Dem's Marine misfire

[DoNotRefill]

"The Marines — two in uniform and two off-duty — were polite but curt while chatting with Kerry, answering most of his questions with a "yes, sir" or "no, sir."

But they turned downright nasty after the Massachusetts senator thanked them "for their service" and left.

"He imposed on us and I disagree with him coming over here shaking our hands," one Marine said, adding, "I'm 100 percent against (him)."

A sergeant with 10 years of service under his belt said, "I speak for all of us. We think that we are doing the right thing in Iraq," before saying he is to be deployed there in a few weeks and is "eager" to go and serve."

http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/25935.htm

I thought the military weren't allowed to make political statements?

[goforit]

1. Sounds like he was personnally sent there to stir up trouble!!!

Orders from Bush.

[Birthmark]

2. They didn't make a political comment

It's the NY Post. Chances are, the whole thing took place in the "reporter's" imagination.

[Karenina]

17. The "story" is magically MORPHING!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x718966

[proud patriot]

57. IMO this doesn't feel genuine

In all my encounters with Troops either who have just
got back or are about to go . They are genuinely thankful
towards me . All I say to them is "thank you for your service
I may not agree with this president but I support you "

on edit: oops I meant to respond to the original post .

[qanda]

3. Did the reporters impose on them too?

If Kerry had not gone over to them it would have been in all the papers that Kerry doesn't care for the military-- no win situation for Kerry, in my opinion.

[Karenina]

19. Errraaaa....

Not sure it's Kerry we're talking about. :evilgrin:

[Trajan]

4. I dont read this as Kerry's fault ....

They seem a tad sociopathic, as if Kerry has no 'right' to speak to them .....

Bullshit: ... It's a free country; even for Kerry ....

Good thing they didnt have their M16's: they would have blown the whole township to smithereens ... "cause they looked at me" ...

[caber09]

6. according to the local paper

There was at least one or maybe a few Air National Guardsmen who were very eager to show support to Kerry at the same place. One Guardsmen spoke to Kerry and seemed to support him, thank god for the liberal media!

[Justice]

14. Do you have a link?

[Justice]

15. Here is one link

http://www.midhudsonnews.com/News/KerryEdwards_Nbrg-31Jul04.htm

The visit caught patrons by surprise, including Ed Reagan, who hours earlier, had enlisted in the Air National Guard. Kerry offered congratulations. “Wow! No kidding? Air National Guard? Good for you. God bless you. Thank you for serving.”

Was Reagan impressed? He remains a non-committal voter at this point, and had a more pressing concern on his mind. “Wondering when we’re going to get out of here, kinda, ya know,” he said. A reasonable concern.

[leetrisck]

5. And if Kerry hadn't spoken to them, he

would have been a rotten low life (according to all).

[Rose Siding]

7. Sounds like a set up.

Notice that it doesn't say whether the marine quoted was one of the ones out of uniform. I believe that's all that allows them to directly criticize govt officials- why else mention whether they were in uniform?

[still_one]

8. New York POST!!!

This was the same paper that said Kerry choose Gephart for VP

[nose pin]

22. Yahoo had it yesterday

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1506&u=/afp/20040730/ts_alt_afp/us_vote_democrats_040730232637&printer=1

[still_one]

9. The sergeant is an idiot

We are in the middle of a civil war in Iraq because of what this administration has done...

[Bo]

33. Stick a fork in Iraq

[RummyTheDummy]

38. Sometimes you have to left fools be fools

One is heading to Iraq soon. I hope he's careful over there. It's pretty dangerous.

[Ronnie]

44. This sergeant may have had

basic training (actually he sounds like he was brain washed), but he apparently wasn't home trained. Also, it said in several other reports that he said he supported his commander-in-chief 100%. I'd like to hear what he has to say next January when John Kerry is his commander-in-chief.

[bluestateguy]

10. Let's try and remember a few things here

In spite of all the stories we hear of veterans, soldiers and retired military brass endorsing Kerry, the fact is that the military remains an important part of the Republican electoral coalition. The military is overwhelmingly male, and that will be reflected in its Republican leanings, and people out there still associate the Republican Party with masculinity, muscularity, militarism and manliness. That's the way it is in 2004, though we have different opinions. These were Marines, the most Alpha of the Alpha males, and it should be no surprise that they would be Bushbots (though maybe a trip to the Fallujah woodshed would change their minds). Marines are more likely than any other branch to be male and militaristic, and thus Bush backers. Having said all that, the military vote WILL NOT go as heavily pro-Bush as it did in 2000, and in a close race that could mean a lot for Kerry-Edwards. John Kerry does not need a majority of the military vote, just like he does not need a majority of the Cuban vote in Florida. A good 40%-45% of the military vote would be extrordinarily damaging for the Bush-Cheney ticket.

