'I had an abortion' tees go on sale

[rawstory]

By John Byrne | Raw Story Editor

Planned Parenthood’s “I had an abortion” tee-shirts officially went on sale today, sparking ire from the conservative right. The shirts, which retail for $15, are billed as “soft and comfortable fitted tees assert a powerful message in support of women’s rights.”

The shirt says simply, “I had an abortion.”

Meanwhile, a conservative Canadian website, LifeSiteNews, is up in arms. The site issued a statement Friday in advance of the sales. It refers to Planned Parenthood as an “international abortion giant.” A conservative Canadian journalist for the Ottawa Citizen is quoted as saying, “I think it’s a great idea… In fact, I think they should adopt a whole range of slogans. How about, ‘I eat unborn babies for breakfast…Vote John Kerry.’ Now those would really sell.”

<snip>

LifeSiteNews takes a radical position on contraception.

“Contraception, in the form of the birth-control pill, is never able to prevent recourse to abortion because it is a form of abortion itself,” they assert. “Contraception, as a means to reduce abortion, is having dire consequences on our population, particularly our youth.”

http://www.rawstory.com

[David__77]

1. Ending abortion silence is commendable.

Pro-choice forces do best when they are on the ideological offensive: Abortion is not murder, and fetuses are not children! I commend women who are open about their reproductive choice when they chose abortion. There is not a grain of shame in that.

[Book Lover]

2. What I find ironic

is that I order my contraceptive sponges from Canada...

Thanks for the story; I just ordered my shirt. I'm not sure where I'll wear it, even here in the SF Bay Area, but it will be an interesting experiment, nicht wahr?

on edit: Not every woman who has an abortion is all torn up about it; it is not an emotionally painful experience all the time. Signed, from one who knows.

[azrak]

143. Been there done that...

and would not even consider buying let alone wearing the t-shirt!
I teach special ed EBD sometimes I think kids would be better off if they had been aborted. But please don't discount that for a lot of women an abortion is not a pleasant experience physically or emotionally. And you have to count that pregnancy everytime a new Dr. asks. You remember and you always wonder.

[bluestateguy]

3. If it pisses off the Right, I like it

[Tracer]

4. Frankly, I don't think ...

... that braying to the public that one has had an abortion is anything to be proud of.

[Red State Rebel]

6. I'm with you...this is an painful emotional thing to go thru

I can't imagine anyone being proud or happy about it.

[Krupskaya]

8. The way I see it...

...I see it as putting a face to an action. Like the t-shirts back in the early 90s, "This is what a lesbian looks like." Just to let people know that, hey, you might not have ever thought that a person like me could be a lesbian or have an abortion or get raped or be a feminist or whatever. I see it more as an educational thing than a "pride" thing.

[David__77]

13. What about not being ashamed?

Gay people have fought long and hard to gain visibility. We have "gay pride," for instance. I'm gay, and I'm glad I am. Abortion is different, yes--but I understand the desire of women who have had abortions wanting to express this fact in order to say "I am not ashamed of my life choices."

[Krupskaya]

15. Yeah,

...that makes sense. "Not being ashamed" sometimes equals "being proud," but not necessarily.

[sangh0]

22. "Wearing a t-shirt" = "proud" - Yeah, that makes sense

I guess the women who held pictures of desperacidos were proud that their family members had been taken and tortured by their government. I guess that's why they "advertised" the loss of their loved ones. They were so "proud" their loved ones had been tortured.

:crazy:

[Jen]

105. Might cause injury

I would advise against it. I could see anti-abortion people throwing blood on the women wearing these shirts and getting into fights.

[LiveWire]

107. true...

Im sure those people who blow up abortion clinics were wearing all sorts of nifty logos on their shirts...

[DoNotRefill]

118. self-deleted...

don't want to get EVERYBODY on BOTH sides mad at me...

[Ratty]

46. It's about not having some "shameful secret"

Yes, it's a personal decision. For most women I imagine it's a very difficult one. This T Shirt is obviously not for everyone. But for women who refuse to consider it a scarlet letter or a mark of shame I think it's a great idea. Sure, some things are personal and nobody's business, but there's a line between personal and "shameful family secret." I learned long ago that there are certain things that are just too insidious to try and keep secret. For your own mental health, for your relationships, for your family. Sometimes the best course of action is to just let everybody know up front.

[Djinn]

92. maybe not but you can NOT be ashamed

not everyone finds an abortion traumatic - and I wouldn't mind betting that fewer women here (in Australia where there seem to be far less right to lifers) do than in the US - when half the world tells you that you SHOULD feel awful maybe that has something to do with it.

Many women just feel relieved.

[SunDrop23]

154. I'll third that.

JMO

[Almost_there]

10. Gotta agree with you...

As much as I support abortion, being proud of the fact, at least in my little opinion isn't something I'd flaunt. It's like saying "I just got a DUI!" or "My priest just raped my 6 year old and we caught him!" Seriously, an abortion isn't something to get high 5's for. If you were in for an abortion, to me, it would appear that somewhere a mistake was made. A condom broke, pill didn't work, or someone just forgot, but, I would not really be proud of having my uterus (if I had one) scraped. I am speaking from the wrong gender, but, it just sends a weird message.

~Almost

[StandUpGuy]

102. There is soooo much wrong with your post

I'll start with you thinking you are of the wrong gender to debate this issue, and work down from there.

There is no wrong gender for any debate. Would you consider a woman to be unqualified to discuss vasectomy?

Perhaps the emotional condition of her husband and the impact it had on her was enough that it made a woman feel she would like to share her experience with men considering the procedure.

"it would appear that somewhere a mistake was made. A condom broke, pill didn't work,"

Seriously, a condom breaking, or a pill not working is not a mistake. It is a malfunction.

You might consider this semantics but it is far from it as you try and associate shame with the things you misrepresent as mistakes.


"It's like saying "I just got a DUI!" or "My priest just raped my 6 year old and we caught him!" Seriously, an abortion isn't something to get high 5's for. "

Again your analogies are disingenuous and misleading to be kind. The problem with your examples are their ILLEGALITY.

Abortion is not illegal. It IS like getting a mole removed, getting a nose job, getting a dental implant. These are all examples of ELECTIVE surgery. When I last checked all are still perfectly legal.

The kind of hate and guilt you are trying to inflict on women doesn't fly anymore.

It used to be fashionable to hate on women but now its just disgusting.

This is 2004 and if you weren't intending to be offensive then I suggest you rethink your position.

[Tansy_Gold]

111. Thanks, StandUpGuy, for standing up.

:-)

[TheWraith]

127. You're the one being offensive.

The guy expresses an opinion and you try to claim that he hates women. That's BS, and you should be ashamed of trying to twist his message that way. It's a manipulative and deceitful tactic.

By the by, abortion is NOT like getting a mole removed. It's a far more serious and sometimes life-altering proceedure than simple cosmetics. Moreover, it disturbs me that you consider the termination of what is, if not in your view a human life, then at least a potential human life, as being on the order of getting a mole removed.

[Almost_there]

135. I didn't know I was "soooo wrong". Thanks for enlightening me!

OK, I put the "caveat of gender" in my post because it had previously been an issue in this thread and I wanted to toss in a beware. That's all.

And what do you call accidentally skipping a day on the pill and then getting pregnant? A "memory malfunction"? Or how about "I'll pull out, don't worry" is that a "removal malfunction?"

