MSNBC TV reports US Troops just blew up Mosque in Fallujah

[Tesibria]

on TV - will add link as soon as it's available. Report was from embed.

--------------------
Tesibria ~ www.democracyiscoming.com
www.cafepress.com/tesibria.com (All proceeds go to buy PROGRESSIVE books and magazines for small town ("red") library.)

[dbt]

1. Next step is Fatwa

Even al-Sistani has his tipping point. Our troops are now in the Meat Grinder--and they are surrounded by the Faithful.

:scared:
dbt

[Teaser]

8. asSistani doesn't care much about Fallujah.

He's out for himself and Shi'ah authority.

[Zynx]

13. Yeah, Sunni mosque = no fatwa

Shi'a mosque = fatwa

[baldguy]

2. Workin' hard to win the hearts & minds, huh?

[Khephra]

3. Well, that action alone probably created 1000 new "terrorists"

:crazy:

[dbt]

4. al-jazeera: "Almost half the mosques in Fallujah destroyed"

Almost half of the mosques in the Iraqi city of Falluja have been destroyed as US warplanes launch air strikes and fierce fighting on the ground continues.

An Iraqi journalist told Aljazeera that US forces on Wednesday resumed attacks on the city, targeting Julan in the northwest to al-Jughaivi in the northeast.

Fadil al-Badrani said there are an estimated 120 mosques in the city.



I live in a Rogue Nation!

:grr:
dbt

[SkipNewarkDE]

5. Insurgents Know What They Are Doing

The fact of the matter is that the insurgents are stockpiling weapons and hiding out in the mosques. The sad fact is that at that point, they cease to be holy shrines in the eye of the military, and become military targets.

The downside is that the insurgency can then play the "religious war" card, when it is they, themselves that turned these mosques into targets.

[liberalmuse]

7. What are we doing in Iraq again?

I'd do the same if some asshole nation invaded my country for no goddamned good reason. Really, why defend our military's action? It's indefensible--the entire war is one huge war crime. You don't fucking EVER destroy a mosque if you don't want trouble for generations to come.

I'm really sick of the 'Cheney' defense. These people have a right to defend their country from looters, torturers and murderers BY WHATEVER MEANS POSSIBLE. But I suppose the racists in this country don't want the Arabs to have half a chance. Liberators my ass! More like chickenshit cowards who use the most up-to-date weapons against a lower developed nation, and then act like it's some kind of victory.

The U.S.' "finest" have taken it upon themselves to mow down the people of Iraq indescrimanately-- 'I got me a real juicy target', while looting it's treasures and marking up walls of ancient buildings with trite American slogans. This war is a mother fucking atrocity. Karma's going to be a bitch for this one.

[OneTwentyoNine]

55. Ahh...just think,endless War,FAT FUCKING defense contracts for DECADES..

Ya know,all the good stuff that really gives Republicans woodies.

[getoffmytrain]

63. What

would you prefer our military do, line up a la 1863 with single shot muskets so we can have a fair fight? Thank god we have superior military weaponry, I want as many of our soldiers to come home ALIVE as possible.

[illuminaughty]

71. We're only there because we do have the most outrageously

superior military. We wouldn't be fighting this war if the odds were close to even. No North Korea, No China. Just the countries we can bully, and insert a puppet government.

Nobody wants Am. soldiers to die. The point is that these are atrocities being committed. This administration is responsible for these war crimes. And they don't care how many die on either side.

[Tesibria]

9. Yes - the thing is - re: the MSNBC Embed story

.. which I still can't find on the web yet .. the REASON for blowing it up was NOT b/c they suspected insurgents in, but because it was "in the way" - and they wanted to clear that area.

Now -- the Embed MAY have gotten it wrong. I don't know. But I was suprised because he did NOT give the standard "insurgents were hiding there" story.

--------------------
Tesibria ~ www.democracyiscoming.com
www.cafepress.com/tesibria.com (All proceeds go to buy PROGRESSIVE books and magazines for small town ("red") library.)

[jmcgowanjm]

22. Mosques reporting 34 captured US

Can't have that.

Reports aljazeera,al arabya have tape of captured
soldiers, won't show it. Fear of US retaliation.

Tuesday, 9 November 2004.

Al-Fallujah.

Resistance counter attacks strike US supply lines
force American armor
to retreat north of railroad tracks.

In a dispatch posted at 2:25am Wednesday morning local
time (1:25am
Wednesday Mecca time) the al-Fallujah correspondent
of Mafkarat
al-Islam reported that after US forces had succeeded in
driving into
northern al-Fallujah, Resistance forces from outside the
city
surprised the attacking Americans with an intense
barrage, forcing
them to retreat to the north for fear of being cut
off.

