'Why I turned against America'

[dArKeR]

'There is no greater shame than to see your country occupied'

Early one morning this week, when the police have yet to set up too many checkpoints, Abu Mujahed will strap a mortar underneath a car, drive to a friend's in central Baghdad and bury the weapon in his garden. In the evening he will return with the rest of his group, sleep for a few hours and then take the weapon from its hiding place. He will calculate the range using the American military's own maps and satellite pictures -- bought in a bazaar -- and fire a few rounds at a military base or the US Embassy or at the Iraqi Prime Minister's office. Then Abu Mujahed will shower, change and, by 10am, be at his desk in one of the major ministries.

Last week he sat in a Baghdad hotel speaking to The Observer. A chubby man in his thirties with a shaven head, a brown sports shirt, slacks and a belt with a cheap fake-branded buckle, he gave a chilling account of his life fighting 'the occupation'. He talked for more than three hours and revealed:

http://www.mg.co.za/Content/l3.asp?cg=BreakingNews-InternationalNews&ao=122046&t=1

[barb162]

1. the only thing surprising was the comment about black soldiers

talk about racist

[umtalal]

5. That put a knot in my stomach. Raciest indeed.

and toward the end he said he is not at war with the UK or the USA? Or something to that effect. I find it hard to believe him. But maybe the raciest remark about the "negros" bothered me. By the way, I am not black.

[daleo]

12. I think he means he's not at war with the people of U.S. and U.K.

Obviously he is at war with the occupation soldiers from these countries. I think he is just saying, "leave Iraq and we'll let bygones be bygones".

Which is pretty well what the North Vietnamese said, too. As far as I know they stuck to their word. Since the U.S. pulled out, Viet Nam hasn't projected any great hostility to the U.S. that I am aware of. The same thing could happen with Iraq if the war doesn't go on too long.

The hostility and racism toward black U.S. soldiers seems strange. I guess it shows that racism is a complicated phenomenon worldwide.

[LarryBaker]

21. Point:

The hostility and racism toward black U.S. soldiers seems strange.

Well I'm sorry it shook your standard liberal belief that racism presupposes white skin.

Or wait, I'm not.

[daleo]

25. Actually, it didn't shake any beliefs of mine

Perhaps I should have said "seems strange to a U.S. audience". I have ran across this before. I knew a fair number of Asian (Chinese Malaysian) students when I was an undergraduate in the 1980's. Some of them expressed attitudes to wards blacks that were typical of late 19th century European attitudes. Not that I want to leave any particular impression about Asian attitudes about race in general - the instance I am talking about was obviously confined to a few people at a particular place in time.

I don't know if "racism presupposes white skin" is a standard liberal belief. I don't know if there really are standard liberal beliefs, although there are certainly tendencies to liberal thought. Personally, I don't have this belief. I think the situation is much more complicated than that. For various reasons, though, it seems to me that racism of primarily white countries has been uniquely destructive at times in recent history.

I usually try to avoid wading into this subject very much, as I am Canadian and most people here are American. It seems like the historical experiences of the two countries make it hard to really relate well on the subject. By the way, I am not saying Canada doesn't experience racism of many kinds or that we are better than Americans.

[Terran]

30. Hiding your profile

so I can't tell if you've been banned yet or not. But it won't be long now. I was going to respond to your stupid comment, but it's not worth it.

[justjones]

13. WTF? He's a hop, skip, and a jump from being African himself....

In the eyes of American white racists, he's no better than the "negroes" he speaks of. To specifically target black soldiers is beyond comprehension to me.

This is just a reminder of what is happening in the Sudan...Arabs killing African Muslims. Is there anywhere on the planet where a non-white group doesn't to have one-up on the African to feel superior? Haven't we learned that oppression of one group means potential oppression of all?

[barb162]

22. I think it was/is Sudanese Moslems killing the

Sudanese non-Moslems

[AlanAdam]

29. Currently in Sudan ..

it appears to be Arab Muslims killing Black Muslims (in Darfur). For many previous years it was Arabs Muslims killing Black Christians and Animists.

[ElectroPrincess]

28. It's the right wing's plan "coming together"

This is working out ideally for the right wing radical fringe: Divide and Conquer all us *little people.* (use race, sexual orientation, national identity, sexism, religion ... and you name it :P)

[Warpy]

2. Just like Vietnam

Lots of stories used to be told about examining the bodies of Viet Cong after a firefight and finding somebody you'd trusted, maybe played cards with, or knew from a vendor stall in town. Vets have told me that you never knew which friendly faces during the day would be shooting at you come nightfall. This was the reason for the escalation in atrocity in that war; if we don't get bad of Bush's bad leadership, it could happen in this one.

I just hope Kerry doesn't fall prey to the hubris of Vietnam that said a few more men, some more bombs, and a few million more dollars would make the war winnable. It wasn't then and it won't be now.

[barb162]

8. yeah, in guerilla wars, you don't know who the enemy is

and it partially explains why MyLai and other atrocities like that happened.

[krkaufman]

3. So *why* is he fighting?

admitted that many Iraqis do not support their actions.

Wouldn't it make more sense to allow things to settle down, give the US a deadline to exit, and *THEN* fight back if we don't get the H out?

Continued violence now just gives the US administration an excuse to stay.

[Eloriel]

11. Not really

Continued violence now just gives the US administration an excuse to stay.

Well, maybe, but not a VIABLE excuse.

