Kerry rejects call for Iraq troop withdrawal

[IndianaGreen]

Kerry rejects call for Iraq troop withdrawal
Defeated Democratic candidate on “Meet the Press”
By Bill Van Auken
1 February 2005

For any of his erstwhile supporters who cling to illusions about what might have been had the vote gone a bit differently on November 2, the defeated Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry provided a definitive answer Sunday.

Appearing on the NBC television news program “Meet the Press,” Kerry was shown a videotape of his fellow Massachusetts senator, Edward Kennedy, calling for a timetable for the withdrawal of US troops from Iraq, beginning with the immediate removal of at least 12,000.

“Do you agree with Senator Kennedy that 12,000 American troops should leave at once?” asked NBC’s Tim Russert.

“No,” replied Kerry.

“Do you believe there should be a specific timetable of withdrawal of American troops?” Russert continued.

“No,” Kerry repeated.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/feb2005/kerr-f01.shtml

[Sandpiper]

1. Get ready for the Kerry apologists to flame the hell out of you

n/t

[IndianaGreen]

3. If they wanted a war hero as a nominee, they should have gone with Clark

Wes Clark would not have thrown the towel like Kerry did, and he speaks clearly and forcibly on the issues.

[sally343434]

2. Well, there you are

Let's face it. The only thing Kerry really had going for him was he was ABB. His IWR vote proved that. Now we see him for the stalking horse he always was.

Imagine what could have been had the democrats had a "real" candidate instead of Kerry -- the Potemkin candidate.

It's amazing what projection will make people believe about another person.

[Dirk39]

4. Didn't "I report for Duty" - Kerry promised right before the election...

to send more "Freedom-Fighters" to Iraq, if he is winning the election?

He has no reasons to betray any voters, 'cause there weren't enough of them (or enough of them counted).

At least he's solid and he announced this, before he did lose (or not lose) the election.

Bush did break it, we own it....

I have to admit, as a leftist in Germany, who didn't have much hope that Kerry would change anything at all: at least he seems to be much more upright and credible than Clinton ever was. Much more credible.
He seemed to know very well under which limited conditions he would have been allowed to act, in case he becomes the president of the USA and he didn't promise much more. He didn't promise much to the working class of the USA, but maybe at least he would have done, what he has promised. And he never attacked those on welfare as cynical as Clinton did.
I would not have voted for Kerry, if I would be an American - kill me, I'm not an American so it doesn't matter anyway: But on the other hand, I don't see any reason to offend Kerry for being bigot.
And besides, the silent work, Kerry has done, when he was just sitting in the congress as a Senator(?) is very impressive. I did read a lot of this stuff, although I'm German and it might sound a bit strange, doing something like this. I can only highly recommend to any American Leftists to study the work Kerry did, when he was one of the most important members of a commission of inquiry within the U.S. congress to study and reveal the activities of the U.S.A during the Reagan-Times.


Maybe someone like Clinton would have promised to stop the war before the election but would have sent thousands of soldiers more after he did win, but whatever one might think about Kerry: he's not a cynical "postmodern" liar like Clinton.
I don't expect much from our "elites" anyway, but maybe with Kerry the unbearable cynicism of the Clinton-Era would have been stopped within the democratic party. And sometimes little changes mean a lot.
Just my personal perspective from far far away.


Hello from Germany,
Dirk

[msgadget]

5. The US has an obligation to the Iraqi citizens.

As much as I HATE our soldiers being there, they can't just leave innocent Iraqis to fend for themselves in a country we ripped apart.

[Dirk39]

7. You break it - you own it!

Bomb another country to the ground. Kill 100.000 innocent civilians and kill I don't know how many soldiers.
The result: "We can't leave them to fend for themselves!"

What about sending the UN there - a UN that is liberated from US-hegemony - if necessary. And paying 2 or 3 times the money that was spend, destroying Iraq, to rebuild it.
400 or 500 billion dollars would be a start.


And throw all U.S. corporations out of Iraq. And allow them to nationalize their oil and make it a public god.

What about this?
And later we can talk about extraditing Powell and Bush and Rumsfeld and Rice to Iraq, where they get a fair trial?!

Dirk

[Maat]

31. Not a bad plan, Dirk39.

n/t

[aneerkoinos]

8. Yankee go home

First of all Iraqis are not innocent, nobody is. Least of all the most innocent people in the world, citizens of USA.

Better you stop RIGHT NOW thinking that today's US is able play anything but totally irresponsible malignant role in the world, which is the basic requirement for having "obligations" - sociopath like Corporate US does not qualify for an entity cabable of having obligations.

In more prosaic terms and secifically in Iraq, US can do nothing but make the situation worse, it is the problem, not the solution.

