Israel Defense Chief Warns World On Iran

[lovuian]

http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/?sid=e76b4d61a36a8ce3

Israel Defense Chief Warns World On Iran
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Big News Network.com Monday 13th September, 2004

Israel's top soldier indicated Israel would consider what to do about Iran's nuclear program unless the world stops it.

Responding to a question at an international conference on Terrorism's Global Impact, organized by the International Policy Institute on Counter-Terrorism in Herzliya, north of Tel Aviv, Lt. Gen. Moshe Ya'alon, Chief of General Staff, said Iran's capabilities are "not just Israel's challenge."

more....

I got the feeling Israel wants US to bomb Iran

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Ok Israel does not run our foreign policy

but here is how this is getting out of hand

Israel has declared the right to attack Iran preemtively

Iran has declared the right to attack Iran or US preemtively

We have declared the right to attack Iran (or any other evildoers) preeemtively

Russia has declared the right to attack any terrorist preemtively

Oh and just for fun, N. Korea also declared the right to attack us preemtively

One false sneeze, can we say WW III?

Guns of August, this is what this reminds me off, Barbra Tuchman's book goes back to WWI

[shraby]

2. Israel has been running our foreign policy

through the neocons and the AIPAC. That's what they are all being investigated for by the FBI.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. No they are being investigated for spying on us

and giving away intel which is NOT the same thing, by the way, by this logic the Russians ran our affairs after a certain Warrant Officer gave the Russians all our Submarine communication codes in the 1980s

Now have they commited treason, AIPAC and Neo Cons, lets the investigation end and a court of law convict them, as much as I hate traitors, we are still in the US and they are presumed innocent until found guilty... you DO understand this, don't you?

[Gyre]

7. Sorry, you're wrong

The FBI investigation is going nowhere because the Israeli government's got it's tendrils too deep into our government to risk any real exposure. If the people of this country realized on how many levels Israel was calling the shots in terms of US foreign policy in the middle east there would be hell to pay.

As long as you've got an administration that's as sympathetic to Israel as this one, nobody's really going to get hurt by selling or giving US military secrets to the Israelis. It is, after all, the US Dept of Justice that decides whether to charge a case or not at the Federal level, not the FBI.

Remember the USS Liberty.

Gyre

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Yeah right a third rate miltiary power

controls the affairs of state of a superpower

And yes Israel is a third rate military power

I know people do not want to face this, but BushCo did this because of the Oil industry and are far more beholding to oh Saudi Arabia... what we are facing right now is due to Prince Sultan Air Base... and how Reagan Bush played both sides...

If you think the Bushies would not throw Israel to the wolves if this truly helped secure the ME, I have a bridge to sell you

Nope, what they are practicing is divide the enemy...

But I know that you are convinced the Israelis control our foreign affairs, they don't we just have common interests at times... and at this time, this is a very dangerous common interest, as it could lead to a very hot NUCLEAR war.

Oh and my personal opinion about both Palestinian and Israeli current leadership, to the Hague with both...

[madrchsod]

12. the idf is not a third rate military power.

they have just as advanced weapon systems as anyone in the world. they have a weak navy at present but the new german boats will put them ahead of everyone in the middle east, they also have nukes....

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Compare them to any NATO nation

or the US and even Russia... when you compare their capabiliteis which make htem a FEARSOME REGIONAL POWER with oh the firepower at the disposal of France and the UK (who follow the US in capabilities) they are third rate... now to the US they are well behind us

What they have is superior training and technology that placdes them ahead of most, if not all their neighboors (probably to the par technology wise if transfers from NATO work) to Turkey, but better personnel...

That said, they are well behind us and the Western Allies... so yes they have 100 nuclear weapons, compare that to the arsenals in the UK, and France, let alone Ours and the former USSR...or the ability to project that power... even with the four German diesel electrics they have... they have been trying to get their hands on some of our older LA Class for a reason, and if they were dictating our foreign policy care to explain why we have NOT sold them an LA Class yet?


Now being third rate military power does not mean they are not to be feared by neighboros, or that some units, such as the Seventh Armor Brigade could not give us a run for our money, they have in simulators, but that does not mean they are anything beyond a REGIONAL power...

Now NATO has world wide reach capabitlies, including Nuclear weapons, and Carrier based operations, Israel has Regional capabilities.

That also means that most powers in the middle east are fourth and fifth rate powers...

Hope this clarifies this for you

[oldhat]

14. Third Rate

LOL, I dare you to walk up to any "third rate" Israeli commando and tell him or her how "third rate" he or she is. Then you could have all of your teeth knocked out by a "third rate" uppercut to your jaw.

