Vets, others call for resignation of prosecutor in Swift Boat ad (Ore)

[Nambe]

By JIM PARKER, kgw.com Staff

OREGON CITY -- A group of Oregon veterans and Clackamas County residents rallied outside the Clackamas County District Attorney's office Monday afternoon calling for the resignation of a prosecutor who appeared in a controversial television ad criticizing Sen. John Kerry's Vietnam War service.

Alfred French, 58, a senior deputy district attorney, appeared in the recent ad by the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth and said: "I served with John Kerry. . . . He is lying about his record." French also signed a legal affadavit attesting to the claim. But French, in an interview with The Oregonian newspaper last week, said he was relying on the accounts of three other veterans when he said Kerry lied. ..

That acknowledgement fueled Monday's protest, where demonstrators contended French is unfit to serve as a prosecutor after swearing to facts that he never personally witnessed. "It is outrageous that Al French and others would try to smear the military record of John Kerry, a man of courage who put his life on the line to save the lives of others," said Don Stewart, a local veteran who organized the protest. "To lie in a sworn affidavit goes beyond political smear, it is cause for this assistant district attorney to resign, and resign now." ..

[Hobarticus]

1. YEAH!!!! Go baby go!!!

This made my day!!!

[Born Free]

77. keep up the heat, smoke bush out of hiding

smoke bush out of hiding, show Americans what this coward is about. He is hiding behind many other liars rather than face America with the truth about his own military record - it's time bush stands up like a man and discusses what he did during the Vietnam War and compare it to John Kerry's record, let America decide which man has more character.

[DU9598]

2. Oregon Law

Do they have a recall? If so, time to get the petitions in order.

[LauraK]

3. C'mon Nambe, let's go after this guy.

I'll get the DA's contact info and mail it to you. Did Peter send this to you?

[Gothmog]

128. Good Job

How partisan is the DA's office in this jurisdiction. Here in Harris county, these e-mails would not have any effect in that the DA is an elected republican.

Keep up the pressure and the e-mails. They may have an effect.

I will send my own e-mail as a member on the bar about Mr. French later.

[volosong]

4. How About a Grand Jury

If the DA lied under oath, why don't they impanel a Grand Jury and indict him ?

After all, it is a felony?

[lolly]

5. Can you say "perjury," boys and girls?

Sure you can!

[Surf Cowboy]

103. It's not perjury. Not even close. Ask Bill.

[Name removed]

119. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MaryBear]

127. Hey! I don't think so.

More is going on here than may appear at first.

Is the guy in Oregon mistaken and should he not have appeared in an ad making untrue claims?

Yes.

Did he do legal wrong?

Debatable.

Is Surf Cowboy a freeper?

Debatable.

Should we use care when accusing others of freeping?

Yes.

Is Surf Cowboy an irritable attorney?

Maybe.

[Name removed]

133. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[northzax]

135. even your first point is debatable

and sure, there is most likely no legal offense here, but an ADA giving a false deposition certainly hurts his office, no? can he ever try someone again? it might be interesting to have a prosecutor who has admitted to lying under oath cross examining someone, don't you think? But I agree it is a matter for the Oregon Bar, first off, and his employers second off.

[cosmicone]

147. Amazing

How you think Clinton "lied under oath" when he did not.

You are an attorney and you should know that a defendant has to only answer a question presented to him truthfully and has no obligation to volunteer information.

Clinton was asked, "Was your testimony in the deposition truthful?" Her replied YES. This was tied to his answering "No" to a question about having sex with Monica Lewinsky. The "sex" was defined as "touching ..................... with an intent to arouse or gratify " --- how in the world can anyone prove what Clinton's intent was? Yes -- his answer was misleading but NO ONE can prove it was a lie because ONLY Clinton knows what his intent was.

Yes, Clinton was lying but he did NOT perjure himself. He misled the detractors who were dumber than him.

The DA on the other hand has executed an affidavit under oath which contains patently false statements.

[Qutzupalotl]

150. There is an offense.

Slander. And libel, now that there's a "book."

[chaumont58]

125. It isn't perjury, but it isn't the truth either

This guy is an officer of the court. He has an obligation to tell the truth, not just Kenneth Starr type truth either. He's going to pay for this transgression.

[merh]

Another One Bites the Dust!

and another one's gone, and another one's gone . . .

:bounce: :bounce:

[jdj]

123. dunt..dunt..dunt..

Another One Bites The Dust

Steve walks warily down the street,
with the brim pulled way down low
Ain't no sound but the sound of his feet,
machine guns ready to go

Are you ready,
Are you ready for this
Are you hanging on the edge of your seat
Out of the doorway the bullets rip
To the sound of the beat

Another one bites the dust
Another one bites the dust
And another one gone, and another one gone
Another one bites the dust
Hey, I'm gonna get you too
Another one bites the dust

How do you think I'm going to get along,
without you, when you're gone
You took me for everything that I had,
and kicked me out on my own

Are you happy, are you satisfied
How long can you stand the heat
Out of the doorway the bullets rip
To the sound of the beat

Chorus

Another one bites the dust
Another one bites the dust
Another one bites the dust
Another one bites the dust
There are plenty of ways you can hurt a man
And bring him to the ground
You can beat him
You can cheat him
you can treat him bad and leave him
When he's down
But I'm ready, yes I'm ready for you
I'm standing on my own two feet
Out of the doorway the bullets rip
repeating the sound of the beat

http://www.lyricstime.com/lyrics/31163.html

[JoFerret]

6. Keep up the pressure

...turn the story around so it is the BushCo who are on the defensive. Tell him to take his mealy-mouthed so called denunciation and shove it.

[MidwestTransplant]

7. I hope Oregon DUers were able to attend!

[FreakinDJ]

8. Glad to see the Smear Bot Vets getting a taste of the own

medicine.

Can't wait until Bush has to explain his military records..or lack of them

[Judi Lynn]

90. If you're the first one to use "Smear Bot Vets," CONGRATULATIONS!

It's delightfully, perfectly proper. You can be sure it will stick in the minds of a lot of us.

[krkaufman]

9. Can't wait for the 'Law & Order' episode....

... where the defendant is found "Not Guilty" due largely to the Deputy District Attorney's credibility having been undermined through a concurrent political scandal.

Seriously, though, I would think the guy could/should be disbarred for having lied in his testimony. Clinton was impeached for considerably less.

[swag]

10. Ha, that scumbag liar

His self-justification in the Oregonian was fucking ridiculous.

[Nambe]

11. E-MAIL Clackamas County District Attorney's Office

[e-mail]

DA

[LauraK]

19. DUers PLEASE HELP US! ....Be polite and short but E-mail...

the prosecutor. E-mails nation-wide will influence him. He stated "regaurdless of how I feel". Help us give him a push. This will help Kerry and get headlines.

[desi]

24. Done

Questioned how a Senior Deputy DA can attest to hearsay evidence legally (via affidavit.) Having trouble getting article from the website...

[volosong]

60. THE PUBLIC TRUST WILL SLIP THROUGH HIS HANDS LIKE WATER

Dear Sir,

Here in New England when someone commits perjury, we send him/her to jail.

As an elected official, you hold the public trust.

I'm certain that trust will slip through your hands like water if you don't remove and punish the offender in a public manner consistent with statute.

Voters tend to remember the damndest little details especially when elected officials show a blatant double standard.

[blondeatlast]

68. Done. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. nt

[redstateblues]

101. done-polite but firm

[TNOE]

21. DONE AND

:KICK: GREAT FIND.

[in_cog_ni_to]

25. done. n/t

[KDLarsen]

26. Done and this is what I wrote

Hello Sir

I'm aware that my views most likely aren't of your concern, however I feel that the actions of senior deputy district attorney Alfred French is damaging to the law pracis as a whole, not just confined to the US.

Is it not completely unthinkable for any lawyer, regardless of experiense, to call upon "He said, she said" as proof? Mr. French's participation in an ad for "Swiftboat Veterans for Truth", damaging a serious contender for the future presidency of the US, and subsequent acknowledgement that he didn't not have any proof of that statements (Quote: "I served with John Kerry. . . . He is lying about his record"), but had heard it from other sources, shows that mr. French hold serious contempt for his profession.

I trust that you are aware of mr. French's record and that you will take the appropriate action.

Yours
Kaspar Damm Larsen
Roskilde, Denmark

[Spiffarino]

31. Great letter. I'll send one, too.

BTW, my step-dad was from Randers.
:D

[shrub chipper]

42. my little note to the DA

How do you justify having an Assistant DA who signs an affidavit which is full of hearsay and innuendo?

