US runs low on soldiers

[keischin]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=3592350&thesection=news&thesubsection=world

...

"Where to find the extra troops to fight a seemingly intractable insurgency that echoes Vietnam has become a pressing question. And although you wouldn't hear it from the Bush Administration, the prospect of deploying a draft for the first time in a generation may be edging towards reality."

...

"Many US soldiers in Iraq are fighting for a second year. The Pentagon has also deployed about 45 per cent of the 1.2 million-strong National Guard (as against 1.4 million in the regular armed forces), the highest call-up of "weekend warriors" since World War II. Arguably, the move could leave the US more vulnerable to attack."

...

"Meanwhile, the war in Iraq bleeds on. Besides the dead, 6690 soldiers had been wounded by September 12."

...

"We're getting a lot of calls from people who are worried," says Morse. "Especially from young men. Even from young women."

...

"Once the presidential election is done I think there will be strong pressure on Congress to look at the draft," says Professor Don Zillman, a expert on the subject at the University of Maine in Portland.

[LifeDuringWartime]

1. how did i know

that this wouldnt be from a US-based outlet?

[mconvente]

2. this is scary

Send this article to ALL college age people. The draft is something that NEEDS to be out there in order to swing the vote toward Kerry.

[RTO Trainer]

6. Only if you want to scare people....

...with fairy tales.

A draft is so impractical as to be impossible. Forget it.

[LiberalFighter]

10. Why does the Selective Service System already have it planned?

http://www.sss.gov/fslottery.htm

[AntiFascist]

14. So what is the alternative?

Increasing the incentives in order to get more people to enlist and then bring the economy down harder on the lower middle class?

[The Zanti Regent]

15. Folks on this board are MISSING the point

The GOP doe NOT want a draft.

They DO want to hire third worlders to soldier for us at dirt cheap wages with no benefits!

This is what they have wanted to do all along, hire modern Hessians!

[AntiFascist]

17. I agree with Seymour Hersh....

Whatever the inept neo-cons try to do in the Middle East, they are being outsmarted and manipulated. It seems that it doesn't matter who they try to put into power, now or in the past, our military has to be there afterwards to mop things up.

[RTO Trainer]

20. I doesn't matter

...who want's draft and who doesn't. They can't have one.

Do you have any idea how much has to change with regard to haow toops get trained if you bring in people who aren't there because they want to be?

Do you have any idea how much has to change about how operations are conducted because you've changed the way people are trained?

I *can* be done, but it'd take 5 to 10 years to phase it back in and it is *not* something you'd want to try while also fighting a war.

[AntiFascist]

24. I'll bet it can and will be done....

during this war in order to prepare for future operations. Go to www.newamericancentury.com
and read what the long-term plans are.

One of the memos dated 7/20/04 relating to Iran states:
"We do need a coherent, serious policy toward Iran; one of containment, pressure, accountability and, ultimately, regime change."

The National Guardsmen are not trained well for combat. In fact I know of soldiers who are specially trained, and now in Iraq, in order to help defend the regular troops.

The "special skills" draft may provide the "skilled" soldiers they need who are successful at smoking out the terrorists.

I happen to live near a military base and, during the past few days, I swear I've heard them practicing bombing runs in the early morning, just as they did before we bombed Baghdad. It's already starting.

[RTO Trainer]

25. Why do you beleive...

...that we aren't trained well for combat?

It doesn't bother me too much that you might think so; if you do than hopefully so do our enemies and that suits me fine.

You have a problem with this strategy for Iran? It makes a lot of sense to me. Looking at a map, it looks like the containment is being achieved.

As for what you hear at the base, maybe you haven't heard there's a war on?

[AntiFascist]

34. "Citizen Soldiers"

http://www.pbs.org/now/society/natguard.html

in a recent broadcast by Bill Moyers, brought the issue home:

...

"Members of the House Armed Services Committee have expressed concern over the critical role of Guard and Reserve troops in Iraq. Part of the worry has been over combat readiness..."

I have a big problem with a strategy that involves starting, what is being called, "another war" when we don't have sufficient resources to do the job well in Iraq, and when we haven't finished the task in Afghanistan.

Why do I get the feeling that the neo-cons are desparately trying to get their agenda fully engaged in light of Bush's crumbling support since 9/11 and the fact that Kerry is so close to beating him in November?

[0007]

38. RTO Trainer you sound like Bumsfeld!

[Dzimbowicz]

50. Here is an alternative and a scary one if you are at Ft Carson

COLORADO SPRINGS - Soldiers from a Fort Carson combat unit say they
have been issued an ultimatum - re-enlist for three more years or be
transferred to other units expected to deploy to Iraq....

