Pedophile Priest Geoghan killed in prison

[Cooley Hurd]

http://www2.bostonherald.com/news/local_regional/geoghan08232003.htm



Former priest John Geoghan, a notorious pedophile whose case sparked the clergy molestation scandal of the past 18 months, died this afternoon after being attacked at the state prison in Shirley.


``The perpetrator has been isolated,'' said Kelly Nantell, a spokeswoman for the state Deparment of Corrections.

``Our investigation continues,'' she said.

The matter has been referred to the Middlesex County District Attorney Martha Coakley's office.

Geoghan was serving a nine-to-10 year sentence at MCI Shirley for allegedly groping a boy at a Waltham swimming pool.

More than 140 people have claimed they were abused by Geoghan, claiming they were fondled or raped at locations ranging from church rectories to their own homes.

[Fenris]

1. Whoa

Did not see that one coming.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

63. Not surprised

I used to work with street kids, and a lot of them were both survivors of child sexual abuse and involved in petty or major crime.

In fact, there was one instance where a girl got mad at one of the guys for some reason and accused him of molesting her small son. The accused and some of the other street kids said the accuser was crazy--her son had been in foster care for a long time, and the guy had never even seen him.

Still the rumor spread, and the guy started getting death threats from other street kids. One evening he came into the drop-in center, terrified because some other kids were after him with knives.

The center workers called up another center in Salem, and two adult male volunteers took the guy to the bus station and put him on the bus for Salem till things cooled down.

When we talked about the incident, the center staff said they would sort things out later, but that the guy's life really was in danger, and they did not want a murder on their conscience.

[Vitruvius]

78. See also GD thread re Geoghan at

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=221568

[NickB79]

2. I've heard that, of all the crimes you could be sentenced for

Child molestation/rape is one of the worst simply because even the inmates hate people who do such acts. Some criminals get respect for murder or assault, but there is no respect earned among criminals by assaulting defenseless children. Convicts are still human, and many of them have children of their own on the outside.

As for Father Geoghan, I won't say he got what he deserved; that would be too un-Christian. I will say that I hope he begged for forgiveness before he went, because now he's seeing his true Judge.

[rfranklin]

7. Most of those inmates were raped as childred....

by their Republican fathers, who believed in "spare the rod, spoil the child" discipline.

[rook1]

47. You have stooped

way below where you should be with a comment like that.

"Most of those inmates were raped as childred...."
Posted by rfranklin
by their Republican fathers, who believed in "spare the rod, spoil the child" discipline

It goes way beyond disgusting. Way beneath the standards of this forum. My father was a republican, I AM NOT! He never raped anyone in his life. In fact he worked hard all of his life to support us. I resent that you would make a blanket statement like this.

Regardless of peoples political affiliation generlized statemnets are nonsense. Even if some people on this forum won't admit it many have Repugs in their families and for friends. I find your comment both offensive and out of line.

[TeeYiYi]

66. Get over it! . . .

He didn't say that all Republicans are rapists and he said absolutely nothing about your father.
Your knee-jerk reaction begs the question — "Why so touchy?". Did he hit a nerve?

TYY

[rook1]

80. No afraid not

The implication was clear and had nothing to do with "begging the question". The comment was out of line and I stand by my comment.

[Muddleoftheroad]

87. You have to admit

The comment was appalling and belongs more on Freerepublic than this board.

[rock]

14. Inmates are human beings for the most part

Not like these monsters.

[wryter2000]

19. Well put, Nick (nt)

eom

[Junkdrawer]

25. My wife's ex was an assistant DA for a large city that prosecuted...

crimes done to children. Child molesters are called "short eyes" in prison and are, very, very often, killed or seriously hurt in prison.

[Junkdrawer]

46. Oh, and before you applaud...

remember this is why child molesters often kill their victims - they know what will happen if they are caught.

[amazona]

53. thank you

Encouraging this sort of thing is encouraging the death penalty for innocent children and women. How many are killed to cover up their crimes? Sigh.

I would not wish my abuser killed...what I wish is peace.

[DealsGapRider]

3. Got what he deserved.

Sorry, I know it's not a nice thing to say. But reading that headline brought a smile to my face. If there's a hell, that man is in it.

[flamingyouth]

5. I agree

What a remoreseless bastard. I feel far sorrier for his victims than for him.

[GCP]

40. It seems like his sister was also remorseless

She was once quoted as saying she didn't know what all the fuss was about - or words to that effect - in the middle of his trial. Truly dysfunctional people, the world is a better place without him.

[DoNotRefill]

67. While a part of me is happy...

it's the vengeful father part. A much bigger part is sad that this is the state of our corrections system. Talk about "extra-judicial punishment." While I in no way condone what the man did, and am in fact pissed at him beyond belief, the punishment for abusing children is not supposed to be the death penalty.

The guy may deserve to burn in Hell, but GODDAMN IT, he didn't deserve to die like that. What happened to him is little different than if the State executed him. They put him in a situation where he could (and they KNEW he would) be abused and killed. It's BARBARIC.

While a small part of me is happy about this, the rest of me is ashamed that I have such feelings.

[aquart]

84. Oh, he deserved it. BUT......

Since he was in government custody and his sentence was not death, the obligation was there to keep him alive. We failed. If necessary, we may want to consider a central prison solely for sex offenders.

But I do wonder, at the end, if he understood what it meant to be helpless to save himself from someone else's overwhelming malignant decision.

