republicans - calling them virtually indistinguishable - in the 2000 presidential election when he actively campaigned on behalf of Ralph Nader on the Green Party ticket."

I hope this isn't true .. " "Michael Moore should not have to go through the back door of the Democratic primary," Riddle said.

***

[LibDemAlways]

13. First they sanction a razor-wired

internment camp for protestors. Then an unnamed spokesperson claims that America will see so much red, white, and blue people will think they are watching the repukes. Then they deny credentials to Michael Moore - while giving them to whores like CNN and FAUX.

I hate the repukes as much as anybody on DU, and I want the chimp gone in Nov, but this march to the right sucks.

[Walt Starr]

16. Starting November 3rd: My target for removal from office

are Democrats.

[He loved Big Brother]

50. Same here

Amen to that Walk Starr. I am 24, I have a lot of voting years ahead of me. And I don't plan on wasting them on wimps, as I myself am NOT a wimp.

[jmcgowanjm]

116. That's right. n/t

[Algomas]

94. No surprise...

Kerry is the limpest candidate. He is like putty. There is none of that "vision thing" about him. Yes he is better than the all too real madman at the wheel but Kerry will need to feel a lot of pressure from us if we want change.
It's hard to believe that in light of the dire crossroads we approach, politics as usual goes on. My study of recent history has given me a pretty good idea of what is to come. It is a wicked perversion of "National Security" that will stifle the essential freedoms our founders created. A reign of terror, super cops, snitches, violence, despair.
Yet Kerry bumbles along following his snout towards the Golden Trough.
Wake the Cheney up you moran or we will lose our country!!!

[Speed8098]

99. "Yet Kerry bumbles along following his snout towards the Golden Trough"

Oh yeah, he's been "bumbling" for 30 years as a Senator.

He's one of the most liberal Senators in the House, and YOU call him putty?

Get real.

[Sparrow]

14. Moore has done more for Kerry than Kerry

has done for himself.
Welcome to the club , Michael...dont expect a voice no matter how hard you work for the party.
See you at Boston mini-gitmo.

[sally343434]

I assume they have to do these things

I assume they have to do things like this (including the previously posted, but unverified, claim that Aljazeera can't have a banner on their news booth) because, otherwise, they'd just be feeding raw footage to use in a Bush commercial.

You know, "Hello. I'm Dumbya. 'n I 'prove o' this here ad!"

"John Kerry. Consorts with the enemy. (shot of Aljazeera banner with Jane Fonda's picture floating around it} Supports those who hate america! (picture of Moore at convention) Questionable sexual practices! (Kerry & Edwards embracing) Marries other men's daughters! Can america trust John Kerry? (Kerry's face morphs into Saddam) Vote Bush/Cheney in 2004. They love america so much, they're hell bent on destroying it!

[Zhade]

21. Yes, God forbid we stand up for the TRUTH.

Instead, let's roll over and accept the fascists' demands, knowing full well that they will never play fair no matter how many times Dems cave into their demands.

[Isere]

15. Well, Moore isn't a Democrat, is he?

To be credentialed you need to be a Democrat, unless I am mistaken. Has Moore endorsed Kerry? I don't think so.

On the other hand, Ron Reagan, Jr. isn't a Dem. either, but I think he is attending as an invited speaker only and won't be attending the convention otherwise.

I have mixed feelings about this, frankly. I do agree that Moore has done wonders to galvanize the left and some undecideds, but he has also galvanized the right (witness what has happened to singer Ronstadt).

If he were to appear at the convention, his work would automatically be seen as having received the imprimatur of the Democratic Party. That is how it would be spun in the press, at any rate.

This convention should be about building up the nominee and presenting him to the public. My feeling is that Moore would be a big distraction from that goal.

[Cha]

19. I don't think Michael will be surprised if this is true

..I know I'm not. I'm still going to wait and see, though..

[lovuian]

25. Moore just won the Cannes Award and a Oscar ..Invite HIM

I think Moore can bring in the Independants Here...Stick out your hand Democrats and give him a Hug

Evidentally Democrats are scared of him...thats not a good sign
Showing that they are again Wimps ....

[Rose Siding]

27. You could spread the lives of any 5 dem delegates across the front pages

and get some really good dirt. Should their imperfection keep them out? The repubs and the media could empty the arena if we let them.

The knees are buckling here unnecessarily. Moore wants Bush OUT. Did they think he'd cause mayhem?