Does he really not know the difference between personal knowledge and hearsay?

Does he (and , by extension, YOU) HAVE no shame?

Is he really calling into question the Miltary service of all the people who served in that war?

In Oregon, is it a crime to sign a false affidavit for money? If you don’t look into this matter, I am sure your next opponent will?

[tabasco]

45. Well done!

I had the great pleasure of visiting your city several years ago.
:hi:

[KDLarsen]

89. Thanks!

Hope you enjoyed your stay :)

[Reciprocity]

28. My e-mail to Clackamas County District Attorney's Office

Since he is a proven liar this is grounds for all of Alfred French cases be reopened. Who knows what else he has lied about.

[Tansy_Gold]

36. Done

polite, but firm.

Either French resigns, or his superiors demand his resignation.

Sheesh, what an asshole

[Spiffarino]

39. Done. Here it is:

Dear Mr. Foote,

As District Attorney of Clackamas County, it is your sworn duty to uphold the integrity of your office. This includes the actions of those who work under you.

Deputy District Attorney Alfred French claimed in a televised advertisement - and much worse, swore in a signed affadavit - that Sen. John Kerry lied about his actions during the War in Vietnam. Mr. French did this despite having not witnessed any of the alleged events. Instead, he has admitted to relying only on hearsay for evidence of Kerry's supposed lies. Any reasonable person should know - and a district attorney should know far better than anyone - that he should never swear out an affadavit to something he has not witnessed!

As District Attorney, I urge you to not let this stand. Nothing less than the integrity and honor of your office is at stake. I urge you to formally reprimand Alfred French for signing that affadavit.

Cordially, etc

[mondo joe]

56. My Email to the District Attorney

Dear Mr. Foote;

I was truly shocked to learn that Alfred French, a senior deputy district attorney for Clackamas County, in a legal affidavit accused Senator John Kerry of lying about his Viet Nam service, then later admitted his accusation was not based on his own experience but what he'd been told by other veterans.

I would expect a senior deputy district attorney to uphold a higher standard than to repeat hearsay. As a resident of Washington State I know and respect the character and civility of the people of Oregon. What a disappointment to find a representative of Clackamas County behaving in this way.

To swear in an affidavit to events that are only hearsay and rumor is inappropriate for anyone. But for a deputy district attorney to do so jeopardizes the integrity of the office.

[goclark]

43. Done!

[bearfan454]

53. Done.

[Bozvotros]

62. Done

Dear Mr. Foote:

I am writing to ask that you investigate Alfred French, a senior deputy district attorney, who signed a sworn affidavit that John Kerry was lying about his record in Vietnam. Mr. French has since admitted that he never served directly with John Kerry and was relying on statements of other veterans who also may have not been in position to make such allegations. Mr. French has a responsibility to the citizens of Oregon to tell the truth in an affidavit and now it appears he was only repeating claims made by others. The election of our nation’s President is a profoundly important event and for a public official charged with upholding the law, to try and influence the election by lying under oath is a very serious offense and worthy of your investigation for possible prosecution.

Sincerely,


Fort Wayne, IN

[David Zephyr]

69. Done!

Thanks!

[bling bling]

80. Done

Thanks for the link.

[True_Blue]

81. Happy to do it!

Thanks for the link!:hi:

[R Hickey]

95. Done.

I asked Foote if he thought Alfred French would be appointed to the Supreme Court or would he instead get an ambassatorship from our "selected president."

[DemoTex]

99. Thanks Nambe. Done.

:kick:

[democrat_patriot]

12. Kick.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

13. Resign ya SCUMBAG LIAR

!

[chelsea0011]

14. RIGHT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!! Finally, some people with balls

Meanwhile the TV media missed the story. "Amber Frey today took the stand". Blah.Blah.Blah.

[Catfight]

15. Kerry should ask Dole how much blood to the soldiers in Iraqi have to

bleed before their medals are credible under Dole and Bush's opinion?

[Sugarbleus]

16. A Deputy DA involved in lies and false advertising?? WOW

Damn straight the slimeball should resign!! How can we have people like that passing judgement on others.......NO WAY.

Go Oregon!

[Tight_rope]

38. "A Deputy DA"?...Can't say he didn't "KNOW" or "UNDERSTAND" the law

[Cronus Protagonist]

17. He demeans the entire institution with his presence and should quit

How can anyone trust the man while he holds the position he does? How can anyone believe that they were not also similarly set up in their own trials by this crooked man?

He needs to go.

Swiftboat Veterans for Bush

SHOVE IT! - Drop Bush Not Bombs! - Hero Kerry AWOL Bush
http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13

[Career Prole]

23. Gotta be rough to be a liberal seeking a fair trial there. n/t

[Cronus Protagonist]

44. No doubt.

With a known and confessed liar as a prosecutor, how could one get a fair election at all?

http://abortionissues.com
http://antigaymarriage.com
http://bush.is.hated.com
http://bushblows.com
http://bushsux.com
http://chelsea-clinton.com
http://cheney.is.hated.com
http://dem2004.org
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http://georgebush04.com
http://georgebushjokes.com
http://gop.is.hated.com
http://humanrightsviolations.com
http://impeachgeorgebush.com
http://laura-bush.com
http://mccainforpresident.com
http://politicalinterestgroups.com
http://presidentialscandals.com
http://priminister.com
http://radicalcheerleaders.com
http://religiousright.org
http://republicanchat.com
http://republicans.are.hated.com
http://repulican.com
http://rumsfeld.is.hated.com
http://swingvoter.com
http://vote4bush.com
http://voteforbush.com
http://w.hated.com
http://w.is.hated.com
http://w.is.mullahbush.com
http://www.hated.com

[Hamlette]

18. Fastest way to get rid of him is to have the Bar take his license

for making a false statement in an affidavit. I've not seen the affidavit so I'm not sure how good the claim is but someone is Oregon definately ought to make a complaint to the Bar. Anyone can do it.

Take his license, he loses his job.

(edited for spelling)

[Surf Cowboy]

104. Finally, somebody knows what they're talking about.

Chances are, they won't dis-bar him, but you can bet they'll suspend his ass for a month or two. Writing his boss is one thing, but if he's a repuke, it won't matter. The bar association in OR is a highly regarded one, and I think they'll take this damn seriously.

[jdj]

126. If you understand it, I wish you'd explain the

reason you are not calling it perjury.

Randi Rhodes explained it once on her show, the same reason they can't say Clinton perjured himself, and it has to do with the root of the word "per JURY" or something, and I can't rehash it.

[jdj]

129. um, nevermind.

I see you already did.

[TahitiNut]

131. While IANAL, it's my understanding that perjury ...

... is knowingly misleading/false testimony to a court of law on an issue that's material to the case. Thus, the elements are (1) knowledge, (2) litigation, (3) and materiality.

The operational definition of "material" I've worked with is whether, knowing otherwise, a reasonable person would make another decision. For example, a financial discrepancy in a company's books is material if the amount is large enough to make a difference in whether one would buy or sell stock. Thus, trivial differences or differences not relevant to a decision aren't 'material.'

In this case, there's no court case or formal decision-making (due) process involved. Thus, I wouldn't call it perjury either.

[Gregorian]

20. Can you just imagine how impartial this guy is as a prosecutor?!

I love you guys! Go DU go!

I still have a mountain of uneaten popcorn just waiting. Waiting for the day this all really starts sliding into the sewer.

I don't have half the brains you people have. I'm just here to cheer you on. Yay!

[NashVegas]

22. You Don't Have to Be Right to Be a Litigator

You just have to able to convince 12 people you are.

[VolcanoJen]

27. Go, Oregonians!!!!!

Is there such a thing as state-by-state jealousy?

Either way, I'm jealous of Oregonians. :-)

[geek tragedy]

29. "Personal knowledge"

I don't know Oregon's exact requirements, but if he swore that he had personal knowledge that Kerry was lying, he committed perjury.

[karlrschneider]

30. He swore under oath to HEARSAY? Holy shit, this guy isn't qualified to be

a goddamn BAILIFF!
:grr:

[geek tragedy]

32. Here is his affidavit:

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/index.ssf?/base/news/1093089949215830.xml

<snip>
"My name is Alfred J. French III. I am over the age of 21 years, and I am fully competent and able to make this affidavit. I am able to swear, as I do hereby swear, that all facts and statements contained in this affidavit are true and correct and within my personal knowledge or belief.