[Muddleoftheroad]

88. Perhaps

This proves the whole argument about locking up murderers with other prisoners better than anything else.

[shockandawed]

4. I know I am wrong but ...

I feel better.

Child molesters that have affected 140 children and take no responsibility come close to deserving this, and the state did not have to do it.

After all, he was sentanced to only 9 years, would have been out sooner, and would have been a threat again.

[realFedUp]

6. I guess the guards and administration didn't isolate him...

threw him to the wolves.

[opihimoimoi]

8. Why waste all that food/water/air?

he is dead, thats it.

His choice for all those abuse incidents.

he chose to risk the high price.

That price has been paid.

End of story.

Come, we go eat

[realFedUp]

10. just not poi please.

:-)

[liberalnurse]

17. Yea, they are going to get in big trouble.....

I suspect some guard or guards were in on the set-up. Sex offenders are typically kept in "like quarters" at a "Closed" level not open population just for this very reason.If they have a long sentence, and after they finished sex-rehab they may go to a Minimum level...but that takes a while longer.....


Any CO's here? ( Correction Officers)

[jmm]

55. According to the local news he was in a protective custody unit.

New England Cable News said so about 10 minutes ago.

If someone could get away with murdering a person isolated in protective custody in a supermax prison then something is seriously wrong with the system.

edited because I fogot a couple of words.

[CBHagman]

105. The prison was short-staffed.

They had one guard in charge where they should have had several, the news reports say.

That this happened is no surprise to anyone who is familiar with what happens to convicted molesters in prison. Even author Jeffrey Archer, imprisoned for a nonviolent crime, reports from the U.K. that child molesters are physically tortured by fellow prisoners.

I would be careful, however, about making off-the-cuff comments about Republicans (as above) and/or notions about this being "justice." The guy who killed him was a convicted murderer and sounds terribly unstable. Is that who you'd like to represent you?

There's also no real closure for the other victims of the molestation crimes. There would have been further trials. I only hope that there is some form of justice in the end.

[peacefreak]

9. Ever hear of the three-fold law?

what goes around, comes around, three times better or worse. 'Nuff said.

[w13rd0]

11. Death penalty in the case of those that prey on children...

...kinda makes sense for a vast majority of the population. As opposed as I am to the dealth penalty "on principle", even incarcerated convicts shed no tears for child predators. It's become a taboo in our culture for a reason, and to juxtapose it, we also see the way adolescents are increasingly sexualized and made into a 'commodity' by that same culture.

We juggle double edged swords...

[shockandawed]

36. NO death sentance for these people

first of all because the state should not be in the business of killing its own citizens, and secondly because 99.99% of all sexual predators are former victims who were not treated. Of course they will offend, as all children do. The only reason I have so much anger for this man is just the hypocracy of the church, his lack of atonement, and the sheer volume of the complaints, tied to the short sentance. He would have been out in 5-7 years, and may have reoffended.

[Muddleoftheroad]

89. If not death

Then NEVER let them out. Ever.

[kysrsoze]

99. Fuck Him

The guy knew he had a problem. If I had those urges, I would either kill myself or go have a serious talk with a therapist. I'm sure it was like being in a candy store for him.

[greenwow]

12. Yet another example of ...

the criminal incompetence of the thugs in blue. They can't even protect someone in their custody.

[opihimoimoi]

13. Protecting the child molestor?? Fuck that. Who protects the kids?

He prolly was molesting another inmate, you , touching an all that shit. Got himself killed.

Come, there are more important issues to talk about, Tiger 3 strokes back for one.

[sfecap]

15. Child molestors don't get much protection.

Too bad.

[cherryperry]

21. What makes you think they tried? n/t

[ronnykmarshall]

39. Oh please

The thug was that "man of god" that molested those kids.

[shanti]

57. haahahahaha

that's funny...ever heard of LIHOP?

[JPace]

16. Goodbye Geoghan .......

Gonna be a lot of dry eyes at your funeral!

[Demobrat]

18. Live by the sword die by the sword.

Bye.

[opihimoimoi]

20. He was "groping" the wrong guy who could hit back.

and now he be dead as a door nail.

Live by the grope, die by the punch.

BTW FOX has been on this like flies on shit. You would think JFK got killed for gods sake,

[Aristus]

22. You have any idea how many men behind bars are fathers?

There are scads and scads of them. They don't like pedophils, whatever their own crimes may be. I read an interview once with a prison inmate whose little daughter had died while he was in the slam. They organized a memorial service for her and played Chris De Burgh's "The Lady In Red". (the little girl had been buried in her favorite red dress.) This guy said you never saw so many hardened, tough, tattooed, scary-looking men crying so hard and weeping as if thier hearts were breaking. I don't condone what those guys did to the priest; I'm just saying I'm not the least surprised.

[bluestateguy]

23. Chickens Come Home to Roost!

Bawk! Bawk! Bawk!!

Oh, um, yeah, I don't condone him being killed. Yep, yeah, sure.

[neomonkey]

24. Ah yes! I feel like I'm in a den of right-wingED jackals

My philosophy will not change in spite of the monster before me.

No man, country or government has the right to take another person's life.

Yes, pedophilia and murder are something we can all "unite" around in our disdain and hate.

And tomorrow, perhaps others will unite around their disdain of liberals and find an equally justifiable reason to kill us too.

Look at you people, rejoicing in murder. Does that make you feel good?

I'll suggest you buy an X-box and play Halo, it does wonders for that animal urge which was never meant to see the light of day.