Now, about your my "being offensive", dude, I haven't even started. Yes, my arguments were MEANT to be ridiculous and were specifically illegal to point out the ridiculousness of them. Would you like me to come up with a few dozen personal things no one wants to know about? How about this little list:

Male Gender Specific:
"I use Ciallis 'cause I can't get an erection!"
"I use a Swedish Penis Enlarger Pump because my wife thinks I'm too small"
Female Gender Specific:
"I use Summer's Eve because I get a 'Not so Fresh'(c) Feeling"
"I wear edible undies because my husband is kinky"
Gender Neutral:
"This car climbed Mt. Washington"
"I had a squammis melanoma removed this morning!"

</being pissed off tirade>
And how about this one:
"I Had an Abortion, but, HIV stuck with me!"
Think THAT'S a JOKE??? HMMM?? Heard about this whole AIDS thing? No? Would you like to meet my HIV positive friends? Care to talk about safe sex with them? Maybe you could enlighten THEM on your fabulous insite into not bothering with protection cause HELL! You can just get an abortion and their toss in a FREE DAMN T-SHIRT!
</end PISSED OFF MODE>

Seriously, there are certain things that I don't think should be put in someone's face. It is a personal choice, and sure, you can wear the shirt, but, I think it is going to hurt the cause, give ammunition to people looking to:

1) Show that abortion is used in lieu of a birth control device.
2) That abortion is becoming as easy to get as a cheeseburger at McDonald's
3) That kids under (insert age here) are getting abortions without their parent's permission and flaunting it.
4) That kids are not only having sex younger and younger but, advertising the results. (I actually see kids, under 16 wearing this for shits & giggles)

Seriously, I am very strongly in favor of a woman's right to choose, but, don't be so naive to think that you can't shoot your whole damn cause in the foot simply because you are in the right. I think this idea is foolish.

~Almost

[He loved Big Brother]

130. Preventing unwanted children is something to be proud of

Be it abortion or using condoms or abstinence.

[k in IA]

11. Agreed - everyone of them is a personal tragedy.

[Djinn]

94. not true

NOT everyone of them is a personal tragedy - you're speaking for a hell of a lot of women you've never met there.

[RummyTheDummy]

14. I agree

I believe abortion should remain legal (even though I abhor the process) but the shirt is in poor taste, just like those right wing fundie shirts and bumper stickers showing aborted fetuses.

Truth be told, both sides bore me with their non-stop rhetoric.

[gatlingforme]

29. I am sorry you find this so boring. Jeeeez.

[Bo]

26. I don't either....

nobody really "likes" abortion...people simply use that right.

[noahmijo]

70. I agree

Sure it pisses off the right but it helps fan the flames that liberals take pride in having abortions rather I think those of us who are pro-choice would never proudly or happily advocate anyone have an abortion.

[wildeyed]

93. I don't think it is about

being proud. I am spouting this statistic off the top of my head, but I think something like 1 in 4 women have had an abortion. So it's a very common procedure. And nobody ever talks about the fact that they had one. If every woman who has had the procedure got a tee shirt and wore it, the RW would pretty much have to fuck off.

[TheWraith]

124. Agreed.

So many people on our side forget that many Americans find unneccessary abortions actually quite apalling, and the extreme to which those people often go damages the cause of keeping neccessary abortions legal.

The pro- and anti- abortion forces have gone at each other too long to have any remaining perspective. They do what they do now solely to be the opposite of the other, not because it's right.

[Tansy_Gold]

136. Maybe you don't have a perspective, but I trust there are

a great number of people on both sides of the issue who have a whole lot of perspective. I think they came from a perspective and while some of them may have toughened their respective stances, I don't think they've lost sight of their original rationale or objective, however flawed those on the other side may see it.

This is not a mere us v. them issue. I for one engage in frequent discussions with several other pro-choice activist women (and a couple men) as we analyze the logic of the antis and deal with our own doubts. I hardly consider that a loss of perspective.

For one thing we -- and by "we" I mean only the off-DU discussion group to which I belong, and I don't pretend to speak even for all of them -- recognize that there is a culture of the sanctity of motherhood in which all of us were raised. Most of us are mothers, either by giving birth, by adoption, or by step-motherhood, and so we have some experience with the miracle of (born) life. We aren't callous baby-killers.

But we've also seen and personally experienced many of the situations and responses that are so casually dismissed by others: the embryo that doesn't develop the way we hoped, the birth control that fails, the late-in-life unexpected pregnancy that poses a danger to health and livelihood, the gang rape that results in pregnancy.

One of the members of our group is a recovering alcoholic. She likened the wearing of an "I had an abortion" tee-shirt to the wearing of an AA tee-shirt.

<snip from her email, and if she's also on DU and reads this, my apologies, but it's a good quote!>

"I'm not proud that I started drinking on a daily basis at the age of 12. I didn't know then that when I was a little kid and my dad let me drink out of his beer bottle and then get one of my own that he was an alcoholic and it ran in the family. I'm supposed to know this at age 6 or 7? I'm not proud of most of the things I did while I was so drunk I didn't remember them afterward. And I'm not really proud of being a 22-year member of AA. Alcoholism is a disease, in my case genetic, and it's not my fault that I got sick with it. Just as it's not a 12 year old girl's fault that she gets pregnant when her babysitting uncle repeatedly rapes her, or when a genetic malfunction turns an embryo into an anencephalic non-being. I chose to take the action that would help me stop drinking and I guess in a way I'm proud of that. So a woman who chooses to take the action to end a pregnancy maybe ought to take some pride after all in making a tough but wise decision."
<end snip>

Once again, the outcry from the outraged has forced Planned Parenthood to take an action that will silence the voices of the women who ought to have a right to speak out. Their stories aren't appropriate for the tender sensibilities of the RW nutcases. Their stories aren't, apparently, appropriate even for the tender sensibilities of the pro-choice people right here on DU who don't really want to know about the real women who have benefitted from the on-going battle to preserve their rights to control their reproductive capabilities.

The anti-choicers recognize no such sensibilities on their side. They have a semi-trailer with pictures of (alleged) aborted fetuses that they drive around various communities to scare people. They bring what they call aborted fetuses fresh from the abortion clinic dumpster and dangle them in front of people trying to get into the clinic. They lie to pregnant women, women who are already frightened and confused and assaulted emotionally in a culture that doesn't not offer them much in the way of emotional choices, if they're even remotedly able to avail themselves of physical choices.

Yet when the pro-choice side offers women an opportunity to let their voices be (albeit silently in print) heard, too many on the pro-choice side scream that it's not appropriate.

I think that's hypocrisy.

But then again, I also think I'm


Tansy Gold

[celloise]

153. Frankly, you are incorrect

To put it so crudely as "braying" is wrong and insensitive in the first place. Also, women should be allowed to display their choice proudly, and the pro-choice stance should not be seen as taboo. How do we get rid of a taboo? By using it and putting it out into the open so much that it is no longer taboo.
Also, abortions can be extremely emotional and personal, but, in my opinion, should not be. They are simply a surgical procedure, in the same category as getting a small cancer removed or a tooth pulled. A fetus is not a person.

[rawstory]

5. IMAGE

(and direct story link) here: http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=143

[hyphenate]

7. I think it takes

a lot of guts to do it, but hell, that's what we need--to make it a talking point so that it can be discussed more openly.

Hell, it's only been when we've gotten ertain things out in the open that we've been getting rid of the stigma attached to it. When I was a kid, masturbation was something that would make you go to hell, grow hair on your hands, stunt your growth and make you ostracised from society. As it never really DID all that once it was more discussed, it lost its stigma and the horrors it conjured up. It also works the other way, too: incest and other child sexual abuse was hidden in the closet for many, many years, and children and adults both suffered from its effects. When it was finally discussed in the open air, it was shown to be a deviant behavior, and criminally prosecutable. It's when religious groups hide their own agenda by trying to keep things Under wraps" that gross indecencies develop. Some things just can not stand the naked light of day, and others need that light to show they're not monsters.