"I served in Coastal Division 11 with John Kerry during his brief stay in Vietnam. My picture may be found (against my wishes) on John F. Kerry's ("Kerry") website, www.johnkerry.com, under his Lifetime commercial, where John Kerry includes my picture along with 18 other Patrol Craft Fast ("PCF") (also known as Swift boats) commanders in An Thoi along with him during his service there. I am a retired Captain in the United States Navy Reserve and was an Ensign when serving with Kerry.

"Kerry has wildly exaggerated and lied about his record in Vietnam. By way of example, on two occasions Kerry obtain Purple Hearts under false pretenses from negligently self-inflicted grenade wounds in the absence of hostile fire. His first Purple Heart is the subject of widespread coverage. Thus, for example, his third Purple Heart of March 13, 1969 is attributed in his report of that day to a "hip wound" from an enemy mine while he himself admits on page 313 of Tour of Duty (by Douglas Brinkley; New York: Harper Collins, 2004) that he was wounded supposedly by a grenade placed in a rice bin by friendly troops. Kerry's commercials, for example, portraying him as a soldier with bandolier going through the jungle totally mischaracterizes his actual role in Vietnam.

"Most important to me, Kerry has lied about our record in Vietnam, claiming on a 1971 Meet The Press show that our unit was engaged in "atrocities." This is not true. On the Dick Cavett Show on 1971 (cf. Kranish at 92), he claimed that crews at An Thoi were involved in a mutiny. This was likewise a lie. There are many other lies that Kerry has told about his record and our mutual record in Vietnam.

"Further affiant saith not.

"Alfred J. French III"

<snip>

Perjuror. Criminal. Asshole.

[Hamlette]

35. This affidavit is pretty damning. He could be disbarred.

He says its based on personal knowledge then he says its based on hearsay.

Someone really should call the Oregon State Bar and lodge a complaint.

[trapper914]

96. I dunno

It reads "personal knowledge OR belief." He may have no personal knowledge, but if he truly believes the BS he's shoveling...

As scummy as it sounds, it's the republican way. Sorta like the whole yellowcake thing. Remember how they fell back on the "according to British intel" stuff? These guys are all about parsing words so they can lie and yet still protect themselves.

[Virginian]

112. All of his convictions could now be appealed.

I can imagine that any conviction of anyone is now open for appeal. If he would lie about something 30 years ago, what is he doing now in his professional life? Telling the truth? Maybe not.

[gratuitous]

40. Looks like a violation to me

Oregon lawyers are subject to the Code of Professional Responsibility. The disciplinary rules are written to address lawyer misconduct in a number of ways. DR 1-102(A)(3) says that it is professional misconduct for a lawyer to:

(3) Engage in conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, deceit or misrepresentation.

Feel free to cite the rule in any communiqué you have with the Clackamas County DA's office.

[tblue37]

59. Maybe that is what

Col. Elliot meant when he said he was the one in trouble for signing that affidavit.

[alarcojon]

52. Looks like a "form letter" affidavit to me

Where can we get the other ones?

[MaryBear]

78. "within my personal knowledge or belief. "

"Belief" covers hearsay. He did not perjure himself. Unfortunately.

[daleo]

83. I noticed that too, but is that escape clause really valid?

If that is the case, any "affidavit" like this could make any claim at all and it could be covered by the "belief" element of the statement. It basically renders any such document irrelevant, and I would hazard to say, strips it of any legal standing.

It would be interesting to hear from one of the DU lawyers on this point.

[MaryBear]

118. To my mind,

it makes the statement less credible. I'm not a lawyer, so this is just my belief.

I, too, would be interested in a legal opinion.

However, the inclusion of the term "or" leads me to think that he has covered himself, in the sense of what "it" means.

[Hepburn]

132. Use of introductory Language

I am a California lawyer so this is based only on my opinion and knowlede of California law. However, in all the years I have practiced, I have found that in general, that the law found in states in the West are very consistent with California law. So with this in mind, here is my opinion:

In any affidavit declaration which is done, any specific averment which is not done on personal knowledge should be prefaced by the following: "Based upon a good faith belief, the undersigned declares...." or similar language. If this is not done to any specific averment about which the maker of the affidavit does not have personal knowledge, then the affidavit is false and misleading. I also would state that any affidavit/declaration which is based solely and in toto on only third party knowledge, is useless. Any lawyer knows this. Any such testimony would not be admissible in court - barred by hearsay. From the articles, it would appear that Mr. French is not some newbie ADA, but that he is the First Assistant to DA Foote. Based on his knowledge and experience, I would opine that French clearly violated the rules of Professional Conduct and, further, that as his supervisor, Foote has a duty to report him. As to perjury, that would not lie under the facts and circumstances which I know at this time. IMO since a perjury would be a criminal action, and the level of proof is beyond a reasonable doubt, I do not think a perjury conviction would result if French were charged. I would opine that he could "wiggle" out of this because of the introductory clause of his affidavit. However, in a state bar proceeding, again my opinion only, I do feel that French would be disciplined for his conduct. I base the latter opinion on the fact that nowhere in the affidavit did French reveal that he was testifying based solely on third party statements and that he had no personal knowledge of any nature whatsoever.

[daleo]

136. Interesting reply

Thanks for the professional opinion. It sounds like this guy is just grandstanding with the affidavit, but skirting the line of professional conduct.

[Hepburn]

148. Rules of Professional Conduct

IMO: I do think he violated a rule of professional conduct. His statement, at least to me, is misleading because he fails to state that his declaration is not based on personal knowledge, but is based on the statements of third parties. I would imagine that if he gave an affidavit to the Swifties which stated that this was merely his conclusion based on what others have said that they would not have been the least bit interested in him. IMO: He failed to disclose the truth about the basis of his statements and that to me is misleading.

[Surf Cowboy]

105. Bullshit. "Belief" does not cover hearsay, unless that belief is

reasonable. It is not reasonable (for an ATTORNEY, mind you, held to a far higher standard in this sense than others) for an attorney to sign a first-person affidavit based on hearsay. It's still not perjury, however, it's merely dishonest and fraudulent--that's why it's not a crime, yet he could get disbarred.

[MaryBear]

120. No Shit, Surf Cowboy!

We disagree on whether he has covered himself. We do seem to concur on the nature of his character.

[Surf Cowboy]

134. I'm not disagreeing as to whether he's covered.

There's only one way to find out---litigation.

Who knows? The reasonableness of his beliefs and actions will have to be determined by either a judge or jury. I don't think it was reasonable, but then again, I'm in the profession and schooled in such things. An ordinary juror might not see it that way.

It's a crap shoot--you buy the ticket, you take the ride.

[David Zephyr]

33. Kick!

Great story!

[Tight_rope]

34. Out with the "BAD".....Time for some good!....n/t

[PopSixSquish]

37. Oregon DU'ers - Call the State Bar Association and Lodge a Complaint

see the post a few above for this gentleman's affidavit.

What an asshole!

[madmax]

41. Done

:kick:

[Democat]

46. Here is the phone number, from the website

District Attorney
807 Main Street
Oregon City OR 97045

503.655.8431

http://www.co.clackamas.or.us/depts.asp

[hughee99]

47. It's not a lie if he can prove it...

So why doesn't he just show us the proof?

[Democat]

49. He already basically admitted that he was lying in the affidavit

He doesn't know anything about Kerry other than what people being paid by the Bush campaign told him.

He should have to sign another affidavit swearing that he either was or was not paid for his lying under oath.

This man is a criminal and not fit for his job.

[Rebellious Republican]

48. Thanks for the link Nambe, this is what I fired off in my email....

Dear Sir or Madam,
I am a Decorated Navy Veteran, 1978-1988 active duty. It occurs to me it has become popular sport to smear veterans that have distinguished themselves in times of valor.Who have also chosen to continue to serve our country as elected representatives of 'We the People". These tactics serve no one honorably, they only call into question the validity of the military awards system. It questions any vet who has ever earned an award, it makes people skeptical and places doubt in their minds. So when someone like me displays them, they have a subconscious reaction to ask me if they mean anything!