[maxanne]

26. I don't rejoice

but I don't sorrow, either. I wouldn't wish him dead, I'd rather he live long and suffer the consequences of his actions.

But don't expect me to post some pious, hypocritical message.

Have any kids, neomonkey? I wonder if you'd be turning the other cheek so easily if he'd molested one of yours. The man was a monster.

[neomonkey]

27. Yes

I have a 5 year old son, and he will be turning 6 in 2 weeks.

[neomonkey]

28. And BTW

Thank you for calling me a hypocrite.

Where do you rest that accusation?

[maxanne]

29. where do you see

me making that accusation? Where did I call you a hypocrite?

[neomonkey]

32. Here

But don't expect me to post some pious, hypocritical message

Sorry Maxanne, but I had no other way to read that.

[maxanne]

34. perhaps you should try harder.

I don't mention you. I don't mention anything about you. I say - don't expect me to. It doesn't say I think you did - it says don't expect me to.

You're trying so hard to find an insult that you're reading between unwritten lines. :eyes:

[Uzybone]

30. Not happy at murder

but this is not suprising. Child molesters do not last long in prison unless they are isolated. We really shouldnt tolerate the horrible things that go on in prison such as rape but its hard to care about an evil man meeting his just deserts.

[DoNotRefill]

68. now THAT pisses me off...

"We really shouldnt tolerate the horrible things that go on in prison such as rape but its hard to care about an evil man meeting his just deserts."

The rights and protection given to the vilest, meanest criminal (and this scumbag comes close to the limit on that) are the rights and protections that EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US HAS.

OK, so the guy was the epitome of evil, a total scumbag, and karmically, he had it coming. I hope that the people here celebrating his demise never end up in some kind of correctional setting, and end up being on the receiving end of such brutality.

Think about this. We live in a time where people go to jail for their political views. What happens when the correctional system lets the "ordinary, decent criminals" know that certain classes of people are "fair game"? Do you think that political prisoners may end up in that "fair game" category? I think it's likely. Thanks, but NO FUCKING THANKS.

[Uzybone]

96. and your point.....

differs from mine where?

[DoNotRefill]

102. Sorry....

reading your first post, it sounded to me like you were saying it's hard to care about what happened to him. Refusing to care about abuses like this is the best way to ensure that they continue.

[Uzybone]

110. I still say its hard to care about it

if *, Hitler or Bin Laden was summarily executed by a mob I would say it was wrong and I would prefer that they recieve justice the way we as a society have decided is appropiate. But you wont find me wringing my hands about it. This case is the same. It was wrong and should never be tolerated but Im not shedding tears about this man. I dont think anyone here is advocating extra-judicial punishments, that would be madness.

[Cheswick2.0]

65. I have children and I was also molested as a child

I feel sickened by this, yet another senseless murder. This man was a scumbag, no doubt, but he was also probably a victim himself. Once upon a time he was a little boy that someone molested and sent off to a life of corruption.
I understand your feelings, however blood revenge is something I can not be calous about.

[SiobhanClancy]

31. I agree 100%

I'm against the death penalty,whether imposed by the state or by an individual. Child molesters are guilty of horrible crimes,as are murderers. I don't rejoice in this man's death,or in any death. Killing,except in rare situations,is wrong. The mentality that finds a murder to be a cause for celebration is alien to me.

[qanda]

33. I agree

I prefer to use this time to hope for the healing of victims rather than rejoice in a continue cycle of violence. May every victim be made whole and find peace without revenge.

[laylah]

44. As a very strong and healthy

survivor of long-term, traumatic child sexual abuse, I am saddened by this man's death. What he did was WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, he "murdered the souls" of many chidren, ruining numerous ones forever, wounding others for a very long time; HOWEVER, he too was a walking wounded and more than likely a victim at one time or another. My anger stems from the hypocrisy (sp) as a man of the cloth, other than that, I do ask that once he faces whatever God he faces, he rests in peace.

jenn

ON EDIT: I sit here weeping...but for whom? Him? His victims? Myself? The disillusionment as a recovering Catholic? Probably all.

[DoNotRefill]

69. I'm also an abuse survivor...

and I don't think my abuser "murdered my soul." I sure as hell wasn't "ruined forever".

Abuse of any form sucks. I know it sucks first hand. But, while the abuse helped form me into the person I am today, I'm HAPPY about the way I turned out. Yes, I have some serious issues, I still have nightmares and other symptoms 30+ years later, but was my soul murdered? HELL NO. I've faced some serious adversity, and overcome it to the best of my ability. While I dearly wish that I hadn't been abused, I was, and I've dealt with it as best as I could.

Shit happens. The way we deal with it is the important thing.

[laylah]

73. well.....

unfortunately not all are as awesome and compassionate as you. Many do not have the support to move on, nor do they know HOW to move on. I am very pleased with how I turned out, also, against all odds but I would never insult a victim or survivor with the "shit happens" dismissal of a life altering experience.

[shanti]

58. do you have a child?

*on edit, i see that you do* i daresay that if it was your own child molested by this animal, you would think MUCH differently. hell, some parents wouldn't even have let that piece of shyt see the prison walls!

[laylah]

74. ?

Is this a response to me? jenn

[shanti]

85. no

it's not to you

[laylah]

86. thanks n/t

[stevedeshazer]

64. Thank you for saying this

The death penalty is wrong, and I will gladly debate anyone who advocates it.