[Columbia]

77. Yes, he is a Democrat

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0628041moore1.html

New York City Board of Elections records show that Moore, 50, registered to vote in Gotham in 1992, checking off "Democratic" as his party affiliation (below you'll find a copy of his original registration form). He listed his address as the swanky Upper West Side building where he owns a multimillion dollar condominium (Moore's office is on West 57th Street). The filmmaker's New York registration remains active, though he has not voted since an October 2001 Democratic runoff election.

[Classical_Liberal]

109. He's a member of the media, and I doubt the repukes do this to

Rush.

[Az_lefty]

18. This is outrageous

somebody really fu*ked up. They need to fix this! Moore has done more
for this party than anyone else.

[Keirsey]

28. hmmm

I didn't care for what I inferred from Moore regarding Gore presiding over the session where the black Congressmen and Congresswomen protested. It was right to cast a light on the Senators who would not sign, but not right to imply that Gore was at fault. Gore was performing the duties of his office, and following the rules.


Question: Didn't Moore last support Nader?

[wtmusic]

33. I didn't get that implication at all

what was there besides Gore doing his job?

[depakid]

38. There was no implication....

No inference there at all. Only FACT. Not one Democratic Senator signed on. Not one.

If that's an issue, far better to admit the obvious mistake, set the record straight as to why it was made, apologize- and say (and mean) that it'll never happen again.

What's so difficult about that?

[WhereIsMyFreedom]

75. I inferred something else

It looked to me like Gore was miserable having to enforce the rules when he clearly agreed with black Congress men and women. I didn't see any implication that Gore was at fault there.

[BattyDem]

22. Oh, this is just brilliant!

First we've got that lovely internment camp ... oops, I mean free speech zone ... outside the Fleet Center and now we've got the DNC denying credentials to a man who is not only a hero to the left wing of the party, but is the person who gave a much needed wake-up call to at least half the population, which has no doubt boosted the Kerry Campaign.

Is it just me, or is it looking more and more like the Dems are going to blow it ... AGAIN! :grr:

:wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

Kerry was not my first choice - or even my second choice - for the nomination, but I've gotten behind him 100%. If this story is true and if nothing is done to correct this "error" ... I will consider it a major "F*CK YOU!" from the Dems. :evilfrown:

[Kolesar]

24. I think Dean done more to galvanize the (Democratic Party) than anyone

Who really gives a flying goose about this? One's time is better spent on a phone bank.

[Skip Intro]

26. I guess I'm in the minority here

Moore is a lightning rod now. Am I the only one who sees how having him at the convention would be a rw driven media obsession? It would be handing the slime on the other side a golden opportunity to overshadow Kerry's message and vision with dramatic and false outrage. Look at the Wellstone memorial. Look at Cho, Whoopi, and Rondstadt. Hell, look at the anti-recount thugs from 2000.


I wish MM could be there, but I am now at the point where I can accept some things I disagree with from Kerry/Edwards, if it will help them win. Not anything, but some things. This is one of those things.

[Auntie Bush]

48. I agree...he would get ALL the media attention and Kerry would

get none..That's all the media would talk about. Also might turn off some independent voters. Kerry can stand up to principle...after the election.

[tooie]

107. so MM was just a....

usefule idiot. that doesn't reflect well on anyone in this case....

[wtmusic]

31. And the moral is: don't criticize Tom Daschle

or the Democratic Republican-Lite Elite.

They are shooting themselves in the foot, and sending votes to Nader.

[depakid]

32. Nothing new here

It's just a repeat of 2000- only in 2000, those of us who believe that we've been chased from the party had our own shadow conventions.

[Barkley]

34. Stupid White Men & Other Sorry Excuses for the State of the Nation

Micheal Moore should consider this snub as vindication of his previous work.

I wonder if Kerry/ Edwards would accept a financial campaign contribution from Micheal Moore?

[clydefrand]

35. I heard Michael Moore on an interview

a month or so ago. He said he is not a democrat. I take it he also isn't a repug. Perhaps he is one of those undecided voters??? Who knows...

[Cha]

40. I'm going out on a limb here and saying...

Moore is an Independent who wants bush out above all else and will vote for Kerry to further that cause.

[Columbia]

83. See post 77 - Moore is a Democrat

[Dr Fate]

37. If true, I disagree with it. LET MOORE ATTEND!!!

n/t

[mike_c]

39. I am so disgusted by recent decisions made by the dem...

...leadership! When do we get to take back our party?!

[Stew225]

41. Please let us know if this is true

because I want to do anything I can to protest it.

