Shrinking Detroit has 12,000 abandoned homes

[Mizmoon]

DETROIT, United States (AFP) - Rats or lead poisoning. When it comes to the threats from the broken down house next door, Dorothy Bates isn't sure which is worse.

...

"When it's lightening and thundering you can hear the bricks just falling," the 40-year-old nurse said as she looked at the smashed windows and garbage-strewn porch. "If you call and ask (the city) about it they say they don't have the funds to tear it down."

There are more than 12,000 abandoned homes in the Detroit area, a byproduct of decades of layoffs at the city's auto plants and white flight to the suburbs. And despite scores of attempts by government and civic leaders to set the city straight, the automobile capitol of the world seems trapped in a vicious cycle of urban decay.

Detroit has lost more than half its population since its heyday in the 1950's. The people who remain are mostly black -- 83 percent -- and mostly working class, with 30 percent of the population living below the poverty line according to the US
Census Bureau.

The schools are bad. The roads are full of potholes. Crime is high and so are taxes. The city is in a budget crisis so deep it could end up being run by the state.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050814/ts_alt_afp/uspopulationdetroit_050814165530

[getmeouttahere]

1. Sad, sad story....

Reaganomics and BushCo at work!

[etherealtruth]

3. There is truth in what you say, but ...

... there is also a lot of local and regional responsibility for half a century of decline.

[William769]

4. Very sad story

I remember Detroit when it was a nice place to live.

[Demeter]

38. The GOP in Lansing and western Michigan Contributed

they hate Detroit in all its manifestations past and present, and did everything they could to keep it under their heel.

[etherealtruth]

2. It's very sad

Detroit really needs dynamic new leadership.

IMO, suburban metro Detroit turned it's back on the city years ago; the only hope the city has is for the REGION to become invested in the well being of the city.

[Mairead]

5. Here's the key, in 1 sentence:

"The most frustrating part of it," says her neighbor Larry, "is that so many of the abandoned houses could be repaired. The foundations are solid. The buildings are beautiful. Or at least, they were once".

They could be repaired. The photo the show with the article is a small vernacular Victorian, about 1880-1910. It's open to the weather now, but those houses were built very solidly. It could indeed be repaired. The same technology that went into building that SF microhouse could rehab the Detroit houses.

We NEED socialism!! We *N*E*E*D* it!

[Mizmoon]

6. Not so fast

check out the "beauties" that are available ...

http://www.waynecounty.com/WCAuctions/Auction/

[Mairead]

10. I don't think I understand. Could you clarify? (nt)

[Mizmoon]

11. When I saw this article I started to do searches

to see what these sorts of properties look like. I've got some home equity. I could go to detroit and buy 100 of these houses - oh but what "shit boxes" they are. No one in their right mind would try to fix them up despite what the folks in the article say.

What I was getting at (and you know you're in trouble when you're explaining your own semi-joke) is you'd have to be damn brave to fix one of those up and live in a place with outrageous crime and awful schools. The link had some of the worst of the worst houses too. A good liberal wouldn't send a dog to live in them. From what I understand there's also a big asbestos and lead problem too. Oy vey.

This is what Buffalo, NY will look like in the future if they don't do something soon. That's probably the best bet - save the cities that are still habitable.

[Mairead]

26. Agreed that the lead and asbestos aren't fun and would take work

But as Flaxbee points out (below) houses of that age (1880-1930) were made of real, over-dimension, fine-grain wood. One can't get that kind of construction today for love nor money. I'm minded of the wood frame houses in Britain, for example, that have stood since before Shakespeare's time and are still inhabited today. We have houses here in Mass that were built before the Revolution and are still inhabited today. We don't have many because too many people cared more about putting money in their own pockets than about preserving history, but we have some, and if we survive as a species they'll still be sheltering families 200 years from now.

In my neighborhood here in western Mass we have houses ranging from superb Victorians & Edwardians to Sears Craftsman bungalows from the '30s. I.e., just like the ones falling to bits in Detroit. They're great! They look wonderful, fixed up. Very liveable.