[rman]

75. i see no rejoicing here

people saying "not surprised" or "not sorry" is not rejoicing.

[neomonkey]

35. this is my rough time line...

Priest sexually abuses and molests children in his care.

The children go on and either directly or indirectly inflict further harm on society because no one bothered to help them.

The priest is eventually arrested.

He is placed in prison, and some guards, in a fit of spite and misplaced pursuit of justice, "forget" that they placed him in the general population (I'm sure a faint suggestion is made during his rounds to a few select inmates).

The priest is probably fucked brutally before being killed. Oh yes, we love that, don't we?

Anyways, so little by little, in the ensuing years, the inmates are released. But by some strange miracle, even thought maybe 3 or 4 inmates were actually responsible for this hideousness, by the time they are released, maybe 300 inmates will claim credit.

They go out into the world again, ex-cons, people who you are lauding right now and who would not think twice about killing or raping your of-age wife, and they will all brag about killing the child-molesting priest.

Young kids will hear that and think it's great.

And they will tow the party line.

[MurrayDelph]

37. At times like these ...

I like to remember the words of "Moms" Mabley, who said:

"You should never speak of the dead unless it's good.

He's dead.

Good."


MurrayDelph
Support the Troops:Send Bush to Nuremburg

[ronnykmarshall]

38. Manson next?

Please transfer Chuck Manson to that prison. That sorry sack of shit deserves the same treatment.

[amazona]

52. really, who did Manson kill?

I wasn't aware that Charles Manson had ever been convicted of actually physically raping or killing anyone. His entire trial was based on "he brainwashed them weak wimmen."

Any of us could have been Charles Manson. If we smoked the evil weed and gave women oral sex...we were somehow controlling their minds.

I just don't feel that Manson deserves death.

And, though I suppose it makes me seem weak, I don't think killing Geoghan is all to the good -- there were many victims yet he had not acknowledged -- they will never receive closure now. They suffered decades, he suffered a couple years. Hmm. Doesn't seem quite fair to me.

If there is a god, which I am beginning to doubt, he will judge us by our treatment of the despised...Jesus IIRC was one of them.

[noonwitch]

108. Manson participated in some of the murders

He tied up the LaBiancas before turning Tex and the girls loose on them. He also killed Shorty Shea, a ranch hand at Spahn Ranch that didn't like Charlie and his "family" and wanted to protect old man Spahn from them. Even if he hadn't actually been there, he conspired to commit murder and should get the same sentence as those who implemented his orders.
He also had sex with underage girls and boys that joined his cult, after he encouraged them to ingest large quantities of LSD. This is all well documented in Vince Bugiosi's book, "Helter Skelter".

[sujan]

41. good

Awesome......

[neomonkey]

42. Forget the edit

It's awsome

[pompano]

43. Terrible

I think this is horrible.
Last I looked we did not have laws on the books that call for the death sentence for child molestors. This man was convicted and sentenced. He was serving the sentence imposed upon him. It was not a death sentence, nor a death sentence case. He was given an added death sentence whether intentional or not. The executioner was most likely a person who on different ocassions couldn’t live by societies rules of law either. What gives him the right to impose his version of justice on ANYONE?

The day we condone, turn a blind eye or otherwise accept convicted criminals sentencing and executing convicted criminals, we have allowed our justice system to slip further backwards and invite anarchy.

I am not an apologist for child molesters. I think a convicted child molestor should spend the rest of their rotten lives in a cell. When our society finds that CM is such a heinous crime that it warrants a death penalty, then impose it, not before, and not by someone that can’t follow the laws themselves.

I have little sympathy for the deceased in this case.

[Blue_Chill]

91. All of you who are posting versions of 'he deserved it' are irresponsible

I mean exactly what I wrote in the subject. Those of you that simply don't care that this man was killed in prison even though he was not given the death penalty are irresponsible citizens and human beings. When we allow our justice (if it can still be called that) system to become a violent hell hole we all suffer the consequences. Criminals that go in come out worse and the standards of right and wrong are blurred.

If we turn a blind eye or support this kind of behavior we are no better then the criminals held behind steel and concrete. Heartless drones that care only for those of whom we approve. It has been said that a person can be measured by how he treats someone that is of no use to him. I would expand on that further and say we can be measured by how we treat those we dislike.

Please think for a second what it is like for someone who is wrongly convicted or convicted of a small crime to enter a enviroment such as modern day American prisons. By saying this mans fate causes you know concern you are condeming these other people in our system to fates much worse then our courts handed them. You are saying that you don't care for civility or compassion.

[Muddleoftheroad]

92. Death penalty

I would have been happier HAD he gotten the death penalty. That said, he didn't. But when you mix ordinary prisoners in with those who murder, what happened becomes inevitiable.

[jmm]

45. I'd love to find out how this happened in a supermax prison.

Of course his crimes sicken me but I hate to think that (best case scenario) guards are not doing their job properly. This is not the first time I've heard of a prisoner in MA dying in questionable circumstances.

[MaineDem]

83. Is Shirley a max security prison?

I'm pretty sure it wasn't when I lived down that way. Of course, that could have changed.

[alfredo]

48. Geoghan, William, Dahmer all knew the risks,

but did what they did. They paid the ultimate price.

If you don't want to get shit on your shoes, stay out of the barn yard.

[neomonkey]

49. Hey alfredo

Did you know posting on this board can be dangerous in the mind of


Creepy John Ashcroft?

hmmmm

[maxanne]

50. it's not acceptable

It is not acceptable to threaten other posters. Is your finger on the dial right now? Creep.

[alfredo]

54. Yup, and I don't care what Johnnie Asscleft thinks about

me.

[neomonkey]

56. I think irony is lost

On you guys.

Simply stated, the intolerance you 2 are so proudly touting right now for someone who it is so easy to hate can always be turned on you by those in power.

Alfredo, that means that those of us subscribing to a viewpoint at odds with a borderline dictatorship can leave of in tha category of "misfits" who must be "taken care of" and maxanne, that was not a threat but a joke. You have a fondness for resorting to the personal attack. I haven't been on these boards in a while and it's taking me time to learn the names and I've learned alot about you in just one thread.

[maxanne]

59. oh,

I guess I must have missed the post where you apologized to me for the baseless accusation you made earlier - the one where you claimed I called you a hypocrite? I proved that to be incorrect, but you slithered away from that dialogue before you had to admit to the truth.

The fact is - YOU - not me- made the personal attack. When proven incorrect you failed to acknowlege. So, point your personal attack accusatory finger right in your own face. You're illustrating quite nicely the behavior you're accusing me of.

By the way - the old "I wasn't threatening, I was only joking" is a tired, tired defense. Have you been gone for a long time due to a banning, perhaps?

[alfredo]

61. what I was saying was

The priest and the other short-eyes knew what they were doing was wrong, and they knew if they were sent to prison they stood a good chance of getting killed. I do not condone the killing of the priest, but it was his actions that put him in that situation.

I knew you were half way kidding around, so I came back with some bluster. Maybe I should have used a smilie.

I've been on the outside since the early sixties, I know what it is like being a misfit. It has its downside, but its better than being a drone.

Edited to add something. Didn't like it once it was on the screen so I deleted it. So sue me.

[DoNotRefill]

71. So...

"The priest and the other short-eyes knew what they were doing was wrong, and they knew if they were sent to prison they stood a good chance of getting killed. I do not condone the killing of the priest, but it was his actions that put him in that situation."


I take it you generally support capital punishment?

After all, if child molesters know they risk being killed if caught, and their actions put them "in harm's way", why doesn't the same apply to Capital murderers?

[alfredo]

82. Capital punishment is state sponsored killing.

I do not want the government killing in my name. It is premeditated murder.

Everybody is responsible for their actions. The risks for the convicted pedophile are well known. His death did not serve justice. It saved him from years of fear and loneliness. He got off easy.

[DoNotRefill]

93. So...

by putting him in a situation where it was extremely likely that he would die, the Government shares no responsibility for what happened to him?

Reminds me of the guy who threw a person out of a plane. All he did was put him in a really dangerous situation. If the thrown guy had learned to fly on the way down, his life would have been saved. It's the same thing here. The government put this guy into a really dangerous situation, where it would have been a MIRACLE if he'd survived. As such, the Government is responsible.

[alfredo]

97. Sure, the prison may have

put him in solitary, but short of that, there is no way of keeping other prisoners away from him. It may have been a fellow short-eyes that killed him.

We don't know if he was killed because of what he did. He may have refused to have sex with the guy, or wised off. We don't know.

If there was a lapse of security, then the government should be held responsible. the ultimate responsibility for his death is with the person who killed him.

[kysrsoze]

100. Probably b/c they thought what they did was worth the risk, or.....

they just didn't care. Either way, if you can't do the time, don't do the crime. There is only one reason I am against the death penalty - a lot innocent people are put to death b/c they can't afford a lawyer. I still think some people deserve to die. I have thought, "Well, maybe it's better that they rot in prison forever and think about it." But really, why do these people like Ted Bundy or John Wayne Gacy deserve any kind of life to cherish? We put dogs to death for biting people (very wrong). While in prison, such people can eat, read, watch tv, work out, see the sun, talk to people - much better than death.

[dArKeR]

51. John Paul II - give me 1 reason why he should NOT be charged Assessory to

Pedophilia? Assessory to Murder for any killing a molested child had committed?

He has continued, supported, conspired with this policy!

A Culture of Lawlessness
The Catholic Church in America
http://www.quarterly-report.com/human_interest/pedophile_priests.html


Pedophiliac Priest Magazine
http://www.lostbrain.com/priestmag/


Confidential Vatican document, obtained by CBS News, lays out a church policy that calls for absolute secrecy when it comes to sexual abuse by priests - anyone who speaks out could be thrown out of the church.
The policy was written in 1962 by Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/08/06/eveningnews/main566978.shtml


Catholics React To Vatican Edict
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/08/08/eveningnews/main567456.shtml


The bishops' image was shaken further last week when former Oklahoma Gov. Frank Keating resigned as the review board's chairman amid strong criticism over his remarks comparing some church leaders to the Mafia.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/06/23/national/main559809.shtml

[Uzybone]

111. Excellent question

why are fingers not being pointed directly at the Vatican. They knew this problem exsisted and they enabled it.

[R Hickey]

60. Too bad. I feel injured by the Church and they didn't even molest me!

Priests and nuns spent a decade drilling dogma into my young head, trying to rob me of my common sense, and though I was not sexually molested, for some reason I still feel victimized.

Where can I go to get the years of my childhood that they wasted, back? Who can I sue and how much should I ask for? I mean, suppose that instead of all that religious training, that I had instead recieved golf lessons like what the young Tiger Woods got?

