Kerry Says He Wouldn't Have Ousted Saddam

[wicket]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040920/ap_on_el_pr/politics_of_iraq
Staking out new ground on Iraq (news - web sites), Sen. John Kerry (news - web sites) said Monday he would not have overthrown Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) had he been in the White House, and he accused President Bush (news - web sites) of "stubborn incompetence," dishonesty and colossal failures of judgment. Bush said Kerry was flip-flopping.

Less than two years after voting to give Bush authority to invade Iraq, the Democratic candidate said the president had misused that power by rushing to war without the backing of allies, a post-war plan or proper equipment for U.S. troops. "None of which I would have done," Kerry said.

"Saddam Hussein was a brutal dictator who deserves his own special place in hell," he added. "But that was not, in itself, a reason to go to war. The satisfaction we take in his downfall does not hide this fact: We have traded a dictator for a chaos that has left America less secure."

Bush hit back from a campaign rally in New Hampshire, interpreting Kerry's comment to mean the Democrat believes U.S. security would be better with Saddam still in power. "He's saying he prefers the stability of a dictatorship to the hope and security of democracy," the Republican incumbent said.

[wicket]

1. the media really has it in for Kerry

This headline is a massive twisting of Kerry's words!

[Arcturus]

2. Haven't heard this one before.

"Bush said Kerry was flip-flopping."

I wonder if he addressed Kerry's point?

[Arcturus]

3. Double posting action!

Twin posts, for a clean, close shave every time.

*DELETED*

[MisterP]

6. BAHAHAHAAH!

[sonicx]

4. Kerry's right. saddam being a dictator isn't worth it all.

he's being consistent. he said use war as a last resort if weapons were found by inspections.

[earthside]

5. Bush is Inconsistent

Did Bush ever say in the run-up to the attack and invasion that ousting Saddam was reason enough?

NO!

Because he and his cabal of warmongers knew that that was not a good enough reason to get the American people behind his plot.

So, is Bush coming up now with reasons/excuse number 25 for the war - just to topple Saddam?

[Sugarbleus]

8. I agree. They should have left Saddam in power until

we were able to get a head start on terrorists/groups in other parts of the world. Oh, did I forget to mention...AND CAPTURE OBL???

Bush said we were going after the terrorists. He didn't say we were going to "liberate" an oppressed country...that was a detour we didn't need to be involved in AT THE TIME. After 9/11, none of Bush's war policy was suppose to be about "spreading democracy, nation building, and liberation"..He said so himself. It was about finding and stopping THE TERRORISTS organisations whereever they were. They weren't in Iraq then as they are now.

Saddam could have been watched and dealt with in sundry ways; none of which include invasion.

I wrote to Bush before he plunged into Iraq telling him he was making a humungous mistake. That he would be stirring up a hornet's nest that would make everything worse. I told the prez, his plan was insane; Iraq didn't attack us. Flubya didn't answer. :shrug:

[PurityOfEssence]

7. We never popped Franco either

Nor did we attack the Soviet Union (well, after our little Murmansk/Archangel party of 1918, that is...)

We left all sorts of complete rotters in place, as a matter of fact, and have more of a habit of replacing decent leaders like Allende, Arbenz and Mossadeg with high-order skunks, if the truth be told.

[Disturbed]

10. There is zero proof...

that Saddam gassed the Kurds. This is constantly repeated but never proven. Before the 1st Gulf War Saddam was supplied by the US Govt. and considered an ally in his war on Iran. After his invasion of Kuwaite, which he actually has legit. reasons to invade, Saddam suddenly became another "Hitler". Research the events preceeding Gulf War 1 and it will beocme clear why the US under Bush 1 insisted that Saddam had to be nuetered.

[IndianaGreen]

57. We didn't topple the Somoza family, or Dominican dictator Trujillo

Saddam was contained! The toppling of Saddam was part of a Bush family vendetta. A need by the son to outdo his more accomplished father. There is some abnormal psychology at play here!