[Mizmoon]

34. I love ya Mairead

You're an incurable optimist :)

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

7. Then you would have a very nicely restored...

...abandoned house.

[Mairead]

13. I think the point I was trying to make is that right now the city

has nothing, and arguably even less than nothing.

Yet there are plenty people who, despite being stable and hardworking, cannot afford the usual path to housing: find the down payment, find the monthly payment, pay taxes, pay for upkeep. But if they owned the house, they could manage taxes and upkeep.

So why not socialise the process? Collect up a pool of broadly similar houses. Collect up a pool of people who need that kind of housing such that the number of participant units (couples etc) equals the number of houses in the pool. Do a 'Habitat' sort of thing: everyone in the pool pitches in every weekend to rehab the pool of houses to a basic standard of goodness, using materials that are sourced publicly (i.e. via donation or grant).

Once every house has been made good, every address goes into a hat and every participant unit draws a house. Once the horse-trading dust settles, each participant unit gets title to their house free and clear (or perhaps with a restriction to suppress speculation/profit-taking).

Suddenly the city has many fewer abandoned houses and many more people have a Jacobsian investment in the continued health of the city.

hmmmm?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

23. Interesting ideas.

>But if they owned the house, they could manage taxes and upkeep.

I'm not entirely sure that would be the case, and that was my question about the whole idea, really. I'm assuming that upkeep on these houses would be substantial, given that even with some remodeling they're still old houses, many not so nice as this one.

>using materials that are sourced publicly (i.e. via donation or grant).

I agree that this is probably the only way it could be done.

>each participant unit gets title to their house free and clear

If Detroit weren't already so despearately poor, I'd suggest something like a property tax exclusion for these houses.


Anyway, your heart and mind are definitely in the right place, but none of this does much to solve the main problem of Detroit, which is unemployment. Unless the city can develop a stable economic base, these will only be the first of many more houses to be abandoned.

[Mairead]

29. Employment is definitely a key issue.

I suppose I'm anticipating a future in which the suburbs become ghettos (not unlike the dystopia in Back To The Future II) because it's no longer financially possible to commute 40-100 miles a day, or drive 30 miles to a shopping center.

Have you read Jane Jacobs on cities and how they work? She makes the case that cities are, as it were, economic pumps/levers. If they are diverse (and most natural cities are) they concentrate creative power in broadly the same way universities do. Suburbs, on the other hand, mostly merit the name 'bedroom communities'--they're parasitic with a 'center of gravity' outside their borders. They exist only because of cheap transportation and can't survive if transporation becomes expensive.

So my perception is that soon companies will have to move back into cities to find a workforce, because workers will be looking to move into town to escape the $20/day or $100/day commute.

[etherealtruth]

31. The 'problem' with this is ...

... in the Detroit metro area the people ARE in the 'burbs, not the city ---- and that's where the jobs moved ---- Exactly as you stated, to where the people are.

[Mairead]

36. Do you think that will remain so once gasolene goes to $5 or $10/gal?

In the metro Boston/eastern Mass area, people and many businesses are both located in the suburbs -- but the commute is horrific because it seems that there's about an 80% likelihood that the person doesn't live anywhere near where s/he works. When I first moved here, my job was within walking distance--but the company popped its clogs after a year, and from that point on my commute was in the 75-100 mile/day range.

Is it different in the Detroit area? Do people live where they work? If they don't, how do you see the situation playing out once gasolene becomes too expensive to use for commuting?

[etherealtruth]

37. Many, many of the jobs ARE in the suburbs

The jobs went to where the people were in metro Detroit --- the suburbs.

Certainly in the most distant suburbs people do not live anywhere near where they work (they may likely be commuting in to an other suburb).

There has been a significant revitalization in the closest in (to the city) suburbs ... as the actual city declined.

