Limbless Woman Sues Air France Over 'Torso' Snub

[skippythwndrdog]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=583&e=3&u=/nm/20040816/od_nm/life_bias_dc

<snip> Price, who was born without limbs because her mother took the drug thalidomide during pregnancy, said in the suit she is able to manipulate a wheelchair and has traveled by air many times.

The suit states that she had bought a ticket in 2000 for travel between Manchester, England and New York. After Price had checked her luggage, she alleged that she was stopped by an Air France agent who told her that "a head, one bottom and a torso cannot possibly fly on its own." How much of Air France will this woman own when the dust settles? I hope it's a majority share.

It's hard to believe that these things can still happen, but they do.

[Trajan]

1. "Can Billy come out and play Baseball??" ...

"YOU know that Billy can't come out and play Baseball: He doesnt have any arms or legs .. " ..

"THAT'S ok: We just needed a home plate" ...

- Silly old joke my freind used to say, over and over again ...

[htuttle]

9. I went through a great degree of inner turmoil, resisting the urge....

...to post a joke with a punchline like 'Matt' or 'Bob' or 'Skip' (or 'Chuck', 'Russel' or 'Art').

And then you go ahead and post one of them anyway...

:spank:

[TahitiNut]

13. Please, don't forget Norm.

Norm is my favorite. :silly:

[htuttle]

14. And Phil, Doug, Bill

...and Harry.

[TahitiNut]

19. ... and Bernie.

(But Norm is still my favorite.) :evilgrin:

[burrowowl]

2. Go GIRL!

And get an unlimited travel ticket too!

[DrMath]

3. How annoying

Wow, dumb move for Air France. I'm not sure why they'd want to make unnecessary trouble for themselves.

If they were so 'concerned' they should have just helped her out if she needed it... geez...

[SheilaT]

4. Sigh.

What people don't understand is that the airline wants a passenger to be able to get the hell out of the aircraft in case of emergency (crash, whatever). Or to be accompanied by someone who can help out, such as a parent if the kid is real young, or someone else able-bodied enough to do the job.

The Air France agent was a tad insensitive if he/she actually made the alleged comment. As a former airline employee myself, while I certainly don't put it past an agent to say something like that, I'm equally willing to believe that the armless, legless woman wasn't actually said that. I wouldn't be surprised if the agent had been trying to explain the policy to her, and the communication got garbled.

Kind of like the mom travelling with a toddler, an infant, a stroller (maybe even two strollers), a diaper bag, regular carry-on, and expects the employees to help her cart all the stuff to the gate for her. Most of the time the employees will do their best, but guess what, mom? You're not the only passenger.

And I'm sure I'm going to get jumped all over by several dozen DUers eager to recite their horror stories of some incompetent, insensitive airline employee what terrible thing happened to them. But after ten years, I'm quite inured to any such stories.

Added on edit:
The other thing that's not at all mentioned in this story, is whether or not this armless, legless woman has travelled on her own in the past. How does she manage using the restrooms while on a long flight? How does she eat? If this is the first time she'd ever tried taking an airplane, she certainly wasn't thinking things through. And if she's flown before, how did she manage on her own?

[Fridays Child]

5. Two sides to every story.

Thanks for the insight. :)

[Scairp]

6. Good point

It certainly would be most difficult, if not impossible, for her to evacuate an airplane in an emergency. Even a traveling companion might not be able to get her out, and what if they were injured and couldn't even help themselves? Still, saying what she alleges they said to her was inexcusable. She's still a human being and her feelings are intact. Without question she should get some money for being spoken to in such a humiliating manner. And, Air France needs to institute some sensitivity training for their employees.

[DrMath]

7. But, but...

I'm asking this out of ignorance, not disagreement -- Are airlines responsible for people who aren't able to escape in an emergency?

[Pastiche423]

10. Huh?

"What people don't understand is that the airline wants a passenger to be able to get the hell out of the aircraft in case of emergency (crash, whatever). Or to be accompanied by someone who can help out, such as a parent if the kid is real young, or someone else able-bodied enough to do the job."

During my 17 years as a disabled person, I have flown many times; most of the time cross country, always alone.

If the airlines were so worried about me being able to get the hell out of the aircraft, why has my wheelchair always been placed in the belly of the plane? Even after begging many times to have it stored on the plane, I was told there was no room.

Sorry, but that's a crock.

[DemBones DemBones]

18. You are so right! eom

[KittyWampus]

40. In The Case Of An Emergency Your Wheelchair Would Endanger Everyone Else

and THAT is the point.

In an emergency Flight Attendants need to get everyone out ASAP and a solitary nonambulatory person would require help from said flight attendants who would already be quite busy helping out several hundred other people.