[mzmolly]

9. "The capture of Saddam Hussein has not made America safer"

~ Howard Dean (Visionary and Former Presidential Candidate.)

[Disturbed]

13. It's too bad that...

Dean was assisinated by the Media and his own party because in my view he was the strongest candidate for Pres. When he said that he would bust up the Media Conglomerates he spelled out his doom. Dean/Clarke would have been a stronger ticket than Kerry/Edwards.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Judi Lynn]

24. Howard Dean heartily supports John Kerry, or hadn't you heard?

He has endorsed him a long time ago. He's definitely on board with the candidate.

You may be singing to the not choir here.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wicket]

31. hmmmmm....

:nuke:

[Judi Lynn]

35. Could I offer a suggestion?

Please spell it "TOEing the line," if you don't mind. It's been spelled that way a long time.

Dean doesn't dispise John Kerry. A Democrat would know that.

[Carolab]

71. Please spell it

"despise". It's been spelled that way a long time now.

[JimmyJazz]

78. Why is it that freepers have such difficulty

with the English language? Do they get that particular trait from their leader? Good grief. They also can't seem to find that little button at the bottom that says "check spelling." Although, admittedly, the hate mail bag is a great source of amusement in our family.

[Spiffarino]

36. No, actually it's

..."toeing" the party line. Common mistake. http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-toe2.htm

Now get out there and help Dubya make that pie higher, Billyboy.

[Spiffarino]

25. Thanks for stopping by, Karl!

Enjoy your stay in Hell.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wicket]

32. "At least you got one smart guy in the room."

Billyboy, the overall IQ of the site went down with you joining. Have a short stay Karl.

:spank:

[okieinpain]

61. the deleted messages are funny as hell. mod's might as well put a beep

there.

[0007]

34. There are a lot of Dean fans here. But I guess you just don't

get it!!

STFU!!

[wicket]

37. Nah, getting it would require brain activity

:evilgrin:

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wicket]

40. "Your right Dean is a Boob too."

Did Rush give you that talking point? Did you not realize how lame of a comeback it is??

[stacysangeltouch]

38. Dean verses Kerry?

Hey BilyBoy,
I know it can get frustrating, especially when the media twist and lies about everything said, and are one-sided and bias. But it is the media and the Republicans that tries to discredit everything Kerry says, and they don't ever shine the spot--light on Bush and his lies or flip-flops. Thry instead change the subject and go after the messenger, never make Bush answer any questions about his service, etc. So get mad at the media and takle a stand to make them accountable for biased and dishonest reporting. Kerry has a right to change his mind about positionns he took after finding out that our president lied to us about the facts for going to war. Alot of Republicans are now wanting to take a different position and clearly want some answers, but the media doesn't tell you that.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wicket]

42. if you think this is "riled" up

You need to up your medication.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wicket]

46. Bush is toast

Have fun on your sinking ship!

[Spiffarino]

45. OMG, now that was the lamest

comeback for a grammar fuckup I have ever heard. What are you, 12?

[stacysangeltouch]

47. Thats a really rotton thing to do.

Dear BillyBoy,

Why do you think that is a smart or funny thing to do, if you want to stop and take a look from another perspective, it just goes to show how a dirty-underhanded, biased, "don't give a-damn about nobody but myself", greedy, lying, get my quicks of off silly, pathetic games and attempts to decieve, and cause chaos, "Rebublican", would behave.
You know, my father is a World War II 100% Disabled Veteran who is bedfast, and my husband is a 100% Disabled Veteran, I take care of them and three young sons, one who was born premature after the war and almost died. They didn't fight for this country to be ridiculed by the likes of someone like you! And I stretched out a olive branch to you, so you would see that everyone is entitled to their opinion, and that! is why our soldiers fight, for freedom and that includes the right to freedom of thought and expression!

[Bread and Circus]

60. Ya' gotta hand it to Dean...he was prophetic in many ways.

The longer this goes on the more I wish we would have had a Dean/Kucinich combo of sorts w/ Clark and Secretary of State.