BTW, "third rate" military powers don't have hydrogen bombs. Israel does.

[Eloriel]

15. Yeah, if they're "third rate" -- just who the hell is 2nd rate?

Israelis are BIG TIME arms dealers. It's my understanding most of the world's arms sales go THRU Israel one way or another. It's also hard for me to imagine any technology that they couldn't have (or get) for the asking.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. NATO

By the way IMI has become such an industry due to our own making and refusing to sell or provide weapons

[The_Casual_Observer]

17. Nobody bothers with punches

when they get enough of them together in one spot, somebody sets off a bomb.

[leesa]

44. They are about to get their fifth nuclear submarine, they have 200

nuclear weapons pointed at ALL of their neighbors. Third rate, my ass! And WE paid for it all.

[lovuian]

5. I'll add America has violated Iran's airspace with Airplanes

recently

Ya get the feeling North Korea and Iran who both know they are axis of Evil are getting ready for a fight...

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Yes free clue

Iran has the second largest reserve of oil

Suffice it to say I doubt bushie boy will be stupid enough to do it before the election and the Russians have recently come side by side wtih the Iranians.

Need I need to mention the Turkish, Syrian, Iranian alliance that was spokne off about oh six months ago?

Things are not as simple as you may think, but one wrong sneeze we may see a nice heating up of this war and clearly into WW III... didn't wooseley warn us of this?

Can you say RESOURCE WAR and this is over oil AND Water

[lovuian]

8. North Korea and Pakistan would side with them and then throw in

China

and that would make one heck of a powerful alliance

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Ok poltiics is not your strong suit, is it

China and N.Korea would not get in bed together right now as Pyonyang is truly paranoid of Beijing.

Now Afghanistan (as soon as Musharaff goes) will side with Iran, for relgious reasons, but China and N.Korea do not trust Iran...

There are many reasons for this... and regional power plays and struggles come to mind. Now if both Israel and Iran go into MAD mode, that will actually lead to a cold war, but maybe in the long run stabilty... problem is for MAD to work both have to have enough toys and be willing to carry on the threat and have enough survive a first strike. Study the dynamics between the US and the USSR for an example of what I mean

[REVOLT823]

13. Plus,

China will notget involved with thisfor the simplefact that they are making a boat load ofmoney off our trading relationship. They are notgoing to sacrifice that to help out the N. Koreans.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. :-)

Correct

[lovuian]

22. Have you guys heard of Tawain

China wants Taiwan in a Big way

Don't think if US is busy fighting a WWIII that China is going to sit back and cheer for us

OH PLEASE!!!

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. Oh taiwan is now on the to be retaken provinces

and how does this exactly relate to an alliance with Iran, which they do not find apealing... by the way, you are aware who sold them their advance radar, don't you?

[Geo55]

9. Nah...

We already CONTROL the second largest (one guess only)....
but Iran DOES have black gold in abundance.

[Djinn]

3. dear israel

if you wish to put the lives of your people and all Iranians in danger (not to mention the people of the entire region should this little adventure between a nuclear and almost or possibly already nuclear power) then please do so completely on your own.

[Eloriel]

16. I'm so upset about this sabre-rattling and beating the drums of war

over Iran. One or two stories a week about how horrible Iran is. Pointing to the need for a regime change. It's clear as day the path this is leading us on.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. In that we all agree

PNAC at work...

That said I doubt bushie will try before the election, he would need a draft, but win or loose I'd be concerned by November 3rd, Remember Somalia happened on Poppy's watch (and there were valid reasons by the way), but that mess was left for Clinton to clean up, You think Junior will not leave a far messier thing for Kerry to pick up?

[Eloriel]

35. No, what I'm far more worried about is

that there will be some sort of provoked attack from Iran (or perhaps other incident) and we will be "forced to respond" of course, possibly before the election. Further, these people lie even when they don't have to (the Bushies, not the Iranians), so no matter what or when, it'll take us time to sort things out.

For example, I just opened this little number, also in LBN (but haven't read it yet):

Time for Diplomacy Runs Out in Iran
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x823166

Tehran and Washington are headed for confrontation as the UN meets to discuss Iran's nuclear program: The US wants to take the issue to the Security Council while Europe lobbies for more diplomacy.

-- more --

Disgusting.

[lovuian]

23. I can tell ya one thing Iran will NOT dismantle their Nukes

like Saddam

they are not stupid they saw what happens when you let them come in and do that

[anarchy1999]

24. I'm so very tired of this all. Israel has a grip on this nation that is

helping to fuel the fires of hatred around the world. For heaven's sake people, wake up. Just google Ariel Sharon and see what you come up with. It's frightening, he's the Israeli equal of our very own Kissinger and then some.

Here's a must read for everyone and then go do some homework on the mid-east, late 1800's is a good place to start and go forward. Don't go all the way back to the Crusades and the real history, you might get really bogged down and confused.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/results.asp?userid=pB5jJY2AiS&ath=Paul+Findley

They Dare to Speak out: People and Institutions Confront Israel's Lobby
Paul Findley

Silent No More: Confronting America's False Images of Islam
Paul Findley



The Significance of Paul Findley
An American Politician and Author who
opened doors to justice and fairness in this country

What Paul Findley Means to Me
By Ray Hanania

Paul Findley's book, They Dare to Speak Out, was a major influence in my life.

The book tells the story of Findley's struggle as an American. He served in the US Congress for 22 years, always representing the best interests of his Springfield, Illinois based congressional district with distinction and honor.

But it was his strong feelings of fairness, and his refusal to bow to the pressure of the terrible Israeli lobby in Washington, that made him a target of haters in this country and cost him his re-election bid. In fact, his efforts were always dedicated to the peace process, and brining peace to the war-ravaged Middle East.

It was his meeting in 1978 with PLO Chairman Yasir Arafat that began the campaign that saw his eventual ouster from congress by an opponent, Dick Durbin, who used his ties to fanatic members of the country's pro-Israeli lobby and their unending "dirty money" funds, to win. Durbin later became Illinois' US Senator, waffling between often hypocritical roles in his defense of Israel.

For the rest of above essay about Paul Findley go to:

http://www.hanania.com/pfindley.htm


My request, absolutely no anti-semitism remarks allowed or I will ask the mods to shut it down. For information only, no flames please.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. Yes Arien Sharon belongs at the Hague

TOGETHER with Arafat, but if they were dictating our policy, again why have we not sold them LA Class subs? They want them, for good reasons mind you

Why are they helpign the Kurds?

Why did they sell the Chinese advance Weapons and Radar systems?

I could go on, allies who CONTROL what we do don't do that.

There are some policies that fit our objectives and theirs like a glove, but you know what, under the current administration the Saudis and Prince Bandar Bush have far more influence (Redacted 9.11 documents) than the Israelis do.

Do we (and they) have some traitors who have betrayed both us and them? Absolutely, does Sharon belong in the Hague (with Kissinger incidentally) absolutely, but they do not control our foreign policy.

It is time to take responsibilty for the cluster we have made, and don't blame it on an external power. You say you do not want antisemitism, agreed, but when you look at things like the House of Bush and the House of Saud and other documents (as well as redacted 9.11 documents) you realize that the House of Saud has at present far greater influence on our foreign policy than Israel... notice I have not said that either of them control the US.. for neither does... I just said have influence.

So time we take responsibitly... and stop blaming outside actors for this mess.

[anarchy1999]

27. Take a look at the books I linked to and then if you want to really take

it back, look into the House of Saud, go all the way back to the beginning. Some things just make you go, hmmmm.......

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. Yes and we have been involved in the ME since the late 1930s

by the way, our first agreement with a regional power was with Saudi Arabia, and that was FDR... in case you wonder.

Point is, it is high time people in this country take responsibilty for the actions of their own government... it is high time

Part of what is going on right now is part two of Iran Contra, with the same bloody actors playing everybody... or you are telling me that Israel (or for that matter Saudi Arabia) controlled our actions in Central America?

We have seeded white the winds, we will reap quite the whirlwind, again it is time people take responsibilty for what OUR government has done... otherwise we will be in this same hole in a different region of the world in 20 to 40 years. We refused to learn the lessons of Nam, and Central America

Oh and by the way, this is a classic resouruce war that is coming to a head due to an obsolete energy policy.

[anarchy1999]

30. You need to go further back, to the end of WWI and Lawrence of Arabia.

Just in case you wonder.

Read some Robert Fisk, or I'll give you links in the later am, if you want them. And yes, the same criminals from Iran/Contra are back, how in the HELL did "we the people" let that happen?!?

I never ever mentioned Central America, but if you want to go there, let us just start another thread, okay?

Go read up on Paul Findley, do a google and read some of his most recent essays and then get back to me.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. Lawrence of Arabia

had far more to do with the BRITISH Occupation of Iraq, which officially ENDED in 1956....

I do know the history of the area in detail... I happen to have a more NUANCED knowledge of the area and am not willing to BLAME OTHERS for our mistakes...

This is what Neo Cons DO REGULARLY. the buck stops in the White house and WE the people.