Link to the on-line article:

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/state/article/0,1299,DRMN_21_3185596,00.html


www.veteransforpeace.org

[Almost_there]

26. It's their job to have it ready...

Well, it is the Selective Service's job to have a draft plan ready at all times. I wouldn't consider that to be a precursor to a draft. I don't *think* that the Bushy's WANT a draft, they may need it, but, if it happens, it would be the end of a viable Republican Party. NO WAY could they get popular support for one. This isn't WWII, and no one is willing to get drafted to go die for this war. The soldiers that have volunteered did just that. They volunteered.

But, as far as SSS having a plan, they damn well better, its been the plan ever since selective service was put into effect.

~Almost

[Norquist Nemesis]

12. So...

are you Guard or regular military?

And how are things in Kabul?

[RTO Trainer]

19. Kabul is good....

The Canadians run the city and they do a pretty good job. The Germans are training the police departments.

I'm in the Guard. 45th Infantry. Oklahoma.

The Afghan National Army grows every day and they take over more and more of their own security as they are able.

[llmart]

30. Sounds like you drank the Kook Aid....

I actually feel sorry for you because when reality hits you it will hit you hard.

[NickB79]

32. "The Afghan National Army grows every day"

Which is why they were able to so professionally and effectively secure the landing zone of President Karzai's helicopter last week to prevent any assassination attempts on his life.

Oh wait, thats right, a FRIGGING MISSILE was launched at his helicopter as it tried to land, and he was rushed back to Kabul immediately.

There's a reason why he's called the mayor of Kabul instead of the president of Afghanistan, and this is it. He leaves the capital and he will be killed. That's taking over more and more of their own security?

[puerco-bellies]

41. Bwaaa Haaaa Haaaa Haaaa!!

Drink deep the cool-aid RTO!!!!!

[Lindacooks]

23. Yeah, sure, and I have a bridge in Brooklyn

for sale if you buy that line.

Then why are young men still required to register with the Selective Service when they turn 18???

[BrotherBuzz]

28. Rumsfeld agrees with you

draftees added "no value, no advantage, really, to the United States Armed Services over any sustained period of time." - Rumsfeld 08 Jan 03

Unfortunately Rummy is a lying sack of shit.

[llmart]

29. "Impractical?"

What the hell dream world are you living in anyway? I hope to hell you're not draft age, because you may live to eat those words.

[saigon68]

43. ADIOS

see ya

[Seabiscuit]

45. Surprise, surprise...

[saigon68]

3. ITS GOING TO GET MIGHTY DRAFTY IN HERE SOON

ALL THE YOUNG REPUKES WILL GET EXEMPTIONS FROM THEIR WELL CONNECTED PARENTS.

LIKE THE CHIMAPNZEE AND CHENEY

THEY ARE SCUM AND CHICKEN HAWKS

[Dzimbowicz]

36. I agree with you Saigon68....

If the republicans win in November, the draft is not, and can not, far behind. And, the wealthy families will find loop holes for their children as they have more access to physicians and attorneys than the average person who can fight (or lie their way through) the system for them.

www.veteransforpeace.org

[aggiedem]

4. People need to wake up

Preferably before November 2nd.

:kick:

[newyawker99]

27. Hi aggiedem!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[tlcandie]

5. Here's the how and when straight from the original linked article ..

<snip>
But Zillman believes a draft that was levied fairly could win public approval in an emergency. "I think at this stage it would be unpopular. But if we have another terrorist attack closer to home, all bets are off."
<snip>

[BeHereNow]

7. Gee...I wonder what is going to happen next?

Ever so slowly they are beating the drums in the
direction of Iran. Now, where is the cannon fodder
going to come from to pull that off? And HOW
will they justify the need for the additional cannon fodder
to continue the crusade and suspend the election?
Any guesses?
BHN

[NEOBuckeye]

8. Draft the NeoConservatives!

If these fuckers want another war so badly, let them draft themselves, give them defective guns sans ammo, parachute them into the heart of Tehran, and let them fight it themselves!

As far as I'm concerned, they're welcome to spill their own blood in the name of their damned imperialist agenda. They have no right to send anyone else to fight a war THEY started, while they sit back and count the proceeds from their millitary-industrial complex associations (i.e. Halliburton, Carlyle and GE).

[hadrons]

9. and Britain is pulling troops out of Iraq too ....

who's going to make up the slack ... not Jen or Babs

[Earth_First]

11. This was exactly my thoughts regarding this

upon hearing this on MSRNC this afternoon...

[Dark]

56. Did they actually say that?

Link please.