What a cool thing that would have been.

[wsswss]

66. Back when Kerry was battling Dean...

"Those who doubted whether Iraq or the world would be better off without Saddam Hussein, and those who believe today that we are not safer with his capture, don't have the judgment to be president or the credibility to be elected president."

John Kerry
Drake University
December 16, 2003

[gottaB]

70. Fortunately our nominee has been entirely consistent and reasonable

John Kerry recognizes that that not all questions involving Saddam Hussein and national security have the same easy answers.

Three different issues:

• Authorizing the use of force against Saddam Hussein's government of Iraq for the purpose of ensuring that it was not in possession of nuclear weapons.
  
• Invading Iraq and removing Saddam Hussein's government.
  
• Capturing the fugitive Saddam Hussein.
  

John Kerry agrees with Bush on two of those issues, and disagrees with Bush on one, namely, the invasion of Iraq. We should be glad that our nominee is able to offer a thorough and reasonable critique of Bush's Iraq policy, a critique which hones in on the most crucial executive decision a president has to make.

Despite the efforts of our political enemies to twist our nominee's words and portray him as a waffler, we know that he has a clear message and a realistic strategy for meeting our national security needs in Iraq and elsewhere.

[private_ryan]

11. headline is not on our favor

n/t. "Wouldn't have started the war" would be better

[progressivebydesign]

12. I watched the speech, he didn't say that!

The media is working overtime to discredit Kerry. They are shameless.

[Norquist Nemesis]

79. Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!

That's absolutely correct! Kerry didn't say that at all. Three guesses who translated it for the masses with complimentary soundbyte though... a) Bush b) Dubya c) Chimpy

Almost immediately after Kerry's speech yesterday, they were showing Bush on the campaign trail with that exact *cough* interpretation. :mad:

[Democat]

14. Right wing media spinning for Bush as usual

What a fucking headline the White House ass kissers wrote this time.

[Sinnerman]

15. Tired of Right wing Propaganda

I am sick & tired of hearing this B_ S_ I think that because of what CBS News Did. the rest of the media is blowing it way out of proportion.

[Career Prole]

16. ""He's saying he prefers the stability of a dictatorship"

"He's saying he prefers the stability of a dictatorship to the hope and security of democracy," the Republican incumbent said.

What a f*cking moron. No shrub, what he's saying is a dictatorship is the far lesser of two evils when compared to the seething seedbed of anti-American hatred which you created with your ignorant invasion and occupation...which incidentally has dramatically decreased our national security. Just shut the f*ck up, you dimwitted, posturing f*cktard! :grr: :grr: :grr:
/rant

[LisaL]

17. Security of democracy?

If what is going in Iraq is a secure democracy, according to Bush, God help us all!

[Nancy Waterman]

18. Tell everyone you know who is doubting Kerry

and anyone who is on the fence to watch him tonight at 8:30 EDT on CSPAN. People need to see the real thing not the media misrepresentations!!

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sonicx]

27. here you go...

vote for kerry or you'll be responsible for what bush does in the next 4 years.

[The_Casual_Observer]

19. "he prefers the stability of a dictatorship to the hope ..."

This wasn't why we invaded that shit place and he knows it. Since when did these rw assholes care about "Hope and Security" of anybody??? Invasion on this basis would have never happened, had it been Clinton's decision to do this, these same assholes would have formed a coup.

[Judi Lynn]

21. Some mightly crappy writing there, by "RON FOURNIER, AP Political Writer"

He's portraying Kerry in a totally negative light, if you really think about it, mentioning:

Kerry did not answer the most relevant question.......

But Kerry has failed to capitalize thus far.....

Kerry's advisers say they're not sure whether it is too late for the Democrat to make the Iraq critique resonate......

Shows the squat, stupid pResident getting some smart aleck responses, and playing to his imbecile crowd for laughs:

Anybody who believes that, Kerry said, doesn't "have the judgment to be president."

