RNC protesters tell City Council hearing that NY police...abused them

[Khephra]

RNC protesters tell City Council hearing that NY police officers abused them

By TIMOTHY WILLIAMS
Associated Press Writer

September 15, 2004, 6:55 PM EDT

NEW YORK -- Republican National Convention protesters told a City Council hearing on Wednesday that the police department engaged in a series of abuses, including using unnecessary force against them, refusing to allow them medical attention and arresting people who weren't taking part in demonstrations.

The New York Civil Liberties Union said hundreds of the 1,800 arrests made during the four-day convention were unjustified.

"Twenty percent of the people who were arrested were not demonstrators, they were bystanders," said Donna Lieberman, executive director of the NYCLU.

No representatives from the police department or the Bloomberg administration appeared at the hearing before the council's Committee on Government Operations.

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/ny-bc-ny--convention-protes0915sep15,0,6211270.story?coll=ny-ap-regional-wire

[Swamp Rat]

1. So they can dish it out but can't take it... Who'da thunk it?

HEY! If I get arrested at the next peace march, I'll just say I'm an innocent bystander!

"But officer, we're all just innocent bystanders!" :D

[nodehopper]

3. Um...

having been there every day, going to protests and filming, I can tell you that the police were, in fact, arresting random passerbyes and there is a lot of footage that demonstrates that without a doubt. They would roll out huge orange nets, pen a whole block in, and arrest EVERYONE within--protesters, people who happened to be passing through, press, NLG observers, without sorting them out. So try not to create conjectures about people's moral character if you are not in full possession of the information.

[Swamp Rat]

5. I know more than you think mistah nodehopper!

"having been there every day, going to protests and filming, I can tell you that the police were, in fact, arresting random passerbyes and there is a lot of footage that demonstrates that without a doubt" - good for you. I hope you win a Sundance award. Seriously.

"So try not to create conjectures about people's moral character if you are not in full possession of the information." - morality does not exist.

And about making conjectures: If it weren't for the sleuthing of Swamp Rat, you'd already be inside the belly of an alien lizard. So, the "moral" of the story is: try not to tell people what to do, else you be Alpo for Aliens.

[nodehopper]

8. huh?

[tblue37]

6. Do you understand

that "Republican National Convention protesters" refers to people who were protesting the RNC, not Republicans attending the convention?

[Swamp Rat]

7. Yes, I do.

That wasn't my point. It certainly is terrible that people were and still are abused.

The point I was trying to make, perhaps quite poorly, is that this has been going on for a long time (for those of us who've been in protests before) and now the SS style police tactics are finally reaching into the general populace. Some of those hurt just might be republicans and are pissed like the rest of us.

[tinanator]

10. the only point I see is you dont care how the RNC rentacops treat dissent

so like your president, who cares what you think?

[Swamp Rat]

15. And where do I say that I don't care tinanator?

You just came on this thread making insinuations and assumptions without asking me what I was talking about. Like your president Bush, are you not inquisitive?

Here's your president tinanator:

[tinanator]

18. you said that you dont know what youre talking about

if not in so many words.

[Swamp Rat]

19. Are you trying to pick a fight with me?

It sure seems like it to me.

"you said that you dont know what youre talking about if not in so many words." - No, I didn't. I was trying to use humor to let you know that you just insulted me for no good reason. In your post above you said:

"the only point I see is you dont care how the RNC rentacops treat dissent so like your president, who cares what you think?" - If you don't care what I think, why are you posting to my sub-threads? There's a lot of conjecture and accusation loaded in this sentence directed at me. I opted to use humor to point out your baseless attack on me.

If you are interested in debate, argument, what have you, then I'm not interested. I quit. You win. Having just survived hurricane Ivan, I'm in no mood to match wits. Just don't vote for Bush, OK?

[tinanator]

22. So they can dish it out but can't take it... Who'da thunk it?

what exactly did you mean by that? Comes across as rather unsympathetic to a fairly significant development. I would expect more concern, across the board. I win.

[Swamp Rat]

25. Yes, you win tinanator.

Now that I have gotten some sleep after such a terrible ordeal, I have time to find out why you have chosen to attack me here on DU.

Since you have finally asked me directly, I'll tell you what I was thinking when I said "So they can dish it out but can't take it... Who'da thunk it?" - I was referring to Bloomberg and his friends. Now that I have had some sleep after 48 hours, I can see the non-sequitur from the title of my first post and the body. I wrote that after no sleep. Dig?

In my last response to you, I informed you that I just survived hurricane Ivan, yet you have the gall to say that I come across as unsympathetic?! How about asking me how I am?

Are you blind or did you just you ignore my sig line with the "sympathetic" photos and my motto? The body of the first post implies that I HAVE BEEN IN PROTESTS and know PERSONALLY what police do. Have you ever had a cocked gun to your head? Have you ever been seriously hurt or beaten? Do you have family in Iraq? Well, I have and I do.

Don't tell me I am unsympathetic because you are WRONG. I expect more concern, across the board, from you tinanator.

[tinanator]

27. well what a coincidence

i was rather groggy myself, and assigned you some credit for some of the more abominable posts in this thread. You may have family in Iraq, but you dont know what that means until one comes back dead. And I do know that, myself, so lets quit the pissing match.
peace out. My friend spent 35 hours locked up for nothing.

[Swamp Rat]

28. Good idea

I hope your friend is OK.

peace

[21winner]

2. So 380 out of 500,000 were falsely arrested.

I hope they can sue. The rest have no complaint. Overall I thought the whole thing was handled well.

[nodehopper]

4. how about the ones that were "not falsely" (whatever that means) arrested

but were detained for over 48 hours without phone calls or access to a lawyer in a facility that has been condemned becaue it is ful of asbestos and, as a former bus depot, has its floors covered with diesel residue and motor oil which gave people respotory problems and rashes. How does that fit into your definition of "handled well"? Or did you just not hear about that becaue you just followed the corporate media's "coverage" of what happened? Do you think the NYPD refusing to release the arrestees after being found IN CONTEMPT of the court order, after the judge ordered them to let the people out is "handled well"? If so, our definitions differ radically.

[RhodaGrits]

9. and why is it that it is 500,000 when they want to show good

stats or keep people off the great lawn but 100,000 when touting how many were in the crowd in stories about the protests?

[tinanator]

11. overall id say you really have a way of treating fellow citizens

your math is ludicrously bad, but that is not surprising.
I cant imagine who youll be voting for.

[Goldmund]

12. You do realize...

...20% of arestees were bystanders, but much more than that were "falsely arrested" -- unless protesting is now against the law? Also, you do realize that the 1800 who were arrested were arrested to intimidate the other 498200, and those who decided not to protest because they didn't want to expose themselves to a random arrest?

[el_gato]

13. NYC Police State

bow down and kiss the whip you are beat with eh?

[Supply Side Jesus]

16. so being held for over 40 hours without seeing a lawyer

was handling it well???? Guess the constitution has no meaning to you?

[leesa]

20. Most of the charges were thrown out. They were bogus arrests

[robbedvoter]

14. Yeah, but W is catching up in polls in NY, dontcha know!

:shrug:

[RazorNY22]

17. Here's how the cops work

First they give numerous warnings that action is going to be taken. Then they ty to isolate an area, say one sqaure block at a time then they bring out the netting. If any "innocent bystanders" are still in the area they are going to be arrested LAWFULLY for Failure to disperse and disorderly conduct.

Sorry, even though our hearts are with the protesters, they will not win any lawsuits. And as far as the conditions of the pier they are far better than any precinct. The precincts are old, full of asbestos and the cops have been complaining for years but no one gives a shit.
Spending a few hours at the pier is not going to effect anyones health. The only ones in danger are the cops, some of whom were assigned there for 2 weeks straight.

The NYPD did a fantastic job at the convention. Demonstrators spoke their mind and the delegates had their convention.

There were more cops injured than protesters.

Razor

[leesa]

21. And WHY were they having to disperse?

If they were appropriate charges, why were so many thrown out?

[tinanator]

23. sounds like crap from where we stood

one of the advantages to being there is you get to watch the cop spokesfucks lie about things that you know the truth of. Rather than enumerate them here, lets just say there were patterns of behavior, not honorable, completely unconstitutional/illegal from ANY angle. But its nice to hear their side of the story again. The RNC rentacopped the NYPD (with the taxpayers treasury footing the bill), completely disrupted daily life in Manhattan for a week (in ways you had to see to believe) and paid the rent on an horrifically unsafe and inappropriate facility where law abiding citizens were unlawfully deprived of their rights. kidnapped.
Your case is fucked, but you dont care, its only taxpayer money.
People getting into buildings for banner drops, onto the convention floor, cops and RNC couldnt stop terrorist one. There even was a contrived terror arrest the Friday before the convention. How pathetic.

[JSJ]

26. nypd red- thanks for your glowing tribute to an undeserving pack of...

...jackyls.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

24. On the bright side...

With all those fishnet-style arrests, there were bound to be some republicans that were netted, too.

Hopefully, they're now reconsidering their party affiliation.