Kerry's gang trying to grasp defeat from Reid's victory

[Robbien]

Now that Bush has been defeated by the nationwide netroots/grassroots uprising against his efforts to privatize Social Security, in steps in the trio, James Carville, Stanley Greenberg, and Marshall Wittmann, with a "memo" of what the Democrats are doing wrong, with their pointman John Kerry trying to set Harry Reid straight.

A few days ago, Balz wrote about Reid and Kerry clashing over tactics. Yep, Kerry is said to have told Reid he was missing the boat, "and needed a plan to prevent Bush from seizing the middle ground in the Social Security fight." A plan-- the party needs a plan.... for what, why and when? Democrats are in the minority, and still, we have this trio with John Kerry's ear telling him he needs a lead with a plan. Nonsense, this does nothing but cover George Bush's failure.

The Note was right, Republicans, as the governing party that cooked up this great "crisis", will succeed in not even releasing a plan by Bush, as they need only let the likes of Carville, Greenberg, and Wittman to smoke out the Democrats to release a plan for the "problem" before Bush, and without a doubt, it will suggest raising taxes on the wealthy. Then Democrats will go on the defensive as the Republicans attack the tax-party, then Carville, Greenberg, and Wittman will blame the liberals...

This plan is re-run of past defeats, and the one listening to Carville, Greenberg, and Wittman is John Kerry. "We're off in a ditch" says Republican Graham, and Kerry's got a plan to pull the Republicans out!

http://www.mydd.com/story/2005/3/8/22442/39881

[David Dunham]

1. We don't need a plan, but Jerome looks foolish in attacking Kerry.

Jerome needs the equivalent of what on Saturday night live used to be called a "Doggie Downer."

[Dhalgren]

2. Gods! Can't these bozos just shut the fuck up for a little while?

He is right. The Democrats do not need a plan for a "problem" that doesn't exist! No one in the country is especially worried about SS - just the Republicans and their "Democrat" fellow travellers... Shit!

[SharonAnn]

21. The Democrats plan IS Social Security.

[Dhalgren]

25. Great point! Thanks...

[blm]

3. The story is BULL based on 3wk old GOSSIP. Balz is a GOP tool and has been

for years.

Kerry and Reid are just fine and are campaigning against Social Security together, including just last weekend.

[Robbien]

5. Not three week old gossip. RNC paid for a press release Monday

entitled Pelosi Proves Democrats Have No Plan for Social Security, Says DeLay; Fox News Sunday Appearance Just More of the Same
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=43952

The RNC push to get Democrats to put forth a plan is ongoing.

[blm]

7. The story about Reid and Kerry is 3 wk old gossip that both camps dismiss.

.

[dbeach]

4. Reid seems to be holdin his own..

and don't need info from the carville : "we will force shillery
in 08 " crowd.
I think the SS anxiety will be used by evil genius rover as a distraction so as to push through some stealth and more sinister plans...





Ignorance and Freedom cannot mutually co-exist for too long.

[Dr Ron]

6. Kerry is right--we need a plan

The problem many are missing is that while most oppose Bush's plan, the young are interested in private accounts. We don't want to lose the demographic which supported Kerry.

There is a high liklihood that Bush will salvage a political victory by changing what he goes after, such as when he gave in one seniors joining Medicare HMO's to get the prescription drug benefit, or when he gave in on the Department of Homeland Security. Bush is a flip flopper. We don't want to see Bush get credit for an add on plan (such as Clinton's). Democrats need to take the lead in proposing a plan which the young will support, rather than just look like the party which is saying no.

I discussed this previously on Light Up the Darkness:
http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/?view=plink&id=406

[Memekiller]

8. We don't need a plan...

...we just need to stay on the offensive and prevent Bush from taking the middle. Offering a plan won't necessarily accomplish that. By NOT offering a plan, we can point out Bush's vacilations, flip-flops and re-tooling of the same old goals: dismantling Social Security benefits. And when BUSH is finally forced to offer a plan, we start lobbing the hand grenades.

[Dr Ron]

9. That allows the Republicans to come back and win

They'll ultimately propose and pass something (probably without private accounts) and declare victory. They can keep saying the Democrats are just opposing their policies without having any of their own ideas.

[saracat]

10. I agree. And Kery is way more out front than Reid.

But I believe they are working together. I think this feud stuff is Repuke BS!

[kerrygoddess]

23. Exactly! N/T

[Memekiller]

11. Only if we let them...

They aren't offering any plans either! They won't because they know we could do to them exactly what they'll do to us if we put forward a plan. It would be suicide for them to put out a plan, just as it would be suicide for us.

It's up to us to put the heat on them to release a plan, just as they are trying to put the heat on us. Don't let them get away with the double standard. Say, "We're in the minority and have been shut out of the process. They control the White House and both chambers of Congress. Where's THEIR plan?"

[Dr Ron]

15. Be equallly vague

Good point. Whoever puts out a real plan is in danger of being more vulnerable to being attacked on the details. The Democrats have to do more than appear to just be saying no to the Republicans, but it might make sense for them to be as vague as the Republicans. BUsh is pushing something, even though he has offered no specifics. The Democrats need to respond, but no more specifically than the Republicans. They should stay in front of the idea of voluntary add on plans for the young, while sticking to opposing any reduction in funds for the current system.

[Memekiller]

20. Yes, good point...

They should say that their plan would "save" social security rather than dismantle it. Vague, but lays out the battleground.

[saracat]

12. We shouldn't be attacking our own but uniting. I am tired of the Kerry

bashing. He is voting better than most Senators and trying to lead us to the left where we belong. And a good idea is a good idea no matter where it comes from. I despise the DLC, but we DO need a plan! Otherwise they will say and rightly so, we complain without a solution. And we did admit their will be future problems with SS ourselves. So there is NO reason we can't have a plan for the future if not for now.Sheesh.

[applegrove]

13. Do Democrats want to be the guy on the air-miles commercial?

David Spade's answer is no no no no no

This is serious. If growth is as low as predicted (ie. deflation up to -2% at times and never growth of 5%) in the USA... who wants to be in government bonds when there is huge growth in the newly emerging economies? That being said you do not want SS dismantled as an great shared risk program for Americans. So do not give up on the private investment part. Private investment is likely the only sane thing about Bush plan. Put private investment as an adjunct SS with income tax incentives to save every year. Then you add a VAT tax on top of some consumer good, but the VAT sits on top of income and does not replace income tax as the elites would have it.

Then you do get taxes from some illegal immigrants which is a good thing. But you keep your progressive tax system and you have fixed the SS problem.

I tell you that the WH has a whole system worked out that will benefit the elites greatly and end forever the dream of universal health care. And because they have a plan, not because it is a good or a fair one but because they have a full plan then people will go for that.

DEMOCRATS NEED ONE OF THEIR OWN.

If you keep just saying no the WH then they can 'dance' you anywhere because it is predictable that you will say no (if you do not trust them) and they then will still the middle ground. The markets are there to make middle class exist just as much as they help the elites. If you don't come up with a plan and a respect for markets (knowing they are not perfect and at times require more regulation)then the GOP and Karl Rove have stolen 'markets' from you.

That is what they really want. To separate you from yourself. No SS is not in crisis these years. So you can let it be for a while. But yes you do need to solve the slow growth problem that USA will face in the next century by going into international markets to grow your retirement savings (you could for instance allow the federal government to invest in World Markets instead of bonds or you could have an adjunct plan on top of the same SS, or whatever).

Most importantly - Democrats need to make it clear that Markets will be part of the solution and that democrats love them. Otherwise Democrats will never get into power again - for 20 years.

[Cocoa]

14. the link to Kerry is never made

the WP article referred to doesn't make the link, in fact it suggests exactly the opposite.

Kerry was unhappy with the posture of the Democrats and told Reid that they needed to be far more aggressive in fighting President Bush, needed to set up what amounted to a perpetual campaign and needed a plan to prevent Bush from seizing the middle ground in the Social Security fight.

Carville said the dems were being too aggressive.

Anyway, didn't Kerry sign Reid's letter to Bush?

Let's not help the whores turn Reid's, and Kerry's, and our, victory (so far) into defeat.

[LittleClarkie]

16. And let me remind everyone the fight is not over.

Bush has not been defeated yet. If Social Security ends up being overhauled because we stopped fighting too early, and not aggressively enough, we will not be crowing about Reid for long. Kerry BETTER not be right about this. I will be mighty pissed if Bush does indeed manage to snatch victory out of what looked like a defeat.

That said, I consider the dispute between Kerry and Reid to be healthy. I'm glad they're sparring over how hard to his Bush. This is a good discussion.

The dispute between the two is completely and utterly separate from Carville, Greenberg, and Wittmann. And I'm sorry, I don't trust them. And I don't trust Balz.

But again, the fight is not won yet. And Kerry and Reid better learn to work together. I agree with Dr. Ron. First Kerry's not fighting hard enough. Now he wants to fight harder, and he's still in trouble. He could save the lives of everyone on this board, and some would still say he did it for political gain.

[bemildred]

17. It ain't over, and it ain't because of Reid.

Although one must give him credit for speaking up.
They are searching as we speak for some new variety of bullshit
to sell it with.

[Lexingtonian]

18. Jerome Armstrong is an idiot

And I say that in the nicest way, having kept an eye on mydd.com for three plus years. He simply hates Kerry for ignoring the likes of himself, and Kerry's perspective from 'above' always agitates his egotistical righteousness about the view from 'below'. The idea that these might be complementary never really strikes him.

Kerry wants to run a 'permanent campaign' against Republicans. Reid wants to ensure that the Social Security filibuster holds. These are not mutually exclusive efforts. Personally, I think Kerry should focus his campaign on depriving Republicans of swing voters on foreign policy/Iraq/terrorism stuff.

But it's painful to watch mydd.com's wrongheaded analysis. The sad part is that Markos Zuniga ('Daily Kos') is of the same vein, which goes back to the Dean campaign and the fundamental strengths and fundamental errors of that approach.

[cestpaspossible]

19. Dan Balz is a GOP hack

doesn't anyone know how to read a byline?

[GetTheRightVote]

22. The Democrats are holding together when it comes to SS

I hope they continue to so in the future, we must hold together as well behind them and Chairman Dean if we are to defeat * and his posses. It is like a marriage, you may argue between yourselves but no other person better say a word to either one of you in the mean while.

The Dems should not act on SS as if there was a crisis when of course we know there is not one. They must stand firm in protecting it and us from the repukes destoring it. When the Dems win this fight then they as well as us will learn a very valuable lesson, how to win together, joined by the hip.

:kick:

[depakid]

24. Now that Bush has been defeated?

What planet is Jerome Armstrong from?

Yet another name to add to my "do not bother reading" list....