HUGE! TPM: bush coverup--350 tons of explosives looted in Iraq

[milkyway]

in April 2003 are being used by the insurgents against our troops and Iraqis.

From Josh Marshall at Talking Points Memo, commenting on an article from Nelson Report:

This has been rumored in Washington for several days. And now the Nelson Report has broken the story.

Some 350 tons of high explosives (RDX and HDX), which were under IAEA seal while Saddam was in power, were looted during the early days of the US occupation. Like so much else, it was just left unguarded.

Not only are these super-high-yield explosives probably being used in many, if not most, of the various suicide and car bombings in Iraq, but these particular explosives are ones used in the triggering process for nuclear weapons.

In other words, it's bad stuff.

What also emerges in the Nelson Report is that the Defense Department has been trying to keep this secret for some time, even going so far as to order the new Iraqi government not to inform the IAEA that the materials had gone missing.
<snip>
There was an expectation of a major newspaper story on it this morning, and perhaps also a segment on tonight’s 60 Minutes, on CBS Television. The newspaper report failed to materialize, the TV show may yet appear...stay tuned.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/

[pinerow]

1. Dang...if this administration keeps "fixing" things...we will all be

up the proverbial creek...

[Blaze Diem]

2. Will Bush call US deaths from these explosives "Friendly Fire"??

Glad this is being outed...Where's the freakin outrage..

One more reason to vote against the continuous fuck-up GW Bush.

God save us all!

[punpirate]

3. That would be about...

... 15-20 tractor-trailer loads. Nobody noticed? :eyes:

[leftchick]

8. priorities....

The Oil Ministry needed attention first silly!

[Nikepallas]

4. And that's just one thing Bush Suppresses.

I would love some major news channel come out October 31st or Nov 1st with EVERY report Bush has not aloud the public to hear since getting into office

[DemoTex]

5. If Rummy and his D.O.D. covered this up, Bu$h is totally toast!

"More on this very soon ..." Josh Marshall

I hope so, Josh. This could be the coup de grâce for the Bu$h regime.

[leftchick]

10. they had to have covered this up....

I am sure they had to notice that amount of explosives. They didn't care and hopefully it will be their undoing.

[maddezmom]

13. and the us wants ElBaradei to step down ...hmmmmm

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=926762

[JoFerret]

73. Toast...

...should be. We can hope. Kerry in a landslide.

[w4rma]

6. Incompetence! Incredible incompetence! (nt)

[goforit]

16. I beg to differ.....Totally TREASONOUS!!!!!!

:argh:

[Chicago Democrat]

66. War Crines...This incompetence can be quantified by tracing

to the victims.. Who has been killed by these explosives? I wanna see a list of names! I want every bombing site tested!

This is such BULL!

[Blaze Diem]

7. Was this the WMD's Bush was looking for ?????

What a stupid loser pResident.

Why would ANYONE want four more years of total incompetance!

This Bush Admin. is effing sinful!

[KittyWampus]

Explosives Aren't WMD.

[KittyWampus]

19. Dupe

[maddezmom]

9. from where I'm sitting looks like * has made a whole lot of folks

LESS safe, including the military he sent in there.

[shrdlu]

11. A recently returned reservist with whom...

I watched the last debate spoke of frequently finding unguarded
stocks of munitions and of having no means of dealing with them...no troops for guards...no transport for removal. When I asked why they didn't just blow them up he said they were usually in heavily populated districts.

[Trillo]

54. *Bush's and Rumsfeld's smaller, more agile force. nt

[tinrobot]

12. Materials to make WMDs

So... the explosives could be components of nuclear bombs. The IAEA knew about it and knew where the explosives were located.

...and they were left unguarded.

...yet the Oil Ministry was guarded.

Folks -- even more confirmation that it was NEVER about the WMDs.

[rawstory]

14. What the hell is the nelson report?

[milkyway]

21. It's a private newsletter, highly reputable. Josh cites it frequently.

[goforit]

15. OMG!!!!......IS Bush purposely destroying our military????

OUTRAGEOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bloom]

17. Democracy Now has been showing clips

of a documentary showing barrels of spent nuclear material that was just dumped out by people wherever and reused by them for various things. UGH!!

The military was then - after the fact - trading people new barrels for the old nuclear/toxic waste barrels turned in.


:nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

[KittyWampus]

18. Who Manufacters These Explosives? Anyone Know?

[annabanana]

20. "IAEI"........is................?