[liquidfiend]

34. A lot of guys do it

But would you walk around with a shirt that read, "I jerk off".

[short bus president]

104. absolutely.

and a big shiny button that says "ASK ME HOW!" World would be a better place if more people were more handy with themselves. World would also be a better place if everyone who could benefit from an abortion could get one. This puritanical bullshit is SICK!

[DoNotRefill]

120. WHERE!!!!

can I get that shirt?!?!?!? I'd wear it, just to see reactions.

[earthside]

9. No, Please, No.

If this is true, it is pretty disgusting.

Being for freedom, privacy, the right to chose is a commendable value. But we all wish abortion was "rare, safe, and legal", don't we?

A shirt that proclaims "I had an abortion" is like a corporate CEO proclaiming "pollution means jobs".

Indeed, it is this kind of extreme, smug, radical statement that is the greatest danger to getting Bush out of the White House. Let's not give them anything to point at that says we're to far out to govern.

I just hope this isn't true.

[Krupskaya]

12. I think your analogy

...is weak. I do not see how saying "I had an abortion" compares at all to "pollution means jobs." I also don't see how it's smug, extreme or radical. Could you elaborate?

[Almost_there]

17. How could you be proud of an abortion?

From the one person I know who has admitted to having an abortion, she said it was a terrible thing. She said she felt scraped out and empty inside, and psychologically, it wasn't like going to Disney World I am sure.

The Pollution makes jobs analogy is about as ridiculous, because essentially, polluting DOES make jobs. It's just looking at something from the wrong perspective. Like looking at electric hybrid cars with fear because you might get electrocuted in an accident.

~Almost

[The Animator]

125. Have you been to Disney lately?

It always leaves me feeling scraped out and empty inside. Course I always walked in singing "Welcome to Duloc" anyways.

[pop goes the weasel]

16. kudos to those brave enough

to wear it.

Those here who are squeamish about it, well, the whole point is to make you squeamish. There is an underlying assumption that decent women don't have abortions. The truth is that all sorts of women have abortions for all sorts of reasons. Some of those reasons are trying to undo the damage of bad judgment, some are undoing the damage of failed technology, some the damage of physical violence, some the damage of a body or two bodies together not working right. No one is proud of having an abortion, but why should anyone be so ashamed that it can't be admitted to? It should be no more shameful than getting a dose of antibiotics. Sure, the antibiotics might be used to undo the results of bad judgment, or they might be used for a whole range of other reasons. We don't condemn that medical procedure just because some people are foolish, and we shouldn't condemn this one either.

[Tansy_Gold]

57. Barbara Ehrenreich had a superb op-ed piece in the NYT

last week about abortion honesty.

I don't have the URL, but it's probably still available.

What she said, however, is that some people who have had abortions for the "right" reasons look down on the people who have had abortions for the "wrong" reasons, as if a "good" abortion isn't really an abortion. Often these people are white middle class married women who choose to terminate a pregnancy not because they don't want a baby but because they don't want the particular one they've been given: it's defective and they only wanted -- and expected to get -- a perfect baby.

Abotion isn't necessarily the "last resort for a pregnancy that shouldn't ever have happened." Sometimes it's the first resort to a wanted pregnancy that's gone wrong -- either horribly wrong or just not-quite-what-I-wanted wrong.

I see a lot of bumper stickers that say "I had a loved one killed by a drunk driver," and I don't think anyone puts those on their vehicles out of pride. They do it to make people aware that the statistics have a human face.

The same is true of abortion. Not everyone who has terminated a pregnancy is a stereotype, and I think THAT is the message the tee-shirts attempt to get across.


Tansy Gold

[tlcandie]

69. Thanks Tansy_Gold! eom

[Tansy_Gold]

76. You are VERY welcome!

Bit I'm only taking my cue from Ehrenreich. If you like, I'll post the URL later today after I get home from work.

(And I should add that I believe the bumper stickers say "Someone I love was killed by a drunk driver"; the way I had it worded in my original post suggests that the bumper sticker owner had a loved one offed by a drunk driver, which is not the case. Tansy Gold regrets her ambiguous syntax!)

[wildeyed]

96. That was an excellent piece.

Also one of the reasons why I think it will be harder and harder to outlaw abortion. They can do test in the first trimester to detect problems that could previously only be detected much later in pregnancy.

[Boomer]

18. This is just plain sick

Abortion is a measure of last resort, a desperate act to remedy a pregancy that should never have happened. It is nothing to boast about.

I know several women who have had abortions and without exception they all find the experience to have been traumatic and painful. To parade that extremely personal decision on a t-shirt like some kind of advertising slogan is appalling.

[indie_voter]

19. I think this is a bad idea myself.

I am pro-choice. I want abortion to stay legal. However I also have seen both my babies via ultrasound around 10 weeks. They were almost fully formed, albeit tiny.

It must be a gut wrenching choice to abort. I am only thankful I never had to deal with this dilemma.

I am hoping by the time my daughter is old enough there will be safe accessible morning/week after pills (I know the alternative exists now, but it isn't easily accessible) which impede implantation so abortion will no longer be the only choice.

My real wish is she never has to face the possiblity of an unwanted pregnancy or a baby who has no chance of survival outside the womb.

[colonel odis]

20. pro-choice, here. but i've really got to question the wisdom

of doing this.

this could backfire in the court of public opinion, one that will be very important as we get closer to nov. 2.

[thebigidea]

21. because as we all know, elections are decided by t-shirts

Not since "I'm With Stupid" destroyed Dukakis' chances of winning have t-shirts been this important.

[colonel odis]

37. i wasn't saying t-shirts decided elections.

sorry if i'm not in lockstep on this idea.

imho, it's naive as hell and the right wing media will get a lot of mileage from it.

[thebigidea]

39. Yeah, maybe we should hold up big fetus pics instead.

[colonel odis]

47. didn't say that either, friend.

sorry if my opinion bothers you. or is it the fact that it's different from yours?

[thebigidea]

49. How does your opinion bother me? I'm just making snarky comments.

I don't even have an opinion on this issue... but feel free to act persecuted, oh woe is me, those mean lockstep goosesteppers... oh woe!

If everyone had my opinions, we'd be in serious fucking trouble.

[tooie]

60. agree

some would take it as an in-your-face approach to a personal decision..on second thought - why not advertise it to force it into the mainstream ??

[customerserviceguy]

121. Consider one group that might be affected

I was an infant adoptee, and every woman I would see wearing one of those shirts would in effect be saying to me, "You really shouldn't be here." Boldly, and loudly!

It would be as offensive as someone with a racial or sexist epithet on a T-shirt. Sure, it would be the wearer's right to wear it, but don't expect to be given any credence as being a person worthy of trusting by those who are just lucky to be here.

[tooie]

131. I understand your point

but why am I required to hold my tongue because of your situation ??

[customerserviceguy]

149. Common civility

might require it. Besides, this isn't your tongue we're talking about, you can choose when to use a tongue, and what to say with it. A T-shirt proclaims a message the entire time it is being worn.

If I'm a member of a religion that disagrees with yours (not applicable, I'm an agnostic) common civility requires that I not force an argument with you about my religion being better than yours. Of course, it's my right to do so, but few people would admire my tact in doing so.

All I can say is, being "in-your-face" about abortion is going to alienate more than the religious right.

[tooie]

151. you obviously do not agree

with the majority (as I've seen it) posts on this board.... personally, I think you're right - just wanted to see of there was any civility on this board.