This tactic was used against the Honorable John McCain, a hero's hero, when he ran in the 2000 primaries. Stories surfaced about his loyalty while in Hanoi as a POW, that was an all time low in politics. Did anyone bother to talk about his history on board the USS Forestal, how he survived the biggest disaster on aboard an aircraft carrier in Naval History. He was then given the option to go home, but he chose to stay and serve. It was after that when he "intercepted a surface to air missile with his plane" and after surviving that was captured. As far as his time in Hanoi, very few people actually know what it is like in a Vietnamese POW camp and try to survive. No matter what happened in Hanoi, one thing is for sure, at least he chose to be there!

Now we see the trashing of John Kerry's honorable service in Vietnam, again, one thing is for sure, he was in Vietnam, and there by choice!

You can add Senator Max Cleland to that smear list, guess what, at least he was there. He was not flying the friendly sky's of Texas or hiding behind some deferment, if he had been, then he would probably still have all of his limbs!

I see a reoccurring theme in all of this, maybe the US Congress needs to review their awards criteria, certainly decorations must be handed out like candy. I will keep that in mind when I look at my Naval Expeditionary Forces medal (Beirut "83") or my National Defense medal, Sea Service deployment ribbon, Naval Enlisted Aircrewman Wings or any of the other four worthless pieces junk that they gave me.

Alfred French should be ashamed for allowing himself to be used in this disgusting tactic. This no way for a public official to act and should be asked to tender his resignation. Not simply because he opined that Kerry does not deserve these awards, but mainly because he lied about his knowledge. He either lied to the Newspaper while making a public statement or he lied in the LEGAL affidavit that he signed. This calls into question his reliability and moral character when making life altering decisions in his position as Asst. DA.

I am one Vet who stands behind all Vets that have received military awards, regardless of political party affiliations, that includes George Herbert Walker Bush for honorable service in WWII. This type of slander needs to stop, regardless of who is being attacked, if it takes people losing their jobs to get someone's attention, then so be it.

[Nambe]

54. Thank You RR!!!! You are a hero too!

I will pass your letter on to Peter Defazio and my guess is he will make sure it is read.

If this gets legs in Oregon it will only harden the hardened republicans, but it will help end the war record mess in the minds of the swing voters so we can get on with the issues that matter to our future and most importantly, get the 'radical' elements out of our government.

[Rebellious Republican]

153. Hey Nambe, by all means pass it on! Thanks. N/T

[loudsue]

64. That's one helluva letter, RebelliousRepublican!!! Good one!

:yourock: That letter covered all the bases that have been REALLY pissing me off about this whole bush mafia campaign profile. They are, indeed, trashing ALL decorated war heros....the problem is, since none of them ever served, they don't have any honest respect for the people who DO serve!!!

Bush is NOT FIT TO BE COMMANDER IN CHIEF!!! <I know...I'm preaching to the choir...>

Your letter was beautifully written! That should be read aloud on the news programs..... send it to tweety!!! And to Carville!!


:kick::kick::kick:

[Spiffarino]

84. Wow. I'm going to run out of space...

...for my Hero Wall of Fame.

Here's to you, noble Vet :toast:

[Rebellious Republican]

154. Blush, Blush, Aw shucks guys, thanks, what does an ol' hillbilliy know.

[skip fox]

50. Please send me links to all SBV stories. I'm compiling

a SBV-Gate file with the help of DUers as a reference for us all.

Send post with links (or ideas, tips, etc.) as replies to the early form of the file in DU Editorials:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x69031

[skooooo]

51. Far out! This is what we need to start doing!

Raise a ruckus people!

[acmavm]

55. Mine.

Dear Mr. Foote:

Not to be disrespectful, but don't you think it would serve the people in your jurisdiction better if your Senior Assistant District Attorney were not a known perjurer?

Just asking.

XXXXXXXX XXXXXXX

[Surf Cowboy]

106. It's not perjury, Goddammit!!

Perjury is knowingly telling a falsehood with regard to A MATERIAL ELEMENT OF A CRIME, usually before a tribunal. First there must be a crime--NONE here. Second, there must be a tribunal--NONE here. Clinton's hummer fib was closer to perjury, and even it wasn't close. Perjury is a damned serious crime, and it shouldn't be thrown around like it happens all the time. The D.A. probably thinks those who are writing about perjury don't know enough to have a valid opinion. Call him what he is--A LIAR. Leave the legal terms to the lawyers.

[FlaGranny]

113. Give him a break, please.

Most people think perjury is just lying under oath. People who are not attorneys cannot be expected to be fluent in legalese. I'm sure most people in the legal profession know that. Few people can be expert in the technical terminology of the professions of others.

[Surf Cowboy]

138. What, people who aren't attorneys can't keep themselves

within the bounds of their own vocabulary? They can't just as easily say "fraud," "liar," or any other of the various synonyms of which they do know the definitions?

Bullshit. When we use words we don't really know the meaning of, we kill what would otherwise be a strong argument and turn it into some sort of rant by someone who thinks they know more than they do (this may not actually be the case, but to disinterested parties (i.e. Independent Voters), this is EXACTLY what it looks like).

[GliderGuider]

144. People who aren't attorneys use language as they understand it

There were a number of authoritative-looking glossary links posted earlier in this thread that indicated that "lying under oath" was an accepted definition of perjury, and that signing an affidavit was making a statement under oath. I think you're being too hard on people. Everything I've seen here indicates to me that participants in this thread used the language in good faith, based on a reasonable understanding of the definitions for a layman.

I understand your frustration with what you see as misuse of terminology - as a pilot and a programmer I've seen my fair share too. It's one of the headaches that comes with having to live in a world with ordinary people.

[Surf Cowboy]

174. True enough in normal life

but in this case, we're trying to sell ideas. Ideas for change, which are hard enough to sell in the first place, especially with such a cynical and suspicious voting public.

Every time someone gets caught exaggerating or talking beyond their knowledge, it hurts. Kerry's statements post-nam are now under scrutiny, because he himself admitted he may have gone too far.

Not good. This is the type of thing that Repug campaign aides feed on.

[MaryBear]

122. Why not

quitcherswerrin? Not needed with such well written posts.

Besides, maybe this guy in Oregon just believes liars who believe their lies.

[acmavm]

163. Please see No. 162

And are you a lawyer by any chance?????

[rawstory]

57. Thanks... Tops RAW STORY front page.

If only the mainstream media would treat stories like we do, what a world this would be! ;)

The liberal alternative to Drudge, and just as fast, with more stories (and less fiction): http://rawstory.com

[Nambe]

61. I bookmarked you the other day. Well done!

It is an excelent site! IMO only elite sources make my bookmark list. I like your choices and presentation. I've wanted to do what you're doing but will never have the time.

[thecrow]

58. And mine

Dear District Attorney Foote,
Sir, I am writing to urge you to fire Senior Deputy District AttorneyAlfred French on the basis that he signed a sworn affadavit in which he lied about his "recollection" of Democratic Presidential Candidate John Kerry's war record.
( His quote from a "Swift Boat Veteran's " ad:
"I served with John Kerry .... he is LYING about his record.")

Alfred French's "recollection" was based on heresay "evidence" that he obtained from the accounts of three other veterans. Heresay would not be allowed in your courts, would it?

I do not feel it is in the best interests of your office that this man remain in your employ. HE IS UNFIT FOR SERVICE as a prosecutor; he is SWEARING TO facts that he didn't PERSONALLY WITNESS.
How could you retain Alfred French as your Senoir Deputy District Attorney to administer justice after he has done such an egregious act? This is unpardonable!
How can we have justice if men who are supposedly in positions of power are allowed to lie under oath and nothing is done about it? Alfred French should be disbarred.

I am also calling for all of Senoir Deputy District Attorney Alfred French cases be reopened. I fear what else he has lied about.

As a citizen of this fair and democratic country, I urge you to fire him forthwith.

Cordially,
XXXX

[thecrow]

170. I GOT A REPLY! And it's a doozy!!!

Here it is:

Thank you for taking the time to contact our office with your comments/concerns about Mr. French. I want to begin by saying that, while I do not personally share the opinions expressed by our prosecutor, all of our employees have the right to their own opinions on these subjects and to express those opinions in their own time. I believe that this is what happened here. Sometimes good people just honestly disagree. It is particularly difficult when it is on subjects that are so important to our nation and our community. Thanks again for contacting the Clackamas County District Attorney's Office.



John S. Foote

Clackamas County District Attorney

******************
:wtf:
I wrote back that I am not concerned about Alfred French ExPRESSING HIS OPINION, but I am shocked that he would LIE UNDER OATH!

[stevedeshazer]

63. This story is blowing up

My wife knows Mr. Foote.

