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Algorem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 05:07 PM
Original message
Too few of us care that Bush keeps on lying
http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/dick_feagler/index.ssf?/base/opinion/1134552607299310.xml&coll=2

Wednesday, December 14, 2005
Dick Feagler
Plain Dealer Columnist

One good reason to tell the truth is that it's hard to hang on to a lie.

Like George W. Bush is doing with Iraq.

Any cop will tell you they know about liars and how they lie. It's a basic course at the police academy.

The big tip-off is always when the story changes. The first time the perp tells you a story, he's gonna make it sound good for him. But then you try to break him down. And if he changes his story, you got something - a little crack - that maybe you can pry open to get to the truth...

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Broken_Hero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. I care that he lies...
but the people who have the "power" "influence" to call him out on it, fail to do so sometimes...and whenever someone does step up to Bush and his lies, the spin masters turn and turn it...but again, I care that he lies.....peace, brother...
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. Yeah, like the "18 democrats"
who are meeting with bush to discuss Iraq"!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1988501

Why aren't they meeting with Murtha?
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. Great analogy--this whole administration keeps
changing its story about just about everything!
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Because they lie just about everything
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-17-05 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
28. Amis eat P(r)ez

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savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. I think people are too busy to notice
that's the problem. People are too busy trying to make money they don't have any energy to protest. They would like to but are too busy.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. That lame excuse
is threadbare at this late date.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
4. His belligerent rewriting of the Iraq thing is truly bizarre.
It will be years before it's untangled. I have to believe that is the intent.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
22. He couldn't have done it without most media helping him to do it.
Especially the broadcast media.
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Wind Dancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #22
31. Exactly, they've promoted the lies.
If we had independent journalists and media, this could never have happened. They are as guilty as Shrub by enabling the spread of propaganda by this administration. The NYT held the latest story for over a year knowing Shrub gave permission for citizens to be spied on illegally. They should be charged along with the entire administration for criminal behavior.

The top propagandist in Germany was found guilty and sentenced to death during the Nuremberg Trials.

Julius Streicher (1885-1946)
Propagandist and editor of Der Stuermer, a virulently antisemitic newspaper. A leading organizer of Nazi Germany's first official Reich-wide boycott of Jewish businesses in April 1933, Streicher had lost credibility in Party circles by 1940. Streicher was found guilty on count 4 of the indictment and sentenced to death. He was hanged on October 16, 1946.

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Inland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
5. But unlike arrestees, Bush isn't being questioned.
He just makes a statement and walks away. No follow up questions for HIM.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
6. GREAT COLUMN!!!!
Edited on Wed Dec-14-05 05:31 PM by blm
Please add it to GD, too, so more eyeballs see it. It should get an eye catching subject line, too.

All Dems should be making this same point whenever the opportunity arises.
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agincourt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
8. That's why he plays so dumb,`
So that his lies are not suspected, just like Reagen did.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-14-05 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
9. I'm Upset that He Breathes--Lying is Just Moreso
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 01:43 AM
Response to Original message
10. I think it is a feeling of helplessness even if you do care
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
11. Dick Feagler should be
on our Greatest Page..

"My feeling is that war often is a necessity. But this war isn't. To wage a war when you don't have to is a crime. To lie about why compounds the felony.

This administration lied about this war's necessity. That is the worst sin a commander in chief can make. Lying is despicable when lies cost deaths. Bush lied."


I've been down today cause of all the fake hoopla over the Iraqi "democratic elections" and this guy puts it all in perspective.

R & K!

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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. I think it should be on the HOMEPAGE with an alert siren.
heh. Feagler really does speak it like Joe Friday - just the facts, ma'am.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. That Too!! I'm estactic
to see it has "8" Recommedations now! :bounce: :toast: to Dick Feagler of the Cleveland Plain Dealer!
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. I really hate to see this excellent article sink.
.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Won't let it!
:kick: :web:
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
12. Carl Sagan's fool-proof BS detector is also relevant to this subject.
Edited on Thu Dec-15-05 12:35 PM by BrklynLiberal
http://www.carlsagan.com/revamp/carlsagan/baloney.html

It was first brought to my attention in this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5599484

Edit: so happy to be the fifth vote for the greatest page for this thread!!!
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Clara T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
16. From Article
Edited on Thu Dec-15-05 01:21 PM by Clara T
"We are at war. My take is that too few of us know it. The war - guys prowling around in war suits - is just a corner of the evening news. And when the stats come in - three Marines killed there, four soldiers here - it's like the ball scores. And that's obscene. But I think that's how the White House likes it."


My thoughts:
We live in an era of the endless representation, the mediated existence. Where nothing is real and we can be largely unaware of our own circumstances. Life as seen through the camera lens. We prefer it this way now- The sign is more important than the thing, the image more real and enduring than the fact. A cult-ure that exists with a manufactured and false consciousness. We are thoroughly corporatized and the first set of peoples living a branded (un)reality.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. He's right - the media's handling of Iraq BENEFITS the WH.
.
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Al-CIAda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
17. .
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
19. So true. nm
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
24. Please keep this article by Dick Feagler
Kicked and Recommended! :kick: :web:

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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
25. kicked....again.
:kick:
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
26. It's only press and congress giving him pass on lies
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
27. Mr. Feagler writes:
"George W. Bush changed his story. But there will be no arrests and no indictments. At his level, you get to just lie and lie"

But the reality is you can also be impeached at that level.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. And now bush is admitting
getting all Big Brother on our ass! Breaking the Law of our Constitution he swore to uphold!
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neoblues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
29. Pathologically...
Every sentence that comes out of George Bush, his Administration and most of the Republican Leadership are lies.