[reprobate]

55. Mike, there's only one way for citizens to be represented again.

The problem is that dem or repug, they all have to spend half their time raising money to run for re-election. And since most of their money comes from the corporate CEOs, they wind up being owned by the corporations. That's why we have so many dems voting with the repugs. They are not republicans, but they are owned by the same people that own the republicans.

The only way, IMO, to break the logjam is to remove the need to raise private money. By that I mean complete public funding of elections. This will put the people back in charge. Of course it would take away the power of the corporations and that's exactly why they will not permit it.

As an alternative, I would suggest that we elect all elected officials to a life term in office. Then each year we hold an election to determine if we let them live another year.

[rednek_Liberal]

74. As soon as we start using our V.O.I.C.E.

Voting
Out
InCumbents
Everywhere

[mandelion]

42. Well Moore did endorse Clark at one point..

He wrote a letter with his endorsement for Wesley Clark back when the primaries were about to start. So he has been supporting a member of the Demo party for quite some time.

Yeah the RW could use this as a reason to say, "look, the Dems let an anti-American in. Remember his Oscar speech. He's biting the hand that feeds him." They are going to look for any reason to make John Kerry seem like he's been partying with Castro and Bin Laden in order to help swing some votes.

This is where my frustation with the Dem party comes from. It's all about appearing to take the high road, even when the opposition is using every dirty trick in the book. We can't be afraid to stand up to the RW or anyone else.

[Rose Siding]

43. Edwards endorsed Edwards

There won't be *anyone* there that the RW couldn't say something creepy about!

[BattyDem]

45. Both Al Gore and Rep. Bob Menendez ...

endorsed Dean ... and they're speaking on Monday night.

[Manix]

44. if true, this comes straight from the DLC.

[Cha]

46. Oh yeah!

[Ruby Romaine]

47. a few thoughts about this

1-Mlive is pretty right wing, that's why I refuse to subscribe to our local newspaper, they will endorse Bush for sure so it could be BS.

2- Moore's statement on his web page does not mention attending the official convention-

July 21st, 2004 1:38 pm
MICHAEL MOORE HEADS TO BOSTON

Filmmaker and author Michael Moore will be traveling to Boston early next week on the invitation of the Congressional Black Caucus and the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees (AFSCME).

While in Boston, Mr. Moore will be honored by the Congressional Black Caucus and plans to address its membership. This event will take place at 4:00 in the afternoon on Monday, July 26th at the Sheraton Hotel in Boston.

Mr. Moore will also be on hand for a private screening of 'Fahrenheit 9/11' for the members of AFSCME the following day. He will lead the group in a discussion on the important issues raised in the film. This event will take place at noon on Tuesday the 27th at the Coolidge Corner Theater in Brookline, Massachusetts.

Mr. Moore will also be addressing a rally held under the banner Take Back America. Moore will speak to the group of five hundred or so progressive activists following an address by former Vermont Governor and Presidential hopeful Howard Dean. This event will take place at 3:00 in the afternoon on Tuesday the 27th at the Royal Sonesta in Cambridge, Massachusetts.

Of the opportunity to participate in these events surrounding the Democratic National Convention, Mr. Moore said the following:

"I'm deeply honored by the invitation to speak before these outstanding organizations. These groups are committed to standing up for the rights of all Americans and their efforts serve as a reminder that we can and must do more to ensure that this country will not stray from the ideals on which it was founded."

http://www.michaeJlmoore.com/words/index.php?id=99

[playahata1]

136. Fix your link. It's messed up. Thanks.

:)

[InkAddict]

49. Is this BS or S&B?

Course, perhaps the Michael Moore that stood behind me in line at F 9/11 wanted to go to the convention? Hey, we can spin too!

[lovuian]

51. Again the Black Caucus gets it right!!! Wake up DLC!!!

If Democrats don't take up the Anti War Banner the people are gonna get ticked off....

Moore represents those people

[Rowdyboy]

52. The quickest way to discredit and marginalize Michael Moore

is to have him active at the Democratic convention, on the floor or the stage. What about his independence, his objectivity, his deliberate distance from both parties. He is now an "honest broker" who freely speaks his mind and makes his movies. Treat him like a Democratic establishment figure and he becomes just another party hack.

Sorry, but I think most of you guys are just wrong. And I hope that Michael Moore has the integrity to keep a distance. He's already making several important appearances for us in Boston, don't ask the man to become a total party whore.

