UK Troops Held Torture Contests- Injured Iraqi Says

[JSJ]

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=862202004

"A HOTEL worker who says he witnessed British troops beating his friend to death in Iraq spoke yesterday of being subjected to "torture competitions" at the hands of the army.

Kifah Taha al-Mutari, from Basra, was speaking on the eve of a High Court challenge to the government over allegations surrounding the role of British troops in the deaths of six Iraqis.

Mr Mutari, who flew to Britain for the hearing, said British soldiers arrested him and a fellow hotel worker, Baha Mousa, 26, on suspicion of terrorism. Mr Mousa later died, allegedly after being beaten by soldiers from the Queen’s Lancashire Regiment in September.

Mr Mutari, speaking through an interpreter, said they were tortured for three days".

We're fucked in the heads, too, British tommies seem to be saying, after reports that American troops were better torturers than they are. No sir, exclaimed Sgt Major Ruddy Ruddifuck of the Lowland Brigideers. We're every bit the torturers the Yanks are; and I'll bloody well rip your face off your head if you say any different". -SJ

[Judi Lynn]

1. Hope the British are a little more responsive to their consciences

than the _Bush administration, and won't try to call this man a liar.

The beatings ruptured one of his kidneys and he nearly died, he said. According to a medical report by a consultant, Mr al-Mutari suffered acute kidney failure of "life-threatening proportions" - almost certainly as a result of deliberate injury.

The death of Baha Mousa is one of six test cases due to go before the High Court in London today. In a three-day hearing, lawyers for the families will ask two judges to rule that the Human Rights Act applies to British soldiers occupying Iraq and that independent inquiries should be held.

A Ministry of Defence spokesman said all allegations of death and mistreatment at the hands of British forces were investigated by the military. He said the government would argue that human rights legislation did not apply.
(snip/)

The prisoners have NO WAY to protect themselves, nowhere to run, and they must accept the torture as being inevitable. How many people could live through that without going totally mad?

[JSJ]

2. being tortured has to be a feeling worse than an impending firing squad

[lebkuchen]

3. What makes UK/US troops think that torture is their mission?

It used to be passing out candy to children. What happened?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. I think they were told it was ok to do this

the orders came from on high. This sort of behavior cannot be as systemic as it was without that, imho, because I refuse to believe that only sadistic sobs decide to join the military. Even the American soldiers who threw Iraqis off the bridge are saying in their defense that they were ordered to do it. And DOD reports are saying that there are nearly 100 cases of prisoner abuse that they have been able to document. Put this together with the 'torture is ok' documents the White House had, and I think the picture becomes pretty clear as to why this happened.

[JSJ]

5. following orders isn't an acceptable defense for troops...

...of high OR low rank per the Nazi War Crimes Tribunal following WW2. I never get tired of repeating this as this 'defense' comes up a lot.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

10. Not making a defense

I'm saying that they are covering up the real extent of abuse-the officers should do time as well as enlisted personell, if the officers ordered/condoned it.

[luaneryder]

6. It absolutely was sanctioned from on high

Of course, there are a few sadists in the military just as in any entity that provides a type of personal power. But, judging from my Army years the majority of the folks are in b/o they need a job and are just regular people. This torture is not something that suddenly began like an infectious disease amongst the enlisted; it was a direct (or indirect called "behoovement", which in the military is the same as direct) order.

[izzie]

7. Maybe they think they are living under Elizabeth the First?

Sorry I guess Mary was worse. Our own George Rex is after all a Hanover. We maybe have tuned it up some.

[Judi Lynn]

8. Related article...........

Families of Iraqis allegedly killed by British troops seek inquiry into their deaths
By Jill Lawless, Associated Press, 7/28/2004 12:20



LONDON (AP) Laughing British soldiers beat Iraqi prisoners, doused them with icy water and demanded they ''dance like Michael Jackson,'' lawyers for families of six Iraqis allegedly killed by British troops said Wednesday as they sought to force an independent inquiry into the deaths.

The lawyers asked two High Court judges to rule that European and British human rights laws applied to British soldiers in Iraq and that there should be independent inquiries to determine whether the six Iraqis including a man allegedly beaten to death during three days of detention were unlawfully killed.

The government says all allegations of death and mistreatment by British forces are investigated by the military. It says it will argue during the three-day hearing that European human rights legislation which guarantees the right to life and bars torture or degrading treatment does not apply outside Europe.
(snip)

''It cannot be right that torture in one part of the world outside the U.K. by British soldiers could be lawful under the European convention but not in another part of the world,'' Singh said.
(snip/...)

http://www.boston.com/dailynews/210/world/Families_of_Iraqis_allegedly_k:.shtml

[thomas_a]

9. A Pack Of Nasty, Yapping, Biting Poodles

This does not surprise me in the least. When the Blair government decided to join the Republican Party's invasion of Iraq I concluded that their reason for doing so relates to their unease with Britain's role in the world. The British once ruled over a huge empire. Today they are a minor world power, listened to only because they possess nuclear weapons. In short, they have the same place in the world as their former subject Pakistan.

This is not meant as an insult to the British people. It is simply not realistic that a small island nation could forever dominate huge countries like China and India. Moreover, is being a minor world power really a bad thing? At one time Sweden was a major military power but yet today the average Swede has a far better life than he did when Sweden had a huge army. Spain once had a great empire but the Spain of today is a much better place to live than the Spain of the 16th century.

However, some in the UK are not comfortable with being a small, but prosperous country. They want to maintain the pretense of their former glory and the only way to do so is to tie themselves to a megalomaniac like George W. Bush. Blair plays Mussolini to Bush's Hitler. It should come as no shock when some yipping little poodles in the British military try to show the big bad Republicans how tough they are by torturing hapless Iraqis.

I know that there are many, many decent people in the United Kingdom who are deeply disturbed by what is happening in Iraq. What I do not understand is why they are not working to get rid of Blair as we are working to get rid of Bush.

[struggle4progress]

11. kick

:kick: