Authenticity backed on Bush documents (FINALLY!)

[stickdog]

What do we have here? Some actual JOURNALISM instead of a purely tit-for-tat-he said-she said spinfest? Who'd have thunk it!

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/09/11/authenticity_backed_on_bush_documents/

Authenticity backed on Bush documents

By Francie Latour and Michael Rezendes, Globe Staff | September 11, 2004

After CBS News on Wednesday trumpeted newly discovered documents that referred to a 1973 effort to ''sugar coat" President Bush's service record in the Texas Air National Guard, the network almost immediately faced charges that the documents were forgeries, with typography that was not available on typewriters used at that time. But specialists interviewed by the Globe and some other news organizations say the specialized characters used in the documents, and the type format, were common to electric typewriters in wide use in the early 1970s, when Bush was a first lieutenant.

Philip D. Bouffard, a forensic document examiner in Ohio who has analyzed typewritten samples for 30 years, had expressed suspicions about the documents in an interview with the New York Times published Thursday, one in a wave of similar media reports. But Bouffard told the Globe yesterday that after further study, he now believes the documents could have been prepared on an IBM Selectric Composer typewriter available at the time.

Analysts who have examined the documents focus on several facets of their typography, among them the use of a curved apostrophe, a raised, or superscript, ''th," and the proportional spacing between the characters -- spacing which varies with the width of the letters. In older typewriters, each letter was alloted the same space.

Those who doubt the documents say those typographical elements would not have been commonly available at the time of Bush's service. But such characters were common features on electric typewriters of that era, the Globe determined through interviews with specialists and examination of documents from the period. In fact, one such raised ''th," used to describe a Guard unit, the 187th, appears in a document in Bush's official record that the White House made public earlier this year.

[PinkTiger]

1. But they were commonly available.

I was in the Army in 1969-73, and I used an IBM selectric that had interchangeable type balls, with the raised "th" and other superscript abilities. I'm not sure about the proportional spacing; but the type looked as good as a computer's type today does.

[Hekate]

21. Anyone who needed to do specialized typing had those "golf balls"

Knowing how to pop them on and off rapidly and keep going from words to complex symbols and back again was a real skill -- university secretaries in science departments, thesis and dissertation typists -- this was all long before there were PCs and Macs on every desk. The Selectric made it possible, even if not exactly easy. (To this day I wish my computer keyboard was as ergonomic as the Selectric's layout. It was a beautiful piece of equipment, and I only ever used it for straight text.)

The point is that *any* office would have had access to a couple of variations on the basic ball, even if they didn't need the specialized ones. I'm glad to hear they had one with superscripts -- it helps support Dan Rather's case.

Kudos to Rather and CBS News. I am impressed with their guts -- which they are going to need in the days ahead, as the smear machine gears up to sling more slime at anyone who dast question Our Dear Leader.

Hekate

[yellerpup]

25. In 1968 I worked on an IBM executive model typewriter

that had both superscript and proportional spacing. I worked for an engineering company that did busness with the US government and with Saudi Arabia. My husband was drafted into the Army that February and I wrote many letters and much poetry to him on that machine. If IBM was providing the military with Selectrics for clerks, I wouldn't be surprised if they also provided Executive models to commanders.

[mbperrin]

51. Thanks for bringing up the Executive, yellerpup!

I believe that this is an Executive Model B,
which I have typed hundreds of hours on, making brochures, handouts and posters for student groups at Texas A&M in the early 70's.

The th superscript is on its own key, types as one unit, centering is indeed easy (and quite mechanically exact, because we were stripping those typed words up to be made into printing plates for a Multilith 1250 Offset press), and just never had a problem.

Thank you for bringing up the Executive!A GREAT machine, and very readily available and affordable for memos for banks, schools, and yes, even Guard units!

I'm looking for one right now just to prove it.

[ElectroPrincess]

32. I second that assertion Pinky T ! <tease>

Just a little less um mature than you, I used an IBM Selectric typewriter in my High School typing class in the suburbs (yes we have um too :P) of Omaha, NE, during 1973.

Damn, these right wing radicals are one pathetic lot. I'm so pissed at myself for hating Nixon during the 70s. Nixon at least had enough integrity (after pressure from fellow Republicans with a spine) to RESIGN. Really, he could have dragged out the whole situation and called in some favors to survive impeachment, but I believe, deep down Richard Nixon had a soul and knew his actions were wrong.

George W. Bush? He has IMHO no soul NOR integrity ... he represents the seemingly endless parade of leaders within the Bush family dynasty. They do not love their fellow man and all they worship is the the acquisition of power and wealth. I wish middle class Republicans would wake up to the fact that Bush is NOT one of them. Bush is a heartless neo-conservative in every sense of the term, not my Father's Republican.

[Demoiselle]

34. Correct on all counts, Princess...

I too find it harder to hate Nixon these days. Poor bastard. He had brains. If only his own paranoia hadn't brought him down.

[indypaul]

54. That and quite a bit of

old "John Barleycorn."

[Kenergy]

46. Beautiful post Electro !!!

[calimary]

53. Anyone who might even be old enough to have done any serious

professional typing in offices or what used to be called "typing pools" or "steno pools" in the late '60's and/or early '70's is beyond the age of MOST of the reporters squawking about this now. From most of the fun folks on the Pox "news" network to Dana Milbank of the Washington Post (another illustrious professional who didn't do much more on the story for his own paper but repeat and embellish upon the phony allegations. One of them even referred to that unimpeachable attribution: "...everybody says..."

They all appear to be in their 20's, 30's and 40's. They're talking about office equipment from 30 - 35 YEARS AGO. Back then, you didn't get into a position where you would be typing with an IBM Selectric II or such machines that used those interchangeable balls - unless you were old enough to be working in a good office where there were enough company resources to equip secretaries and professional assistants and receptionists with the nice, fancy typewriters. OR, perhaps, that there was enough serious writing going on, or serious investment in a good student, that you'd have that sort of typewriter available. There's no way they can speak with authority on knowing how those typewriters worked and what their output looked like. At least some of them, I'd suspect, may not even have seen such a typewriter. Who do you know - who has one today?

Amazing.

[qazplm]

2. thats a start

but there needs to be a LOT more of it.

[LynnTheDem]

3. poor rightwingnuts

The SAME EXPERT they were touting yesterday as their "proof" of forgeries, now says gee after actually looking into it...

Sigh.

They are not forgeries.

Think the media will EVER get round to discussing the actual issue of bush's desertion?

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. CBS may, dan rather seemed to have gotten

both a Nad and spine transplant today.. but don't count on it... after all GE can be told no more contracts for you no more for them Nuke Sub reactors, never mind that we are not expanding the fleet

[Sparky McGruff]

11. Wrong conglomerate

GE owns NBC.

CBS is viacom. No defense contracts that I'm aware of. They do own MTV, so perhaps the feds can crack down on "the real world" house, and arrest them for violating federal stupidity laws.

[kayell]

35. This administration can't start enforcing federal stupidity laws

or they would obviously have to give georgie boy a life sentance as a repeat offender with no possibility of rehabilitation.

[0007]

22. Yes, I believe the media will get around to discussing and

exposing junior. It is lining up the ducks. The have the nuts on the White House. The next question will be why junior wasn't fit to fly and why junior didn't take the flight examination.

.....and that community service in Houston with P.U.L.L. will soon come to light again. Hang on! Rather is gonna land this sucker.

It coming folks!

[Just Me]

52. Geez,...I hope you are right.

I have been very disappointed to date.

I only force myself to take a gander at mainstream news these days to evaluate inaccuracies.

Unbelievable.

[aquart]

4. Sweet.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. ok, ok now what will teh righties do?

[Norquist Nemesis]

16. They've already started the assault on Staudt. n/t

[kennetha]

6. I love this quote

"...In the Times interview, Bouffard had also questioned whether the military would have used the Composer, a large machine. But Bouffard yesterday provided a document indicating that as early as April 1969 -- three years before the dates of the CBS memos -- the Air Force had completed service testing for the Composer, possibly in preparation for purchasing the typewriters.


As for the raised ''th" that appears in the Bush memos -- to refer, for example, to units such as the 111th Fighter Interceptor Squadron -- Bouffard said that custom characters on the Composer's metal typehead ball were available in the 1970s, and that the military could have ordered such custom balls from IBM."

It's amazing how breathless this thing has gotten. The media is losing all credibility.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. LOOOSSSSING? How about LOOSSTTTT

[alittlelark]

8. Soooo can I go to sleep now?

Really, can I?

[LynnTheDem]

10. Meanwhile...

American citizens and Iraqi citizens just keep dying.

But hey, who gives a fuck, right???

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. Here is how this is related to today

the boy never paid the consequences and started to lie and get away with things 30 years ago.... and it has not stopped to this day.

Now how relevant is this to today? As somebody else pointed out earlier in the eveneing. KURT WALDHEIM... this reveals the true nature of Bush's character and how he is willing to cheat and lie to avoid paying the price.

Oh and to those young gurdsmen and woemn o'er there, paying the price? YOU THINK they could pull that stunt and NOT be court martialed?

Bush should have been activated, the common penalty at the time, he was not... troops today will resent this once it registers.

[AZCat]

12. Will the media now turn the same skeptical eye..

...to Bush's explanations of why he didn't take the physical?

Or have they expended their energies, and will now slump back in Laci/Kobi mode?


That's all I want, is for someone to confront that bastard about why he didn't take the frickin' physical and not take one of his non-answers as an answer.

[stickdog]

14. Yep, they really got to the bottom of this complete non-issue!

Thank God for whoreporate media and their constant he-said-she-said spinfests even in the face of objectively verifiable facts!

[AZCat]

18. I guess you can't run a dictatorship without...

...a bunch of people covering your ass all the time. Facts? Those don't belong on cable television (although NPR sure has a deficit of them also).

This is why DU is so important - if the 'real' media isn't doing their job, we need to provide a source for news ourselves. Even with all the trolls, this site seems to get to the heart of issues that take the media YEARS to tackle.

[Prodemsouth]

24. DU is good and it is needed and I support it and others should support

I do and will continue to. But DU does not have a filter on closet Freepers and Defeatist elitist. If you are trying to stay pumped for the election it may not be a bad idea to avoid it and Smirking Chimp and others till after the election. In fact I am thinking of doing just that. I was surprised at the amount of people claiming these could be forgeries here. Of course it was the usual defeatist elitist and people that I feel should have been tomb stoned long ago. Truthout emails can filter this bullshit out.

[LynnTheDem]

15. bush lies that

it was coz he wouldn't be flying the F-102, as the military wasn't using F-102s any longer.

Which, of course, is just one of many of bush's total LIES; the F-102 was in active service for several years AFTER bush officially left the TANG.

Just like bush lies he "flew with my unit for several years" when in FACT bush was permanently grounded 1.5 years after his training.

Just like bush lies he was "in the US Air Force".

Just like bush lied "there is no doubt".

Et fucking cetera.

[AZCat]

19. "...bush was permanently grounded 1.5 years after his training."

His million-dollar training, don't forget. Pretty crappy return on an investment for the American taxpayer, I'd say. And he did with it the same thing he did with the Clinton surplus - he threw it away, and then lied about it.

[allemand]

17. So we were right about the Selectric Composer. Nice.

I wonder if Bouffard already identified the typeface that was used.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x782122

[indie_voter]

28. If it weren't for DU and blogs like dKos

This story would have taken a different turn.

Make no mistake, you guys who researched, posted links, and had first hand knowledge of the matters at hand were instrumental in this.

For example, the catch of the other document with used a superscript "th".

Bravo folks, you are keeping the dreams of our founding fathers alive!

[Kenergy]

47. Yes Indie and DU'ers!!!

The Spirit of '76 is still alive and well!!!

[Judi Lynn]

20. CBS, Rather stand firm on Bush story as furor swells (Baltimore Sun)

CBS, Rather stand firm on Bush story as furor swells
Critics call into question cited memos' authenticity


By David Folkenflik
Sun Staff
Originally published September 11, 2004


CBS anchor Dan Rather vigorously defended yesterday his reliance on memos that appeared to show President Bush avoided fulfilling his service obligations as a lieutenant in the Air National Guard in the early 1970s, even as a controversy intensified over the authenticity of those documents.

The original report, broadcast on Wednesday's edition of 60 Minutes, sparked a near-immediate backlash on conservative Web sites and radio programs. Forensic experts subsequently interviewed by other news outlets - including The Washington Post, the Los Angeles Times, the Associated Press and NBC News, among others - questioned the authenticity of the documents, pointing to typeface and spacing features more consistent with modern computer word-processing programs than IBM typewriters of the era. Also, the family members of the squad leader who reportedly wrote the memos and who died two decades ago denounced the story, saying they did not believe the memos are genuine.

"The 60 Minutes report was based not solely on the recovered documents but on a preponderance of evidence, including documents that were provided by unimpeachable sources, and interviews with former officials of the Texas National Guard," Rather said during a six-minute story on the CBS Evening News last night. "If any definitive evidence to the contrary of our story is found, we will report it."

The Dallas Morning News is reporting today that an official named in one of the disputed memos for pressuring an officer to "sugar coat" Bush's military evaluation apparently left the National Guard more than a year before the memo was supposedly written. Late last night, a CBS News spokeswoman said the network did not have a direct response to that development. "We stand by our story," said the spokeswoman, Kelli Edwards.

CBS fought challenges directly through the day, as Rather defended the 60 Minutes piece, first on CNN and again on his newscast. Additionally, the network issued statements that explicitly rejected Internet reports, on such sites as the Drudge Report, that it had launched an internal inquiry into the veracity of its account. Instead, during his newscast, Rather portrayed the criticism as "counterattacks" fueled in part by "partisan political operatives" seeking to distract attention from the wider foundation of his story. Although producer Mary Mapes had reported much of the story, Rather served as the on-air correspondent for the 60 Minutes report, and he conducted the interviews that appeared. No dissenting voices were heard in last night's newscast, though Rather summarized several objections.
(snip/...)

http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/tv/bal-te.to.cbs11sep11,1,1075256.story?coll=bal-artslife-tv

[0007]

23. CBS News Report Debunking Forgery - Video Online Now

http://BushLies2.Us/video/wmv/bush_awol_cbs.wmv

Right click the link above to save.

http://bushlies2.us/

[Judi Lynn]

45. Thanks for leaving this link! There's a DU'er here who lives in Florida

who just said today at another location that her electricity was off in the last storm and her cable, and she missed the show altogether.

This will be interesting to her! (Guajira)

[seemslikeadream]

26. Further scrutiny lessens doubts on Bush memos

Further scrutiny lessens doubts on Bush memos
Some skeptics now say IBM typewriter could have been used

Francie Latour, Michael Rezendes, Boston Globe
Saturday, September 11, 2004

After CBS News trumpeted newly discovered documents Wednesday that referred to a 1973 effort to "sugar coat" President Bush's service record in the Texas Air National Guard, the network almost immediately faced charges that the memos were forgeries with typography that was not available on typewriters used at that time.

But specialists interviewed by the Globe and some other news organizations say the specialized characters used in the documents, and the type format, were common to electric typewriters in wide use in the early 1970s, when Bush was a first lieutenant.

Philip Bouffard, a forensic document examiner in Ohio who has analyzed typewritten samples for 30 years, had expressed suspicions about the documents in an interview with the New York Times, one in a wave of similar media reports. But Bouffard told the Globe Friday that after further study, he now believed the documents could have been prepared on an IBM Selectric Composer typewriter available at the time.

Analysts who have examined the documents focus on several facets of their typography, among them the use of a curved apostrophe, a raised, or superscript, "th," and the proportional spacing between the characters -- spacing that varies with the width of the letters. In older typewriters, each letter was allotted the same space.

more
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/09/11/MNGO68NEKR1.DTL

[Catfight]

27. Condi to come choreographed with McSmellen and tell everyone Bush

was honorably discharged. Then she and the zombies break into that sound we all know.....Bahaaabahhabahhabhaahbahhha. Sheep's being lead off the cliff.