[alfredo]

62. You can't, but accept this fine toaster as a token of our

appreciation.

there is no getting it back. It sucks. There's not much we can do but try not to let it ruin the rest of our lives. surviving abuse, physical or emotional is not easy.

Stand tall, you survived.

[frustrated_lefty]

70. I feel neither remorse nor joy hearing of the man's death.

Child molestors are on par with rabid dogs, in my book. Perhaps they were molested in their own childhoods, perhaps they suffer from biochemical imbalances which might be pharmaceutically treated.

Whatever the rationale, it is an illness and it is an illness which cannot be permitted to spread.

[undergroundpanther]

77. rabid

We don't shake our heads when a rabid dog is put down, unless it's our beloved pet,even than we realize it's sick.


Human life to me isn't all that "sacred".People die,and I will die too,I know I will die without my own consent too.I will die when death comes to me not a moment sooner or later.I have no control so why pretend.So what.It's the other side of life.

What matters more than life is quality of life,how fully life is lived, how aware and consious a person can become in thier life. A person in constant pain because of a horrific illness or injury begging to die because thier quality of life is ruined,well they have the right to dieIMHO.Why torture them because society is so death phobic?.Unrepentant ignorance,and taking pleasure in that sick state is like an illness,it's harmful to everyone it touches like rabies.. and until a pedophile can be castrated or his sexual drive be limited or diverted away from kids by means that truly work,he is rabid. It is important to limit pedophiles sex drives because he will not limit it himself,and while people continue to balk at that idea,like it's "inhumane" wghat else is there , go ahead I say kill pedophiles because they are too sick to be trusted among vumnerable people. Would you trust a rabid dog with your kid? Why trust a rabid sexually obsessed human?

For those folks who like to say pedophilia is culturally created,yes it is.
Death phobic-youth obsessed,power lusting cultures tend to embrace the exploiitation of kids.Rome was not a culture I'd want to be part of.Greece for all it's democracy for the wealthy classes didn't understand slavery isn't democratic.These are not cultures to look to for fine examples of childrearing unless you are treying to normalize pedophilia..
As for pedophiles in the wild,weasels are one animal I know of that can get pregnant as infants,male weasels will enter a nest while the mother is gone getting food and rape the pups,the mother if she catches the male will kill him.Too bad humans are not as with it as mother weasels are when confronted by something as warped as pedophiles.And human babies can't get pregnant so the nature excuse isn't there.We can look to apes but apes aren't humans and every species has it's own ways of doing things and it don't always apply to us too.


A pedophile's life is a life wasted on a sickness they prefer to not stop they even refuse to aknowlege thier lust hurerts the kids they clainm to love..they have no empathy for kids even though they put on airs they do..And the worst part is pedophilia can spread ,into kids that turn into sick adults that molest morte kids.It's a generational /social disease like all abuse is. And it is as safe as rabies.

I think our culture is strangely pedo freindly..I mean look,girls nowadays,they get breasts and periods earlier than ever before because of the hormones in milk,Just compare school photos of older generations at the same ages,with school pictures taken at the same ages today..it's astonishing.
I think age of consent is important and when companies selling meat and milk are adding the hormones that effect sexual maturation in this mess creates kids emotionally unready for sex ,yet physically driven to have sex too early for thier psychology to cope is so tragic..and lines and boundaries get blurred in society .Orgasm and attraction isn't rational all the time and our culture intent on blurring boundaries of adult/child never helps anyone do the right thing and respect the mind and heart of a person when they are too focussed on the body.

Another thing to observe was porn magazines in the sixties -70's they would have the poitrait of the centerfold .In it was a snapshot in the corner of the centerfold woman as a child with a quote about herself.
Why put the child image with the adult sexual one what purpose would that have?
Normalizing pedophilia perhaps? Why do companies pay millions on ads and marketing? Maybe because it works pretty good at getting people branded and buying despite how much we like to think we are immune to it!

Minds aren't always rational in an orgasm.So acting responsibly before orgasm helps avert headaches later,things like safe sex or making sure it's ok(consent).

But magazines deliberately blurring distinctions of adult/child is irresponsible.IMHO the adult/child images could have become juxtaposed unconsiously in the minds of some porn users,and no one has really looked at why the child poitraits were put on the centerfolds in the first place and what effects it might have had,on psyches..Compounding this in the 70's mothers were stepping out to work and "latchkey kids" stayed at home.It's interesting to note how these trends coincide.


To me it would creep me out seeing a little girl's picture in the corner of the page of a sexually inviting picture. Didn't creep out Larry Flynt for some reason.
We as a culture of individuals that are interrelated do need to think about what we are so oblivious to sometimes and not pooh pooh the side effects slick manipulative marketing can have on masses of people's psychology especially when orgasm tends to blur things unconsiously and irrationally when fantasies step in for reality.

Also go to a local mall,look in the teenybop stores like hot topic,
notice they got pre pubescent kids buying shirts with statements like porn star emblazoned across it.Why?Why adverize yourself as a porn star when you are 11 years old? What "forces" in our culture made that kewel and why?


Is it any wonder people are confused?
Saintly aspirations aside, the few times I have argued with self confessed pedophiles online,they showed no remorse or empathy for kids while claiming they cared so much.They are manipulative assholes.
They blamed society for not accepting thier piccadilioes,and said they loved children but I noticed the "love" stops cold when it means sexual restraint,accountability and responsibility for pedophiles.And they will not even aknowlege what they do is harmful to others.They are rabid.

