Democrats divided on assault gun ban

[funkybutt]

http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/frontpage/index.ssf?/base/news-1/109083238286680.xml

"Rep. William Jefferson D-La., said extending the ban on 19 assault weapons is the right thing to do because "they aren't used for hunting, or self-protection, only to kill people."

Nevertheless, he disagrees with Brady on whether to make it a big presidential campaign issue, but acknowledged that many other Democrats share Brady's view.

It remains a divisive issue that some analysts believe cost Al Gore several key states in 2000, Jefferson said. "


Sure seems like the paper is trying to go out of their way to devide the democrats. This is my second post from this same paper today. They should look at their demographics b/c New Orleans is democratic BY FAR!

[saigon68]

1. It will cost Kerry Wisconsin

There are 800,000 deer hunters here. Many of them were seduced last time by the NRA to vote for the Chimp, rather than-- GORE, WHO ONLY WON THIS STATE BY 7,800 VOTES.

These people are blue collar union workers who believe firmly in the 2nd Amendment.

It has been hard to bring them back to the party of their ECONOMIC SELF INTEREST.

On Edit: learn to spell saigon

[Krupskaya]

4. Here in MN, too.

That's the problem. What we have to tell them is that when Bush outlaws their unions, they won't be able to afford guns. Works every time.

[Tippy]

11. Here in TN too.....

Who knows some day...it could be only the republicans will be armed...not a plesent thought...I realize it sounds far-fetched...but they can use the Patriot Act for just about anything they want...

[geek tragedy]

2. The Dems shouldn't highlight this issue

The gun crowd are highly motivated and are single-issue voters. By themselves they can cost Kerry the election if he pisses them off.

[Merlin]

3. This is a year to let it go. Trade them their godam guns for their votes.

I detest these people and their fucking self-righteous, asinine, selfish, absurd romance with these weapons of war. I detest their politics and their stupidity. But if coddling them and making nice and even letting the ban go gets Bush beat, I'm for it. It's a fair trade.

There will be time, there will be time... Sooner or later the insane and the petty will be outfoxed by the wise.

[JayS]

8. Yup, this is what I hear about the current "let's act like one...

...of them" messages the Democratic Party is trying (poorly) to get out. It takes time to build up trust and no time at all to lose it.

If anyone would take the time to question what "these people" are concerned about they would find that many of them see the brand of gun control that is traditionally pushed by the Democratic Party as downright silly. This "God & Guns" crowd want gun control, but a different form of it, and going after the law-abiding with the intention of affecting the violent criminal is not included in this form.

[FeebMaster]

13. So have you read the AWB yet

or do you still think it bans machine guns?

[DoNotRefill]

31. and that's EXACTLY why they ain't gonna buy it...

"There will be time, there will be time... Sooner or later the insane and the petty will be outfoxed by the wise."

There's NEVER a good time to surrender a civil liberty.

[David__77]

5. I don't support this measure at present.

This is not a major issue for me. I think that "gun control" is more than sufficient right now, with or without an extension.

[Catfight]

9. I agree, I feel like the Bill of Rights has been castrated as it is,

for now, I'm comfortable with not renewing anything until Kerry is in office. I think Democrats need to stand behind the Bill of Rights for awhile and get the NRA on board.

[JayS]

17. I am sure that Kerry will want all kinds of the defective brand...

...of gun control once in office. He may even push for it before the 2006 elections. When this happens we might as well forget about issues such as living wages, health care, jobs exportation, and so forth. All energy will go towards jousting with windmills.

[Parche]

6. NRA

I wonder if they will ever figure out that assault rifles
and Hunting rifles are not the same

[JayS]

7. They know that these "assault rifles" are just semi-automatic...

...rifles made to look scary.

[FeebMaster]

15. I wonder if AWB supporters will ever figure out

that the Assault Weapons Ban has nothing to do with assault rifles or any other machine gun.

What's wrong with hunting with an assault rifle, now that you've mentioned it? I mean other than tromping through the woods with a multi-thousand dollar rifle?