All I can say is, the response to the Clackamas County DA's office has been overwhelming.

That's all I'm saying for now.

[Guaranteed]

85. Isn't it crazy?

It's weird how there are some people here on DU that don't even seem to get how we're absolutely kicking the SHIT out of these guys right now. It's great. I'm loving it.

[IdaBriggs]

65. Kick.

[MissB]

66. Here is a story from a local news website (ABC affiliate)

(See the last paragraph that I posted below!)

http://www.katu.com/news/story.asp?ID=70418

Local Veterans Call For Attorney's Resignation

OREGON CITY, Ore. - Clackamas County veterans are calling for the resignation of an assistant district attorney who appeared in television ads attacking Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry's military record.

*snip*

On Monday, French would neither confirm nor deny the reports that he did not witness the events mentioned in the affidavit.

The Oregon State Bar says they have received enough complaints to look into the matter, with the main question being whether French violated ethics.

[Nambe]

67. Thanks MissB!!! The Or State Bar is the key.

Backing bush in a lie is one of only a few things that would make me want to change somebodies career for them.

[David Zephyr]

71. Right. So How Do We Begin Weighing in With the Oregon Bar?

Let's do it.

[Surf Cowboy]

107. No need to.

They are a very honorable organization. They will take this seriously, and they will mete out a fair, yet severe punishment. This kind of thing gives attorneys a black eye (as if we needed another), so you can expect the OR Bar to bust his ass.

[Hepburn]

146. Contact Information - Oregon State Bar

Address:
5200 SW Meadows Road (Directions)
Lake Oswego, Oregon 97035-0889
Phone:
[phone] or Inside Oregon: 1 [phone]
Facsimile:
[phone]
E-mail:
General OSB Inquiries: [e-mail]
Website Content/Problem Inquiries: [e-mail]
Member/Casemaker Login Inquiries: [e-mail]

The Staff Directory lists e-mail and phone information for OSB staff.

http://www.osbar.org/contact.html

[David Zephyr]

149. Thanks.

I'm writing them regardless. Hopefully, others will.

[farmbo]

70. Wait a minute...Clinton lost his law license for "lying" about Lewinsky

This guy had better be called on the carpet by the local bar association's disciplinary committee, and soon!

[Swamp Rat]

72. BRING IT ON BEEEAAATCH!!!

That's right. Time to hold these thugs responsible for what they do and say!!!

These vets have done well today!

[Dhalgren]

76. Once again these veterans serve their country well!

"Let's get those Bush bastards" - The Magistrate

[kori]

73. Lying in a sworn affidavit

Is a crime same as perjury. He should not only resign, be fired, he should lose his law license. If he did in deed swear to statements that he was not a witness too, then he should be out of office. In fact, after that, any criminal that he was the prosecutor on, that was convicted, could have his case heard on appeal. He is a member of the court and as such should be held to the letter of the law without exception.

[Surf Cowboy]

108. It's not the same as perjury. Well, maybe to the extent that

pinching someone's butt is the same as rape, but not much else. Perjury means more than lying. See my earlier post above, and stop calling it perjury, dammit.

[PDX Bara]

74. Another one done...

I was told by a friend who knows of Mr. French's work as a prosecutor that he has had a very good record on a number of issues. Here's a copy of the e-mail I sent:

Dear Mr. Foote,

For a person in Mr. French's capacity to appear in an ad supporting such a controversial issue is at the very least conduct unbecoming, especially if he was paid. It appears that he has insulted those many fine prosecutors who do not so publicly indulge in such partisan political activities.

[Oreegone]

75. I sent my own letter (here it is) thanks for the code notation

Dear Sir or Madam,

I am calling for the termination of Albert French a senior deputy district attorney. If we can not trust our public prosecutors to tell the truth who can we trust? I can not believe that this man did not read a document he swore to be the truth given his profession.

He has now admitted perjury and therefore is subject to action under the Code of Professional Responsibility. The disciplinary rules are written to address lawyer misconduct in a number of ways. DR 1-102(A) (3) says that it is professional misconduct for a lawyer to: (3) Engage in conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, deceit or misrepresentation.

I hope you will exercise the integrity necessary to keep our state legal system above board and beyond reproach as it should be.


Thank you for your time and consideration,

[Surf Cowboy]

109. He didn't admit perjury!! What the hell is wrong with you people

You're worse than Karl Rove, for Christ's sake. It's not freakin' perjury!!!

[GliderGuider]

114. Uh, maybe we're not lawyers?

To most people who haven't been trained in the finer points of the law, "perjury" is a fairly vague yet potent concept meaning something like "lying under oath". Thanks to your tireless efforts we now understand it's a bit more complicated than that. Unfortunately, most professions have specific language that is only understood in the broadest of terms by the lay public.

The reason people used that word is that it is the strongest legal-sounding condemnation of his lies that we could come up with. I'm sure the Oregon DA to whom all our misworded communications were addressed will forgive us the terminological inexactitude, and will see see through to the underlying message of a thousand emails all saying "Hang the lying bastard!" in one way or another.

[Surf Cowboy]

116. Actually, as I said before,

The D.A. will probably dismiss the complaints of those who overstate the issue, like most lawyers do. He will know (1) that the letter-writer knows little about the law, and (2) that the person is likely politically motivated on behalf of Kerry, not motivated by public interest. He will see the letters as being little different from the ads being run by the Smear Boat Vets--not reliable and overstating things for political benefit.

Better to simply question the honesty of a man who has taken numerous oaths, is a public servant, an officer of the court, and one of the county's highest-ranked law-enforcement officials. The best tack is to address the Oregon Bar, because I'll guarantee you that they are fairly ashamed at this kind of behavior. We don't need to do another thing. This has already been set in motion. I can tell you that an attorney's greatest fear is the State Bar, and dumbass is about ready to find out why.

[Oreegone]

121. Yes he did indeed commit perjury

He took an oath it was written in this case that he was telling the truth about what happened, he lied. Prove to me he didn't read the oath and understand it, he is an attorney. He lied, lied, lied.....on a written oath. He later admitted it was untrue....that is a lie, lie, lie...


criminal offense of making false statements under oath
www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn

The criminal offense of making a false statement under oath.
www.nacmnet.org/Glossary.html

The wilful utterance of a false statement under oath or affirmation, before a competent tribunal, upon a point material to a legal inquiry.
www.icac.nsw.gov.au/sitehelp/index_sitehelp.cfm

Telling a lie under oath.
www.nwjustice.org/glossary/

Giving false evidence or information while under oath.
www.federated.ca/gloss/p.htm

Taking a false oath, lying under oath, a violation of the honor due to God.
www.osvpublishing.com/catholicalmanac/04c.asp

Lying while under oath.
www.montgomerycountymd.gov/mc/judicial/circuit/glossary/glossary.html

A person knowingly makes a false statement while under oath.
www.ourlawsite.com/gloss1.htm

Making a false statement under oath or affirmation. Perjury is a felony punishable by a fine and/or prison term.
www.myflorida.com/myflorida/government/governorinitiatives/notary/glossary.html

The crime of lying under oath. It includes lying during the trial, at a deposition or in a written affidavit. It can be punishable by imprisonment.
www.davidwaldrop.net/legal_definitions.htm

In criminal law, the willful assertion as to a matter of fact, opinion, belief, or knowledge, made by a witness in a judicial proceeding as part of his evidence, either upon or in any form allowed by law to be substituted for an oath, or in a affidavit, or otherwise, such assertion being material to the issue or point of inquiry and known to such witness to be false.
www.co.shelby.tn.us/county_gov/court_clerks/criminal_court/glossary.html

criminal offense of making false statements under oath.
www.alacourt.org/Publications/Glossary/p.htm

The act of lying under oath.
www.divorcechoice.com/glossary_full.asp

— The deliberate, willful giving of false, misleading, or incomplete testimony under oath.
www.nhelton.com/glossary.htm

The offense of willfully making a false statement when one is under oath to tell the truth.
www.choate.edu/sports/dept/ng/courses/documents/legalterms.html

1. The criminal offense of making false statements under oath. In common law, only a willful and corrupt sworn statement made without sincere belief in it truth, and made in a judicial proceeding regarding a material matter, was perjury. Today, statutes have broadened the offense so that in some jurisdictions any false swearing in a legal instrument or legal setting is perjury.
www.data-quik.com/definitions/p.htm

The common law crime committed by a witness deliberately failing to tell the truth or lying in court.
hjem.get2net.dk/safsaf/glossary.html