[squidbro]

18. Not too surprising, but Bush still losing the military vote

The Marines like to project an image of "toughness" but that's all that it is, an image.

Many of them come from the bible belt areas of the rural South which is very strongly pro-republican. They join the Marine corps. because of its image.

If these guys were Marines, they may have been part of the color guard and have never seen combat. I suspect that those Marines that have served in combat have very different feelings.

They may not have been part of the color guard either, but stationed on the East Coast and haven't served any time in combat also.

I still have friends in the military. Many have served in Iraq. Not all of them have turned against Bush. Those that were stationed in the Kurdish areas have a much different perspective than those stationed around Baghdad.

The military is a very large organization. There will always be varied opinions that run the gamut from extremely liberal (those folks keep very quiet of course), to those who are very conservative (who are usually quite vocal). Then there are the psyco and sociopaths like the McVeighs.

It isn't surprising that the Post found a couple of Marines who did not like Kerry. However, it glosses over a much larger problem. A large percentage of the military is turning against Bush, including the majority of those in the reserves. Those that have served in Baghdad, especially those in the reserves are hardening against the republican party to a degree that even I have found surprising.

It's a problem for Bush. One that isn't going to go away no matter how the Post tries to spin it.

[Demoiselle]

27. I don't give a shit about the "military vote"

I would like to say to whatever jumped-up sorehead Marine who behaved with absolute lack of courtesy in that restaurant that (1) HE WORKS FOR ME. When last I checked the constitution, that's the way it's supposed to be. I am the US Citizen who pays his salary.And civilian authority is paramount in these United States. I can be Republican, Democrat, or Bull Moose, and he owes the same courtesy to any candidate I might choose to try to put into the White House. Also, (2) the little prat chose to be snitty to a DULY ELECTED UNITED STATES SENATOR, member of one of the CO-EQUAL BRANCHES OF THE U.S. GOVERNMENT. In other words, he effectively flipped the bird to ONE OF HIS SUPERIORS. Forgive the rant, but this is absolutely unacceptable behavior. We kissed this little sob's butt in 2000 when Leiberman said, in effect, that our soldier's absentee ballots were more precious than those cast by civilians stateside, even if they did break the rules or vote twice. God, this story infuriates me! (End of rant.)

[abburdlen]

40. Sorry to Obama but

We don't have a military vote and a civilian vote, we have american votes.

Was this guy a jerk? probably. Should we care what folks serving in our armed forces think? absolutly. Unlike the current administration we ought to care about every vote.

[nose pin]

47. Technically speaking

A US Senator is not in his chain of command. It goes from POTUS, to SECDEF, and down through the Chief of Staff of the Navy. Kerry won't be his superior until late Jan 2005.

[jimshoes]

11. Well, I'm 100% against the war in Iraq.

I don't think we are doing the right thing in Iraq.

[The_Casual_Observer]

12. I would bet that this didn't happen

If these guys were so pissed they would have supplied names. Is hearsay journalism here to stay?????

One would be able to easily tell this was a NYP article without seeing the masthead.

[MaineDem]

20. Aren't last names on the uniforms?

You'd think maybe a reporter would notice things like that.

[Columbia]

29. They were wearing Service Charlies

So no, last names are not usually pinned on this uniform.

[The_Casual_Observer]

48. Looks like Kerry made a mistake here

He may have read these guys wrong. They have a certain shitty look that says "stay away". It is not an uncommon military look. I am surprised that he didn't detect it right away. I am sure they were polite, but they would have had no problem blasting him after he left, if just for the fact that he approached and interrupted them. Those guys are on a different wavelength.

[nose pin]

21. It was mentioned in a story

that I posted yesterday.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=718557&mesg_id=718557

Follow the link to the yahoo story, same incident.

[The_Casual_Observer]

24. Looks as though the NYP picked up the story and provided

some embellishment. The marines didn't give their names because the NYP "reporter" was never there.

The snarky comment made by the marine was similar to the comment one usually gets from a "decline to state" voter while going door to door as a precinct worker for Kerry in a repub area.
:scared:

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

52. It was actually published in the Washington Post.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28114-2004Jul30.html

"Edwards happily approached a table of Marines, who didn't look like they wanted to be distracted from their combos. Kerry, who always gravitates toward men and women in uniform, came over and asked the men, "Where are you guys serving?"