[NickB79]

27. I've hunted with an "assault rifle", what are you talking about?

WASR-10 (an AK-47 clone), a 5-rd magazine to be legal for deer season, and softpoint 7.62mm ammo work wonders on deer out to 150 yds or so. When I want to go out and have fun at the range, I can simply snap in a 10-rd magazine instead. My uncle has an AR-15 (civilian version of the M16) that is deadly on coyotes and woodchucks out to 350 yds. A 30-rd magazine and he's good to go all day long in the field.

[DiverDave]

10. Who needs an assault rifle?

Fucking rambo wannabes, thats who...then you get them stolen and they are used in a drive-by that kills innocents.
Yeah, right, rambo's, you NEED an ak-47.
This is a good bill, and BTW, the 2nd is NOT about your right to have a machine gun.

[FeebMaster]

12. What a coincidence.

"This is a good bill, and BTW, the 2nd is NOT about your right to have a machine gun."

Neither is the Assault Weapons Ban.

[JayS]

14. Machine Gun? Where in the world does this stuff keep coming...

...from. There is nothing in this law that deals with machine guns. I would wager that few, if any of us, were alive when machine guns became highly, and I do mean highly, restricted.

[FeebMaster]

16. The oldest member of the US Supreme Court

was 14 at the time, if I remember correctly.

[DiverDave]

18. Pulleezzee

It is so easy to switch them to full auto.
I know.
We were told we would be court martialed if we messed with the trigger housings on our m-16's.
I found out where you could modify them for the "rock and roll" mode.
So, yeah, MACHINE GUNS.:eyes:

[FeebMaster]

20. Uh, the M-16 is a machine gun.

[GregW]

21. And I can switch some pipe and black poweder to ...

... FULL BOMB MODE.

But it doesn't make either of them illegal, does it?

[slackmaster]

22. Your M16 was already full-auto or three-round burst

The semiautomatic, civilian AR-15 can't accept all of the M16's fire control parts without permanent modifications to the lower receiver. The conversion is not trivial.

I found out where you could modify them for the "rock and roll" mode.

You mean by switching the selector lever to the position marked "AUTO"?

:dunce:

[leanings]

26. Bullshit. n/t

n/t

[NickB79]

28. It is pretty hard to convert a semi-auto AR-15 to full-auto

You would have to file down the sear to the point where it would slam-fire throughout the entire magazine. This means once you pull the trigger the gun will fire until the magazine is empty. It will do this EVEN IF YOU REMOVE YOUR FINGER FROM THE TRIGGER. How easy do you think it is to fire a gun accurately, even one with fairly low recoil like the AR-15/M-16, when it's firing 10 rds/second? Hint: pretty damn hard.

This method would be like trying to make a Ford Taurus into a racing car by modifying the gas peddle to stick once depressed and disabling the brakes. You would reach some pretty good speeds, but it would be totally uncontrollable.

[DoNotRefill]

32. uh huh...

so you could modify a select-fire weapon (legally a machinegun with the 3 round burst mode) into a select fire weapon (legally a machinegun with a 0-1-30 option). What's the difference? Legally, they're both machineguns. Try doing that with an AR-15, and you'll find that major machining is required to the lower receiver. That's machining that requires a machineshop to do.

BTW, you DO realize that the AWB had NOTHING to do with M-16s, right?

[happyslug]

45. My M-16 (when I was in the Army) had the Auto selector permanently install

And the M-16 trigger housing had no affect on its action (Automatic or Semi-automatic). Now the older M14 was designed to have a removable automatic selector switch (The M14's safety switch was separate from its Selector switch). Most units keep the Selector Switches off the weapon for the 7.62mm Round in a M14 was to powerful for effective automatic fire (For most people in most situations, the M14 was to light a weapon for the 7.62mm round in Automatic fire).

Unlike the M14, the M16's selector switch and safety was one and the same. You switch it from Safe, to Semi to Full as needed. The M16 could NOT be made semi-auto only just by removing its selector switch for it required the complete rebuild of the Trigger and safety groups (and the M16 was NOT even design for CLEANING in that area let alone such replacement of parts).

My point here is are you sure it was a M16? Sounds more like the M14 and its removal selector switch (Which was NOT part of the M14's safety).

[slackmaster]

19. National Firearms Act was passed just before my mom was born

And until I explained the law to her last year, she was unaware that it was possible for an ordinary citizen to legally own an automatic weapon.