[Doosh]

13. somebody must've left the window open

because I feel a draft...

[Morning Dew]

16. Our military is stretched far too thin . . .

If a real crisis occurred, we'd be hard pressed to handle it.

Shrubco is BAD for National Security.

[Fovea]

18. If I were Rummy

I would do the following.

I would tell Columbia, Bolivia, Argentina, Nicaragua and Cuba that they can join the US as states if they contribute manpower and resources to the war effort in the middle east. I would have a statement from Cheney, Hastert, and Frist affirming it.

I would institute a draft like the civil war. Rich kids could opt out for a mil or two contract for someone else to go for them. 100K tax on the option. The Rich Kids get to keep the medals, though. They could even sponsor a professional league.

I would combine the school of the Americas into the general command staff to make the command structure's philosophy more in line with the troops from the new states. And I would let slip the dogs of war.

[Erika]

22. The Bush's would donate Several Million

to keep Jenna, Barbara, George P and Noelle out of some "messy" war. And drug and civil courts.

[0007]

40. .....and Neill should have the option of prison or the front lines.

[grytpype]

21. pic

[saigon68]

31. That's Gomer Pyle from Full Metal Jacket.--He's loading the magazine

He is typical of what is going on. Wait until Gomer comes back from IRAQ-NAM

[Dzimbowicz]

37. And let's not forget how well he learned his lessons

www.veteransforpeace.org

[saigon68]

42. He learned all ---within the term of Basic Training

I wonder how his Drill Sgt felt? LOL

[Dzimbowicz]

47. He might have been a sh**bird during most of Basic

but he knew it all by heart when he was in the head assembling the rifle, loading the magazine and understanding the capabilities of his ammunition.

www.veteransforpeace.com

[Roy]

49. Heart felt????

R. Lee Ermey, my favorite DI since Boys in Company C. (a personal classic)

[Dzimbowicz]

51. Well put.

[Yavin4]

33. We Will Not Be Able To Hold Onto Iraq Without A Draft

We'll be in Iraq for at least another five years. We cannot make that kind of long term committment without some sort of draft.

[Lexboy1981]

35. The foreign press tells you what the US media will not;

The foreign press tells you what the US media will not; Americans face compulsory military service.

[Ganja Ninja]

44. We won't be able to hold on to Iraq with a draft either. n/t

[BiggJawn]

39. So you women GET TO WORK! Murka needs Cannon Fodder!

Stop this foolishness of a career. Get KNOCKED UP NOW!

It's your patriotic duty!






<sarcasm> (in case you had any doubts)

[PROUDNWLIBERAL]

46. Letter to the Editor

Let's get out the vote. Send a letter to the editor of your local paper stating that if Bush gets elected high school age students will be facing a draft. Any time you see a high school student that looks close to voting age tell them about the coming draft!

[Dzimbowicz]

48. I am a High School Teacher...

and I do discuss the draft with my students. Many of them have no idea that it could actually happen to them (you know, it's always the other guy). Many also think that if it does, they will somehow be able to avoid it. They do not have a clue of what reality can be. BTW, I played the song "Alice's Restaurant" for them and they had no idea of what it was about. I did my best to explain it for them, but only a few seemed to care. Then I played "Feel Like I'm Fixin' to Die Rag" by Country Joe and the Fish. Then things started to sink in.

Would anyone like to help me update the lyrics to Country Joe's song?
Examples of what i would like are:

"and, it's one, two three, what are we fighting for?..."?

or...

"C'mon Halliburton, don't be slow,
why man it's war a go-go.
There's plenty of good money to be made,
by supplying the bu$ies with the tools of their trade."



www.veteransforpeace.org

[roseBudd]

52. Draft Alert flyer for college campuses

Go to http://somnamblst.tripod.com to download high resolution TIF or PDF file to print and distribute. I'm doing bulletin boards & telephone poles.

[Dzimbowicz]

55. Thanks a zillion....

Will do.

[dave502d]

53. Britain's ambassador to Italy, who claimed President Bush was al-Qa'eda's

al-Qa'eda's isn't.

http://telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/09/21/uambas.xml&sSheet=/portal/2004/09/21/ixportaltop.html

[Dark]

54. I am going to show this to every repuke at my college I can. (eom)

[dave502d]

57. A Strident Minority: Anti-Bush U.S. Troops in Iraq

" 9 out of 10 of the people I talk to, it wouldn't matter who ran against Bush - they'd vote for them," said a US soldier in the southern city of Najaf, seeking out a reporter to make his views known. "People are so fed up with Iraq, and fed up with Bush."


http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/092204C.shtml