Noticed I wasn't seeing much on Fox,CNN
this AM. But isn't that juror on the Peterson
trial interesting.

[KingChicken]

10. Why don't we just dishonor their women too?

We've trampled on everything sacred to the Iraqis, why don't we just rape and kill all the women too that would really round things out. We Americans are asking for a world of hell, our technology can't save us from the monster we are creating, this shit is extremely dangerous! GET OUT OF IRAQ NOW, SIMPLE! NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW!!!!!

[thecrow]

12. Uh didn't we alradey do that at Abu Ghraib?

and their teenage boys?
Apparently that didn't work

[jwcomer]

36. Great idea!

That ought to boost moral for our troops. And as an added plus, if it is known state-side that raping their women and children is AOK, then you can be sure to expect the elistment targets to be blown out of the water. While we are at it, we should throw in the right to keep whatever our soldiers loot. It'll work just as well today as it has for the last 5000 years. Why have forced conscription when you can give aggressors what they really want. Besides, if we are destined to go out the way of the Romans, we should at least do it style!

[JNelson6563]

19. The trained chimp called it a Crusade

and by golly he's got one now!

Julie

[WyLoochka]

23. It IS a "religious war"

It's Fundie Christians vs Fundie Muslims warring over the injustices committed by and on behalf of Fundie Jews and, on the Fundie Christians part, striving to trigger Armageddon.

All three stupid, easily brainwashed elements are being taken advantage of and manipulated by the neo feudalist imperialist neocons.

And then there are the enablers. People who do not support either the Fundie agenda nor the neo imperialist agenda yet voted to give them even more power anyway. These are the ones I personally hold most responsible and whom I regard with complete and utter contempt, for they had thousands of reasons right in front of their eyes to vote to take power away from them and restore governance by the rational.

[DoYouEverWonder]

16. I bet Saddam's old Weapons Development Facilities

are still intack? Didn't want to bother to destroy those sites, now did we? Otherwise the insurgents wouldn't be able to arm themselves, so we can have an excuse to blow them up, now would we?


You can't follow Jesus
If you choose to follow Bush

PBWY
DYEW

[Pachamama]

67. Love your sig line....should be the tag line for the dems

You can't follow Jesus
If you choose to follow Bush

[0007]

25. Boycott call

"In a move that could potentially undermine the 27 January polls, the Sunni body, the Association of Muslim Scholars (AMS), urged a boycott.

"The clerics call on the ... people of Iraq to boycott the coming elections that they want to hold on the remains of the dead and the blood of the wounded from Iraqi cities like Falluja and others," Harith al-Dhari, its top official, said.

Residents say scores of civilians died and for those struggling to live in the city, life is grim."

IMHO Iraq would do best if they pulled a Gandhi, like in India.

[helpisontheway]

37. I'm sorry but if

the insurgents want to hide out in those areas then we have every right to go in after them. They are the ones using a religious place for military purposes. If going after those places is what makes are troops safer then that is what we need to do. If we did not have that idiot for a president we wouldn't be in this mess to begin with but we do and we are so we must finish it.

[Crunchy Frog]

39. Yes, we have every right to.

After all, it is our country. We can do whatever the hell we want to there.

[truth2power]

49. So the Iraqis have no right

to fight for their homeland??? So if another country invaded the US, they would have every right to go anywhere they choose to root out those bad ol' Americans that don't want them to take over??

Oh....never mind. This issue has been beaten to death here. Some people just don't seem to get it.

WE ARE THE INVADERS!! :argh:

[timtom]

69. Right on, truth2power!

In fact, I refuse to lend any authenticity to this shameful action and will NOT call it a "war"! This is nothing less than an immoral and illegal invasion, occupation, and conquest. Beyond geopolitical and economic driving factors, there is NO justification for this monstrous evil.

And, for those who might have missed my outing on the "My name is..." thread, I am Thomas Edmon Brown, former sergeant in the U. S. Marine Corps.

Oh, and by the way, if these birds want to claim some sort of "religious justification," then know this:

The mighty hand of G-D is now poised against this nation.

I fear for America as never before.

[truth2power]

76. I am as sure of this as anyone can be....

"The mighty hand of G-D is now poised against this nation.
I fear for America as never before."

I said this, in substance, to my friends and family LONG BEFORE 9/11. I said this nation had a sh*tload of karma coming down the pike because of the atrocities we had committed in other countries in the service of greed.