[customerserviceguy]

152. Fair is fair

While I wouldn't restrict anyone's right to wear an "I had an abortion" T-shirt, I hope they will respect my right to stand next to them with my "I'm an adopted person, and I escaped being aborted" shirt. Free speech is free speech, as long as its the truth.

[DemBones DemBones]

23. Suggesting pride in having an abortion is a dumb idea.

And the introduction of the shirts is timed just right to coincide with the Democratic convention, isn't that interesting?

Giving the right wing media something to squawk about AND tie to the liberal Democrats this week. . . I'm wondering what Planned Parenthood's agenda is, apart from making a little money on the shirts and advertising their abortion services. Could they have picked a worse week to do this?

[Krupskaya]

24. Could someone please show me...

...where it says "pride" on this shirt? Or even "proud"? Jayzus, look at it. The shirt is black and the font and color understated. I see pride nowhere.

[Almost_there]

32. The message itself indicates pride.

I don't understand your point. If I wear a "NY Yankees" t-shirt, does that mean I hate the Yankees, or that I am proud to root for them? Or if I wear a blue tie, that I just hate the color blue? COme on, by wearing the shirt, the people are putting a very personal thing in your face, something that I personally wouldn't share with the world. You may as well wear a shirt that says "I got a DUI last night". What's the real difference? It is just so personal, and I don't see how this is going to really help planned parenthood's message of PROTECTION. (That is their stated goal, right?) To me, it cheapens the whole idea of abortion, and makes it into a $600 condom.

Be proud! Wear you're "My boyfriend told me he'd pull out in time but didn't and I got an abortion" t-shirt. I think this just is the wrong message. I can't wait to see the same girls that wear shorts with "BOOTY" on their pre-teen butts with this shirt. I am very pro choice, but, this is just the total wrong direction. I find zero positive in this message. I'll have to get my "I just cured my athlete's foot" and "My hemorroids are all cleared up!" t-shirts out of the closet, I guess. (Thankfully, I don't have hemorroids, but, I wouldn't want anyone to know that they've cleared up either!!)

~Almost

[Longhorn]

54. One difference is that driving while intoxicated is illegal

and abortion isn't. I understand your point but not everyone who gets an abortion has made a mistake. Some have been raped, some have developed medical problems, and some have experienced sudden and significant life changes such as loss of a partner or financial crisis. The reasons may still be highly personal, as are hemorroids and athletes foot, but your first two examples compare getting an abortion with illegal activity or carelessness and I think that's exactly the connotation that the makers of the T-shirts are trying to fight.

Edit: I thought I had replied to the wrong post but I was wrong about that!

Further, I think we pretty much agree on this issue -- I'd just like to see you make your point with more appropriate examples.

[Almost_there]

58. Would you advertise "I got raped and had an abortion"?

Seriously, if you advertise the fact that you had an abortion, 99.99% of the time, it isn't because of the fact that you were raped. Perhaps it was for a medical reason, but, from the general feeling I get about the shirt, someone who medically needed an abortion or was raped wouldn't be wearing this thing. If I were mugged, I wouldn't wear a shirt saying "I rode the number 7 and got mugged!".

This is my opinion, but, I just think this is to try and bring the fight to a new vocal level. And yes, you are correct, DUI is illegal and abortion is legal, and I don't want that to change, but, my putting on a "I Hate <insert minority group here>" is perfectly legal, but, not really considerate of anyone. Wearing a shirt with Hitler's face on it, same thing. Perfectly legal, just not prudent.

~Almost

[Longhorn]

65. I think we agree for the most part.

I edited my first reply and hope I've made my point clearer -- that I only disagree with the examples you used -- DUI and a woman and her boyfriend being careless -- but I agree that it is a little too personal to be advertising on a T-shirt. I certainly would not have worn a "I had a miscarriage" T-shirt!

[azrak]

146. In all honesty

if we could get every woman who has been raped to wear a t-shirt, THAT would be a truly impressive sight! Even the minors and seniors.

[Violet_Crumble]

59. Only to people who think there should be shame and secrecy involved...

And something else. Those folk in this thread who are carrying on about the *trauma* and *emotional pain* of an abortion. Hasn't it crossed their minds that it's the unwanted pregnancy that causes that, not the abortion. Continuing an unwanted pregnancy and raising a baby on yr own, or giving a baby up for adoption aren't exactly free of trauma and emotional pain either....

Violet...

[Tansy_Gold]

106. Unwanted pregnancies don't cause pain and trauma. . . . . .

. .. whatever gave you that idea? /sarcasm off/

In truth, unwanted pregnancies -- and the wanted ones that aren't turning out the way they were supposed to -- do cause pain and trauma. So does the whole pervasive attitude toward women who "don't want those precious gifts of life from the Lord."

I hate to break the news to some people -- even some here on DU -- but there really are women in this world who do not want to be cows, giving birth year after year after year. Yet the culture insists that every bundle, whether intended or not, must be a bundle of joy. And sometimes it's the inability of the woman to live up to that attitude that causes as much pain and trauma as anything.

Unless and until we as a society get past this concept of women as uteri with legs, we're going to continue having this debate. If the life of the fetus ALWAYS trumps the wishes of the mother, the mother has no rights whatsoever. And that's what causes the pain and trauma -- knowing that your world sees you as nothing more than an incubator.

If I ever see a woman wearing one of these tee-shirts, I will salute her.

Tansy Gold

[eridani]

119. Refusal of shame--

--is NOT the same thing as pride, dammit!

[NashVegas]

25. Has Planned P'hood Been Taken Over By Stealth Anti-Abortionists?

Because I can't think of any reason why their board, in their right minds, would have approven an item in such poor taste.

[JayS]

31. I wondered the same thing. This sounds like a very effective...

...way to scuttle your own ship.

[johnfunk]

27. Time to send the Bush Boy a custom t-shirt in this vein...

... one that says

I CAUSED
AN ABORTION

[Anwen]

28. Ugh. Bad idea.

I just can't imagine why anybody who had to go through the traumatic experience of an abortion would want to advertise it on a t-shirt. It seems to be in very poor taste, and frankly I don't think it furthers the cause of women's rights.

[DoNotRefill]

122. because if people keep silent about it....

the Right will eventually WIN.

An abortion is nothing to be ashamed of. Period. End of discussion.

[SemperEadem]

30. I'd have gone further with it...

"I had an abortion and Jesus forgave me when I asked."

What can they say to that?

[Strawman]

33. Is this story true?

I followed the link to the shirt in this story and it showed a different shirt. I didn't see a shirt like that in the Planned Parenthood Store.

[Almost_there]

36. They took it off the website...

As soon as this article came up, I went to http://www.plannedparenthood.org and the shirt was under "Wearables with a Message", exact same one as on this site. Now, it looks to be missing. I wonder if they yanked it already. Hmm. I don't know, I wish I had copied the link to the shirt.

OK... Here's the deal. I just called them, the T-shirts are still available, but, they took them off the web site and are not advertising them due to their controversial statement. I didn't get to speak to any representative, just a sales person, but, I am sure there is a whole story behind everything here. So, bottom line, they are still selling them, it is NOT a hoax, but, they are not advertising them. I still don't like it, but, I'll report, you decide.

~Almost

[rawstory]

41. STORY UPDATE: T-Shirts pulled from site

EXCLUSIVE TO RAW STORY
By John Byrne | Raw Story Editor

Planned Parenthood’s “I had an abortion” tee-shirts officially went on sale (cached copy) today, sparking ire from the conservative right. The shirts, which retail for $15, are billed as “soft and comfortable fitted tees assert a powerful message in support of women’s rights.”

The shirt says simply, “I had an abortion.”