Oh and one more thing, I know you do not want to go as far back as the Crusades, but trust me when I say this... the people in the area, whether Sadamn Hussein, who saw himself as a new Saladin... or any of the Arab Nationalist faction or for that matter some likkudist, take the history that far back or even farther....

[anarchy1999]

33. Yes, it did have far more to do with the "BRITISH" occupation, but

if I'm not mistaken, our very own President Wilson was at Versailles and was one of the statesmen responsible for or let happen the betrayal of what had been promised to the Arab nations in return for helping to defeat the Turks?

And by the way, yes they do take their history that far back. I have many friends from that part of the world and had many discussions with them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. Yes but negotiations at Versaille

we really had no idea what we were doing insofar as the ME is concerned, we defered to both the British Foreign Office and the French.

Read some history on the subject Versaille 1919 is a great book btw.. written by a Canadian historian and this came about the time we were about to drop bombs.. last year or so.

We made concessions at Versaille but this was AFTER the young Turk revolt in oh Turkey.

Oh and by the way what the Turks did to the Armeians is one of the great non spoken genocides of the 20th century, up there with Argentina and the Killing Fields... heck the last two are better known.

This is why I say, time we take responsibility and HOLD our leaders responsible.

This also includes holding, morally at least, others responsible, but right now we have zero moral authority (and this goes double for the brits as well, as they should have known far better than they did)

When the dust settles we may see a nuclear holocaust in the ME... right now any false sneeze by too many actors could lead to a full exchange. This woudl be a collective regional disaster and if Sagan was correct in teh ammount of nukes, a global disaster.

_Edited for spelling

[Sugarbleus]

28. Just read this earlier, check it out. "October surprise"?

In original post, notice reference to Bibi Netanyahu.... :scared:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=800189&mesg_id=800189&page=

[FlemingsGhost]

31. So, it's the U.S. and Israel versus the world.

Both nations richly deserve the pariah status that is sure to result from such foolish, self-centered behavior.

About time, too.

[jumpstart33]

36. This is Israel warning the world that it is about to attack Iran.

And with the the blessings of the US.

[jumpstart33]

37. Wouldn't Iran be justified in a "pre-emptive" strike against Israel?

Afterall, Israel has said it intends to attack Iran.

[Jack The Tab]

38. Israel should just take on the entire region...

Solve their "problem" once and for all. Let's see if they would do it without us in the region.

HAH! Please. Israel's military is basically entirely subsidized by the U.S.

I really really believe our unnaturally close ties to Israel will be a big part of this country's downfall.

[Radius]

39. Reverse

History has seen its neighbors try 3 times to destroy Israel, and receive an ass kicking each time.

We have the same arrange ment with South Korea.

PS don't tell anyone the Europeans sell arms to the Zionists too.

[Jack The Tab]

41. The Europeans may sell them weapons...we just subsidize them...

And it I am completely honest when I say that Israel should take on the entire region. Let's just be done with this ancient blood feud once and for all and then let Israel sink or swim on its own.

[Radius]

43. Not viable

We subsidize Egyptian production of our main battle tank for their domestic use.

We subsidize, japan and many others.

The region has tried taking on Israel, and lost all three times. This was before we sold them fairly modern systems. They also make their own systems.

They need to work their problems out. The Palestinians should get someone in who is willing to work out a two state solution. That would solve a lot of this.

Jew hatred is the Eurasia for lots of nations in the ME. Take that away and people would realize the truth.

[Malva Zebrina]

40. This is about the fourth time in recent months that Israel has threatened

Iran or goaded the US to do so.

Let em--let em use their military and their young as pawns but not drag in this American's children.

Should it happen and this is not just chest beating, let one American lose their life over Israel's pre-emptive madness and I will scream from the rooftops over the way Israeli spies have passed our secrets to the Israel and possibly may have been responsible for deaths of our soldiers, and further, if we join in the happy happy, bomb anyone else who lives in the entire area, Iraqi style, who has what I have in order to protect itself especially when Bush has named it an axis of evil, I am out of this country.

Anyone who thinks that Israel is not a dominant force in the way politics is played out in this country is in severe denial.

[MeinaShaw]

42. No More Nukes!

What needs to be done is for the world to pressure Iran to stop its nuclear program. We must stop the spread of nuclear weapons and power. And we must show the war mongering Bush administration there is another way.

Peaceful protests can bring this about if it is focused in the right place. We already know Bush (and Israel) know only one way to resolve such disputes - war and bombs. There is no changing them. They - and the world - have to be shown there is another way, an alternative to war and aggression.

Kerry should call for world wide peaceful protests to pressure Iran to stop its nuclear program. No More Nukes!