­ The act of testifying falsely under oath. An intentional lie as to a matter of fact, belief, opinion, or knowledge, given while under oath or in a sworn affidavit. The legal offense of deliberately testifying falsely under oath about a material fact.
ilawyer.com/lawFAQ/glossary.html

The giving of false evidence in any judicial proceedings •Government`s Rights
elo.legalaid.qld.gov.au/asp/glossary/glossary.asp

The criminal act of making a deliberately false statement while under oath. The false statement must be material to the issue at hand.
www.contractcentral.com/dictionary/p.htm

Giving false evidence or information while under oath. Personal Auto Policy Insurance policy issued to individuals covering risks arising out of the ownership or operation of a licensed automobile. Personal Effects Floater A policy covering personal effects usually carried by tourists. Can be all risk or specified peril form. Covers worldwide but excludes coverage at the insured's residence. Personal Injury Liability Injury other than bodily injury arising out of defined causes which usually include false arrest or detention, malicious prosecution, wrongful entry or eviction, libel or slander or violation of a person's right to privacy other than in the course of advertising, broadcasting, television, publishing.
l-and-y.com/glossary_nz.htm

The crime of lying under oath. It includes lying during a trial, at a deposition, or in a written affidavit. It can be punishable by imprisonment.
www.mgrlaw.com/familylaw/FamilyLawDefinitions.html

Giving false evidence or information while under oath. top
https://www.lapineins.com/glossary.html

[Surf Cowboy]

139. Sorry, Charlie...

Nice try, but Perjury is (and to the best of my knowledge and belief) always has been the following:

"Every person who, having taken an oath that he or she will testify...truly before any competent tribunal..., willfully...states as true any material matter which he or she knows to be false...is guilty of perjury."

First, there's no tribunal (court).

Second, there's no crime or civil action engaged at said (nonexistent) tribunal.

Third, there can be no material element of an offense if there is no offense and there is no tribunal.

Stop speaking outside your vocabulary. Call him a liar, call him a fraud, call him whatever you want--just don't call him a perjurer. He's not. And if he is, then what is my hero Bill Clinton? It wasn't right for those nutjobs to call him one when he wasn't, and it's not right for you to call the D.A. a perjurer when he isn't.

[Spiffarino]

155. Perjury!

...juuusssst fu**in' wit ya!
:)

[Surf Cowboy]

175. :)

:evilgrin:

[Oreegone]

79. Did he get money

Maybe someone should check into what is in Mr. Frenchs bank account. Why else would a prosecutor be so quick to sign? Especially a prosecutor in Oregon....they don't get paid all that well here.
:puffpiece:

[Dr Fate]

82. DEMS are organized, pissed, and kicking in teeth. NO Gore part II...

...so sorry Mr. Rove.

Your "genius" has about run out.

[Algomas]

86. Here is my .02

To whom it should concern:
First of all, French seems a strange last name for a Bush propagandist, given the anti-French hysteria encouraged in the run up to war in Iraq. Secondly, how did such a craven liar gain the public trust as prosecutor in your county?
The system is obviously broken and your actions in dealing with this matter could go a long way in restoring faith in our institutions. This man's lies are a disgrace to your profession and to your community.
This calls for stronger punishment than a slap on the wrist and a round of drinks at the golf course.
Please take the appropriate measures and publicly shame this miserable liar.

[someother]

87. Another approach

If you are writing to the DA or the Bar, you may also want to suggest that they consider DR 1-102(4), which makes it professional misconduct to "engage in conduct that is prejudicial to the administration of justice."

It doesn't seem unreasonable (although IANAL) that a lot of time will be spent in the future by other DDA's asking potential jurors questions concerning what they know about this incident, and whether that tilts them in favor of a not guilty verdict in a given case ...

[Surf Cowboy]

110. That isn't on point. This is not what that subsection was aimed at.

[someother]

117. You sure?

This is probably not the place to argue the fine points,
but I just talked to an Oregon lawyer who though an argument
could be made.

On balance your earlier advice to leave the legal niceties
to the lawyers seems the best idea for me. I think I'll try
to come close to the example set by pacoyogi below.

[Surf Cowboy]

140. Prejudicial to the administration of justice

means making a statement in court that an attorney knows will prejudice the jury, when such statement is obviously inadmissible, such as an attorney saying, "From the testimony of X, I believe that the Defendant is guilty," or "So tell me, Carjacker Willie..."


There are further meanings as well, but all involve the administration of justice--trial, preliminary hearing, etc...

In this case, there is no administration of justice....YET!

[Princess Turandot]

88. Here's my email..

Dear Sir,

Has your department no standards at all? Allowing a senior member of your staff to film a political ad, in which he may have perjured himself, can do nothing but cause the people ofyour county to believe that you operate with a rigged deck. Alfred French signed an affidavit inferring that he has personal knowledge that Mr. Kerry has lied about his war effort, when in fact,
he based his representations on the words of others. (These others have already been shown to be funded by major Republicans and have told so many conflicting stories that their claims are a becoming a boring farce.) Mr. French apparently claimed to have direct knowledge of a situation that he did not personally witness yet swore under oath that he had done so. Do the words 'rule of law' mean anything in Clackamas County?

Further, why are your employees, seen as representatives of your county government, allowed to film ads of any kind? The presence of Mr. French as one of your senior staff, would imply that he is representing a view held by your entire department. It's your job to present the view of your department, and your purview is that of law and order, not smear campaigns.

You should dismiss Mr. French and apologize to the voters of Clackamas County for what he did.
I'm sure you swore an oath to protect, defend and preserve the Constitution of the USA when you were sworn into office. Do your job, and do that. If Mr. French wants to campaign for the current president, give him the ability to do so full-time.

[EST]

91. Done!

Former Oregon citizen

[No Passaran]

92. I love Oregon

[GliderGuider]

93. My email

Dear Sir,

One of the attributes that has lifted the United States of America into world prominence in the last two hundred years is its uncompromising insistence on the rule of law. While I understand that this tradition has often been honoured in the breach, it appears to me that the breach committed by Mr. French is extraordinarily dishonourable. As I understand it, affidavits may only refer to events of which the author has personal knowledge. It appears that this is not the case for the affidavit sworn by Mr. French over his experiences with John Kerry in Vietnam. This gives Mr. French's statements at least the appearance of perjury. While there may be a legal escape hatch for Mr. French in this matter, the "rule of law" should place a greater burden of responsibility on those who practice it. I sincerely hope that appropriate action is taken against Mr. French.

[AirAmFan]

94. Have any OTHER LAWYERS signed SmearVets affidavits?

There ought to be a DU thread like this on EACH AND EVERY LAWYER in the bunch.

[Supersedeas]

98. Legal Affidavits: not based on 'personal knowledge'

Not that legal is it? Much less competent and professional.

But when towing the Bush Party line becomes more important than competent and professional sworn statements, then not only is a politics askew, but so it our legal system.

So, the question remains: does the Prosecutor represent the "People" of Oregon...or...does he represent the likes of Karl Rove when he approaches the bench with sworn statements?

[msanthrope]

97. Here's my email.....

As a law student, I am disgusted and dismayed that your office would retain a prosecutor with so little respect for the law. Mr. France signed and swore to an affidavit regarding John Kerry's military record; now he claims that he relied on the word of three other veterans.

If you can't see the peril of retaining a prosecutor who doesn’t understand the fundamentals of civil procedure, or worse, abrogates them for a political cause, I have no doubt that there are plenty of criminal defense attorneys in your jurisdiction who can, and should, call Mr. French's competency and integrity into question.


Stephanie S

[Supersedeas]

102. Very well done Paco

[Surf Cowboy]

142. Of which fundamental rule of civil procedure are you speaking?

[Supersedeas]

180. FRCP 56 (e) Form of Affidavits and their State equivalents

Supporting and opposing affidavits shall be made on personal knowledge, shall set forth such facts as would be admissible in evidence, and shall show affirmatively that the affiant is competent to testify to the matters stated therein.

[tandot]

100. How many others where relying on the accounts of other people?

"I've heard it from a friend of a friend of a distant cousin of mine...therefore I swear it is true"

:wtf:

Not only should he resign, he should be sued/prosecuted for it.

[Virginian]

111. What kind of Carrot or stick are these guys getting?

What pressure is strong enough to make a person risk his job to lie about a fellow veteran?
What is Rove offering them or threatening them with in order for them to destroy their lives?