Shortly after we posted this story, Planned Parenthood pulled the t-shirt from their website. A representative confirms that they are still selling the tees, but are not advertising them on their website due to their controversial statement.

Cached copy of T-shirt on their website is available at story link: http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=143

[chiburb]

35. How strange that so many DU men...

Support the "right to choose", then demean women for having made the choice.
"Abortion should be rare"
"Last resort"
"All abortions are painful"
"Nothing to be proud of"
All right wing phrases that are designed to inhibit a woman from choosing to abort. Let me put it this way:
1. It is none of our business if a woman has an abortion for whatever reason! Gender selection? Form of birth control? Gets turned on by the OB/GYN? None of our business!
2. If a woman wants to wear a shirt that says "I had an abortion", that is her choice too. What possible reason do men here have for keeping her "in the closet"? Just what is so SHAMEFUL about an abortion? It's either murder or it isn't, and since it isn't (at this time)why the shame? If it is, then work to change the law.
3. Since it IS legal at this time, there is NO difference (or shouldn't be) between an abortion and a tonsillectomy. So stop with the "never easy to decide" and "gut-wrenching" prose. This goes for certain DU women too... all you do with that rhetoric is feed the morals police with anecdotal evidence for their crusade against your bodies.

[colonel odis]

38. wondered how long it would take someone to play the

"keeping women down" card.

thanks.

[chiburb]

40. I did that how?

[Bridget Burke]

43. You struck a nerve.

That generally hurts.

[colonel odis]

50. funny. i think disagreeing with those who believe

this is a delightful idea is what's striking lots of nerves.

[earthside]

42. Sad

"It is none of our business if a woman has an abortion ..."?

But then wear a shirt that proclaims "I had an abortion." Sorry, but there is something really disconnected in trying to turn a very personal, private decision into a walking billboard pronouncement.

It is also very bigoted and narrow minded to essentially attack "DU men" who express an opinion about a message on a tee-shirt.

But I have been involved in such a personal decision and I think the cavalier attutude that it is just about politics or that it is no different than a tonsillectomy is what is shameful. How cold-hearted.

Indeed, there are very few medical decisions that compare to this one ... that speaks to our humanity, our desire for peace for everyone, about dignity for women, about responsibility for men.

Whomever is puting out this shirt is no friend of the pro-choice position. It is clearly meant to provoke scorn and derision for an important freedom and privacy right.

[chiburb]

44. You said:

"But I have been involved in such a personal decision and I think the cavalier attutude that it is just about politics or that it is no different than a tonsillectomy is what is shameful. How cold-hearted.

Indeed, there are very few medical decisions that compare to this one ... that speaks to our humanity, our desire for peace for everyone, about dignity for women, about responsibility for men."

Just what makes the decision to abort so shameful? Or more difficult than a tonsillectomy? YOU never had to make the decision, why project your feelings onto all women? What if a woman uses abortion as birth control? How is it wrong, bad, shameful, or any of your business? Perhaps you do think abortion is the taking of a life?

[Anwen]

48. You said:

"YOU never had to make the decision, why project your feelings onto all women?"

Your profile says you are a male, and so never having to make this decision yourself, how can you assume that abortions are *not* in fact "never easy to decide" and "gut-wrenching" for women? Just because you believe they shouldn't be doesn't make it so. So stop projecting *your* feelings onto all women.

And your comparison of an abortion to a tonsillectomy shows your lack of compassion and understanding of what women who have abortions go through.

[chiburb]

52. Ok, then I'll throw it right back at you:

How do YOU know there's anything gut-wrenching about it for ALL women? You can't know, only project your own OPINION onto everyone else.

It's amazing to me that you don't address any of my points in my OP, and, if you really are a woman, that you continue to regurgitate RW talking points in this thread. Truly amazing that you can speak for ALL women...

[Anwen]

53. Right back atcha.

1. I am, in fact, really and truly, a woman.

2. I didn't claim to speak for all women, but I know a couple women who had to make that decision, and it was NOT easy, or painless, or fun as you would like to imagine. And they would definitely not want to broadcast it on a t-shirt. If you know someone who got an abortion with complete emotional detachment, I would be truly surprised.

3. What points should I have addressed in your OP?

4. What RW talking points did I regurgitate? That abortion is a sin? That abortion should be made illegal? Nope, sorry, you're wrong. I'm 100% pro-choice.

[chiburb]

63. Response:

1. Ok, I'll take your word for it.

2. You'd be "surprised", you know a "couple" of women for whom it was not easy, painless, or fun. That's wonderful, but my point was that YOU don't know that to be true of all women. Therefore, my critique of the blanket statements in that vein still stands. Nobody has the right to PROJECT their feelings on to ALL women's experiences. That only helps with the RW talking points.

3. Never mind.

4. Then quit moralizing about the painful, difficult, or no fun aspects of abortion. For SOME, maybe many women that is true. But it is none of your or my business why someone makes that choice.

I'm outta here for a couple of hours. I'll check in later to continue if you want to.

[Anwen]

74. Ok.

Yes, I agree that no good comes from making blanket statements about people's experiences with abortion. For some it is a painful experience, for others it could be the best decision they ever made. Having never been there, I can't say it's equally painful for everyone, true -- but likewise, you cannot say that it is as simple and thoughtless as a tonsillectomy.

I also agree that it's none of our business why, how, or when someone chooses to get an abortion -- precisely why I don't think it should be advertised on a t-shirt. It's a very personal decision no matter what the reason, and walking around with that statement on a T-shirt only cheapens the hard-earned woman's right to choose. I'd much rather see T-shirts saying "I'm PRO-CHOICE" etc.

I don't want to get into a long, tedious debate about abortion and how people deal with it. I think we can agree that neither one of us can speak for all women. But I guess I just don't see how acknowledging that abortion is difficult for some women is playing into the RW's handbook. That's my only point.

[Djinn]

95. Speak for yourself Anwen

The amount of people on this thread that seem to think they can speak for ALL women in ALL circumstances is unbelievable.

Some women will find their abortions traumatic (my guess is those that have fallen for the bullshit that it SHOULD be and that have been bombarded with "abortion is muder" messages throughout their lives but that's just a guess)

Some women will have no emotional drama's and will be nothing but relived

Others will be a bit of both

Just because YOU believe they ahve something to feel ashamed of "doesn't make it so"

[Anwen]

101. I am.

See my post #74.

I find it unbelievable that people are putting words in my mouth.

I do not claim to represent the views and beliefs of all women. And just how did you reach the conclusion that I believe abortions are "something to be ashamed of" ??? Please show me where I said that.

[Djinn]

103. this is how

"And your comparison of an abortion to a tonsillectomy shows your lack of compassion and understanding of what women who have abortions go through.

If you know someone who got an abortion with complete emotional detachment, I would be truly surprised."

[Anwen]

114. Interesting.

I still don't see where I said abortions are something to be ashamed of, but if you're bent on putting words in my mouth, I cannot stop you. But using your own words, just because you say it doesn't "make it so."

[Djinn]

116. so what the problem with the T shirt

if you don't think that there's any shame to be had why not have it on the t-shirt - by reading this thread it's clear there are a considerable amount of people who while they beleive in choice and safe legal abortion actually have a bit of moral/ethical problem with people HAVING one.

Many people don't - hence T shirt.

[Anwen]

138. One last time

I don't think there is anything shameful about abortions, end of that discussion.

I do think there is a better way to advocate choice. While I don't have a problem with abortion, most people DO (even many people who are pro-choice have a little bit of a problem with it), and walking around with a T-shirt saying "I got one!" is not going to change the opinion of people who think it's wrong, and it's going to give the right even more ammo to preach their morals.