That's just the simple, unadorned truth.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[0007]

21. I'm more than sure this is a tabloid story and bent without

any thought of the points you brought out.

[gatlingforme]

31. I do not think it's the agent's job to second guess a passengers

ability to function on her own. (a paying passenger who is of age and maturity obviously) What is it of their concern whether she can go to the washroom, eat, etc... . The only reason why I say this is that your assertions are related to the flight attendants concern of whether or not h/she must work a little harder to accomplish a goal of customer satisfaction. Do you ask all the passengers if they have depends on because you don't want to get the washroom messed up??? NO, you only are asking these questions because you can physically see her limitations. That is the problem and she is absolutely right in getting a law suit started.

[gatlingforme]

32. also, to "sigh" just shows the insensitivity that one has towards

people with disabilities. I guess when one agent can't see limitations whether physical or mental, it's okay then? Please tell me if you take a census on who has bowel movement problems so you can put them by the bathroom (as it would be easier for the flight attendants to make sure all is okay) and would not have to worry ............YEAH.

[Kellanved]

43. excellent points

Also I find it strange that she sued in NY: the incident happened in Manchester, it is a French Airline and she is British living in Mansfield.

Also it should be noted, that this is not Price's first lawsuit - she had success with a suit against the British Government a few years ago.

[jtb33]

8. I'm thinking...

That there's more to this story, and once Air France reviews it a bit more (talks with people involved), it won't be as bad as it appears to be right now.

[SemperEadem]

11. she won't own any of it.. insurance will settle with her

[skippythwndrdog]

12. It's an expression. n/t

[SheilaT]

15. Okay, let me explain a little more.

No one expects a handicapped person to be able to get into the wheelchair and wheel down the aisle in an emergency evacuation. And yes, airline personnel are considered responsible for the safe evacuation of all passengers during an emergency. Lots of flight attendants have lost their lives getting others out of burning, crashed planes.

What I know best of all, from my ten years as an airline agent, is that over-sensitive passengers (most of whom are not handicapped in any way) often claim things have been said to them which simply weren't said. None of us were there, so we don't really know what the exchange was, but I have my doubts about the torso comment.

And, at the risk of being seen as extremely insensitive, there really is a huge problem with anyone travelling on a plane who's not fully physically able to move quickly in an emergency. Which, quite frankly, includes an awful lot of people. Someone who's quite obese, or someone travelling with even one young child. Anyone who's older and doesn't hear real well or move real fast. At some point, just maybe, there's a line of inability to care for oneself that maybe requires reconsidering flying alone.

Heck, I always ask for the emergency exit row because of the greater leg room (and I'm all of 5'2")and it dawned on me at my last birthday, when I turned 55, that the time is probably not all that many years away when they'll tell me I'm too old to sit there. Not a pleasant thought.

[DemBones DemBones]

17. Your insensitivity is amazing, and all too typical of

many airline employees, unfortunately.

[KittyWampus]

23. Insensitive? IMO, Poster Is Trying To Underline The Reality

of Airline Travel.

[skippythwndrdog]

24. You win the brass ring. n/t

[0007]

28. Don't tell de bones, I'am insensitive to this BS story also.

[gatlingforme]

33. I agree, it's the God complex.

[KamaAina]

20. Turns out Ms. Price has been down this road before

a few seconds with Yahoo! Search gets you:

http://www.daa.org.uk/e_tribune/e_2001_09.htm

UK GUILTY OF HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSE AGAINST DISABLED PRISONER
On 20 January 1995, Adele Price was a party to civil court proceedings in Lincoln, England, to recover money that Ms Price had previously been ordered to pay.

When she was asked questions about her financial situation, Ms Price declined to answer. The judge in the case immediately committed Ms Price to prison for seven days for 'contempt of court'.

Adele Price is a disabled woman; as a result of thalidomide, she has no arms or legs, she also has serious problems with her kidneys.

Although Ms Price spent just three days in custody, on 10 July 2001, the European Court of Human Rights found that the UK had breached her human rights-specifically Article 3 of the European Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms....

Plus, if the Air France incident occurred in 2000, why is it breaking news today? Did she wait four years to bring suit -- or has the case been bottled up for that long??

[nonbelief]

22. Much as it pains me to say it...

The world isn't made for armless, legless torsos. And no amount of whining will ever make it an armless, legless torso world.

Several years ago, in my home state in Australia, the government announced plans to open a national park up to huge private development, which included disabled- accessable hiking trails, and disabled- friendly hotels, rather than the rough, unpaved trails and crude campgrounds that were there at the time.