Then came 9/11. Since then,the atrocities we've inflicted on the innocent have increased a hundred fold. I shudder to think of what we're going to experience if there's any justice in the world.

********

Here's to the DUer who posted a prayer which was handed out after mass several weeks ago. Sorry, don't remember who he/she is.

I reformatted it, added a small graphic, and stuck it on my bulletin board -- suitable for framing.

A snip>

"Give us a government that provides for the advancement of this country without taking resources from others to achieve it."

"Give us insight enough ourselves to choose as leaders those who can tell strength from power, growth from greed, leadership from dominance, and real greatness from the trappings of grandiosity."

[Carolina]

56. bullshit, we have no business being there PERIOD!

It's their country, they did not attack us or threaten us and goddammit they have every right to use whatever means necessary to fight back. Would we not do they same if the shoe were on the other foot?

We are wrong here, we are the aggressor, the invader and the occupier.
Yes, I feel for the soldiers but my heart aches at what has been done and continues in our name against the Iraqi people. And we shall have hell to pay for this horror.

[Rene]

57. Isn't a place of worship usually a SANCTUARY

Where else are the Iraqi defenders going to go so they're not killed?

Have you seen the pictures.....they're raggedy, poorest of the poor, living in the slums of Fallajuh.

I remember reading that Fallajuh is an e x t r e m e l y important city to all muslims world wide.

This slaughter is pointless. Where are the worlds peacemakers clamoring for this madness to stop?

[mitchum]

58. And they keep placing themselves under our bombs!

What is wrong with those people? Why don't they just welcome an invading army with cheers and chocolate bars? Sullen ingrates!

[saigon68]

72. we must finish it (your words)

FINISH WHAT?

Killing every Muslim in Iraq?

Blowing them to bits?

The CRUSADE?

please please tell me now !!!!!

[illuminaughty]

73. We don't even have a right to be in their country

And we just bombed a medical clinic that was used as a back up when we bombed the hospital. We killed 20 in the medical clinic. Do we have every right to go after them there?

I've heard the bullshit that they were using the hospital for cover so we had to secure it and take it over. The military video feed looked like the Jessica Lynch video.

International news is telling a much different story, but of course our media is a bastion of truth

[liberalmuse]

6. I suppose if Muslims...

came over here and blew up our churches (nevermind slaughtered our children in the streets), that wouldn't be a big deal, either. WTF are they thinking???

We're going to see WWIII, and Bush is going to be 100% responsible. It's time to break out the cold war era, 'Put Your Head Between Your Knees And Kiss Your Ass Goodbye' posters again. We are fucking toast with this "moran" in charge.

[NicRic]

11. Yes bush is a moran ,however.....

he has surrouded himself with very smart people! Thats what I was told when I was in shock over a friend telling me he was voting for bush .I told him ,I cannot believe you cant see how stupid this man is. He said yes I know he cant pronouce words like necular(or spell it HEHE) , however he has good people around him thatare smart. Well,so far the results of having these smart people around him is not so good , so far all I see is a F/U situation in every aspect of bush governing this country. I think its more like birds of a feather flock together. The whole group are A-1 idiots !One thing I have to give them credit for being good at ,is stealing elections ,they seem to have that down to a science !

[DBoon]

24. Hitler did the same thing

A complete lunatic who surrounded himself with the best.

Didn't help him in the end.

[jimbo fett]

14. I wonder how many terrorists that just recruited?

[marew]

15. And we don't think that they'll come after us someday, somehow

I can't understand how a real Christian can back this war and all that is horrible that goes with it. As so many have said , Bush is the best recruiter Bin Laden ever had. Not to mention it is mostly the children of our working class and poor who are fighting and dying. If this is so important to Bush's "morals" why aren't his daughters leading the fight? Many, many young people of the same age are giving their lives for Bush's sick preoccupation with being a "war president." I am sure history will view this man as a psycho!

[Twillig]

17. Has everybody seen "Voice of the Prophet?"

http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/af/content/voice_prophet
A truly chilling example of foreshadowing, The Voice of the Prophet is an interview with Rick Rescorla, the head of security for the investment firm Morgan Stanley Dean Witter. Filmed on the 44th floor of the World Trade Center in 1998, Rescorla details the future of warfare long before Osama bin Laden became America's Most Wanted.

A retired Army colonel, veteran of combat in three wars and a survivor of the 1993 bombing of the twin towers (in which he saved the lives of hundreds of Morgan Stanley employees), Rescorla was killed in the WTC attacks of September 11, 2001. In this interview, Rescorla all but predicts the events that lead up to the September 11 attack and the war on terrorism that followed.