Reading that quote to his GOP crowd on Monday, Bush cracked: "I could not have said it better."

The dipstick used that flourish as his "closer," to drive home his right-wing point.

He has written his own little play, with big, slow, dumb Kerry stumbling around and uttering set-up lines for the little chicken-hawk to bounce off his butt. Shades of "Al Bore," isn't it?

[stacysangeltouch]

28. MEDIA IS SO BIASED

I agree, media is so biased, and I find it hard to believe that anyone watching how the media is so one-sided, could believe any of the crap that they put out. Do they ever jump on the real questions of why Bush never directly answers any of the accusations, but instead diverts the attention by attacking the messenger and trying to discredit the person, by any means possible. The media is mostly rebublican owned, so of course they are biased, but then if they are going to allow their bias in, they should not be able to call themselves, " fair and honest". I have wrote to several news stations complaining of the bias, and if everyone would do so, they would have to take notice.

[Judi Lynn]

44. You're right. The people who own the media are not similar to the ones

who depend on them for information. They have an agenda, they know the real story, and they're not inclined to actually GIVE the true story to you.

They will give you their rearranged version of the story, instead. That's LYING.

Glad you've sent e-mails to some of these people. Can only hope one day someone of them will start getting worried about their declining base of trusting victems readers.

Wecome to DU, stacysangeltouch! :hi: :hi: :hi:

[stacysangeltouch]

48. Thank You!

Hi,
Glad to be aboard! Thanks for the warm welcome!

[wellst0nev0ter]

69. Hey, Don't Blame Them

It's not like they've actually BEEN to Eye-Rack recently, so it's understandable that they would accept the CW offered by the Bushistas

</sarcasm>

[Career Prole]

53. Anybody who believes that, Kerry said, doesn't "have the judgment

to be president."

There's a counterpunch to that talking point, which that buttwad Kyl used on CNN tonight as well. That particular quote is taken from a democratic primary debate. If the repukes want to use debate quotes, there are some real f*ckin' doozies from the */Gore debates.

"And finally, whether or not there was an exit strategy. I would take the use of force very seriously. I would be guarded in my approach. I don't think we can be all things to all people in the world. I think we've got to be very careful when we commit our troops. The vice president and I have a disagreement about the use of troops. He believes in nation building. I would be very careful about using our troops as nation builders."

Shrub...FLIP-FLOPPER!!

[Roland99]

23. Write the Associated Press (AP) and tell them your thoughts!!

Contact [e-mail] or [e-mail] and tell them your thoughts on their inflammatory "news"!

[Judi Lynn]

33. Just did, and thanks. Used your first address, feel MUCH better.

Told them they've made a shambles of their wretched reputation.

Why should we have to keep seeing them do this to one Democratic candidate, season after season?

Damned pathetic _Bush lackeys.

[flordehinojos]

49. I thought that,

saying, as Kerry did, that
"Saddam Hussein was a brutal dictator who deserves his own special place in hell," he added. "But that was not, in itself, a reason to go to war. The satisfaction we take in his downfall does not hide this fact: We have traded a dictator for a chaos that has left America less secure."


is entirely one thing upon which many, many Americans and many, many people world wide are agreed. I thought Kerry stated a true fact.

Bush, with his twist-and-turn technique turned Kerry's truthful statement into:

"He's saying he prefers the stability of a dictatorship to the hope and security of democracy,"

That is not what Kerry said. Bush is a Master Manipulator. He can and he will twist Kerry's every words during the debates. I hope Kerry is up to straightening back again every one of Kerry's own words that Bush tries to twist, and that he will also straighten out for all to see all the twisted mangled, delusional and narcissistic lies about bush's own record that Bush may try to unload on the public during the debates.

Clearing muck and mud can be such an arduous thing to do, especially when spreading muck and mud is aided and abetted by the media. I hope Kerry has a good powerful water hose to hose down all the mud, muck and lies bush may try to pass as facts on those debates.