Kerry (like Clinton) just represents Washington Imperialism with dose of realism and intelligence, corporate imperialism with human face. I'm glad Bush won, by their hubristic incompetence the neocons are much more likely to bring US and the Empire down ASAP. Which gives true progressive forces in US a fighting chance for building a better society from ashes of Corporate Fascism.

[msgadget]

22. I already considered that the US is more the cause of their problems

than the heroic solution.

After proving the power of pre-emption w absolutely cannot walk away from the Tinkertoy he's made of Iraq.

Considering his history of 'bold', misguided action with no consequences, I'm not optimistic but he's gotta OWN this mistake rather than pass it on to unprepared people who didn't ask for his 'intervention' any damned way.

[aneerkoinos]

23. Why can't W?

W is obviously sociopath and cannot be held responsible for his actions. You can expect W not to "walk away" and "own this mistake" until kingdom come, and while waiting for "justice" to happen you will just get frustrated and annoyed and accomplish nothing.

Some facts are better just to acknowledge and accept. Action leading to change follows dropping false hopes and moral expectations about others, and accepting reality as it is.

[msgadget]

24. Awe man, you're saying what's in the back of my mind.

He will once again screw something up and walk away bragging about how bold he was...and people will continue to pat him on the back for it.

So, what do you think will happen to our world relations and the children of Iraq if the troops just pack up and leave?

[aneerkoinos]

25. Frankly

I'm more worried what will happen to my children in a world ravaged by climate change and post Peak-Oil energy wars IF US empire is not swiftly dismembered and US does not quickly loose it's dominating global position, because US is not only the biggest consumer of fossile energy and polluter of atmosphere, but also the biggest obstacle against global enviromental regulation.

So Bush and the Congress (with no major difference between the two parties) are not only screwing up the Liberal Dream in US, more importantly US by her continued irresponsibility and reckless greed is screwing up the future of the world and putting the well-being of all children, including mine, in more jeopardy than what is already unavoidable. Naturally, US is not the only culprit, only the biggest and most influential one.

[msgadget]

27. And, I'm more concerned that I leave a world governed by multi-national

corporations to my children. They are truly the root of the evils that are upon us - Peak oil and climate change included. However (maybe because I've hit my head one too many times) I remain optimistic about the future. Anything is possible, even a better world, as long as we remain awake and actively engaged.

[aneerkoinos]

29. Yes

I'm fully with you. Let's kill them evil corporate legal persons!

[aneerkoinos]

26. On a more positive note

The Chinese graphic for 'crisis' consists of two graphics, one for word 'danger', the second for 'opportunity'.

[ladjf]

16. Yes, we can leave them to fend for themselves.

They couldn't do any worse than they are doing now.

[oblivious]

6. Just goes to show--the American elite are the smartest elite in the world.

They've convinced so many low-wage workers that unions are bad for them.

They've convinced so many white-collar workers that oursourcing to other countries is good for them.

They control the two main political parties and somehow make the voters think there is a difference.

They use the press for their own propaganda purposes and somehow get the masses to believe they have a feee press.

They get the less fortunate to fight their wars for the profit of the elite.

They toss out their war heros when they can't fight anymore and tens of thousands more sign up for the same.

In countries like the Philippines and China, the masses at least know they are being used and manipulated, but they accept that there is nothing they can do about it. In America, they don't have a clue.

I'm in awe!

[ladjf]

17. Great post by oblivious.

[bemildred]

20. Awesome perceptual acuity. nt

[oblivious]

30. Thank you for replying ladjf and bemildered.

It really helps to know people like you are around.

[pamela]

9. That article leaves out a lot...

KERRY: "I understand exactly what Senator Kennedy is saying, and I agree with Senator Kennedy's perceptions of the problem and of how you deal with it.

In fact, last summer, if you'll recall, I said specifically that if we did the things that I laid out -- the training, the international community, the services and reconstruction, and the elections and protection -- we could draw down troops and begin to withdraw them.

I think what Senator Kennedy is saying -- and here I do agree with him -- is that it is vital for the United States to make it clear that we are not there with long-term goals and intentions of our presence in the region. I agree with Senator Kennedy that we have become the target and part of the problem today, if not the problem.

Now, obviously, you've got to provide security and stability in order to be able to turn this over to the Iraqis and to be able to withdraw our troops. So I wouldn't do a specific timetable, but I certainly agree with him in principle, that the goal must be to withdraw American troops."

[WildEyedLiberal]

10. Your logic is getting in the way of a perfectly good rant

Why actually quote the interview in context when it's so much easier to screech about corporate fascist American imperialist pigs and how pervasive they are in the Democratic party?

</sarcasm>

[oblivious]

11. That sounds pretty much like what Bush is saying.

Train Iraqi troops, get the international community involved, get services back and running, build schools, hold elections, kill all the bad guys, don't stay a day longer than necessary....

Even with the context, I see no difference. There is no difference. You can dream and wish and imagine, but there is no difference.