Their answers were clipped. Later, the Marines -- none of whom would give his name -- said they were Bush supporters. "He imposed on us and I disagree with him coming over here shaking our hands," one said. "I'm 100 percent against" Kerry, he said. "We support our commander in chief 100 percent."

[DoktorGreg]

13. Its good to see that some troops still support the action.

It means Bush has not totally destroyed the military.

I would have asked the Marines a couple of questions though, since they seem to know, and no one else does.

First, what ARE we doing there?

Second, how does it make you feel as a Marine, that every where you go, you get shot up, and destroyed, while everywhere the Army and Airforce goes they kick ass?

[thebigidea]

23. Its easier to support when you haven't actually been sent there, I guess.

[Columbia]

28. What???

"Second, how does it make you feel as a Marine, that every where you go, you get shot up, and destroyed, while everywhere the Army and Airforce goes they kick ass?"

What the heck are you talking about?

[daleo]

16. I would like to hear his opinion in about a year

"I speak for all of us. We think that we are doing the right thing in Iraq," before saying he is to be deployed there in a few weeks and is "eager" to go and serve."

[BiggJawn]

25. Yeah, "Enough of this damn jerkin'-off!I wanna go KILL something!!!"

"Lemme ATTEM!!!"

"Shrink, I wanna KILL!!!"

"OK, we'll let you meet Shrub and ship you out next week..."

[kungfugrip]

26. That happened where my dad lived.

There's an Air Force and Marine base there and West Point is 20 minutes away. It's split down the middle, like everywhere else so Kerry had a fifty fifty chance of having this happen.

He should have known, the Marines technically signed a loyalty oath to Bush.

[struggle4progress]

30. More links:

... The restaurant in Newburgh, N.Y., erupted into applause as the Edwardses walked in, followed by Kerry and his wife ...
http://www.indystar.com/articles/4/166768-7304-010.html

... Although a group of Marines in the restaurant told reporters they were "100 percent" behind Bush, many of the bystanders watching the commotion said they were impressed with Kerry's convention speech. "I thought it was good," said retired prison guard Don Milligan, as he made his way into a Perkins restaurant with his wife, Frances. "I just hope he follows it up" ...
http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/109126634774570.xml

... Wallkill resident Earl Reagan III had come to the restaurant with his parents to celebrate his decision to volunteer for the National Guard. His father, Earl Reagan Jr., is a Desert Storm veteran and voted for President Bush. His mother, Debbie, said she has been a ''lifelong Republican'' and also voted for Bush. She spoke with Kerry. ''I told him, 'After last night's speech, I'm voting for you,' '' she said of Kerry's acceptance speech at the Democratic National Convention Thursday night. Earl Reagan Jr. said he was impressed with Kerry's talk of strong values and security, but his decision is still up in the air ...
http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/today/frontpage/stories/fr073104s1.shtml

[Proud2BAmurkin]

31. Talk to the ones who can't shake hands cuz their hands got blown off

Talk to the thousands of AWOL's casualties who came back missing arms and legs, not the idiot grandstanders.

[Columbia]

35. You mean like this guy?

http://enterprise.southofboston.com/articles/2004/07/15/news/news/news02.txt

Army reservist Peter Damon, the Brockton soldier who lost parts of both arms in the war in Iraq, was surprised to find out recently that he appears in the scathing anti-war film, "Fahrenheit 911," his wife said Wednesday.

A brief film clip of the hospitalized National Guardsman talking to an off-camera interviewer is shown in Michael Moore's documentary, which won the prestigious Palme d'Or prize at the Cannes Film Festival in May.

...

Jennifer Damon said she saw "Fahrenheit 911" on the Fourth of July, after learning her husband was shown in the film from John Gonsalves, founder of Homes For Our Troops, which is working to build the Damons a home.

Gonsalves said he learned of Peter's film appearance from a neighbor.

"I was shocked. I would have expected if Peter was in the movie that someone would have at least talked to him about it, which I thought was kind of unfair," Gonsalves said. "I think for Michael Moore to portray Peter in there without any knowledge is terrible."

[daleo]

54. It would be nice to hear Peter's opinion too.

"Peter Damon planned to see "Fahrenheit 9/11" today and declined comment until afterward."

He was only on camera for 20 or 30 seconds, and is not heard speaking. From the rest of the article, there seems to be some dispute about whether NBC or Micheal Moore should have gotten consent, or indeed if consent was necessary.

He sounds pretty sensible. Still, you never know how this tempest in a teapot could play out:

"I would assume he got consent from them. Obviously there's a lot of money at stake," Williams said.