If you want to wear one, great. I just am curious - just how is this t-shirt going to help the cause? What is the point of it? Who is it going to convince that abortion is okay? Why not wear a shirt that says "I am Pro Choice", or as someone else suggested, one that says "I made my choice." ? That would have a more broad appeal and would still give the same message.

[Djinn]

147. I didn't make the decision

so I don't know exactly what the point/aim was. My guess is that, like has been mentioned on this thread, they wanted to bring abortion out of the closet, wearing a Pro-choice t-shirt doesn't have the same effect because as you mention many people are pro-choice in that they're pragmatic enough to know that without legal abortion people WILL still have them, but they personally think it's a negative thing, this t-shirt is presumably to let other women know that's it's NOT neccesarily negative and that not all women feel trauma or pain as a result of their decision to have one, the generally accepted "wisdom" these days (even in a country like Austraila where the abortion issue is far less divisive) is that while women should be able to get an abortion they should feel badly about it.

This - as someone mentioned before - is the difference between wearing a "gay friendly" shirt and an "out and proud" shirt.

[Anwen]

148. I see your point.

And I agree that the purpose of the t-shirt is probably meant to show that normal women have abortions and that it shouldn't have to be a negative experience.

However, I'm just worried that out in public this t-shirt will only bring negative attention, scorn, and possibly even harm to the person who chooses to wear it. Fair or not, I think most people will see this shirt as being "boastful" or "proud" about getting an abortion, and not see the intended message. Just look at the reaction here among a fairly open-minded bunch of people.

Protecting women's rights is essential, (especially considering the crowd we've got in the White House right now) and personally I just don't see this t-shirt encouraging more support for the right to choose.

[azrak]

144. If you are male

you could wear a shirt that says: I JUST saved $250,000 my lover had an abortion!

That is something to be PROUD of ;)

[Almost_there]

62. This is devolving into a pro choice / anti abortion debate

"Perhaps you do think abortion is the taking of a life?"

Does that matter on this thread? Do I have to be "on board" with the pro choice crowd to belong here and have my voice heard? Personally, I believe in a woman's right to choose. And that means to choose either way, and to have their voices heard either way. The shirt is essentially the yin / yang of "Your choice murdered a human life!" slogans of the right wing.

I think fighting fire with fire is always a losing proposition, because the louder you scream, the less content you hear, and the more screaming everyone else hears. Seriously, anyone can wear a "I had an abortion" t-shirt, I'd be willing to bet a good chunk of young girls rebelling will wear them to get reactions, and why not? They're certainly controversial. But, be prepared to have the pro lifers take out the old fetuses getting their brains sucked out in partial birth abortion T-shirts with catchy things like "Is this the abortion you had?" or "Have you killed a baby today"?

It just doesn't seem like the high road in the argument to be taking. We've already won, I really, honestly don't think the right to choose will be taken away, but, I won't stop figthing to keep it. They are the ones that need to scream to be heard, not us. And to me, this shirt is the beginning of a very loud scream.

~Almost

[Mandate My Ass]

45. Applause

:yourock:

[chiburb]

51. No, I don't rock...

The women of DU taught me those things. They rock!

[tlcandie]

61. I'm not going to agree or disagree with what you say here...

BUT I would like to say that as if the abortion itself wasn't bad enough the silence was the ultimate killer! NOONE wanted to talk about it! HUSH, HUSH! Let's NOT talk about it! Pretend it didn't happen! Nothing wrong here ...look over there!

It WAS SHAMING and still continues to be a shameful thing for women! It's a wonder they don't all dress in the burquas when heading out to have the abortion! :cry:

It happened, happens, and will continue happening as long as a lot of the feelings expressed on this DU site are maintained and NOT dealt with.

[chiburb]

64. Ok, don't agree or disagree. I agree with you! n/t

.

[Tansy_Gold]

67. I have seen so many raunchy tee-shirts on so many guys in

so many locations that I cannot believe anyone would make a deal about this tee-shirt.

There will probably be 10,000,000 tee-shirts that objectify and/or demean women to every "I had an abortion" tee-shirt. Do we worry that these anti-woman tee-shirts will keep women from voting? Do we care? Have we ever even given it a thought, or do we just take it for granted that men will wear sexist tee-shirts and women should just shut up about it?

The woman who wears an "I had an abortion" tee-shirt is a threat to the establishment. not only did she have the abortion, but she's not ashamed of it. She exercised her right to choose, and whether the nay-sayers want to admit it or not, she survived physically and emotionally. Her strength, her resilience, her determination are a blow to all those who say -- as they used to say to divorced women -- "Well, all right, if you feel you HAD to do it, fine, but for goodness' sake, don't let anyone KNOW."

I learned a few weeks ago that one of my daughter's best friends terminated a much-wanted pregnancy last spring. The conjoined twins shared most major organs and although they might have developed in utero for several more months, there was no hope of either surviving to delivery, and no means of separating the two. The pregnancy was terminated and the mother is now pregnant again. Hers, of course, was a "good" abortion, but in another day and time, even that would not have been available to her. She would have been forced to carry a non-viable pregnancy to its "natural" and undoubtedly traumatic end.

It's not been too many years since gays and lesbians have felt comfortable being out of the closet -- and indeed, many still don't. Yet because a few were brave enough, we've reached a point where gay marriage is now a possibility, where the openly gay are not automatically discriminated against in all situations. This would not have happened 30 years ago, or even 20. So if some of you are shocked and appalled at an "I had an abortion" tee shirt, you're probably akin to those who were shocked and appalled at those who wore "Lavender Menace" tee-shirts a generation ago.

I'm tired of worrying about how shocked the right wingers might be. I'm even tired of worrying about how shocked the moderates might be. There are just as many moderates who have had abortions as radicals, and they need to be reminded of it.



Tansy Gold

[WillyT]

78. Right On Tansy, Right On Chiburb !!!

:yourock::yourock:

There's another reason why guys in particular might have a problem with women wearing this shirt. Can ya guess what it is???

:evilgrin:

[TheWraith]

128. Cheney you.

And the attitude you rode in on. For starters, abortion SHOULD be rare, AND a last resort. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't be the least bit unhappy if it became entirely unneccessary. Any way you slice it, an abortion means something bad has happened: deformity, rape, somebody not taking responsibility for their reproductive organs, you name it. Are you in favor of unsafe sex, rape, or fetal malformation? Unless you are, how do you explain your apparent stance that abortion is a good and desirable thing?

You come in with this BS attitude that the Evil Men are trying to supress the good womenfolk, then tell the women that disagree with you to shut their mouths and fall in line behind you. Smells like fresh hypocrisy to me.

[Parche]

55. t-sHIRT

Lets buy one for Bar Bar Bush!!!

[tlcandie]

56. Guess I'm confused... where did it say anything about being proud?

So, wearing one of the t-shirts equals you are proud of having had an abortion?

Wearing a something that makes a statement doesn't mean you endorse it; that you are proud of it; it means that it has meaning to you.

If you want to know more about WHAT exactly that meaning is then maybe you need to talk to the person wearing it or ask them to talk about it?

You know what they mean by ASSuM(E)ing....

I've had several abortions...all when I was younger. One was forced on me by my parents, the others were my choice. Am I proud? No. Would I wear one of these t-shirts... maybe. Why? Because I think that people need to understand that people are not hard, cold, cruel baby killers who have abortions.

Putting faces to this madness, IMO, would take the hard edge off of it. But that is just my two cents and I'm sure it's worth even less than the two cents I stated!

:hi:

[sangh0]

66. In the RNC Propoganda Guidebook

.

[tlcandie]

72. I see ..

So, wearing a t-shirt that says, "I'm a cancer survivor," is being prideful and shouldn't be worn either because it is, after all, something noone really wants to talk about... ESPECIALLY when it's removing a woman's breast(s)...right?

And what about all those men's t-shirts about getting some pussy or a cherry or a virgin or whatever the hell they are? What ARE those? And it is okay to wear those?

IMO, wear what you want, say what you want...don't listen to other people and form your own opinion. Just be prepared to listen to the BULLSHIT from some narrow-minded people!

I don't care what t-shirt anyone wears! It is THEIR business NOT mine! I don't care if it said, "I JERK OFF!". If it offends me I turn my head and move on. Many things offend me, but it isn't my GAWD-given right to scream about it to someone and tell them they should not wear something or do it!

At this rate, the next thing you know we will outlaw wearing anything that even hints at an American flag! .. *walks away shaking head*

EDIT: Since when do we play by the RNC playbook? If that IS what we are or have been doing wrong then that certainly explains a LOT about what the hell is wrong with the Democratic Party!

[sangh0]

77. Regarding your edit

I'm not so sure it's "we" who are saying it's a sign of pride, if you know what I mean.

[tlcandie]

81. Sorry sangh0... guess I kinda missed the hinted target there! LoL

:hug:

[indie_voter]

71. I see your point and I am sorry for any pain you had to endure. n/t

[tlcandie]

73. Thanks.. indie_voter...

Although I wasn't looking for empathy or sympathy.. just trying to make a point! BUT :hug: anyway!

[dolstein]

68. How long before we see "I Put My Child Up for Adoption" t-shirts?

Personally, I don't think having an abortion is anything to be proud of. While I support legalized abortion, at least during the early stages of pregnancy (and for medical reasons during the later stages), I think every abortion is tragic, and I really don't see the point of celebrating tragedy.

[sangh0]

79. My friends abortion was not tragic

It enabled her to remain fertile. Instead of having to sacrifice her life for a fetus that was going to die before it was viable, she had an abortion, and is now the mother of three.

[WillyT]

83. And My Mother, Who Just Celebrated Her 75th B-Day Yesterday...

had three miscarriages before I (the oldest child) was born. The doctors classified her as a 'habitual aborter' (I swear) and told her she would never have any children.

Me and my three younger sisters have a good laugh about that with her every now and then!

:grouphug:

[dolstein]

88. Well, that's your opinion

I don't know how far along the pregnancy was, but I seriously doubt your friend was skipping out of the doctor's office singing a happy tune after being told the news.

[azrak]

145. How about if you are male

You could wear a t-shirt that says: I JUST SAVED $250,000 MY LOVER HAD AN ABORTION!

[jpgray]

75. I think a better slogan would be 'I made my choice'

Because that's what's really important--keeping the options there, and keeping them safe and legal.

[tlcandie]

80. My choice, my way, my body, my right?

NOW, SHOVE IT!?

You might just be on to something there! BUT, how will they know that it was in regards to an abortion?

[jpgray]

82. Well, if there's any Planned Parenthood insignia

Things should be pretty clear. I think the problem people above have is that it will be interpreted as being proud of the abortion itself, rather than having the right to choose one. So I'd rather see the shirt focus on the exercise of choice--that way, no one will know if abortion entered into it. Even mothers who carried to term and raised their kids or put them up for a adoption could wear it, because it would be about the ability to choose.

[tlcandie]

85. Honestly, I think that n/m what you say about abortion...MOST

people will interpret it their way and w/o any objectivity.

I suppose in this day and age the only thing we should be proud of is bombing and torturing innocent Iraqis. :cry:

[indie_voter]

86. I love it!

Front: My choice, My body, my right.

Then on the back

Now Shove It.

I think the My choice & My Body makes it clear. This also paves the way for those of us who haven't had an abortion but want to show solidarity with our sisters who have!

We have to protect our right to choose.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

156. Excellent idea.

It's nobody's business if you have an abortion. Freedom of choice is the issue.

[TahitiNut]

84. For reichbot, Busholini supporters: "I AM an abortion!"

:silly: :dunce: :party:

[scarlet_owl]

87. I'm pro-choice and everything,

but that's pretty tacky.

[prole_for_peace]

89. I think its about putting a face on abortion, not being proud.

If women ordered and wore the shirts it would should a range of colors, ages and incomes.

Also, I had one when I was 19 and it wasn't traumatic to me at all. It was a choice. I didn't want a child at that age. Actually I am now 38 and still don't want a child. It was a personal decision, yes, but I get angry when it can't be discussed for fear of others reactions. I have told very few people. Not because I am ashamed but I don't feel like I have to explain myself or my decisions to everyone.

I wish they hadn't pulled the shirt, I would buy one.

[Catherine Vincent]

90. If I had one, I wouldn't want to advertise it.

They should have t-shirts that says "Keep Abortion Legal" or something like that.

[Djinn]

97. Presumably because you feel it's something shameful

other women don't feel that way.

[demgurl]

91. Not many women will speak up on this side.....

of things so I feel the need to do so myself. I have had an abortion. I did not suffer except maybe in the doctor's office for a very short while and that was a physical sort of suffering. It hurt just a little, almost like a pinch.

I have heard so many times about all the remorse and suffering that women go through when they have an abortion. And, of course, Roe has been held up as an example. Perhaps these are women who do not feel that it is religiously right? They really do believe that this is a baby they are aborting? I personally believe life begins at birth. I have had no regrets. I have seen ultrasounds - especially of my two little boys when they were in my tummy.

I have never mourned the 'lost life of my unborn child'. I have not cried. I did not feel empty inside. I did not feel as if I had been scraped out. And I have struggled with the fact that I do not have enough money to buy one of these shirts. I am not 'proud' of my abortion, but I feel no remorse. I want to help the stigma go away so women do not suffer and believe they have done something so terribly wrong just because society tells them they have.

Usually I do feel this is only my business. Up until today, only three people knew about the abortion. I feel this is important enough to share. Not all women think it is wrong. Not all women feel physically violated. Not all women cry and go through mental hell because of it.

Thanks for listening.

[Djinn]

98. well said demgurl

:toast:

[wildeyed]

99. Thanks, demgurl

For posting about your experience. I get so tired of people posting about how tragic all abortions are. For some people they are for some they are not.

Would it be weird to have another thread where women post about their personal experiences with abortion? Or is that just asking for too much trouble?

[demgurl]

100. Not sure that so many people would want to share....

especially if it had been traumatic. It may be weird but I guess you could try if you wanted.

You folks are quite welcome. I just wanted to show that there is another side to it all and that not everyone is ruined for life and lives with regrets. I have never ever had mental pain or a single regret. I am the other side of the story - the one they do not want you to hear about.

[tlcandie]

110. thanks for sharing!!!

:hug:

demgurl, I was 16 when my first abortion was forced on me. I had no real clue. I was not told about what to expect or talked to in any regards only that it would be done!

It was shameful to talk about it I guess beforehand as it was afterwards. I think that in a large part that led to a lot of my spiraling downfall and negative feelings towards myself for most of my life.

It was scarey. No adult was in the room with me. It was very clinical, cold, removed. I saw the new boyfriend I had the next day, thanks to my parents, and just pretended I was having my period (yes that is what they use to call it.).

I'm no longer ashamed. I'm no longer that person either. I don't think I cried at the time either. Many years later I did. It was all so traumatic for me because I did not want an abortion, but my VERY strict religious parents told me I had no choice. A couple of years later when I became pregnant by the same person who I was absolutely crazy about, I ran away from home. My son is now 30 years of age and a police officer with a wife who will never have children.

