Don't bankrupt Amtrak

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

It's hard to overstate the irresponsibility of the Bush administration's effort to "zero fund" Amtrak.

We're being told that the 34-year-old national railroad corporation is so bureaucratic and wedded to long-distance routes that perpetually lose money — "running trains that nobody rides between cities nobody wants to travel between," says Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta — that it should be thrown into bankruptcy.

But an abrupt cutoff of federal support, currently $1.2 billion a year?

It's worth remembering that Amtrak, which last year increased its ridership 4.3 percent, to 25 million passengers, plays a critical role in U.S. transportation. Regional and local commuter rail systems are tied closely to it. It's a lifeline for hundreds of cities and smaller towns across 46 states (including many "red" Bush states). Plus, an Amtrak shutdown would be a body blow to the crowded Northeast Corridor (Boston-Washington) — a critical part of the U.S. economy.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/opinion/2002221733_peirce28.html

[HuskiesHowls]

1. Just reduce funding for other modes of transportation

The federal government supports all other modes of transportation, but not the railroads.

Where would trucking be without the government building the highways that they use? The fuel and gas taxes for highways sure don't pay for the whole thing.

Where would the airlines be without the government building airports? Probably not off the ground yet.

Where would river traffic be without the Army Corps of Engineers? We'd still be using riverboats.

Where would this country be without railroads, which moved so many troops and so much equipment during (at least) WWII?

[politicat]

2. A a frequent Amtrak, long-distance rider, they're full of shit.

The train between Chicago and Denver (my normal route) runs at 100% capacity in sleeping car tickets 5 days out of 7, and rarely drops below 60%. In coach seating, the cars run at a minimum of 70% capacity.

From Denver to LA, on the Indian Chief, I've never seen passenger load at less than 70%. I know the airlines have a tendency to run flights at this level; I seem to recall that United's target was always 70%.

I don't know about other trips, but out here, Amtrak is the most efficient, cost-effective way to get between major cities. From Denver, I can get to all of the major cities in the west easily. These trains are lifeblood.

And we won't even go into freight rail here.

[Fovea]

3. The perfect shit storm.

In light of the following:

1. Gasoline will crest $3/gal this summer. It will never be less than that again. Rail is extremely efficient. Highway transport is not.

2. The population is aging, and more former drivers enter the public transit environment out of inability to drive every day. Further, unlike airliners or busses, you can get up and stretch your legs, which may literally be a life or death thing to the elderly, diabetics, etc.
Time to kill Amtrak, the best way to travel for retirees.

3. Busses and Cars for the most part run on Diesel, Gasoline, a rare electric and a smattering of Propane. Trains can be run right off the grid, or by burning trash to make steam.

4. My most important... Trains can carry bicycles. You can ride to another city and ride your bike to your destination. No wait...ing for cabs. No being stranded by busses. Train stations are downtown, airports are in outer NIMBYland.

To say killing Amtrak is stupid, is like saying Lance Armstrong sometimes rides a bike, and a grievous insult to the dim-witted.

Really, of all the damage Pretzedent Dimson is doing to the country, this is way up there on the deluxe, solid gold dancing, !!OMG racecar bling-bling!! list of self-exploding meltdown fuckups, sans doubt.

[iconoclastNYC]

9. Most freight trains run on Diesel

Not sure about Amtrack. And burning trash creates nasty toxins.

[Fovea]

11. Freight runs on Kerosene here

but not everywhere. EU has a fair amount of electric traction, I believe Japan as well.

And my point about trash was somewhat facetious. The larger point being that rail traction is open to more traction options because the engine requires no steering and little suspension, hence handling is not an issue. Nor is gross weight, really.

[Fovea]

4. kick

n/t

[fortyfeetunder]

5. A blue vs red thang?

Amtrak is perceived by some to be a blue-state folly, that is the Boston-NYC-Washington run, and the runs from Chi-town to the Blue Coast (WA, OR, CA). That is why the administration is so intent on squashing it.

[Fovea]

8. I've heard that

But most of its milage is probably passing through red states.

I think it is 'private' vs 'public' thing. The Cons, both paleo and neo, share a common delusion that airtravel is private enterprise driven. Nothing could be further from the truth.

No form of long haul transportation is profitable. They, like lighthouses and bridges are part of what Adam Smith calls public goods, and even Smith says they are required for the faciltation of commerce.

So what ever kind of Con is telling you that rail must die, you can be sure that it isn't a capitalist talking.

[iconoclastNYC]

10. BINGO...it's ideology and cronyism

You can bet that well connected Bush buddies would get the first chance to bid at those profitable Northeast routes. It's just like what happened in Mexico and all the other places the IMF demanded state sell of of public assets.

Connected cronies bought the assets at fire-sale priced, did cheap-o modernizations and sold them off at a obscene profit.

And Amtrak would be no different.

[Maraya1969]

6. I have ridden from Tampa FL to New Jersey a few times

And for the most part it was a BLAST! Of course back in the smoking section days it was the best because everyone hung out and played cards and were fast friends. I met so many interesting people.

Being on a train can be a lot of fun. It is good to think of it as an adventure if you are going a long way. Go with a great attitude and you'll have a great time.

[Pooka Fey]

7. I'll go ahead and be the one to say "Peak Oil" .

Peak Oil has been entered into the congressional record and there's Kunstler's article in the Rolling Stone - it's hit M$M.

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/_/id/7203633?pageid=rs.NewsArchive&pageregion=mainRegion&rnd=1111686680548&has-player=true

The RR system is this country, compared to Europe, --- let's just say that they have a really modern and nice system, and we don't. Kunstler says that our system would make Bulgarians ashamed, if it were theirs.

I love trains. I just wrote my senator last week to encourage investment in our RR system because of "high gas prices". I would really encourage everybody to do the same, if they want to visit out-of-state family and friends when gas is over $5.00 per gallon. We need to hang on and rebuild our RR system, or we won't be getting around much anymore - once the cheap oil is a memory.

[dcfirefighter]

12. I love trains

I have to admit, free enterprise whips ass on controlled economy any and every day of the week.

BUT..... Road Freight is massively subsidized, certainly air travel, PLUS they get to saddle the rest of the world with the external costs of burning oil, or jet fuel at high altitudes.

BUT AGAIN.....Road Freight, being competitive, has increased the fuel efficiency to about double what it was 50 years ago, plus, can generally guaranteed delivery of sub-60,000lb, sub-8' wide, sub 54' long goods anywhere in the US in a day or two. By rail, you are lucky if you can get it within 2 weeks.

MY THREE PART SOLUTION? ....
1) Quit subsidizing the airlines, start charging mile x weight tolls on highways, esp for truck. Use EZ pass & the like.
2) Quit letting the externalities fly: Carbon Tax
3) Nationalize the Tracks, not the Trains. Rent time slots on the tracks out to the highest bidder. They'll only bid what it's worth, and make it pay, i.e. keep them busy. Use that money to maintain the rails, and give the rest back to us. We'll use the money where we see, maybe even on rail trips (or goods shipped by rail).

To a previous poster, you may thank us for paying for part of your western rail trips. The solution isn't to give away more trips elsewhere, but rather close the 'loopholes' that make less efficient transportation appear more efficient.