[milkyway]

23. International Atomic Energy Agency

[Isere]

22. Kick!

And kick Shrubya out on Nov. 2.

He's the Worst President Ever!

[Fridays Child]

24. How many American soldiers, how many innocent Iraqis...

...have died grisly deaths because these explosives were unguarded? But the Iraqi Oil Ministry building was never in danger, and that's really all that counts. Right? Right?

[sadiesworld]

25. .

[TexasChick]

26. Uh, oh, time to pay the piper, smirk!!!

Jennifer

[BUSHOUT]

27. Well sh#t. n/t

[BeatleBoot]

28. THIS IS HUGE !!!

"What also emerges in the Nelson Report is that the Defense Department has been trying to keep this secret for some time, even going so far as to order the new Iraqi government not to inform the IAEA that the materials had gone missing."


They've been trying to cover this up?

[NVMojo]

46. I said it on another line here but ...

in may, a local Repub who is connected closely with a Nevada Congressman who is connected closely to homeland security and things of that nature was trying to convince me that Bush is my man. He tells me that this congressman (who by the way ...went to Iraq to look for WMD the summer after we invaded Iraq and found nothing) told him that he knew the Bush administration had inside info that WMD stuff was being taken out of Iraq to places like Iran. I laughed, cuz that would mean we did nothing about it this. Now I am wondering if this is what Bush's people found and left it alone because it just wasn't "explosive" enough to cover their arses or ...they wanted to kill, kill, kill, and have things go to hell in a hand basket for some sick ass reason.

[klook]

62. You're correct.

It's 987,435,223 times bigger than Teresa Heinz-Kerry saying Laura Bush never had a real job, and 842,334,109 times bigger than Lynne Cheney being outraged by the compliements Edwards and Kerry paid to her daughter, so maybe it will get a couple of column inches on page A11 tomorrow.

[amber dog democrat]

68. They'd keep it secret for secutiry reasons ?

I don't know what is worse, the utter incompetance or the lying, deception and ... what the hell, These lying murdering idiots have to go .

I am glad to know freedom is on the march over there.

[calimary]

29. Let's keep this one kicked to the top!

And spread out to all our media, too, guys!

[AFSCME girl]

30. Kick again! n/t

:kick:

[AIJ Alom]

31. This is probably the material being used to make IED's

Improvised Explosive Devices which are killing our troops !!!

and

Car bombs which are killing Iraqi civilians and soldiers in droves.

[scottxyz]

32. This is a huge story

So instead of getting rid of weapons, Bush´s little Iraq fiasco has release 350 tons of them out into the Middle East somewhere.

[napi21]

33. Is it possible that ShrubCo could claim this was the WBD's they said

were there? I don't mean to throw cold water on this story, but we all know they manage to turn every story around to make it sound like they are the good guys.

Could they do that with this story?

[demgrrrll]

35. I am sure they will try but if you lose what you supposedly went in for

and your men and women are being killed on a daily basis with the material that you were supposed to secure I think the words complete incompetence might come up too. I thought the same scenario through and I came to the conclusion that if they could have spun this in their favor they would have brought this out a long time ago. Now I see why Kerry has been cautious about his words about the war, using yes, we gave him a loaded gun and he shot himself in the foot. This information does not contradict the Kerry position.

[Spazito]

34. 'Golly gee, it was just one barrel being stolen hundreds of times'

don't you people know that! After all, it was one looted vase shown 20 times on TV, according to Rumsfeld but, don't worry, the Ministry of Oil was fully protected and the oilfields were occupied by the 'good guys' immediately.

[Chomskyite]

36. If this gets network TV and big newspaper play

. . . you can put a fork in Bush. This thing is over.

The story of the guarding of the oil ministry and the lack of guards at arsenals and nuclear materials labs has been around since at least early May of 03. But what's new here is the number.

THREE HUNDRED FIFTY tons?!?!

If this checks out, and if the press grows a pair and runs this . . . Bush is gone.

[Rose Siding]

37. Be sure to read Marshall's ENTIRE entry!!

Looks like techtonic plates are shifting

snip>
The importance of the information? A highly informed official offered the assessment that, “this is the stuff the bad guys have been using to kill our troops, so you can’t ignore the political implications of this, and you would be correct to suspect that politics, or the fear of politics, played a major role in delaying the release of this information.”

3. The Iraqi authorities were caught in a similar bind, observers feel. Under heavy pressure from their sponsors in DOD and US occupation authorities not to cooperate with the IAEA, by confirming that all 350 tons of sealed explosives could not be accounted for, the Iraqi’s had to wait until the formal turnover of authority before notifying the IAEA, sources here suggest. So the Iraqis failed to act until Oct. 10, and the IAEA did not formally notified the US, by letter, until Oct. 15, according to the State Department’s official press guidance.

-- “What the hell WE were doing in the year and a half from the time we knew the stuff was gone, is obviously a huge question, and you can imagine why no one wants to face up to it, certainly not before the election,” an Administration source says. Other sources also noted the language of the State Department guidance, which they interpret as seeking to deflect from the gravity of the situation in two ways: first, by listing hundreds of thousands of tons of other munitions and weapons already discovered and/or destroyed, “the Guidance has the effect, for unsophisticated listeners, of lowering the profile of ‘only’ 350 tons of RDX and HMX explosives from Al Qa Qaa”.

Note: experts were reluctant to say exactly how much of this stuff it takes for a successful road side bomb, for example, but the guesstimates were “a few pounds, at most.” In other words, “with 350 tons out there, the bombing can go on for years...”

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_10_24.php#003777

*gulp*

[demgrrrll]

38. Well I guess they aren't going to give it all back are they. This is

awful on so many levels. What a colossal failure.

[KittyWampus]

41. Doesn't That Stuff Have A Shelf Life? Explosives Degrade, No?

[Rebellious Republican]

47. Not true.............

snip> Additionally, other newer explosive materials contain inhibitors and/or stabilizers that lengthen the shelf life of the products. Some explosive products now contain TNT, Composition "B", Pentolite, Tetryl, RDX, PETN and other military type explosives which are extremely stable over a wide range of conditions for a long period of time. Many of these
products have virtually unlimited shelf life. <snip
http://www.ime.org/shelflife.htm


snip> Semtex is clearly the explosive of choice by international terrorist groups for two reasons. First it is easily available and cost effective. It is considered by many to the best plastic explosive in the world. Semtex uses a crystalline high explosive, combined with a binder of a synthetic styrene-butadiene rubber binder which produces an odorless consistency of Silly Putty or Play Dough. Semtex was invented by Stanislav Brebera who studied at the Prague Technical University and Prague’s Military Technical Institute and in 1950 at the Synthesia chemical company. Although plastic explosives were initially developed in 1887 by Alfred Nobel and later used in the Second World War; Semtex hit the world stage in 1966 with its introduction to Viet Nam by the Communist. Brebera had joined the Communist party in 1945 in Czechoslovakia.

Semtex got its name from Semtin, the village in East Bohemia where Brebera invented it. This extraordinarily stable compound of RDX (Cyclonite) and PETN (Penaerythrite Tetranitrate) slips through airport security scans as easily as a pair of nylons. According to the FBI, Semtex has an indefinite shelf life and is far stronger than traditional explosives such as TNT. It is also easily available on the black market. The Czech government has since taken control of the plant that produces Semtex in hopes of controlling the distribution but most security analyst see this as political window dressing after 9-11. It was revealed in 1989 that the Czechs had exported 900 tons of Semtex to Col. Moammar Qaddafi's Libya and another 1,000 tons to other unstable states, such as Syria, North Korea, Iraq, and Iran. Some experts now put worldwide stockpiles of Semtex at 40,000 tons. After the Lockerbie tragedy, Brebera added metal components and a distinct odor to make Semtex easier to detect. Although the Czech government officially monitors all Semtex sales, there has been a string of sales to Yugoslavia, Iraq, and North Korea. >snip
http://www.survivalguide.com/terrorist_weapons/explosives.htm


snip> In comparison with TNT-based traditional explosives, cast PBX compositions ensure equivalent and even superior level of performances. Furthermore, they bring many useful advantages in terms of vulnerability, life duration, storage and maintenance:

Vulnerability - no detonation in fast cook off (fuel fire), slow cook off (slow heating) or bullet/fragment impact scenarios
Life duration - extended shelf life and operating life (20 years is a minimum)
Life cycle costs - cast PBX charges offer a reduction of safety distances and require no maintenance< snip
http://www.naval-technology.com/contractors/missiles/snpe/

:scared:

[KittyWampus]

49. Hugs For Digging That Up!

:loveya:

Unfortunately, it's not good news, is it... :(

[Rebellious Republican]

55. Nope, scary stuff, thats why this is so big! But hey never fear, at

least our fearless leaders are well protected.