[LosinIt]

72. Karma

got him.

[DoNotRefill]

94. Karma...

had a huge helping hand. The government killed this man just as surely as if they stuck a needle in his arm and pushed the plunger.

[ima_sinnic]

76. what goes round, comes round

I neither rejoice nor grieve. We are all masters of our own fates. Now he is dealing with it on some other plane.

[Paschall]

79. No one should die in prison except from natural causes

This is no way an apology for Geoghan's crimes. But he was in state custody--meaning that the community at large was responsible for his welfare. And the community at large is responsible for this failure to protect him--protection to which all prisoners are entitled--and his death.

Any one of us could be imprisoned through a judicial error. None of us should have to risk harm or death in such a situation.

I find the indifference--and even glee--on this thread to what is a gross governmental dysfunction resulting in a death extremely shocking. This is how deeply the right-wing has instilled a culture of violence and death in the country. It's very, very sad to see these attitudes expressed by so-called progressives and liberals.

[undergroundpanther]

81. Paschall

Paschall

Yes it would be preferable not to kill pedophiles and that the state protect them and the people in jail be enlightened as to not desire to kill them.But in this world,what can you do? He was an adult.

Yes I'd love to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony....
But some people are dangerous.And they *LIKE* it and *get off* on the scene of being a monster.
It's tragic how we as a society have gotten too large and too symbolic and abstract in how we relate to one another to maintain safe communites,and sane social structures anymore.

What can you do when people get hurt and must rely on a systemic approach for personal injuries? And what if the system fails,or works too abstractly.
Is it more important to stop abuse or is it more important to promote a philospohy about it?

If a person has no concept of remorse wouldn't you say that person is dangerous? A bully? What if he cannot live among others who are not bullies without harming them?
One bully can destroy the peace of an entire group of people.One manipulating exploiter can cause chaos in any social mileu.
And the people that excuse this behavior around themselves and do nothing..are enablers.
Sometimes forgiveness and tolerance ends up being manipulated and trust is broken whern you trust exploiters of trust and goodwill. If it happens alot,and the trust breaker doesen't care we get a exploiter clique with a goodguy badge.Sometimes I think the human race is traumatized by the way we are forced live,it has an awful case of Stockholm syndrome..We identify with abusers too deeply..so far that abuse goes on,to those who have hurt no one .When an abuser gets hurt we rivet our attention to them,when a person is abused who hurt no one we rationalise on behalf of the bully,weep about the bullies childhood traumas,and we say shit to the victim like she wanted it,or why didn't they fight,or where were thier parents.When vunerable people suffer we turn away so easily.

Acting on the urge to abuse someone who isn't a bully is a choice.
Fighting against,speaking out against a bully or killing an abuser is a nessary evil to protect quality of life in any group situation..

Macrophages in the human immune system seek and destroy harmful bacteria and viruses,it keeps us healthy.
Likewise a society seems alot like an organism,it has a 'group mind'where it's ethical boundaries are drawn or re-drawn..in a social context And something needs to be done to contain the cruelties of socialized sociopaths,bullies and sexual exploiters who will not choose to stop harming people by themselves.

If a pedophile cannot survive within the kind of abusing ,exploiting degrading.."culture" he dishes out to other people who are vunerable,trusting or aren't bullies,than oh well.

Maybe on his death he realized he was a fool and an asshole.
I myself shed no tears for pedophiles and people who abuse people,and refuse to change thier own heart when they see the damage they've done..Hitting,belittling ,hurting,molesting,raping others that are not a threat..it's always a CHOICE to give up self restraint,and integrity as is remaining silent and doing nothing in the face of abuse..
A deliberate choice with a risk assesment,guilty coverup,excuses galore and denial is on both sides.

The crap an abuser does to excuse himself in the eyes of others looks just like the excuses for anything else anyone does to another person deliberately that is just wrong,when they don't care how wrong it is like lying to them or stealing from them ect..
Forgiving and "understanding"pedophiles will not stop them from doing thier hurtful things.You must stop them is the bottom line,they have broken trust.You must set boundaries,and if they cross them,take other measures to stop them.These people ruin people's lives for jollies. It's all because they refuse to stop themselves and develop empathy because it would destroy thier games.They only know games..get away with it or be punished so don't get caught.Pedophiles share tips with each other on exploiting kids and avoiding public or parental detection and wrath!That's how sick they are.Just because someone is dominated by a cruel fantasy or sick consious themselves gives them no right or excuse to dominate others.


The Entire police/prison/justice system was invented because certain people choose to abuse people and violate thier trust.A bully or pedophile is nothing but a pathological coward when it comes to honesty,introspection and self-control,his greed for his own satisfaction is all important.He loves nothing but making real his hurtful sadistic sick fantasy in his head.
And this confusion exists because too many people over-identify with abusers(because they too have violent thoughts) and believe they should be guilty for stopping them by any means.We all are responsible for each other's well being.That is why we don't just exploit one another at will.Some people don't want others to be well if it means discomfort or insignificance.

You can lead a horse to water...But it ain't anyone's fault but the horses' if he dies of thirst standing by the river.
I just hope more innocent people aren't hurt while the horses decide what they will do.Being aware of the desire some people have to exploit people and desiring to restrain them,even to the point of death isn't a conservative disease.It's sad reality.

To me conservatives act like socialized sociopaths with how they exploit while 1/2 of america identifies with them in the throes of Stockholm syndrome and the other half excuses them like enablers so they can feel saintly or something.I don't get it.