[Carolab]

72. You give him too much credit

Do you REALLY think he crafted that comeback all by his lil ole seff?

[flordehinojos]

75. Yeah, I do believe he is a Master Manipulator who learned the art of

manipulating and the art of the one line come back from his dear ole mommy and his dear ole poppy ... i do believe he could have "crafted that comeback all by his lil ole self".

Payback Time is a major theme of the Bush Family. The "First Twins" used it during their coming out at the NRC, remember?

Although, I do agree ... shrub has many others thinking through and coming up with smart ass comeback lines all the time.

The bushes cannot stand truth and truth is one thing they have learned to distort from the time they were on the crib.

[demoman123]

50. Let me get this straight.

Kerry would have voted to authorize the President to go to war in Iraq, but he would not have gone to war in Iraq if he had been President. Getting rid of Saddam Hussein was a reason to go to war, but not a good enough reason.

Have I got that right?

Kerry is going to have to get less nuanced to get elected. This is just too subtle.

Go ahead and call me a Freeper. I don't care.

[stacysangeltouch]

52. no thats not straight

Kerry is speaking to the fact that if he knew then , what he knows now, being that he voted to go to war on the basis of a lie told by Bush. We now know that he lied, big time. He would not have voted to send our troops to war if he had the true facts. And the mess that we are in now, and no forseeable way to exit with a winning hand, and our soldiers dying everyday, even though Bush declared the war over months ago, what do you think you would do? We can not fight an enemy who plays dirty, that don't care if they die. They send guys into blow themselves up, use cars with bombs to run into buildings, etc., on the roadside, our guys never know when, who, where, or what that they are fighting. There will be no end to this, there is thousands more to take their place, and recruiting more everyday, and thousands coming into the country from elsewhere. Bush failed to heed warnings of how this would be, and had no plan. He knew but didn't care, because he DICK are making millions off of this war, Bush's Caryle Group is selling war products, and Dicks Haliburton is getting no-bid contracts. I read an article that said there was proof that Bush set up the how damn 911 attack, farfetching? I don't know, I would believe anything anymore.

[Dangerman]

51. Ousted Saddam is not worth 1,000 soldiers.

And if "Saddam Hussein was a brutal dictator who deserves his own special place in hell," what about George W. Bush? He too, deserves HIS OWN special place in hell, Christian or NO Christian, for misleading us to war and MURDERING our damn soldiers and innocent Iraqis!

Ousting Saddam is NOT WORTH IT! It's not worth all this hell we're now in! Especially an American who got beheaded!

George Bush, GO TO HELL!

[stacysangeltouch]

54. Not a Christian

Bush and most of the Republicans are not christians. Thry only pretend to be, to get the support of true Christians, who believe them, just to get their vote. The last time I checked, the bible says to take care of the poor and needy. To help the helpless and children. Nothing that the Rebublicans are for or do has ever done anything but hurt the poor, children, helpless, needy, seniors, and Veterans. Do you know that Senator Dashe wrote a proposal to mandatory fund the healthcare for Veterans, and not one single Republican voted for it. All of the Democrats but two, voted for it. Now you can go check the voting records on this, and see how they vote, and who is for what. You will be surprised. I am a Christian and I am not neccessarily in favor of gay rights, and abortion, but I can tell the difference in someone who pretends to be moral, but doesn't give a damn about the majority of the people, and the majority is middle class and poor. At leadt the Dems are truthful about what they stand for, and do care about the majority, it reflects it in their voting records.

[stacysangeltouch]

55. Bush Not a Christian

Bush and most of the Republicans are not christians. Thry only pretend to be, to get the support of true Christians, who believe them, just to get their vote. The last time I checked, the bible says to take care of the poor and needy. To help the helpless and children. Nothing that the Rebublicans are for or do has ever done anything but hurt the poor, children, helpless, needy, seniors, and Veterans. Do you know that Senator Dashe wrote a proposal to mandatory fund the healthcare for Veterans, and not one single Republican voted for it. All of the Democrats but two, voted for it. Now you can go check the voting records on this, and see how they vote, and who is for what. You will be surprised. I am a Christian and I am not neccessarily in favor of gay rights, and abortion, but I can tell the difference in someone who pretends to be moral, but doesn't give a damn about the majority of the people, and the majority is middle class and poor. At leadt the Dems are truthful about what they stand for, and do care about the majority, it reflects it in their voting records.