Your point about gas prices is a good one. It may cause people to look toward the city limits of Detroit because it is a central land mass.

I am NOT trying to bash Detroit ----- My main hope and desire is that we stop waiting for the city to revitalize before insuring that residents get a GOOD public education and some freedom from crime.
They have been suffering through horrendous schools and rampant crime while people like us discuss how the inner city will become revitalized ---- they've waited too long!
(I know that you in NO way were implying that they should endure substandard services)

[Flaxbee]

16. not to be totally frivolous, and miss the point of the article,

but re the houses, how difficult is it to actually move a house from its foundation? I've seen many homes for sale on the back page of "This Old House" and you can usually get the house for about $100 and then it's yours, provided you MOVE the thing to your own land/lot.

If I were any closer to Michigan, I'd consider it... older homes were actually made of wood, not cheapo glued-together sawdust like today's homes.

[Mairead]

18. Depending on the house, quite difficult

Balloon frame houses are miles easier than masonry, of course, but they still have to be braced up and slooooooowly jacked up to the point where a flatbed can be pushed under. Then they have to be guyed and moving them can be a genuine pain in the rear given streets with crossing wires, older trees, or inclines.

[SouthernDem2004]

8. Negative on the socialism. :)

[Mairead]

17. Perhaps at my age I shouldn't be, but I'm still amazed by how many

people start holding up crosses and shielding their eyes when anyone says 'socialism'. I've never known them to know what socialism is really about---they always for some reason believe that Capitalism's interpretation of Lenin's interpretation of Marx is not merely trustworthy but definitive.

It's quite sad, really.

[SouthernDem2004]

19. I am not exactly young myself and I am aware of what socialism is..

People that disagree with Socialism are not automaticly ignorant.

It's quite sad when people form opinions based on such sweeping generalizations.

[Mairead]

21. I bet you aren't aware :-) (nt)

[SouthernDem2004]

22. Rather self righteous of you. Since you know eveything guess there is no

need to continue.


Peace

[Mairead]

27. I didn't claim to know everything...I merely suggested that you don't

know anywhere near as much about socialism as you think you do. Because, if you did, then you wouldn't be opposed.

And the reason I say you wouldn't be opposed is that only people with an exploitative attitude of mind are opposed to actual socialism--and you don't strike me as someone with an exploitative cast of mind. Am I wrong about you?

[etherealtruth]

9. Crime needs to be reduced ...

... schools improved dramatically. I need to find the link, but Detroit schools have been compared (unfavorably) to schools in the, traditionally poor performing, rural deep south. Roads and city services need to be improved. Without these fixes, it is not "worth" renovating these houses.

[Mairead]

20. Yep. But as SoCalDem says (below) getting people in comes first

Once people have a reason to stay, and the ability to do so, improvement follows. It's when folk are clinging by their fingernails and feeling abandoned socially that they stop caring. At that point everything they've got is going into survival, so they've no room to take on the criminals or improve the schools.

Remove the sense of living in a jungle, and things improve automagically.

[etherealtruth]

28. I still insist , in the case of Detroit ...

Improvements need to BEGIN first ... Unlike other cities there has been (essentially) NO influx into Detroit at all. Making it even worse the jobs have flowed out of the city , into the suburbs ----"Automation Alley" is ~20 miles north of the city ...

Gentrification of run down neighborhoods has occurred in other cities so that people could be closer to work and benefit from big city amenities ---- there have been very FEW such movements in Detroit because the benefits aren't there (the jobs aren't there either).

I am not trying to slam the city I find it heart breaking to see ...

As I've stated in earlier posts this is a huge problem that requires a regional solution ... The suburbs here have not appeared to be all that interested in being a part of the solution.

[SoCalDem]

32. Businesses are first to flee...last to return

Think of concentric circles.. The ones closest to the epicenter work their way outwards, until the outer circle finally gets too expensive for "Flee-ers"..and commuters.. If they have been "there" for a while, cheaper housing no longer exists as they move closer...UNTIL they get to the epicenter..