I hate to see it when others judge and use shaming terms and statments regarding abortions. I don't like seeing things swept under rugs. Not abortions, children, innocent people killed for $$$$ in wars, drugs, prostitution, etc. The more out in the open the better. The more legalised, the better. All anyone does when they make anything illegal is cause it to go black market and someone gets rich while others suffer miserably. Legalise it and let people make their own life choices.

Just because some people can't trust themselves to make the right decisions, it seems they want to make sure no one else has the chance to make their own decisions either, so they make them for them.

You sound like a very strong person...may your life always abound with happiness and may your wisdom be richly rewarded in spirit and on earth.

[Tansy_Gold]

112. FYI

There is a website for women who have had abortions and aren't racked with guilt.

www.imnotsorry.net

[tlcandie]

134. Tansy_Gold... again thanks .. will check it out! eom

[Tansy_Gold]

137. www.imnotsorry.net is not working

I'm not sure why. I've contacted some of the people responsible for it and will find out what's going on and post or PM the info.

[ButterflyBlood]

108. not at all good

while we should keep abortion legal, it is not something to flaunt. This just gives more ammo to the right "see, they are pro-abortion, not pro-choice, they're bragging about it!"

[wickerwoman]

113. You're right. And if only those "queers" would stop flaunting it too...

It just gives more ammo to the right "see, they are holding hands in public and wearing strange clothes, they do want to corrupt our youth!"

People are who they are. People who have had abortions have done nothing illegal or shameful. People who are gay have done nothing illegal or shameful. Why shouldn't they "flaunt it" or at least be able to bring it up in a conversation with their friends?

It's attitudes like yours (and many other peoples' on this thread) which perpetuate the shame which makes abortion such a difficult decision for many women. What's the point of keeping something legal if we're going to heap scorn and judgement on those who avail themselves of the choice.

I've never had an abortion, but if I did I wouldn't hide it from anyone. And I would never judge someone else who did have one. Arguing that "abortion is nothing to flaunt" _is_ a judgement and one inconsistant with your claim to support legal abortion.

[ButterflyBlood]

115. I get drunk. I'm underage. I don't think it's wrong.

But I don't wear a "I get drunk and I'm underage" T-shirt.

They should defiantely be able to bring it up in a conversation with friends. But one doesn't need to wear such a shirt to do so.

I think the problem with flaunting it is because while I have no problem with abortion, I can understand why some people would. And there are people who do have problems with it but still wouldn't want to make it illegal. I think emphasizing something like this is just tacky.

[wickerwoman]

123. Again, that's illegal and abortion isn't.

The point is that abortion is still a taboo in this country and the only way to break through a taboo is to flaunt it.

I'm sorry if that upsets close-minded control freaks but my self-respect dictates that no one will shame me into keeping quiet about something I had every right to do. And I refuse to be a party to the shaming of other women. What am I saying? I'm not sorry at all.

[WildClarySage]

109. The stigma of abortion

can only favor the right and contribute to the erosion of reproductive rights. If these shirts do just a little to tear down the rhetorical shame associated with abortion, I'm all for 'em. I also like the idea of a My Body My Choice shirt b/c I made a choice at one time and now have a son. I stand 100% behind every woman who has ever chosen- as I did, or differently. And I applaud those who will deal with their choices honestly.

[DoNotRefill]

117. self-deleted...

didn't want to cause a misunderstanding...

[The Animator]

126. "I eat unborn babies for breakfast…Vote John Kerry"

Holy crow Batman!!!

Where can I get one of those! I may not have ovaries, but I know a great T-Shirt slogan when I see one!

[ze_dscherman]

129. The end of anti-abortion laws in Germany

came when in 1971 women publicly came out about having had an abortion. Some hundred women, some of them famous, stated an abortion in a well know German "Stern" news magazine - some on the title page (IIRC). This started a big campaign, finally leading to pro-choice laws some years later.

The same approach - women going public on their abortions - was chosen in France a bit earlier.

[tlcandie]

133. Thanks ze_dscherman...

Your post requires no reply except the one I've given! :hi:

[lumpy]

132. I can't imagine any woman

who has had an abortion going for a stupid tee shirt idea that trivializes a traumatic experience. Cheap and vulgar.

[skypilot]

139. I'm curious about something.

How many guys here would wear a t-shirt that said something like "I got my girlfriend/wife pregnant and she had an abortion"?

Something about these Planned Parenthood t-shirts seems to me to let the guy off the hook. I know that the final decision is made by the woman but the man does play a part in putting her in the position where she has to make that decision. Where's the man's version of this shirt?

[Red State Rebel]

140. Wow, you are dead on with that one. n/m

[demgurl]

141. TlCandie, thanks for the support and the post.

I am so sorry for what you had to go through. You sound like a strong woman and I am glad things got better for you as time went on. (((hugs)))

And to everyone else who has thanked or supported what I said, thanks.

As to being proud and wearing the shirt, that is what I think people are projecting onto the shirt. What the shirt says, for me, is that I have had an abortion and it is nothing that is illegal or that I should hang my head in shame for. Saying I, or another person, is proud of an abortion is in the same ilk of saying someone is pro abortion instead of pro life. No one goes out and says, "Oh boy, I am going to get pregnant and have an abortion." I am for everyone's choice to have one if they want one. I have had one.

I had a long talk, about the shirt, with my husband who is pro-life. (and a dem) He does not want me to wear the shirt, but said he will respect my right to wear it. He understands why I feel a need to make this normal and not a scarlet letter type of thing.

Those who say a person wearing it is saying they are proud and boasting are wrong. Who is proud? Of what? It is not an a accomplishment. The folks who wear this are trying to get rid of the type of stigma that causes people to say the wearers are proud of it.

I am sorry if the shirt offends folks, but I have been through it. It is a perfectly legal procedure. People who would be offended would be morally offended and disregard that in the eyes of the law it is a perfectly legal procedure that thousands of women go through all the time.

I have nothing to be ashamed of. I have driven legally and not had a speeding ticket in years. I have had a legal abortion. I have never been arrested. I don't do drugs. I look at myself in the mirror each and every morning.

I will do everything in my power to remove the stigma. I am not proud, I am just standing up and saying that this happens and it is legal.

[chiburb]

142. You go Gurl !!!!

:toast:

[customerserviceguy]

150. There's a reason for the stigma

When Bill Clinton called for abortion to be "legal, safe, and rare", the rare part was not widely disagreed with.

Of all Constitutional rights, which ones do we really want to be rare? Should there be rare free speech, or rare religious freedom? Should protections from illegal search and seizure ever be rare?

About all the good examples of rare freedoms that I can think of, at least in an individual's personal life are those related to criminal prosecution. I hope I have a rare number of jury trials! I hope I'm in a situation where I rarely have to use my Miranda rights. Being accused, and then being acquitted of a crime does not make me a criminal, but I sure hope it doesn't happen often!

Maybe some people feel the same way about abortion.

[Isere]

155. We should refocus the discussion!

What is really at question is whether we are going to criminalize abortion or whether it will remain legal.

Those of us who are "pro-choice," that is, those of us who may not choose an abortion for ourselves, but would not deny it to another, we need to reframe the question.

If abortion becomes illegal, who will go to jail? Who will be prosecuted? Will doctors be locked up? And what about women?

These are the essential questions that must be asked before we vote for any candidate who wants to overturn Roe v. Wade.

If someone wants to wear a T-shirt proclaiming that she had an abortion, that's fine with me, but it doesn't really address the important questions. Maybe the T-shirt should say "I had an abortion and my doctor didn't serve time for it."

[Kimber Scott]

157. Reeeediculous!

Having an abortion should be "legal, safe and rare," but it's not something to be proud of.