Guerilla wars are unwinnable, barring genocide (as was the case of the Europeans against Native Americans). That's according to military history. We're doomed, and have been from the get-go. It's just a matter of time. This "war" is unwinnable. The longer we're there under the current circumstances or anything like them, the MORE unwinnable it becomes.

[anakie]

17. and we knew that 18 months ago

n/t

[barb162]

23. but dum-dum didn't know that

and dum-dum didn't listen to anyone who might tell that to him.

[UpInArms]

24. unlike the zombie FOX watching populace in the US

it would appear that some of the Iraqis despise lies

'It gave me a glimpse of a better life. When I heard that the Americans were coming to liberate Iraq I was very happy. I felt that I would be able to live well, travel and have freedom. I wanted to do more sport, get new appliances and a new car and develop my life. I thought the US would come here and our lives would be changed through 180 degrees.'

He spoke of how his faith in the US was shaken when, via a friend's illicitly imported satellite TV system, he saw 'barbaric, savage' pictures of civilian casualties of the fighting and bombing. The next blow came in the conflict's immediate aftermath, as looters ran unchecked through Baghdad.

'When I saw the American soldiers watching and doing nothing as people took everything, I began to suspect the US was not here to help us but to destroy us,' he said.

[krkaufman]

4. "180 degrees"

"I thought the US would come here and our lives would be changed through 180 degrees."

I find it interesting that he got this phrase right; and wonder how our fellow US countrypeople would do.

The former engineering student

That explains it.

[BRLIB]

6. "Wouldn't it make more sense t

"Wouldn't it make more sense to allow things to settle down, give the US a deadline to exit, and *THEN* fight back if we don't get the H out?"

Settle down? When? When all Iraqis accept W as their Lord and Master?

Right! You think the puppet regime would ever give an ultimatum to it's master to get out? 14 military bases, Halliburton,...

[number6]

7. He talked for more than three hours and revealed:

http://www.mg.co.za/Content/l3.asp?cg=BreakingNews-InternationalNews&ao=122046&t=1

....more ..

How it is funded by Iraqis in Europe, including the UK, and from wealthy sympathisers in Saudi Arabia.


How it has rejected any alliance with al-Qaeda affiliated 'foreign fighters' and Shia militia.


How it receives intelligence from 'friends' within the coalition forces.


How it runs a counter-intelligence operation that has resulted in the execution of two suspected spies in recent weeks.


How it is learning increasingly sophisticated techniques and plans to detonate big bombs in Baghdad soon.

<very interesting, but ominus ....>

[rumguy]

9. chilling article

"Black soldiers are a particular target. 'To have Negroes occupying us is a particular humiliation,' Abu Mujahed said, echoing the profound racism prevalent in much of the Middle East. 'Sometimes we aborted a mission because there were no Negroes.'"

He actually talks quite happily about killing Americans.

It's a fucked up situation.

[rumguy]

10. .

"'The US or the UK are not my enemy. I know that any individual US or UK citizen is very good, but we will keep fighting the occupying forces. We have no choice.'"

[Art_from_Ark]

14. This story smells like it came straight out of the cow pasture

If the guy really was carrying a mortar around with him, why the hell would he tell some journalist, and a foreigner at that, about it? For all he knows, giving out that sort of information could get him a visit in the middle of the night. I would think that Iraqis involved in such operations would be rather tight-lipped about it.

[dArKeR]

15. Why do we see TV pics and photo pics of Iraqi men dropping mortar

shells into a launcher aimed at American soldiers but they have nothing hiding their faces? Why were all of the people beating the burned dead bodies of the 3 contractors not hiding their indentity? If you have been browsing through Yahoo pics one could notice that 95% of the Iraqis that have done or are at the moment doing something to kill Americans are NOT wearing anything or hiding who they are.

A topic which I've brought up over the last year. At the time when aWol, Cheney, and Rumsfeld said Iraq was totally in American control and order. As I pointed out, then why aren't these pics we're looking at have the Iraqis trying to hide their identities? Which then led to the fact that Iraq was in total chaos and America had little to no control except to bomb from jets and race Bradleys into areas but the soldiers were not actually out of the Bradleys.

[Art_from_Ark]

19. It's one thing to be an anonymous face in a crowd

It's quite another to be identified by name and occupation

[FlemingsGhost]

16. I'm sorry it's come to this, Abu ... But I understand.

Take your country back. I'm not offended.

(on edit: typo)

[RivetJoint]

20. I'm offended

for all the "Negroes" out there.

[0007]

18. Good article, and it appears that the Iraqis are growing and becoming

stronger with each passing day.

[Blue_Tires]

26. sickening

"Black soldiers are a particular target. 'To have Negroes occupying us is a particular humiliation,' Abu Mujahed said, echoing the profound racism prevalent in much of the Middle East. 'Sometimes we aborted a mission because there were no Negroes.'"

I'm black, and this person just took all the sympathy I had for the tragedy his people went through and ripped it in half..

[Career Prole]

27. A rocket-propelled grenade only costs $17.90? And used to be under

two bucks?! Holy sh*t! We'd better hope they can't get there hands on a pile of cash somewhere.

"The missiles now cost 25,000 Iraqi dinars in markets in Sadr City, the northern Shia Muslim-dominated area of Baghdad -- 10 times the immediate post-war price."

<snip>

'Iraqis' top priority is to provide a good living for their families. I take home less than 250,000 ID (about $179) a month and I have four children."

[Blue_Tires]

31. ttt

that quote will be in my head for a loooonnnngggg time