"And finally I would say the residue of hatred that this is creating in these foreign countries where we're doing these things--and we don't feel there are any repurcussions--those people should think about the World Trade Center bombing and things of this nature. Things will come home to roost. And they may be twenty years later of cavalier actions that we're taking now out there.

We can't even straghten up our capital, in terms of crime, and we think we can go out there and be the worlds top cop.

It's impossible."

RIP

[smirkymonkey]

21. I remeber reading an article about Rescorla a while back,

Why is it that the wise and the good always get destroyed in this world? Very tragic.

[MountainLaurel]

45. Ironic

That he and John O'Neill, who left the FBI railing against the Bushistas stonewalling of the investigation of the USS Cole bombing, both died in the WTC on 9/11.

[smirkymonkey]

47. Yeah, what a coincidence.

:crazy:

[DuaneBidoux]

18. Oh yea' that'll be good reading for Iraqi kid's in school history books.

[leesa]

20. Next step on Bush's road to Armageddon

Bush IS the anti-Christ.

[illuminaughty]

74. My Christian friends (not fundies)

believe this. He sure fits the profile

[henslee]

26. Now its miller time.

[flordehinojos]

27. O, God! What wrath has the bush administration now incurred upon?

Aren't mosques held sacred places in Arab nations?

When bombs start to fall afresh on us... bush, his mommy, his poopy, his stepford wife and their twins and the rest of the bush family will be hunkered down deep in some underground bunker. we are the ones who will be paying for his carnage.

[daleo]

28. Before the election, the U.S. was kind of careful about mosques

Now, it looks like they have ditched that caution. One wonders how much the U.S. election result has ramped up the "holy war" nature of the occupation. The fact that a Catholic church was burnt down in Baghdad a week or so ago reinforces this impression.

[americanstranger]

29. Oh, they've ramped it up, all right.

There have been stories here for the past week - a commander saying 'The enemy has a face, and it's the face of Satan, and it's in Falluja...', tanks with crosses hanging from the gun turrets, Marines praying for Jesus' protection as they go into battle...

This is Bush's crusade. And no way is it going to be confined to Iraq, after the condust of our side in the past week. IMO.

-as

[daleo]

34. I had forgotten those overt religious gestures

The "Ben-Hur" re-enactment thing was also weird and troubling. I can't recall the movie that well, but I recall that it had some pretty heavy religious overtones as well, not to mention Charlton Heston. Plenty of messages to the faithful there, I should think.

[Pert_UK]

30. I heard good reports from an embedded BBC reporter today

He was with US soldiers and said that they were being very, very careful to avoid shooting at mosques where possible and weren't entering them - they were waiting for Iraqi troops to come and enter mosques once the US troops had secured them from the outside.

Apparently the troops weren't even shooting at people leaving the mosques if they couldn't see that they were armed.

However, he did point out that US troops were firing at mosques if and only if they were being sniped at or facing RPGs coming out of them. Apparently you're allowed to return fire against an enemy who's holed up in a holy building, but you're not allowed to attack them willy-nilly.

[DemBones DemBones]

32. That's good news. I hope he's correct and that

U.S. troops are not being reckless in this siege of Fallujah.

[daleo]

35. al-jazeera: "Almost half the mosques in Fallujah destroyed"

From another post. It is possible that the BBC embed may be given a Potemkin Village view of things. I don't think that would be very hard to do with an embed.

[Minstrel Boy]

31. Naturally! That's where Satan lives.

[Walt Starr]

33. This is why Shinkeski wanted 400,000 pairs of boots on teh ground

Cut off the insurgents from their escape routes. Then kill them.

[dkofos]

38. I feel a Mogadeshu moment coming.

[Chimpanzee]

40. Move along now! There's nothing to see here!!

[DrWeird]

41. I wonder if US troops were flying the confederate flag.

Because there's a history involving destruction of churches. You know, they were being used to house dangerous voting pamphlets and were used as control centers for coordinating the rape of our white wommin.

[Javaman]

42. Don't worry, we'll build you a new one, sorry if it looks....

like a baptist church when we are done.

[hangloose]

43. Nothing new here our forces have damaged or distroyed about 50%

of the 1,200 mosque in fallujah to date. I'm looking for a word.....blowback...yep.....blowback.

[VegasWolf]

44. Just proving to the peasants that awol's god is bigger than their god!

[hangloose]

46. The only problem with that is, there's 1billion you need to convince

[malaise]

48. Hmmmmmmmmm

Some of these mosques are older than the United States.
What is wrong with these people - in the middle of the people's holy month. Is Oil worth this?