[Rose Siding]

58. Who's asking him to do that?

Or anything? It sounds like he just wanted to attend. -To be there. He could come out swinging after the election. Why tattoo 'enemy' on his forehead? Big tent and all...*snicker*

[BattyDem]

59. Here's why I'm upset ..

and though I certainly can't speak for anyone else who posted, I suspect that many have feelings similar to mine ...

I'm not "asking" Michael Moore to do anything for the Dems. I'm not saying he should attend the convention. I never expected him to be there in the first place. However, if the story's true and he wants to attend - not speak, just attend - and the Dems turned him down, then I do have a big problem with that. He is very popular with progressives and in recent months, he has done more for our Democracy than the Dems have!

If he wants to be there, he should be allowed to attend. If he doesn't want to, I'm not suggesting that the Dems invite him or that the progressives pressure him into going. I'm just saying that someone like him shouldn't be shut out if he wants to "join the party".

By the way, does anyone have another source for this? As the night goes on, I'm starting to agree with reprobate, who posted below - we should calm down and wait for more info. Something is a little strange about this - if "the snub" happened, I would expect it to be on Moore's website by now and it's not. Someone said the paper is right-wing and it is in Michigan so ... is it possible that the paper is trying to turn Michigan against the Dems for snubbing their favorite son? How's Kerry doing in the polls there?


edited: typo :eyes:

[Rowdyboy]

64. I agree with you 100%. Why don't we WAIT for MM to make his feelings

known. He's not particularly shy, so if he's upset I'm sure he'll let us know. Why get worked up about a problem that hasn't even occurred yet?

I've seen nothing from Moore to make me think he even WANTS to attend the convention.

[AirAmFan]

53. Devil's Advocate Post: Why would Kerry want Moore at official Democratic

Party Convention events? And why would Moore want to be part of the Convention, in any role other than independent filmmaker or honoree of particular groups within the Democratic coalition?

It seems to me that Moore's greatest value to Kerry lies in F911's potential to appeal to independent voters, new voters, and wavering suppporters of Bush last time. If these people saw Moore at the convention, say holding uplifted hands with Kerry and Edwards, how would these key parts of the F911 audience react?

IMO, such a photo-op would help the Republicans discredit Moore. "Don't listen to him. He's a partisan supporter of John Kerry. See?"

I'm glad the CBC, AFSCME, and former Dean supporters willl be honoring Moore. But I'd rather wait until after Election Day to see Michael Moore on the same stage with John Kerry and other official voices of the Democratic Party. And I'd be surprised if Mooore himself did not feel the same way.

[K8-EEE]

65. Love Michael But Don't Know Why Needs To Be There

He's not a Dem...he voted for Nader last time, yes he supports the Dem candidate but this is the DEMOCRATIC NAT'L CONVENTION! I think he should just do his own take on the thing, of course he will make fun of it which I look forward to but I think this is one event that is and should be, PARTISAN.

[Columbia]

78. See post 77 - MM is a Dem

[flaminbats]

142. Because his movie is a best seller, and we need his support..

Kerry will not win without gaining some of the Nader voters, and Michael Moore is one way to do this. Last I heard Moore was planning to vote for Kerry, inviting Moore to the convention would win over green voters while sending Nader a clear message.."If you support Kerry and dropout, then you can attend as well!"

What message is Kerry trying to send by doing this.."sorry we don't want you?" Mike Moore's movie is the best political movie I've seen since Citizen Kane. What will this move do to Moore's support for Kerry? Is the DNC now too good for those people who can make a Kerry victory possible? Why does the DNC seem more like the RNC with every passing election?

[reprobate]

54. Let's all calm down and wait for the facts.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

70. The facts are that nobody knows the facts on this story....

...including you.

[GeneratorOfHeat]

73. I still don like the idea that Mooreis banned by the DNC

This stinks to high heaven.

[GeneratorOfHeat]

56. How dare they censor Moore!!!

He should be the lead and closing speaker. The DNC is really starting to piss me off. I see a Nader vote in the future if the DNC keeps this up!

[depakid]

62. I'm waiting for David Duke....

He's written a book- and he's won demographic majorities- i.e., white male votes. I imagine that some in my Southern Conservative family will be upset when he doesn't get welcomed into the Republican Convention- because, unlike Micheal Moore, he really is a proven vote getter.

And damn, he's melanin deprived.... so why not.

</sarcasm>

[MaryBear]

71. It seems to me

that talking about, implying similarities between, Michael Moore and David Duke, even in jest, is a real disservice to Michael Moore.