This is what has happened in LA...

Lots of places that used to be slums, are now selling for $400K..

[etherealtruth]

33. It happened in L.A. ...

... in Cleveland, Baltimore, Chicago, Philadelphia ... and while it was happening there, Detroit steadily declined.

In a later post I point out (using your concentric ring analogy), that the revitalization did not occur in the center ring but in the ring immediately surrounding it ... which is where both the people and the jobs are.

I am NOT saying that I want Detroit to die, I am not saying that it's death is inevitable ... What I am saying is that Detroit will need to find a different solution, but ...

MEAN WHILE ...

We need to find immediate solutions for the people living there ... they deserve far more than the substandard public education they now receive AND they deserve to be safe from the rampant crime plaguing the city.
Regardless of whether the city is "renewed" or not.

[SoCalDem]

35. Yes.. and instead of living out and commuting IN,

people can move IN, fix up and commute OUT..

There's always an ebb and flow in property..and the fixing up of blighted areas, can revitalize the people who live there too.. Once people feel that their property (and lives are worth something0 they often step up to the plate and drive the crime out of their neighborhoods.

[SoCalDem]

12. Yuppies who work from their homes will eventually "gentrify"

the place. There are neighborhoods all over the US that are totally rundown, and all it takes is for a few people who are priced out of ever owning a hoime, to arrive with hammers, a few bucks and high hopes.. They end up with a nice home, and more follow them.

South Beach florida was a D U M P with a capital D in the 60's. All the glorious retro hotels were boarded up and crumbling away.. businesses had fled, and the only reason we even went to South Beach was for the cool BEACHes and the jai alai arena...

Once prices ran wild, younf entrepreneurs flooded into South beach to renovate, and the rest is history:)

There are nice people everywhere..even in crappy neighborhoods:)

[Mairead]

14. Exactly. And wouldn't it be nice if instead of benefitting White yupps

via the same old same-old, it benefitted Black folk instead?

Are you old enough to remember the '60s saying that 'urban renewal means n*gg*r removal'? I can't recall who coined the phrase (Stokely Carmichael?) but I can recall watching people, too poor to keep up, being forced out of their homes...and then the city virtually paying speculators to fix them up, sell them, and pocket the profit!!

[SoCalDem]

15. Yep. I remember.. This is why "urban renewal"never worked

the people in charge (both parties) felt in their bones that "those people" would never appreciate or take care of anything "nice"...and then stuck them into vertical prisons (projects).:(

THIS is what Habitat for Humanity SHOULD be doing...instead of building a brand new house via lottery for a few people..

Fix up the inner cities and make them liveable again. Mom & Pop stores, and small businesses will follow..but housing comes first

[Old Vet]

24. I know these areas of detroit, Where alot of these Auctions.........

are, You haven't seen crime till you been to detroit. Theres one night a year called hell night where people burn houses down for the fun of it, Usually abandoned but still.

[SoCalDem]

25. Lots of places in the US have been Hell-Holes...and "recovered"

Once JOBS come back to these places, the nasty behaviors often dissipate.. there IS a cause & effect in action in the inner cities.

[etherealtruth]

30. Unfortunately the revitalization you speak of ...

... has occurred in the older suburbs surrounding Detroit. There are a number of metro areas that were in decline during the 70's and 80's that have had major revitalization ... where once was drab and decaying is now quite chic.

Sadly, while this was occurring, Detroit continued to steadily lose residents, jobs ...

I am not slamming Detroit ... Detroit is not dead (yet) ... it is a call to action. There are a lot of Detroit "boosters," but the city needs MANY more.

[salin]

39. back in the early nineties - there were three abandoned houses per

block - on average - in Detroit. There was a program to start tearing down abandoned homes (to prevent them from becoming crack houses) back around 1993. I have no idea if this current number is higher or lower than it was at that time. Detroit has had deep problems for a long time. Very sad.