[hangloose]

51. It's about capitulation to the will of the U.S. (liberators!!)

[Moloch]

50. This is terrible!

I'm beginning to think invading Iraq was a bad idea...

[BlueManDude]

52. ahhhh the crusade rolls on...

thanks awol for making me and my family less safe.

[B Calm]

53. The battle of Fallujah timing is a a diversion from BBV!

[jmcgowanjm]

75. BBV update for those diverted by Fallujah

results should be practically “bullet proof.”

It is important that people know how accurate random
sampling of historical events can be in order for them
to understand how unlikely it is that the exit polls were wrong.
So if you want to fight the battle correctly, you must get
more statisticians and forensic accountants involved as well
as the lawyers. These statisticians can show with
great credibility the probability of manipulation within
the computer programs used for counting the ballots. They
do
this kind of work all the time to uncover fraud based
upon computer manipulation in commercial and
corporate activities. And these types of expert analyses
are admissible in a court of
law.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/DRO411A.html

Impeachment is Imperative

Bush can run, but he cannot hide from the Constitution

by Ramsey Clark

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CLA411A.html

[GiovanniC]

54. You Know, Maybe It Would Help Chimpy

If there was something he could relate this to in "Texas Terms".

I mean, if only there was some place in Texas history where a group of rebellious freedom fighters fought against tyranny and oppression, despite being grossly outgunned, outnumbered, surrounded, and doomed to die in that very place, only for those freedom fighters to become folk heroes and inspire many others to fight back even fiercer with a battle cry of remembrance.

But, nah... that never happened.

[mitchum]

59. But the insurgents in Fallujah aren't trying to establish a slave state

unlike those brave defenders of the Alamo

[GiovanniC]

64. Bunch of Fuckin' Underachievers

[mitchum]

65. LOL!!!

:)

[AlFrankenFan]

60. And that makes them like us even more

Nice one. :eyes:

[getoffmytrain]

61. When you shoot

from a mosque and stock pile weapons in them... what do you think the Marines are going to do, ask them to kindly stop?

Hopefully, every rebel shooting at OUR soldiers (and the ones who intended to) was killed.

[Nihil]

68. Get "YOUR" soldiers out of Iraq if you don't want them killed.

If they are invading, expect them to get killed by the Iraqi defenders.
If you object to this, get them OUT.

Either way, quit the shit about how the Marines are "justified".

[Demrock6]

77. Hey it was not our troops choice to go to war!

Many of them signed up to defend America. It is Bush's misuse of power that is the problem, not the troops! The troops need to get the mess cleaned up ASAP. They did not make this mess, but them brave men and women are putting their life on the line to clean it up. I am relatively new to the board because I am a democrat and I like a lot of the stuff I see here. I do not like it when someone says American troops should die for being over their.

Don't get me wrong I want them all to come home. But it just won't realistically happen until the job is done

[MeanAndGreen]

79. I'm all for no war but our Marines we right in this case

And these "defenders" as you call them are only defending their desire to abuse women, rule people via Islam, prevent freedom of thought. I would have thought any progressive DUer would never defend the insugeterrorist desire to abuse people based on a distorted view of their religion.

[Nihil]

80. Hmmm "our Marines we right" ?

They are defenders not "insugeterrorist" (one of Georgie's words?)
They are defending their desire to live, their desire for their family
to survive, their desire for a future. They have been starved for over
a decade, denied medical aid and bombed on a regular basis throughout
that time. In the last few years they have seen their cities turned
to rubble, their power/water/sanitation plants deliberately destroyed
and their children turned to bloody pulps.

Are you surprised that they don't like the American "liberators"?

Any male over 15 has been refused the chance to leave the city.
By your logic, that makes every one of them an abuser of women,
an Islamic censor and a terrorist. "Progressive" isn't a term that
I'd use to describe that pattern of thought.

I guess you must be happy about the "low civilian collateral damage"
and the amazing number of "militants" that have been so precisely
targeted in their place. Gee, the wonders of high tech weapons.

[JSJ]

70. yes, kill all the rightful owners of their country

[RPM]

62. Winning Hearts and Minds n/t

[Amigust]

66. Satellite images of Falluja - click on the image.

[Is It Fascism Yet]

78. 100percenter.com has a link right to this thread

and they call us morons for celebrating veterans day...when so many here are veterans, boy, these neocons are so hateful that even when you let them cheat 2 elections, and give them their goddamn shrub in the white house, they are still screeching like harpies, what more can they want, they have their shrub, but are still the same old vitrioloic bastards. Methinks they protest too much, if they "really won" the election, exactly what are they bitching about now?