[MoonRiver]

60. Posts like yours

are why the rational left majority is turning away from internet message board sites that have been infiltrated by such fringe elements. It was a great idea while it lasted, sigh.
:thumbsdown:

[Longhorn]

61. What about this Boston Herald article, 7/22/04?

http://news.bostonherald.com/dncConvention/view.bg?articleid=36665

Fahrenheit 7/26: Michael Moore: I will crash Kerry's party
By Dave Wedge
Thursday, July 22, 2004

Democrats were abuzz and Republicans aghast yesterday as Bush-hating filmmaker Michael Moore unveiled plans to descend upon, and steal some thunder from, John F. Kerry's hometown nominating party.

(snip)

Republicans said the ``Fahrenheit 9/11'' creator will reflect poorly as a surrogate for Kerry. ``It's just another example of the pessimism and the conspiracy theories coming from John Kerry and John Kerry surrogates,'' said Kevin Madden, spokesman for the Bush-Cheney campaign. ``We're seeing a lot of hate and vitriol from this John Kerry celebrity set - Michael Moore, Whoopi Goldberg. It shows that their intent is to frame anger as an agenda.''

Democrats, though careful to say Moore won't outshine Kerry, brimmed with excitement. ``Clearly the star of the week will be Sen. Kerry and Sen. (John) Edwards, but having Michael Moore in Boston to enjoy the events just adds a lot of excitement to everything else going on,'' Massachusetts Democratic Party spokeswoman Jane Lane said.

(snip)

Moore, who won't be among the 15,000 credentialed Democratic National Convention journalists, will appear at a screening of his ``Fahrenheit 9/11'' at the Coolidge Corner Theater in Brookline. He also will speak Monday to the Congressional Black Caucus.

Looks to me like he never planned to attend the actual convention.

[lovuian]

68. Kerry afraid of Michael Moore stealing the Limelight...No!!!

But Michael Moore did show How the Democrats just sat there while Democracy in America went down the tubes

More like Kerry will be embarassed....

and it also shows how the Democratic Party is Wimps

If the Democrats were smart they would Woo Michael Moore

if they don't Heaven Help them

He can be their freakin Nightmare too

[Media_Lies_Daily]

69. The Boston Herald has been proven to be a rightwing rag....

...they have yet to print anything that's not a slam against the Democrats for reasons that are usually embellished and often just plain fabricated.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

63. Still nothing on Moore's website...

<http://www.michaelmoore.com/index_main.php>

Is it possible someone's been scammed?

[Rowdyboy]

66. Possible? Hell, its likely

[PartyPooper]

67. I want Ron Reagan *AND* Michael Moore to speak!

:dem:

[freetobegay]

72. Much ado about nothing!

Get a grip poeople.

[Zidane]

76. Interesting

Right wingers are invited to speak. Yet, MM is told to piss off.

Glad to see the DLC is alive and well.

[Citizen Daryl]

101. Have you HEARD Ron Jr. speak?

He's hardly a right-winger.

Seek out the streaming audio archive of his recent interview with Terry Gross on Fresh Air. I think it might have been this past Wednesday.

[blitzen]

79. thoughts from an aging Dem...

who volunteered for McGovern in '72


Face it folks! Moore/Nader helped Bush win in 2000. Why should the party establishment celebrate him now, since all they'll have to show for it will be a bunch of stories on FAUX about how Dems love lying propagandist filmmakers?

I appreciate F/911 as much as anyone...in fact I think Moore was too soft on Bush (he could have shown that the famous "tough on terror/golf swing" moment happened the very day dozens had been killed by a bomb in Israel).

If Moore really wants Bush out of office (and I'm sure he does) he will leave the Dems alone until after the election.

[Zidane]

87. wrong place

nt

[geek tragedy]

80. Boo fucking hoo.

This convention is about focusing the nation's attention on John Kerry, not Michael Moore. Moore is not a Democrat, and in the past has said that the Democrats and Republicans are exactly the same.

Michael Moore is above all else a self-promoter. His presence at the convention would not be helpful.

Moore is not pro-Kerry or pro-Democrat. He is anti-Bush. They don't owe him a damn thing.

[Columbia]

81. See post 77 - MM is a Democrat

[geek tragedy]

82. After registering as a Democrat

he went on to bash the Democratic party and endorse Ralph Nader. A left-wing Zell Miller.

He is an ally of convenience for the Democratic party, not a friend or supporter.