[MadcityRock]

115. Exactly the right questions

We know pretty well what it took to turn Lynndie and other poor American kids into torturers, but what terrifies a formerly honorable veteran into becoming a lying scumbag?

[alfredo]

124. Here's the hero the swifties back.

[MaryBear]

130. The main problem

I have with this guy is that he apparently didn't do his homework. He made a public statement condemning a man seeemingly without talking to folks who were there. I wouldn't want him defending me, but maybe he does fine as a prosecutor. Ugly stuff!

[Tuttle]

137. I wouldn't want him 'defending me' in the sense of having him...

prosecuting my assailant: I predict lots of criminals will have grounds for re-sentencing (at the very least) in his district!

Tut-tut

[Surf Cowboy]

141. Typical prosecutor

believe what you want to believe, send people to jail. It's harder to be a prosecutor if you recognize that you're not always right. I know I'm not always right, but on this thread...I'm Sterling, baby!

[Sterling]

168. No that would be me.

I am always Sterling. Plz don't forget it.

[Surf Cowboy]

176. LOL, Sterling!!

[lebkuchen]

143. Done.

Can't hurt to get an e-mail from the US military in Germany! :)

[Zorra]

145. His credibility as a prosecutor is shot. Best for him to resign now,

before people really start digging into his past.

[KDLarsen]

151. Just recieved a reply from mr. Foote

.. and unless we keep building a pressure on him, nothing is going to happen.
-----------------

Mr. Larsen,

Thank you for taking the time to contact our office with your
comments/concerns about Mr. French. I want to begin by saying that, while I
do not personally share the opinions expressed by our prosecutor, all of our
employees have the right to their own opinions on these subjects and to
express those opinions in their own time. I believe that this is what
happened here. Sometimes good people just honestly disagree. It is
particularly difficult when it is on subjects that are so important to our
nation and our community. Thanks again for contacting the Clackamas County
District Attorney's Office.

John S. Foote
Clackamas County District Attorney

[Hepburn]

152. Here is my original email to Foote, his response and my reply.

Emails - reading from bottom to top in order of being sent.

______________________________________________________________________

Dear Mr. Foote:

I am sure you sent a generic response. However, my issue with Mr. French is his violation of the rules of professional conduct. That, I assume, is not an issue of differing opinion on political matters. Mr. French signed an affidavit wherein he did not reveal that his statements were not made of his own personal knowledge, but rather that they were made based on what he had been told by others. This, IMO, was done to actively conceal his lack of personal knowledge. It is and was misleading and it violated the duty of an attorney to not engage in misleading conduct.

Could you please respond to that issue?

BTW: I could not care less about the political persuasion of Mr. French. But I am concerned about misleading statements which appear to have been made to intentionally damage the reputation of another person.
______________________________________________________________________

[e-mail] wrote:

> Dear Ms. XXXXXX,
>
> Thank you for taking the time to contact our office with your
> comments/concerns about Mr. French. I want to begin by saying that, while I
> do not personally share the opinions expressed by our prosecutor, all of our
> employees have the right to their own opinions on these subjects and to
> express those opinions in their own time. I believe that this is what
> happened here. Sometimes good people just honestly disagree. It is
> particularly difficult when it is on subjects that are so important to our
> nation and our community. Thanks again for contacting the Clackamas County
> District Attorney's Office.
>
> John S. Foote
> Clackamas County District Attorney
>_____________________________________________________________________

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail] Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 10:40 AM
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Alfred French
>
> As you can see by my email nick, I am an attorney. I am, however, not from your area. I am from California. I was shocked that Mr. French would act as he did. This is not an issue of political point of view, but an issue of an attorney knowingly signing that he had personal knowledge of certain events. We all know that when an averment is made on "belief" that this must be particularly set out in the document. Mr. French failed to state that what he signed under oath was based not on his own personal knowledge, but on the statements of others.

> You are well aware, I am sure, of the disregard that the general public holds for lawyers in general. Mr. French has added to this negative image in my opinion. I would therefore request that you have, as his supervisor, a duty to report him to your State Bar. To not do so, I would opine, support like and similar conduct from other lawyers. His affidavit is clearly misleading and was made under a false premises.

> Thank you,

XXXXXX X. XXXXXX
>
>

[Gothmog]

156. good job

You did a great job of turning the generic response around and trying to get the DA to focus on the true issue, the violations of the applicable ethical standards.

One thing that you might ad and I am going to put in my e-mail is that condoning perjury sends a bad message to the public and renders this DA incapable of trying any cases where perjury is or may be an issue. How can this DA in the future challenge a witness who lies under oath when there is clear documentation that the DA has done the same or worse.

Every defense attorney who has a case against this DA needs to (a) make sure that there are some democrats on the jury and (b) put the actions of this DA in question if there is any question about a witness lying under oath.

[Hepburn]

158. Hey, thanks!

On the issue of perjury, I am backing away from that a bit because IMO a reasonable defense can be mounted on behalf of French and the standard of proof is beyond a reasonable doubt. Thus, I can see some argument coming back from Foote on any allegation in regard to this.

However, on the violation of the Rules of Professional Conduct, IMO, French clearly violated this and I am going to keep emailing until I get a non-generic reply from Foote.

[Spiffarino]

157. Ooohhhh...good stuff, Hep!

:kick:

[Hepburn]

159. Thank you!

Like I said, I am going to keep going on this issue until Foote manages to reply back to me with an email which is not a generic response. BTW: I am looking on the Oregon state bar site to see if they have an atty complaint form that can be printed. I know the CA bar does. So...what I am thinking is that as a member of the general population, anyone might have standing to file a complaint against French. I would suppose that the Oregon state bar cannot ignore hundreds of complaints. And...if they do, wouldn't that just make a wonderful news article for the Oregon papers????

You know, what French did really frosts me. I get the "attys are scumbags" attitude all the time and French's conduct IMO sure did not help the image of attys for any of us.

[Spiffarino]

164. You're welcome.

And, for the record, attorneys are scumbags. IT technicians (my profession) are also scumbags. Also doctors, accountants, and car mechanics. Come to think of it, there are liars, thieves, and out-and-out jerks in every profession.

So what?

I don't want to live in a country where companies that make products that kill aren't held accountable for the messes they create for the sake of profit. Nor would I be happy in a country where my civil rights and others' were ignored because nobody was around to stand up for us.

I had one law class in college, and I took away one very valuable lesson. The attorney who taught the class once said, "You may think you hate attorneys...until the day you need one." You could have knocked me over with a writ. He said it all.

Rock on, Hepburn. Keep up the good fight.

[Hepburn]

166. LOL....I got a non-generic response from Foote himself!

Check this out:

"As you surely must guess, the response has been overwhelming, we're doing the best that we can. I apologize if you have not been satisfied with the response you received. I will put this e-mail aside and try to formulate a more satisfying response. I certainly hope you enjoy the rest of your day.

JSF"

Yep, I do have to agree on attorneys: We are a necessary evil! :evilgrin:

[acmavm]

167. Hey, that's the same reply I got. Must have been so damn many

complaints that they had to come up with a mass e-mail response.

Funny.

[Spiffarino]

173. No surprise there...

Don't mess wit' da DU. Fuggedaboudit.

[dmr]

160. How can anyone know if he lies when he's in court?

or withholds evidence that would benefit the accused, but jeopardize his case?

How can anyone trust him?

He of all people should know and understand the meaning of a sworn affidavit - and he would go after anyone who lied in an affidavit if it helped any of his cases.

He has proven he is not trustworthy.

He has lost credibility.

[donkeyotay]

161. dear fellow layman

While I can appreciate that lawyers feel they should have the final say on these matters, I think people need to think for themselves. What average people think matters, too. So, in that spirit, I set out, armed with my deluxe color edition of the New World Dictionary to define terms:

an affidavit means: (in law) a written statement made under oath...

an oath is: a ritualistic declaration... that one will speak the truth, keep a promise, remain faithful, etc.

perjury is described as: the willful telling of a lie while under lawful oath or affirmation to tell the truth in a matter material to the point of inquiry, or (2) the breaking of any oath or formal promise.

This is the language as it is commonly used. Be common. Go ahead and use it. Leave the twisting things around into knots for the professionals.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on tv.

[acmavm]

162. Perjury

per·ju·ry ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pûrj-r)
n. pl. per·ju·ries
Law. The deliberate, willful giving of false, misleading, or incomplete testimony under oath.
The breach of an oath or promise.