Therefore, why should we be surprised if it seems people have stopped reacting, besides what can the average person do about it besides cope with chronic nausea? Of course, there's also the question of why more people don't seem to realize they are such chronic liars...

Before we consider that, it's interesting to note just how pathological the current "leadership" is when it comes to spewing lies. The funny thing is that the Bush Administration lies every single time it opens it's mouth and even when the truth would be both easier and more strategically effective for their agenda (it's true, however, that the truth very rarely supports anything these people believe or do, much less say). There might be one exception to the lie everytime policy, and that would apply only to George, and at his discretion. That is, when George says he's receiving his instructions from G_d... That might not be a lie--at least in the sense that he believes it.

As for nobody caring, how many appear so for lack of awareness... a great many people simply trust their President as portrayed to them via the media (imagine indignation "Why...our President wouldn't LIE to US!"). So, the major media corporations are culpable not only for supporting, promoting, distributing and purveying the BA's lies, they are also responsible for the mis-information of a large segment of the public on the issues, including the fact that Bush lies. An unethical behavior covered by other unethical behaviors. Of course, it's sort of logical (and obvious) that if the media is complicit with the BA in spreading their lies, they would naturally not expose their own complicity by providing enough information on the issues to the people that they would realize the BA is lying and that the media haven't called them on it. This paragraph sure took alot of words to say very little, alas.

As for the less noticed effects of the "culture of lies" pervading our government... No doubt, one reason the BA has made every effort to put an end to the Freedom of Information Act by classifying everything and putting policies of secrecy in place throughout the government... is to hide the fact that they're lying about any and everything you can name (including redacting the results of government research beyond recognition).

What we must do about it. No matter what it takes... even it that means an investment of all the money each one of us (concerned citizens) can manage to spare... we have to create and build a major broadcasting network... "The Truth Broadcasting Company" or some such. Obviously, it will inevitably appear to be a partisan network--because, like it or not, the Democratic Party, Liberals and Progressives are, relatively speaking, nearly always on the side of the truth! Without a significant source of the Truth in the broadcast industry, altogether too many Americans will never be exposed to it. We must fix this. We must. Or the forces of human corruption and immorality will continue to win the day.

Obviously, "they" need not win "fairly" or "honestly"! Right now, they win by "default". There is no "effective" opposition, for the only weapon is information/communication, and that requires broadcast access! Even when they win by deceit, even if they use rigged electronic voting equipment--without the power to reach the people with the truth, there is no way to challenge things as they are. Yes, once upon a time, we could rely upon the news media to force (to some extent) the government and politicians to be, if not truthful, at least somewhat accurate in their statements. Given corporate corruption/corporatism and it's involvment in our political process and government (complicity with the Republican party)... That state of affairs is long past. Alas, in this case, fire can only be fought with fire--we must have our own network and an organizing corporation behind it (even if it's a not-for-profit corporation).

What are our Democratic Leaders doing to fight the lies (or to fight for the truth)? I've heard only spurious mention of modest attempts to obtain some kind of broadcast access and never any details (and least of all, any really ambitious strategic plans). It very much seems they can't cope with this and aren't even able to attempt to organize a nationwide grass-roots campaign to attempt a real fix (and create a network from scratch)(admittedly an incredible task, made even more potentially impossible by virtue of the Republican control over the FCC and related business regulatory agencies). Still, we/they shouldn't quit before we've really tried in earnest! Individually, we feel "What can we (little people) do?". As a member of 40 or 50 million other like-minded people, we would feel "What can't we do!".

"What can we do", however, is the refrain I would expect to hear from most concerned citizens if asked right now, "why they don't appear to care about the ubiquitous lying of the Bush and Company?". Furthermore, people really do become accustomed to repetitive stimulus--so much so I shouldn't have been surprised if the common refrain was "Oh, are they still lying? Well, I suppose that figures..." before they went back to sleep. When faced with a repetitive frustration beyond your control, to some degree, great or small, you learn to tune it out. To the extent you can't, you suffer from stress. I wonder what a medical study might find regarding the stress levels of Democrats these days; would it vary by political involvment? That could be confounding since active involvment by whatever means would create a small sense of control and reduce stress, while having great concern/involvment without active involvment would lead to more intense stress. This leads me to propose the half-baked theory that we Democrats must create an effective response and/or alternative broadcasting network, for reasons of protecting our own health! (not to mention to save our country/economy and Democracy, individual/civil rights, freedoms and privacy). We could use some good slogans too. "To be healthy(ee), support Democracy TV". Having fun yet?
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Wind Dancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. Welcome to DU, neoblues!
Edited on Sun Dec-18-05 04:32 PM by FrustratedDemInNC
The PR firms have mastered the "art of illusion" convincing the American people of threats, fear and the like. They have spent years researching our psyche and promoting "false truths" in the most creative ways. If we feel hopeless, they are achieving their goals - the thinking and determined public scares them more than anything.

George Lakoff has done extensive research on how they target certain groups - more info here:

http://www.rockridgeinstitute.org/projects/strategic/nationasfamily/sfworldview



:hi:
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neoblues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Thanks!
It's just too true! ;-)
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The Velveteen Ocelot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
34. Great editorial!
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