[Columbia]

85. Can't say I disagree with you

[Zidane]

88. So I take it Clark shouldn't be invited either?

Clark had previously helped the repubs - yet not soon after he went on to be a serious viable candidate for the freaking democratic nomination, and was welcomed by many with open arms.

At least MM helped the greens - and anyway you look at it helping the greens is a hell of a lot better than helping the repubs. ESPECIALLY when you have no magic powers allowing you to see what would happen in Florida.

So - if the excuse is moore helped nader, thus is not allowed at the convention - then neither should clark, who had previously helped the repubs. Somehow I doubt Clark won't be attending though, because this excuse is bull shit. People can change party affiliation. Lots of people are dems (both elected officials, and your average people) who were once repubs.

Let's face it - moore isn't denied credentials because he helped Nader - he's being denied credentials because he didn't toe the damn DLC line of be a little nice to the pubs, don't call them on too much, and make sure you support repub positions if you can. Maybe if he allowed FAUX News to add 45 minutes of their commentary in F 9-11 it would be a different story.

[blitzen]

89. invite Clark....

invite anyone who can "sell" Kerry to the FAUX-washed masses...It's time to use GOP-style rhetorical tricks.

After Kerry wins, move the Dems to the left.

[geek tragedy]

90. Clark announced himself as a Democrat, while Moore essentially

now regrets not supporting what he considers to be the lesser of two evils.

I've had my suspicions about Clark--got a Zell vibe from him.

The #1,2, and 3 goals of the convention are to get John Kerry elected president. Having Moore's sideshow on display would not contribute towards that goal.

[Zidane]

91. Don't see the difference between MM and Clark

Except that there would be more legit reasons to claim Clark is not a dem rather than MM.

Moore wouldn't have to have a "sideshow". He could simply be on the floor - NOT on stage. But apparently he won't even be able to do that.

[geek tragedy]

92. Can you imagine Moore showing up and NOT drawing a huge amount

of attention to himself?

Moore hasn't even said he'll vote for Kerry this year. That separates him from Clark, Kucinich, Dean, etc, methinks.

[Zidane]

96. Obviously you have never been to a convention

There will be a LOT of well known people present. Each could draw a whole lot of attention. Though, I find in reality they really don't draw excessive amounts.

MM will just be another one of those faces in the crowd.

And BTW - it doesn't matter who you "say" you'll vote for. In the voting booth no one knows but you. For all we know, Clark is voting republican. Maybe Bush is voting Kerry. We wouldn't know. But you know what? I'd say the odds of MM NOT voting for kerry are about as high as bush voting FOR kerry. If you actually want to suggest that any reasonable chance exists that MM is not voting kerry because he (supposedly) has not directly said he will do so.... well, then I have some nice ocean front property in denver for sale...

Anyway - Again, I doubt MM will draw THAT much attention. At the two conventions I have been to many VERY well known elected officials were walking around. Although some delegates got excited and wanted to go over and meet them I would certainly in no way say they drew a huge excessive amount of attention. If THEY didn't draw that much attention then I doubt MM will.

When Kerry (and others) comes out on stage no one will give a damn about MM until he gets off stage.

[IndianaGreen]

95. The one and only mission in life of ABB is to replace Bush AND

to change Bush's policies after Kerry becomes President, with or without his approval.

This slight of Michael Moore is also a rejection of Fahrenheit 911 and its antiwar message. It also reinforces the view that the Democratic establishment is as prowar as Bush, but it is only angry about Bush botching the occupation.

[geek tragedy]

97. What a bunch of crap.

People who hate the Democratic party really should just STFU when it doesn't do exactly what they want.

Just as prowar as Bush? Lies and propaganda.

[IndianaGreen]

100. Obviously you haven't read the 2004 Democratic platform

I suggest you read what it says, and what it fails to say, about Iraq and the Middle East. It is a ringing endorsement of militarism and imperialism!

[geek tragedy]

129. That must be why Joementum won the Dem nomination.

Oh wait . . .

Kerry has limits on what he can say. If he sounds too "soft" before taking office, it will encourage attacks on US soldiers. And I don't buy that things can't get worse for US soldiers there--they sure as hell can.

He has to deal with Bush's horrific mess while over there, and is limited regarding what he can openly state. That's part of governing and diplomacy.

This Naderite bullshit about there being no difference between the two parties is so 2000. Wake up.

[Citizen Daryl]

102. "STFU" if you don't agree?

Wow, just what we need - the Fox News wing of the Democratic Party.