[study_war_no_more]

74. Hallejua

Keep it up attack Bush as a man of faith, this is the real deal.

[BadGimp]

56. Bush said Kerry was flip-flopping

Well there you have it kiddies, all wrapped up in a nice short and neat little package.

Now run along and play.

[Roland99]

58. IT WORKED!! AP changed the Headline!!

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20040921/D857O1083.html


Kerry Accuses Bush of Incompetence on Iraq

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

77. Heh. Let the cries of "boo hoo liberal media boo hoo" commence. (nt)

[Renew Deal]

59. Democracy by gun barrel

I never knew that the taste of freedom was gunpowder.

[Voltaire99]

62. Well done, Kerry. This is Message #1...

Message #2 is "Speedy Withdrawal From Iraq"...

And #3 is "Bush = Draft."

Say them all over and over and over, and folks will hardly care about the vote for authorizing war. Learn from what Bush, Rove and Bin Laden have done to Murrica. Everyone is scared, but not many understand why, or what to be afraid of.

Teach them that it is Bush who is the one to fear. There is everything to be gained from equating Bush with loss of life, military conscription, and pointless sacrifice.

[Fiendish Thingy]

63. NPR opened w/"Special Place in Hell"

on all things considered, the reporter quickly mentioned Kerry saying he would leave Saddam in power, and then played the "stubborn incompetence" clip. They played a brief clip of Bush's comments, but not the extended rant w/"I couldn't have said it better".
This is getting good, "stubborn incompetence" from Kerry on the same day as Lugar and Hagel complain about "incompetence"...I guess they didn't get their talking points memo from Karl...Go Johnny Go!

[scarface2004]

64. better yet appoint saddam to the supreme court!!

or make him speaker of the house!!! or majority leader of the senate!!! or frikkin vice president for christ sakes!! anythings better than the shit we have now!!!

[leQ]

65. i sure hope y'all caught john on dave tonite

if there's any doubt about him remaining, it was washed away like tide in hot water tonite. there's no doubt in my mind that he'll simply crush the shrub in the debates.

[54anickel]

67. Stability of a dictatorship over the cluster-f*ck we have now? Absolutely

and that is EXACTLY the same decision Poppy made the first time around. Even HE knew the risk of civil war and great instability in the ME! But then again, Poppy was just an ass-hole where as W is the idiot son of an ass-hole. Guess there is a difference.

[cornfedyank]

68. use dick cheney's own 9-16-01 words i.e. leave saddam in the bottle

MR. RUSSERT: Do we have evidence that he's harboring terrorists?

VICE PRES. CHENEY: There is--in the past, there have been some activities related to terrorism by Saddam Hussein. But at this stage, you know, the focus is over here on al-Qaida and the most recent events in New York. Saddam Hussein's bottled up, at this point, but clearly, we continue to have a fairly tough policy where the Iraqis are concerned.

MR. RUSSERT: Do we have any evidence linking Saddam Hussein or Iraqis to this operation?

VICE PRES. CHENEY: No.


http://www.whitehouse.gov/vicepresident/news-speeches/speeches/vp20010916.html

[study_war_no_more]

73. hoooooooooooooooooooooraaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Finally!!

[wicket]

76. kick!

:kick:

[study_war_no_more]

80. boot it up ya alll

Go John yu learning now.

[wicket]

82. and another

:kick:

[Judi Lynn]

81. Kick!

[greenohio]

83. Whew hooo

Some clarity! Now we have something we can run with. Nicely done Mr Kerry.

[wicket]

84. kick