BTW - She did know that the AW ban is about semiautomatic firearms, but couldn't explain the implications fo the ban's upcoming expiration.

[MrBenchley]

24. The Tim McVeigh wannabes, that's who...

70% of Americans want these guns off the market...it's a win-win issue for Democrats.

[Jen]

29. Push Renewing The AWB!

The members of the NRA won't vote for us anyway, but moms will if we stress that we are going to keep these guns out of the hands of bad guys.

[JayS]

35. And we are going to keep guns out of the hands of the bad...

...guys how? By just a little old law? This isn't good enough.

And yes, the NRA only has about four or so million members and I think it can safely be said that Kerry will not be considered a popular choice for President, nor will any candidate with a 100% approval rating from the Brady Bunch.

In my area, many moms are perfectly aware that the law does nothing to address the bad guys having access to firearms, or being able to continue to walk the streets for that matter. I have heard too many statements to the effect of "That is your plan!?!" when discussing the problem of violent felons getting guns. This is why the "God and Guns" crowd wants a candidate that is tough on crime and is repulsed by candidates that aren't.

[MrBenchley]

41. Exactly so....

Just as the Big dog said last night: "In this year's budget, the White House this year wants to cut off all the federal funding for 88,000 uniformed police officers under the COPS program we've had for 10 years. Among those 88,000 police are more than 700 members of the New York Police Department who put their lives on the line on 9/11.
With gang violence rising, and with all of us looking for terrorists in our midst and hoping they're not too well armed or too dangerous, the president and the Congress are about to allow the 10-year-old ban on deadly assault weapons to lapse.
Now, they believe it's the right thing to do. But our policy was to put more police on the street and to take assault weapons off the street. And it gave you eight years of declining crime and eight years of declining violence.
Their policy is the reverse. They're taking police off the streets while they put assault weapons back on the street.
Now, if you agree with that choice, by all means, vote to keep them in office. But if you don't, join John Kerry, John Edwards and the Democrats in making America safer, smarter and stronger again."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/07/26/dems.clinton.transcript/index.html

[NickB79]

43. Sales of AK and AR clones has skyrocketted since 1994

AK-47 clone imports have gone through the roof the past 10 yrs, and I could name at least 15 companies currently producing AR-15's, when there were only half as many in the early 1990's. How has the AWB taken assault weapons off the streets when the sales of these guns has been at all-time highs?

Oh yeah, thats right, I forgot that these guns don't have bayonet lugs or flash hiders. Thank god those deadly features were removed so the guns out there now are neutered and non-lethal, right?

[MrBenchley]

51. Stop Press: Gun Industry Corrupt and Dishonest!

Yeah, they're evading the law....really who's surprised?

[FeebMaster]

52. Also in the news:

Gun industry complies with Law by removing flash suppressors and bayonet lugs from their guns.

[JayS]

53. How dare they! n/t

n/t

[NickB79]

54. Evading the law, eh?

If you know of any gun manufacturers producing guns that are illegal under the 1994 AWB, I suggest you give the BATF a call; they do have a toll-free number. I'm sure they would be VERY interested in your top-secret information about illegally manufactured weapons being sold in gun shops across the nation. Let us know what they say, ok?

[JayS]

55. Here is their website if you want to write them instead.

http://www.atf.gov/

[slackmaster]

56. Brady Center tried that tack a couple of years ago

They filed suit in federal court claiming that post-ban firearms were illegal. It didn't go anywhere.

I guess the courts are part of the Conspiracy too.

:tinfoilhat:

[Romulus]

57. hey, I thought that courts were infallible

and the REAL rulers of the US.

After all, we shouldn't question whatever COURTS rule, right, because they are much wiser about these things?

Why, then we would have question Bush v. Gore. :eyes:

[NickB79]

30. Refresh my memory, but how many guns did McVeigh use

To kill 168 people in Oklahoma again?

[JayS]

34. McVeigh was into fertilizer and diesel fuel. Thankfully not many...

...others are as these items can be easily purchased any day of the week. Unfortunately, it is doubtful that all of McVeigh's accomplices were captured so there may be more of his type still running around.