[rawstory]

29. kick

[derby378]

30. Hallelujah!

Bush is sooooo toasted now...

[Red Fox]

31. If you ask me

The WH will try to do their best to make sure that these are not forgeries, regardless of whether they are or not (doubtful).

If this memo is real, they could just attack the messenger, being stressed, high pressure from personal affairs, confused whatever. They could weasel their way out of this one (so far he's been AWOL/deserted based on his records, a minor thing like this is nothing to that squeeling pig).

But how are they going to weasel their way out of the fact that they released forgeries?

Did they check? Still forgeries? That means imcompetence.
Didn't they check? That means huge incompetence.

CBS didn't hold a gun to their head to release the documents, they're responsible for what they release, and they won't be able to weasel themselves out of this one no matter what. It's a win win situation for CBS/us no matter how you slice it.

[Terran]

33. Time to demand publicy that Bush address the issues raised!

Kerry and Edwards should call a press conference for Monday, and state that failure to explain these issues is the same as admitting that Bush was absent without leave and disobeyed a direct order. And then state, "this is the last this campaign will have to say on the subject of any candidate's military service. It's time BOTH of us talked about issues people care about!"

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[goodboy]

37. kick...why isn't this on the network news yet??? eom

[goodboy]

38. Kick...Why isn't this on the national news yet??? eom

[Desron]

39. Does Dr. Bouffard have a different stroy?

I have no idea if the site is legit but Dr. Bouffard doesn't seem to be a happy man in the article.

http://www.indcjournal.com/archives/000859.php

[rawstory]

43. a rekick.

The Globe, in a surprise to me, is being surprisingly fair.

[Dr Fate]

40. Bush needs to have a press conference and answer the questions himself.

That's the easiest way to clear all this up- just tell the press which things in the Docs are true and which parts he thinks are not true.

[Yupster]

41. Press Conference?

Leaders don't have press conferences any more. None of them.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dr Fate]

49. I cant take your word for it. I'd rather hear Bush say these things.

If the charges against Bush are false, then he can say which ones are false and which ones he thinks are not.

Problem is, Bush wont do that, because he is hiding somthing.

Does Occam's Razor explain why Bush is afraid to answer tough questions?

[Dr Fate]

50. These experts disagree- (I provide links, unlike some)

Subject:

Philip Bouffard, a forensic document examiner in Ohio who has analyzed typewritten samples for 30 years, had expressed suspicions about the documents in an interview with the New York Times, one in a wave of similar media reports. But Bouffard told the Globe Friday that after further study, he now believed the documents could have been prepared on an IBM Selectric Composer typewriter available at the time.

Bouffard, the Ohio document specialist, said that he had first dismissed the Bush documents because the letters and formatting of the memos did not match any of the 4,000 samples in his database. But Friday, Bouffard said that he had not considered the IBM Selectric Composer. Once he compared the memos to Selectric Composer samples, Bouffard said, his view shifted.

In the Times interview, Bouffard had also questioned whether the military would have used the Composer, a large machine. But Friday he provided a document indicating that as early as April 1969 the Air Force had completed service testing for the Composer, possibly in preparation for purchasing the typewriters.

Those who doubt the documents say those typographical elements would not have been commonly available at the time of Bush's service. But such characters were common features on electric typewriters of that era, the Globe determined through interviews with specialists and examination of documents from the period. In fact, one such raised "th," used to describe a Guard unit, the 187th, appears in a document in Bush's official record the White House made public this year.



http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/200 ...

[johnnyrocket]

42. I admit, it was curious, the MS Word comparisons

are/were intriguing. Definitive proof that these are legit documents would be a fascinating turn of events, but there just seems to be a overall curious nature as to why the document show up out of the blue. It's just strange.

Maybe, as they say, this IS stranger than fiction.

[stevielizard]

44. if Francie Latour is about 34 and African-American...

then we went to high school together. She was the smartest person in the class. Edited to include- she may not have been the smartest, but she was by far the most prepared for class- if this is the same person, I have no doubt that she did her research.