Some people ARE dangerous and choose to stay that way.

[DoNotRefill]

95. Oh PLEASE.

"Macrophages in the human immune system seek and destroy harmful bacteria and viruses,it keeps us healthy.
Likewise a society seems alot like an organism,it has a 'group mind'where it's ethical boundaries are drawn or re-drawn..in a social context And something needs to be done to contain the cruelties of socialized sociopaths,bullies and sexual exploiters who will not choose to stop harming people by themselves."

What a load of unadulterated bovine fecal matter.

This preist was not in a position to harm ANYBODY. He'd been taken from society, and put into a position where his life expectancy was considerably shorter due to his status.

"Extra-judicial" capital punishment is just as sick as "judicial" capital punishment, maybe even MORE so.

[undergroundpanther]

107. Oh please,

He and his church harmed people before he was imprisioned.That is the harm I was referring to.
A 60 year old man still can harm.
In jail yeah he was restricted.good.

[Paschall]

101. Can you please restate that in 25 words or less...

...(1) in a manner that makes sense and (2) addresses the content of my post? Thanks.

[RobinA]

98. Agree With This

No one should be murdered, raped, or anything else in prison. This sickens me. I don't care what the victim did, the fact that this happened in prison goes beyond the man's individual crimes.

[undergroundpanther]

109. Pithy for paschell

People will die in prision sometimes because prison is a violent culture for containing people who are violent,molestors,rapists ect.. The guards are human and have a hard time keeping order in a jail full of angry,sick, reacting anti-social people that need healing and may not want it,who have no well trained healers and not enough resources to get help they need.

In an ideal world molestors would see the error of thier ways and find other things like consenting adults to be attracted to.
But you can't force a person to not desire,only the person with the desire can stop desiring.If that desire harms vunerable people than people will react sometimes even years later to protect themselves,from the person with that desire.Mental illness makes it all the more tragic and confusing.And America as a nation is losing it's sanity as well.

Pedophiles may provoke people who have been abused before who are in jail in an abusive environment to react violently.Child abuse by adults and peers is a severe social problem that creates problems that seem unrelated on the surface..

In reality you can't keep absolute control over an overcrowded prison full of violent people interacting with various problems unless everyone is on a leash with 24/7 supervision,and with guards that care enough to watch and even then where there's a will there is a way. In our economy driven ,barely democratic,socially unequal,power oriented culture the question is always who's gonna pay for it? Ceo's won't invest in change unless it can turn them a profit. Death in prison is an intricate personal,political,economic,systemic and cultural problem.
It needs more deep thought exploration than pithy quips can provide.

[noiretextatique]

90. i do not feel sympathy for this man

and i do believe his actions lead to his ultimate demise.
his actions put him in prison in the first place.
however, it is disturbing that he was not given protection in prison because death is the easy way out for him. i would much prefer that he spend the rest of his life contemplating how his actions hurt other people.
i do not support state-sanctioned murder of any kind.

[Sinistrous]

103. Those of you who gloat over Geoghan's murder disgust me.

Worse because I like to think that DU is a voice for reason and civility, but the gloating in this thread over this murder represent the basest of emotions.

What I have read here is a most primitive form of blood lust. Adherence to progressive or liberal viewpoints implies that a person has evolved past such reactions.

Claiming liberalism and wallowing in blood lust is hypocritical.

What Geoghan did was hideous, but his punisment was decided to be ten years in the hellhole of a state prison, not execution.

[Rich Hunt]

106. thank you

You've expressed exactly what I've been thinking.

Some of these people would have enjoyed living in ancient Rome - the ex-priest's murderer was in prison because he had murdered someone. That's fine for us, though - after all, he didn't murder a child (most likely). A pity it could not be broadcast on pay-per-view. How lovely that we have such thugs to do our dirty work for us.

"Liberalism" in the United States no longer has any meaning, because in the United States, "liberalism" is utterly divorced from any traditionally liberal notions about humane treatment of prisoners. Forget about the search for greater understanding that was always a part of philosophic liberalism. When self-congratulatory, self-described "liberals" revel in our punishment model of solving problems, I can no longer call myself "liberal". I want to understand why people do horrible things.

I saw this exact bullshit on the rape threads a few weeks ago. Most nauseating are the people who assume that *real* liberals know nothing of rape or child sexual abuse - one person on this thread even implied that someone didn't love their children enough. what's ironic is that the actual victims usually take no pleasure in this sort of thing, but what's a little paternalism among liberals?

Maybe those people should really examine their "liberalism" and ask them what they've really done for children's welfare lately. Funny how the topic only seems to come up when it's time to feel indignant and dole out vengeance. That explains the dearth of threads about child poverty and other widespread forms of child abuse.

I sometimes think we are treating children's welfare like a political football without really helping children at all. Because really standing up for children's rights might mean doing difficult things like confronting mommies and daddies and politicians and institutions and economic equalities - all of whom hurt children and get away with it. Like this man's death is going to change any of that.

:puke:

[Gigi]

104. Geoghan

This is so disgusting and disturbing. Geoghan was enabled by the
archdiocese and the Vatican so he probably couldn't understand why
he had to go to prison. I'm not sure sending an old man to a prison
where he cannot be protected was the right course of action. It was
just a matter of time before another inmate killed him. Geoghan's actions were horrible but he didn't deserve to die. I hope his victims and their families do not take any delight in his murder because it will never bring them peace if they do. God grant everybody peace!