[DoktorGreg]

23. If Dems are divided on it, then its a dead issue...

In the interest of country, gun grabbers should just let this go. Look how well a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage when only half the Republican party supported it, and no Dems did.

Really, its time, just let it go.

[RamboLiberal]

25. I think for the most part this was a dumbly wriiten law

that was mostly cosmetic. I blame the media for making some of these weapons popular - i.e. Miami Vice and other cop shows of the time and a lot of the movies.

Dems would do better to concentrate on getting off the market the large capacity magazines and some other after-market gear, for instance the Hellfire trigger (I don't know if it's a piece of junk or actually works, but it is legal). Heck there's one site that advertises them and says do they work?, then sites how fast the Branch Davidians were able to fire on the ATF agents at Waco as proof. Sick.

The other area I'd like to see closed is I think all firearm sales should have to go through a background check.

If we can do title transfers with our cars, why not with guns?

[DoNotRefill]

33. I missed the constitutionally enumerated right of the people...

to keep and drive cars. Which amendment was that, again???

[billbuckhead]

36. Not renewing the AWB is being soft on terrorism

Every politician who doesn't support the AWB needs to challenged on this. BTW, McVeigh said if he had to do it over again he would have used a sniper rifle instead of the bomb since it's more selective.

[slackmaster]

37. I see it exactly the other way around

Every bit of liberty we surrender in the name of fighting "terrorism" constitutes a concession and therefore a victory to the "terrorists".

BTW, McVeigh said if he had to do it over again he would have used a sniper rifle instead of the bomb since it's more selective.

Good thing he's been taken out of circulation so he can't hurt anyone ever again.

[JayS]

39. McVeigh also said that he wanted to work with Iraq. n/t

n/t

[Columbia]

38. Terrorism is...

Bouncing heads up and down the concrete like basketballs.

[leanings]

40. "Sniper rifle", huh?

An accurate, powerful scoped rifle? Maybe like a scoped Remington 700 in .308? Or a .270? Or a 30-06? What do "sniper rifles" have to do with the AWB? Are they going to be covered under the new and improved version? Next we can go after the quiet .22 LR, call it the "Assassin's Special." That'll sell well in WV.

People don't blink when ridiculous proposals to ban the most common of hunting guns are tossed around under the headings of "Sniper Rifles" or "Armor-Piercing Bullet" bans. And then they wonder why all the gun nuts are so paranoid about the intentions of gun control advocates.

[DoNotRefill]

47. how do you figure?

And Mcveigh had access to sniper rifles, but chose a bomb. Bombs are much more deadly.

[wabeewoman]

42. Assault rifle,

late term abortion, gay marriage...All issues meant to divide and conquer the masses. Personally I don't think there is any reason for anyone owning an assault rifle but every person in this country could own one and not do the damage of one psycho in the WH.

[saigon68]

44. That psYcho CHIMPANZEE

Has killed more women and Children in the last year than all the other idiots put together.

[Demeter]

46. Ordinarily, I'd Vote for a Ban

But if BushCo is out to steal another election, an assault rifle might come in handy in the insurrection that will follow to overthrow the illegal regime....

[FeebMaster]

48. An assault rifle isn't going to do you much good

since the government has a list of everyone who owns one legally since machine guns have been registered since 1934. The assault weapons ban has nothing to do with assault rifles. It classifies a subset of semi-automatic weapons as assault weapons and bans their manufacture for civilians.

[leanings]

49. "Assault gun ban"

No reason to ban assault guns; I've never seen one for sale and I imagine the ammunition would be prohibitively expensive. I don't think my local range would allow one either.

This one is probably covered under the import ban:
http://www.battlefield.ru/isu122_152.html

And I don't know if this one is going to be available for domestic sale regardless of what happens in September:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/lav-ag-pics.htm

[PhuLoi]

50. This is a hard one for me, I see arguments to be made

on both sides of the issue. Up to the coup of 2000 I could see no reasonable use for an assualt weapon. If I were to hunt it would be with my '.06. If I were to go back into combat I would want a switched M-14. If the repugs blatently overthrow the elections again and civil war erupts, I would probably rely on my streetsweeper.