:grr:
(sarcasim off)

[GreenGreenLimaBean]

39. kick it up

wait, you can't bring up any new, potentially DAMNING news 1 week before the election. Thats not FAIR....

[goclark]

40. Bring it up and keep it kicked

[PurityOfEssence]

42. Gosh, they must not have been keeping them at the OIL MINISTRY, huh?

That was literally the only thing we were paying attention to in a struggle that had nothing to do with oil.

Hey, but if you believe your own propaganda, there's no need to safeguard anything dangerous, right?

[hansolsen]

43. If this had happened under Bill Clinton, the Freepers would be so mad

their eyes would glow red in the dark, and they would have been bouncing off the rafters demanding Clinton's head on a platter.

They will forgive Shrub anything, because they are as evil as he is.

[TexasChick]

50. Exactly, we're talking about a lynch mob here if this were Clinton! n/t

[PATRICK]

44. Bush war profiteering dynasty

Ensuring one way or another that the enemies of America will be armed, and good old American help will be directly responsible for the needless death of our soldiers and countless innocent civilians.

Par for the course. Seldom published, never punished.

[bear425]

45. It is clear that * admin has NEVER cared, never will care

what happens to our troops.

[alittlelark]

48. kicking - an important story

[BadMatt22]

51. Kaboooooom..

...this is huge. I'm kinda giddy =)

[truthisfreedom]

52. looks like New York Times is running it tomorrow!

from drudge, sorry:

NYT DEVELOPING EXCLUSIVE FRONT PAGE STORY ON TERRORISTS AND EXPLOSIVES. EDITOR HAS SET LEAD POSITION FOR STORY, NEWSROOM SOURCES TELL DRUDGE... DEVELOPING...

[milkyway]

57. Thanks for venturing through the slime at drudge to find this...

and I just love that pic of mini bush!

[truthisfreedom]

59. thanks! 8^) how about this one?

[Cerridwen]

53. If this makes the Monday morning news - it should be on the

radar all week. We can hope.

I still hope.

[TexasLady]

56. this burns my ass...and kick

OH how i would love to see this on the morning news...if only...

[marigold20]

58. Read post #47 in this thread - interesting and frightening

..

[Rose Siding]

60. Drudge says this is front page NYT tomorrow...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1158438

[JusticeForAll]

61. Why would the IAEA have oversight? Is this considered atomic energy?

eom

[pinkpops]

63. Dual use for detonators

[johnfunk]

64. Yes, since at least one of the explosives is used to trigger nukes

n/t

[Chicago Democrat]

67. And since Zarqawi has this stuff and Osama has Plutonium or U235

Could they assemble a crude nuke?

[Timbuk3]

65. That is just so wrong on so many levels...

First (well, not first, but one of about 23 reasons given for invading), we hear that Iraq was a "threat" because Hussein wasn't disclosing the destruction of his weapons fast enough. Now, we hear that the Bush administration isn't disclosing...not, that's too kind. Not just "not disclosing", but actively HIDING their massive fuck up.

*What* are they hiding? That a weapon that was previously not a threat at ALL (being under IAEA lock and key) is now actually being used to kill Americans, as well as the Iraqis that we were supposedly "saving". (One can only assume we were saving them for our own torture chambers, given the number of innocent Iraqis who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time before being incarcerated at Abuse Graibh.)

And why do "the insurgents and terrorists" have it? Because the Bush administration was more concerned with securing the oil ministry (where, curiously, those oil for food documents were found) than they were with securing the very weapons facilities that we supposedly invaded Iraq to "defend" ourselves from.

And why was this information withheld from the IAEA? Because the Bush administration specifically forbade them from continuing to monitor the site after the invasion. And, once it was discovered missing, because there's enough of that shit missing to kill Americans for YEARS. Not to mention the only thing bin Laden needs to get his hands on now is a milling machine and some plutonium (probably from one of the former Soviet states) to set off that "mushroom cloud over an American city" that they used to cow the American people into accepting their war in the first place.

You're goddammed RIGHT this won't be reported by any of the whore media unless we DEMAND they report it. Not before their king is coronated, again.

But I'm going to make sure that Kerry knows about it.

Bush is an incompetent fool surrounded by even more incompetent idealogues, all supported by a media machine that I WISH was inept but is actually VERY effective at covering his ass.