[fortyfeetunder]

32. Immaturity strikes again

Just because someone wears a uniform doesn't mean they got instant maturity. The individual that blew off Kerry was one of those types.
Sad.

[Cocoa]

34. Edwards?

what was Edwards doing there? I thought Kerry chose Gephardt. :shrug:

[JI7]

53. HAHAHHAHAH

you said it.

[0007]

36. Anything from NY Post I'm leary of -

[symbolman]

37. I'd like to find out the names of these

Marines and have them court martialed -- send the names into their commanding officers and get them at least an ARTICLE 15 for TALKING about politics AT ALL while in uniform.

Seriously, they broke the law.

Anyone get any names or where they are stationed? Send the info to me, PM me if you will..

[avenueb]

39. garbage

heres the local media report

http://www.recordonline.com/

[Justice]

43. Excellent, Thanks

[RamboLiberal]

41. Symbolman - relax - even if it's against code

I think these guys have a right to their opinion. We don't want to act like the whack jobs in the admin and on the Freeper board who retaliate to every slight.

I was betting these Marines haven't served any time in Iraq.

I was at a Kerry rally in Greensburg PA today and there were a lot of people wearing veteran hats and pins and right in front of me was a guy in a Denim motorcycle vest with Marine Corp and club name displayed on the back cheering Kerry loudly.

Also a bunch of US Airlines pilots and Flight Attendants were right in front in uniform.

[nose pin]

46. I can see the headline now....

"Wesley Clark faces Article 15 for campaigning in uniform"

[nose pin]

45. What law is that?

Good luck with that.

[roguevalley]

42. babies. what a bunch of weinies. and, I don't presume to speak for

anyone, let along 'all of us'. Go. Serve. Then come back and see if you still feel the same way.

[DemoTex]

49. We had a term for it in the 'Nam ...

Young, dumb, and full of ... well you know. It rhymes. Young Marines and soldiers aren't trained for critical thinking. That sometimes comes later. Sometimes with greatness attached (Tim O'Brien comes to mind and his great Vietnam book "The Things They Carried"). There are Tim O'Briens and Tobias Wolfs and Philip Caputos out there now. In Iraq. Back from Iraq. Wait for the greatness. It comes. A new genre is upon us.

[Jim Sagle]

50. The NY Post probably made it up. They do that a lot.

[Merlin]

51. It's the NY Post. Maybe Kerry's VP, Gephardt, could straighten them out.

:bounce:

[Zhade]

55. "eager to go and serve" - this is one troop I certainly DON'T support.

I do feel bad for his family, though, considering he has a good chance (with that bullshit Rambo-esque machismo) of coming home in a box.

[HarveyBriggs]

56. This is why we are losing the war on terrorism!

Undisciplined soldiers. Here in the United States, in Abu Gharib, and on the battlefied

Now we see that the Marines don't even know who the enemy is. They seem to think it is John Kerry, a war hero. Never thought the Marines would go Jane Fonda on us.

They may be 100% against Kerry. I just wish they were more than .01% against terrorism.

I'd like to see these boys looking for Osama somewhere other than in a bag of Biggie Fries.

Obviously, these soldiers do not respect a soldier who has won many battlefield commendations. Like their leader, they disrespect this kind of sacrifice and experience.

Harvey Briggs

[Karenina]

59. Great rant, Harvey!

Welcome to DU! :toast:

[Swamp Rat]

58. This is crappy propaganda from a RW rag!

Even IF these two soldiers said this/feel this way, they are in the MINORITY. Those of us who have family in Iraq right now FUCKING KNOW BETTER!!! I wish that sergeant who claims to "speak for all of us" could be sent back to Iraq for the duration and send my cousin (on his SECOND tour) back home.

Since when is it OK to say "I'm 100 percent against" a Senator, but if you say that about a President it is NOT OK? Well, buddy, go back to Iraq and fight to the death for YOUR president's oil and send my bros back home!!! I shed NO tears for people like him when there are thousands of dead children to cry for.

By the way, FUCK the New York Post!

[AngryAmish]

60. Who do they think they are?

This man, John Kerry, the greatest person his generation of Americans decides that he wants to speak with some redneck Marines. And they virtually spit in his face? What assholes. Really, we do not this scum in our armed forces.

[AngryAmish]

62. And what about Ben Affleck?

There these guys are and a F'N movie star comes into their shitty little diner? Were they properly respectful? F no! What scum.

[Clyde39]

61. He really made the Marines proud......what a guy!

Is our country is polarized or what? One has to wonder how brainwashed the military is these days..........do they read any analysis whatsoever?