FROM BARRON'S LEGAL DICTIONARY: Page 368

Perjury: Criminal offense of making false statement under oath or affirmation; at common law, only a corrupt sworn statement made without sincere belief in its truth, and made in a judicial proceeding regarding a material matter, was perjury. Today, statutes have broadened the offense so that in some jurisdictions any false swearing in a legal instrument or legal setting is perjury, even if it is not material and though it is not presented in a legal proceeding. See Perkins and Boyce, Criminal Law 511 (3d ed. 1982); Model Penal Code Section 241.1.

****
Procedure for an affidavit:

(This is a legal instrument, by the way.) You have to SWEAR that you have read the pleading (or whatever statement you are dealing with), and that the statements contained in it are TRUE TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE, information, and belief.

DAMMITT!

[Hepburn]

165. That is what I see as the problem with a perjury charge...

....it is a subjective test on what French held as a good faith belief when he made the affidavit. So IMO there can be an argument made that he in fact held such a belief about what was said to him and therefore did not commit perjury.

However, the affidavit on its face does not disclose that he was relying on third party statements. That IMO is in and of itself misleading and in violation of the Rules of Professional Conduct. When one reads his affidavit, it appears that he served with Kerry and was an eye witness to certain events. This is not the truth of the matter and it appears to have been intentionally crafted to leave this false impression. Thus it is in my opinion intentionally misleading. Hence the violation of that particular Rule of Professional Conduct.

If I am going to go after something, I would rather go after the issue upon which I have the best shot. As to the violation of the Rules of Professional Conduct, this to me is a better shot and it would hurt his career if he were disciplined for this.

FWIW and JMHO

[donkeyotay]

178. what about libel?

"When one reads his affidavit, it appears that he served with Kerry and was an eye witness to certain events. This is not the truth of the matter and it appears to have been intentionally crafted to leave this false impression. Thus it is in my opinion intentionally misleading. Hence the violation of that particular Rule of Professional Conduct."

Yes, and isn't intentionally maligning someone's character called libel? It's not that he just repeated a story, it's that he misrepresented their case to the public as being something he could swear to. Seems he, as a lawyer, would know this was deceitful and damaging to Kerry's reputation.

[Gothmog]

181. I agree that the ethics charge is a stronger attack

It is going to be very difficult for the DA to deal with the ethics charges being made compared to a perjury charge that has some technical but real issues. What this bozo did was a clear violation of a couple of ethical rules that are clearer and easier to enforce than a perjury complaint. As noted by the response from the DA, he is having a difficult time answering Hepburn's charge and wants to think about it.

The Bar and most attorneys take ethical complaints very seriously and I would not be surprised to see some disciplinary action taken as a result of this bozo's actions. On the other hand, I think that prosecution for perjury on this false affidavit is very unlikely.

[Sterling]

169. So surf guy needs to chill?

One thing I know about lawyers, (I have hired plenty). They hardly ever agree on what the law really is and they always think they themselves alone understand the law above all others.

[thecrow]

171. I sent another letter to Mr. Foote...

I said that obviously, he hadn't read my first letter, and sent me a form letter...
Then I said I was submitting my evidence that French was lying (in the form of the original story reported here AND the Affadavit in question) and repeated my request that he be terminated immediately as he has demonstrated that he is above the rule of law.

Could it be that French himself is opening these emails?
<shudder>

I did find it refreshing that Mr. Foote stated that he does "not personally share the opinions expressed by" French, I believe phone calls may be in order, especially if we keep getting stonewalled and he keeps saying "it's a difference of OPINION".
What do you think?

[thecrow]

172. Nambe, could you please post this in GD, and/or the Campaign forum

If it hasn't already been done?
We need more people on this.
This is outrageous!

[bearfan454]

177. My letter and the bs response I got back

Mr.------,
Thank you for taking the time to contact our office with your comments/concerns about Mr. French. I want to begin by saying that, while I do not personally share the opinions expressed by our prosecutor, all of our employees have the right to their own opinions on these subjects and to express those opinions in their own time. I believe that this is what happened here. Sometimes good people just honestly disagree. It is particularly difficult when it is on subjects that are so important to our nation and our community. Thanks again for contacting the Clackamas County District Attorney's Office.

John S. Foote

Clackamas County District Attorney

-----Original Message-----
From: Stevo Martinez
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 6:38 PM
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Resign now

You signed a sworn affidavit that was false. That is a felony. You people are scared to death of Nov 2nd and the American people kicking bush the criminal out of office. Resign now and surrender yourself for making a false statement in an affidavit.......Stevo ------

[donkeyotay]

179. RW strategy: deny something you weren't accused of

"...all of our employees have the right to their own opinions on these subjects and to express those opinions in their own time."

Typical republican strategy - respond off topic.

Yes, Mr. Prosecutor, people do have the right to express their own opinions on their own time. But the issue at hand is whether Mr. French has behaved unethically or unlawfully. What he did is significantly different from working against Kerry or for Bush, or even expressing his opinion that Kerry is a commie, or whatever.

He used a legal document and appeared in an ad that led x-number of Americans to conclude that they now had "proof" that Kerry was a liar, unfit for command.

[Clown_King]

182. My Reply & Email from Clackamas DA

Just thought I'd share with you the letter I wrote to DA Foote at the Clackamas County DA's office regard the false affidavit by Alfred French:



Dear Mr. Foote:

I am writing to you in response to the legal affidavit that Alfred French, a senior deputy district attorney in your office, signed attested to his claim in the Swift boat ad that "I served with John Kerry. . . . He is lying about his record." I find this especially disturbing when he confesses in the Oregonian that he was relying on the accounts of three other veterans when he said Kerry lied.


I am not an attorney, but doesn't this behavior violate the rules of professional conduct of your profession? French signed an affidavit wherein he did not reveal that his statements were not his own personal knowledge, but rather that they were made based on what he had been told by others. In my opinion, this appears as if it was done to knowingly conceal his lack of personal knowledge and to just smear John Kerry.

Mr. French's act was not only misleading, but a conscious engagement in misleading conduct against John Kerry.

Unlike other emails you might be receiving from around the country, I am a resident of Clackamas county here in Oregon. I could, feasibly, be personally impacted by this type of misleading conduct (where does it begin/end?) if I was ever to appear in court. Mr. French's actions don't inspire much faith in the Clackamas DA at this time.

The response I got from my email is as follows:

X-Originating-IP: <198.XXX.132.XXX>
From: Web Address for District Attorney
<[e-mail]>
To: XXXXXXXXXXX <[e-mail]>
Subject: Out of Office AutoReply: French Affidavit
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 15:12:07 -0700
X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19)


Thank you for contacting the Clackamas County District Attorney's Office.
This office will no longer be responding to messages regarding Al French.
However, all messages pertaining to regular business will be promptly
addressed. Thank you.


I wonder if this means they are just trying to ignore it or perhaps they have been hit hard with the email complaints. Don't know. Just thought I'd share this with all of you.

[struggle4progress]

183. kick

:kick:

[thecrow]

184. Oregon law regarding professional conduct

DR 1-102 Misconduct; Responsibility for Acts of Others
(A) It is professional misconduct for a lawyer to:

(1) Violate these disciplinary rules, knowingly assist or induce another to do so, or do so through the acts of another;

(2) Commit a criminal act that reflects adversely on the lawyer's honesty, trustworthiness or fitness to practice law;

(3) Engage in conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, deceit or misrepresentation;
http://www2.law.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/foliocgi.exe/or-code/query=/doc/{@8}?
*************************
Also:
Richard Neil Belcher was granted the privilege of practicing law in the State of Arkansas by this Court on August 24, 1983. Subsequently, Mr. Belcher was admitted to the Oregon State Bar where he actively engaged in the practice of law until September 1994.

In October 1998, the Arkansas Supreme Court Committee on Professional Conduct learned that the Oregon State Bar previously had caused severe lawyer disciplinary sanctions to be imposed on Mr. Belcher. In 1993, the Oregon State Bar suspended Mr. Belcher from the practice of law for forty-five days for violation of that jurisdiction's rules governing professional conduct of lawyers. He was found to have engaged in conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, deceit, or misrepresentation; conduct prejudicial to the administration of justice; and willful deceit or misconduct in the profession.
MORE...http://courts.state.ar.us/opinions/1999a/19990211/belcher.html
********************************************************
I think people from Oregon should contact the oregon Bar and ask about French with regard to these laws.