[Oilwellian]

69. We KNEW where this material was

The IAEA conducted regular inspections of this material for YEARS under Clinton. Why didn't this administration work with the IAEA to be sure these explosives were heavily guarded when we FIRST entered Iraq? THAT is the crux of this scandal.

[Rose Siding]

70. It was unthinkable when we heard about it at the time...

Looking the results in the face is surreal.

They didn't work with anyone because they jealously guard their own power; their own goals are the only ones that matter to them and they lack the competence to accomplish them.

[JoFerret]

71. Here's the NYTimes link

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/25/international/middleeast/25bomb.html?hp&ex=1098676800&en=61cf6e1aa29b7871&ei=5094&partner=homepage

Huge Cache of Explosives Vanished From Site in Iraq
By JAMES GLANZ, WILLIAM J. BROAD and DAVID E. SANGER

Published: October 25, 2004


This article was reported and written by James Glanz, William J. Broad and David E. Sanger.

BAGHDAD, Iraq, Oct. 24 - The Iraqi interim government has warned the United States and international nuclear inspectors that nearly 380 tons of powerful conventional explosives - used to demolish buildings, produce missile warheads and detonate nuclear weapons - are missing from one of Iraq's most sensitive former military installations.

The huge facility, called Al Qaqaa, was supposed to be under American military control but is now a no-man's land, still picked over by looters as recently as Saturday. United Nations weapons inspectors had monitored the explosives for many years, but White House and Pentagon officials acknowledge that the explosives vanished after the American invasion last year.

The White House said President Bush's national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, was informed within the past month that the explosives were missing. It is unclear whether President Bush was informed. American officials have never publicly announced the disappearance, but beginning last week they answered questions about it posed by The New York Times and the CBS News program "60 Minutes."

American weapons experts say their immediate concern is that the explosives could be used in major bombing attacks against American or Iraqi forces: the explosives, mainly HMX and RDX, could be used to produce bombs strong enough to shatter airplanes or tear apart buildings. The bomb that brought down Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, in 1988 used less than a pound of the material of the type stolen from Al Qaqaa, and somewhat larger amounts were apparently used in the bombing of a housing complex in November 2003 in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, and the blasts in a Moscow apartment complex in September 1999 that killed nearly 300 people.
<more>

[milkyway]

72. UPDATE FROM JOSH at 8:24pm est:

It is apparently widely believed within the US government that those looted explosives are what in many, perhaps most, cases is being used in car bombs and suicide attacks against US troops. That is, according to TPM sources and sources quoted in this evening's Nelson Report, where the story first broke.
<snip>
In response to questions about whether the material might have been smuggled out of Iraq, another source told Nelson, "It’s still in Iraq, and this is the most likely primary source of the explosives which have been used to blow up Humvees and in all the deadly car bomb attacks since the Occupation began.”
<snip>
As I've noted, the White House and the Pentagon have known for more than a year that this stuff had gone missing. But the White House, according to TPM sources, has known that this story was coming for at least ten days. Again, not just the underlying facts -- that the stuff had been stolen and was being used against American troops (they've known that for more than a year) -- but the fact that this story was going to break in the not too distant future. And they've been going to great lengths to try to push it back until after the election.

As another administration source told Nelson, "What the hell were WE doing in the year and a half from the time we knew the stuff was gone, is obviously a huge question, and you can imagine why no one wants to face up to it, certainly not before the election."

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/

This will be the last nail in the coffin.

[maddezmom]

75. and Condi's on record knowing for a month, but not sure * knows

isn't that her f'ing job :eyes:

[JoFerret]

74. This is how powerful the stuff is

<<The bomb that brought down Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, in 1988 used less than a pound of the material of the type stolen from Al Qaqaa....>
(from the NYTimes article)

[Moderator]

76. It's time to lock this now

Looks like we have two competing discussions going.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x929463

[NastyRiffraff]

77. Looting as late as Saturday...and Condi knew

From the Times article:

The huge facility, called Al Qaqaa, was supposed to be under American military control but is now a no-man's land, still picked over by looters as recently as Saturday. United Nations weapons inspectors had monitored the explosives for many years, but White House and Pentagon officials acknowledge that the explosives vanished after the American invasion last year.

The White House said President Bush's national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, was informed within the past month that the explosives were missing. It is unclear whether President Bush was informed.

-----------
So, we have explosives "vanishing" (nice word) after the American invasion...a year ago. And Condi being informed "within the past month." And looting going on as late as yesterday. And Incurious George clueless as usual.

This is way beyond the usual incompetence...this is criminal.