[geek tragedy]

128. If someone hates the Democratic party,

then they are in no position to demand that it acknowledge them. Pure and simple.

[blitzen]

84. so is Zell Miller n/t

[IndianaGreen]

93. Has anyone from the DNC or the Kerry campaign debunk this story yet?

We already know what they think of those of us that are totally opposed to the war in Iraq and the PATRIOT Act. They have done everything they could to silence and marginalize us (not to mention that "fee speech" cattle pen outside the Fleet Center).

I think their silence on the Moore matter speaks volumes.

:think:

[thebigidea]

98. if they let Hannity in, they should give Moore media credentials

for a film crew too.

[Citizen Daryl]

103. That could be PRECISELY what they're worried about ...

Moore with a film crew.

[thebigidea]

135. and who looks bad when Moore has a crew? Those that don't let him in

[tooie]

108. that's tough to defend

letting hannity in and blocking out Moore....

[Dems Will Win]

111. On the one hand Moore should be allowed in,

but on the other you have to think of how the RW media like the NYT and the WP and CBS news would make a HUGE DEAL about Kerry sucking up to Michael Moore.

Never mind what FOX and the Bush/Cheney ads would do. (They would take the clips of Moore at the convention and overlay them over Kerry at the convention).

THEN ITS GOOD-BYE BOUNCE. HELLO TO "FOUR MORE WARS" UNDER BUSH/CHENEY II...

[tooie]

137. stop making it such a big deal...

he is press, give him credentials and if you need to, disavow knowledge. Why is this any different than not knowing Sandy was under investigation (I mean really, now - Bill knew)

[Cocoa]

104. trying to use Moore against the dems

just like trying to help Nader get on the ballot.

Of course they're going to do this, they're going to work every angle to get Bush back in.

[Pepperbelly]

110. What kind of credentials did he seek? Press? What? nt

[Ruby Romaine]

112. Riddle has a bone to pick with the Democratic Party- Is he really close to

MM? (who should remain independent)

Riddle was fired by Geoffrey Fieger as his campaign manager during that horrible election against Engler who has screwed the economy so terribly-we are still suffering from his actions here in Michigan.

[OKNancy]

113. Moore to be at Convention

Moore: I'm now welcome at convention
GENESEE COUNTY
THE FLINT JOURNAL FIRST EDITION
Sunday, July 25, 2004
By Marjory Raymer
[e-mail] • 810.766.6325
Michael Moore will walk the Democratic convention floor after all.

In fact, he'll give an interview to Larry King, appear on MSNBC with Ron Reagan and talk on ABC's "Good Morning America" from the floor this week.

He'll even share a box at the convention with invited VIP guests such as Al Franken and Ben Affleck.


More:
http://www.mlive.com/news/fljournal/index.ssf?/base/news-22/109075981643830.xml

[Ruby Romaine]

115. THANK YOU OK Nancy! for posting this! Why is everyone so quick to think

the worst? People! Please! Put that energy into getting involved on a local, state and national level. You can make a difference!

[OKNancy]

117. Well....

I read this post and I went to google just to see if it was true or if there was any more information. It didn't sound right to me, and the sources for the first story sounded awfully vague.

Why are people so quick to judge?....maybe they want to think the worst of Democrats since it validates their foregone conclusions.

[Ruby Romaine]

122. Mlive / Booth newspapers are horribly right wing- I refuse to buy our

local rag
They present opinion as news -like the rest of the Librul media!

[IndianaGreen]

119. Moore: I'm NOW welcome at convention (The story was TRUE!)

What part of "NOW" don't you get? The story was TRUE, but someone at the Democratic Party decided to reverse the original decision.

More on the story:

Moore said Saturday that the Democratic Party is welcoming him, even though he first believed a "low-level, disgruntled person" was trying to deny him the access he sought to the convention.

<snip>

Moore's friend Sam Riddle, a longtime political consultant, supplied The Flint Journal on Friday with a copy of an e-mail in which Moore writes, "Can you believe the Dems are not going to give me credentials?!"

The-mail was dated Thursday. Moore said he did not intend the e-mail to become public and that the situation was resolved sometime Friday. The Journal could not reach Moore for comment Friday.

"The top dogs of the Democratic Party must have realized that had Michael had a more visceral reaction, it could have had a very severe effect on November," Riddle said Saturday.

He maintains that media inquiries prompted convention officials to act on Moore's behalf.

http://www.mlive.com/news/fljournal/index.ssf?/base/news-22/109075981643830.xml

[Maeve]

123. Actually, the situation was resolved before the first story was published

There was a mistake made, it was fixed--Sam Riddle was wrong to give the story and the e-mail to a newspaper without clearing it with Moore first.