[pamela]

12. Show me where Bush has said...

"that it is vital for the United States to make it clear that we are not there with long-term goals and intentions of our presence in the region" or "that we have become the target and part of the problem today, if not the problem" or "that the goal must be to withdraw American troops." Doesn't sound like Bush to me at all.

[oblivious]

18. Quotation in the movie Odyssey last night: "Any fool can see he's lying."

That was the fool warning the Trojans to beware of Greeks bearing gifts. Bush said all the same shit Kerry said. Yet neither he nor Kerry ever mention the 14 or so permanent US bases now in Iraq. Both of them had every intention of staying in Iraq and every other country in the region that would let them in.


President Bush's 2004 Republican National Convention Speech Thursday, Sept. 2, 2004

So our mission in Afghanistan and Iraq is clear: We will help new leaders to train their armies, and move toward elections, and get on the path of stability and democracy as quickly as possible. And then our troops will return home


President Bush Speech On Iraq, May 24, 2004
1. ...transfer full sovereignty to a government of Iraqi citizens who will prepare the way for national elections... Our embassy in Baghdad will have the same purpose as any other American embassy, to assure good relations with a sovereign nation. ... Iraqis are proud people who resent foreign control of their affairs, just as we would. After decades under the tyrant, they are also reluctant to trust authority. By keeping our promise on June 30th, the coalition will demonstrate that we have no interest in occupation.

2. ...help establish the stability and security that democracy requires... America will provide forces and support necessary for achieving these goals.

3. ...continue rebuilding that nation's infrastructure

4. ...enlist additional international support for Iraq's transition.

5. ...national elections

I sent American troops to Iraq to defend our security, not to stay as an occupying power.


Presidential debate:

LEHRER: What criteria would you use to determine when to start bringing U.S. troops home from Iraq?

BUSH: ...And so the best indication about when we can bring our troops home -- which I really want to do, but I don't want to do so for the sake of bringing them home; I want to do so because we've achieved an objective -- is to see the Iraqis perform and to see the Iraqis step up and take responsibility.

And so, the answer to your question is: When our general is on the ground and Ambassador Negroponte tells me that Iraq is ready to defend herself from these terrorists, that elections will have been held by then, that their stability and that they're on their way to, you know, a nation that's free; that's when. And I hope it's as soon as possible.

President Bush Iraq Speech, April 13, 2004
America's objective in Iraq is limited, and it is firm. We seek an independent, free and secure Iraq.

We will not step back from our pledge. On June 30th, Iraqi sovereignty will be placed in Iraqi hands. Sovereignty involves more than a date and a ceremony. It requires Iraqis to assume responsibility for their own future.

http://www.bushcountry.org/bush_speeches/president_bush_speeches_index.htm

[IndianaGreen]

14. Kerry failed to mention the war in Iraq is immoral and criminal

The US joined other aggressor nations in history when it invaded Iraq in violation of the UN Charter and international law. Bush put America in the same league as Imperial Japan, Nazi Germany, and Saddam's Iraq, to name just a few.

The solution to this war is to get out immediately and unconditionally. We are the reason for the violence and for the deaths. We are the evil occupier, no different from the German troops that occupied Europe during World War II.

No one trusts America anymore, including many of us on the American Left. We see our country sinking into the Dark Ages, becoming a modern version of the Holy Roman Empire taking land that doesn't belong to us and imposing the imperial religion at the point of the sword.

Kerry is not the only politician that has failed to address the morality and legality of the Iraq War, preferring instead to embrace the PNAC agenda and Bush's pretext for the war.

[Oversea Visitor]

13. Stay and be damned,

Leave and be damned,

WHAT A FRIGGIN MESS!!

Ok, who let the CHIMP out of the cage?

What a big mess, GULP, 4 more years to monkey around, wonder what will be left.

[ladjf]

15. If this report is true,

then that's all we need to know about Kerry and the election of 2004.
Please fellow Dems, let's quit discussing Kerry, and try to move on the the solution of how are we going to successfully stage a counter-coup?

[htuttle]

19. Damn

I voted for the wrong candidate again.

[ApgarScrs]

21. He's certainly not the only one!!!

Reid, Jackson Lee, Bayh and Dayton ALL disagree with Kennedy. Is there any Democrat that does agree with Kennedy?? Haven't heard any.

[dbeach]

28. Cash and Kerry..very scary!

what good are Dems for bush gonna do the USA or Iraq or anyone in long run IF all the emperors very scary policies are followed..

[Demeter]

32. Kerry Can Kiss My Ashcroft

This man has no crediblity left to lose.

[truebrit71]

34. Well put....

I cannot believe that I supported this man.....:grr:

[KissMeKate]

33. this war is corporate welfare for defense contractors.

eom.

[aneerkoinos]

35. This war is

people against corporations, period. Glad to have you with us. :)