Fortunately, that government lost its election, and the new government scrapped the plans, realizing that just because nature is not wheelchair -friendly, does not mean humans should make it so.

[kayell]

25. My dear grandmother would have called you a piece of work. I'm trying

to cut down on the phrases I would like to use.

I'll have to settle for saying that such an attitude makes you sound like an insensitive boor.

[Pastiche423]

26. My dear great-gran'ma would have called it

a piece of shit.

[JohnLocke]

27. Response

[Bunny]

29. I could not have said it better.

Honestly, the absolute boorishness of some people.I suppose we should just put all disabled people BACK into institutions, so our precious little selves won't have to be exposed to them. I mean, they're not human, after all. Why should they be allowed to experience even a fraction of the joys of life that we experience? I mean, if she wanted arms and legs, she should have told her mother not to take thalidomide. It's her own fault, really....

:mad:

[KittyWampus]

38. Did That Poster Say Put Disabled Back Into Institutions?

Or that they're not human.
Or that they shouldn't experience even a fractionof the joys of life that we experience.
Or that having no limbs was her own fault.

Why are you exaggerating and using hyperbole?

IMO, a lot of people get overly emotional on subjects like disabled because of their own unresolved feelings and discomfort.

I know- having lived for eight years with someone who only had one leg.

Even HE had issues about his self image & capabililities. It was a big step to finally get him to go on a public beach and go into the water.

[Bunny]

41. Where did I say I had unresolved feelings and discomfort?

Fact is, I've worked with people with disabilities for 24 years. And I am SICK of the attitude that is frequently displayed about them and what they "ought" to be allowed to do. Sometimes hyperbole is the only way to get people to think about what they are saying.

[gatlingforme]

34. Why don't you Senator McClellan the same story. ( is that his name)?

[kayell]

36. Max Cleland nt

[gatlingforme]

42. Thank You. nt

[SheilaT]

30. Part of what I am trying to convey

is that we absolutely do not know the entire story. And, as a totally insensitive (former) airline employee I clearly am not sufficiently responsive to the particular needs of each and every individual passenger.

I have never had a job even a tenth as difficult as dealing with the travelling public. It's amazing how many people would walk up, and the first thing out of their mouth is an insult. After a few years of that, and of being treated like crap from management, it's frankly difficult to be a sympathetic as sometimes we ought to be. And yet, most of the time the employees are infinitely nicer to the passengers than vice versa.

You can always tell someone who works in a public contact job by the way that person treats some helpless employee somewhere.

[Cronus Protagonist]

37. I always try to crack a joke for them and I'm always friendly

I know what it's like to work interfacing with the public, and how amazingly asinine, self-righteous, judgemental and argumentative some people are, whether they have arms and legs or not.

SHOVE IT! - Drop Bush Not Bombs! - Hero Kerry AWOL Bush
http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13

[biftonnorton]

35. She Was Obviously Unarmed

So should have been allowed to fly.

[Nashyra]

39. I am a flight attendant and

our policy is that it is preferable that all non ambulatory passengers travel with a companion, we take non ambulatory passengers without companions. EVERY non ambulatory w/without companion gets the same briefing including our sightless passengers. In the event of an evacuation you will be the LAST TO BE EVACUATED. The reasoning is that we can not afford to block the aisle and/or exit. We are instructed in how to best assist them? We are required to go back and assist after the other passengers have exited. This is a very difficult briefing to give, it is not easy telling someone they have to be last in the event of an emergency. Inevitably the most often request is in help assisting them to floor level and how best to drag them to an exit without further injury. They are told ahead of time that this is the case and will be briefed. It comes down to how to evacuate any aircraft within 90 seconds, you have to have as many exits available as possible. You can not designate any exit a handicap exit because in a crash there might be only one usable exit. The world is not an equal opportunity place, but I have not once worked with anyone that enjoys that briefing or takes it lightly. Having to go back for a passenger puts your own life at risk. And we do not make room for wheelchairs for the most part because the closets by FAA standards have to have a "lip" on the closet to contain the chairs and they have taken most of the closet space out for more seats. Beleive me we would much rather you have your chair available right there so when we land we can get off the plane ASAP. We are supposed to wait for the ground agent before we leave the aircraft. I hope this puts an end to the speculation. By the way these are FAA mandated rules and have been implemented because in their studies or "tests" it is the most efficient.

[SheilaT]

44. Nashyra

has it right. It's the flight attendants who are most on the line, but other passengers can be at risk here.

The claims of insensitivity are themselves rather insensitive to the realities of life, especially life on board a crowded airplane with narrow aisles.

It looks a great deal different when you deal with this every single working day of your life, compared to taking a flight once of twice a year.