[IndianaGreen]

124. But the story wasn't bogus!

That's the point I am making. Moore was denied access. The e-mail leak prompted action to reverse what a party apparatchik with a "grudge" had decided earlier. Moore is now given access. Case closed.

Now, let's do the same thing about that "free speech" cattle pen across the Fleet Center.

[Maeve]

134. We have different perceptions of the incident

I think there was a minor screw-up that was promptly resolved but over-blown because a third party decided to take it to the media. I've seen similar logistics errors made in other situations involving large groups (and the heightened security the past couple of years just adds to the likelihood of dumb errors).

No disagreement on the cattle pen crap. Again, "security" is being used to limit freedoms in a way that departs sharply from what America professes to stand for.

[LibertyorDeath]

127. Now that's Moore Like It

Cheers OKNancy :)

[0007]

120. Bull Shit!

[truthisfreedom]

125. Moore may have had more of a galvanizing effect, but he's also had a

polarizing effect, and maybe this is the Dems way of reaching out to more independents, no matter how they feel about the issues Moore brought up, to indicate that the Dems want to be the "big tent" this time, the ones with a message of hope. Moore's work is done for this election... it's not necessary for him to be at the convention, really, and maybe they're afraid that if Kerry loses to bush this fall (of course bush'd have to cheat like crazy) then Moore might use footage of the convention in a bad light, showing flaws in the Dem strategy which might embarrass them.

dunno, just a theory.

[IndianaGreen]

126. Some of you are so fearful of offending the mythical center

that you end up offending everyone else. Is this why we don't mention the war as being bad, or PATRIOT as being evil? Where is this "standing for nothing other than a personnel change" going to take us? What mandate is that?

[Ravy]

130. I don't believe Michael Moore is done at all.

There will be Moore before the election comes up, I bet.

Sorry, couldn't resist the obvious play on words, but Michael will be doing plenty in the get-out-the vote efforts, speaking engagements, release of the DVD before the election, DVD promotion, etc.

[marlakay]

131. Take Moore's Pledge!

It's not enough to rant about shit on this website. Sorry I don't usually cuss. I am one of the conservative liberals that write on this. I love Mike Moore. I have seen his movie twice. I had to think for weeks about his pledge before I did it because he asks a lot and I wanted to be truthful before I agreed to it.

So all of you, put your TIME where your mouths are!!!

http://michaelmoore.com/takeaction/vote/pledge.php

[Dr Fate]

132. Moore will be at the convention (Link included)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=707954&mesg_id=707954

[peacetalksforall]

133. Don't fret about Moore - turn it around.....

The DNC is only a tool of America to get Bush out.
Moore is also a self-made tool.

Look at it this way...

Let Moore and his supporters form a new party. Let the DNC come to the new Party.

More people will remember the content of his movie than are going to remember all the speeches at the convention.

The convention is ritual. The documentary is a living moving thing.

There are lots of people like me who are tired of the fraidycats in Washington who have to vote for killing and the patriot act.

Let them nominate Kerry. Let Kerry win. Then start working for something better and let Moore be ONE OF MANY rallying points along with peacemakers and other kinds of educators.

The DNC is stifling compared to what we CAN BE on the way to restoring our country to us, new and improved.

Let there be a separation between the DNC and Moore.

[NNadir]

138. Moore doesn't deserve a seat in the convention. He propagandized for the

Repukes in 2000, advancing the Repuke inspired case that Bush was as moderate as Gore.

I know, I know, I know. He apologized! Immediately after he did so all of the dead in Iraq rose from their graves and accepted the apology, and all of the carbon dioxide injected into the atmosphere as the result of the cancelling of Kyoto boiled off into space, oh and all of the right wing fascist judges proposed for the Senate either resigned or agreed never again to accept nominations. The "Partial Birth" bill was cancelled.

Michael Moore made a zillion dollars exposing the crimes he helped in 2000 to perpetuate and now he cries that he doesn't get a seat at the table? Fuck him.

[notbush]

140. I agree!!!!

The enemy of my enemy is NOT always my friend.

[WillyT]

141. Is That You Ralph ???

:evilgrin:

[shoopnyc123]

139. I believe in the separation of Church and State...

....and the separation of Theater and State. I loved Moore's movie, but it's A MOVIE. Yeah, it helped but, it won't win a presidency, Kerry will do that.