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Signs of Societal Decay - by Ralph Nader (a good read)

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The Sushi Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-31-03 07:54 PM
Original message
Signs of Societal Decay - by Ralph Nader (a good read)
http://www.ralphnader.com/interest/102403.html

Modern societies specialize in a dazzling number of indicators that mark the ups and downs of various activities, especially economic, health and audience ratings. But when it comes to signs of societal decay that cannot easily be reduced to numbers, there is a void. So let's look at four "decays" that are trending downward.

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The Zanti Regent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. My nephew is trending downwards thanks to Ralph
Thank You Ralph, for getting you pal Chimp elected.

Thank you for having my nephew sent off to Iraq and returning with a bullet cutting his spinal cord and leaving him a paraplegic!
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Ardee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Neither Ralph Nader nor Clintons penis
Edited on Sat Nov-01-03 07:50 PM by Ardee
are responsible for all the ills you or the freeper right heap upon them. A pity that the mere mention of the Nader name elicits such knee jerk and vituperative rejoinder, especially when i doubt that you even bothered to read the article in question.

I frequent that Nader page rather often and read things that used to be said and written by democrats.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Thanks for the article Ardee. I would have missed it. He makes excellent
points. It's a pity some can't see beyond Nader to look at his writings. They just are intent on starting flame wars.

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Resistance Is Futile Donating Member (693 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. "You're either with us or you're against us."
The Democratic party is not automatically entitled to Nader's votes. If the Democratic party wants Nader's votes, it will have to adopt at least some of Nader's policies rather than acting as Rethug lite.
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maha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. I Remember Ralph
When I was a college student ca. 1970s I though Ralph Nader was just about the finest person on the planet. He stood up against powerful and monied interests for the environment and the consumer.

But, fact is, in 2000 he sold us all out. By propagandizing young and impressionable people that there was no difference between the parties -- no difference between Al Gore and George Bush on the ENVIRONMENT, Mr. Nader? -- he sold out everything he ever worked for.

You can take Ralph Nader and shove him.
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Ardee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. thanks for the opinion,Maha
please keep your vituperative comments to yourself.Anger management is a good thing.....
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maha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Oh, sorry.
I didn't realize I wasn't allowed to say anything about Ralph Nader, even after he sold out everything he worked for his entire life. Silly me.

BTW, does anybody have any of the photos of Ralph schmoozing at Republican fundraisers that MWO ran awhile back?
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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. i'd interested in seeing those pics also.
Edited on Sun Nov-02-03 01:10 PM by KG
someone kindly post them along side some pics of gen. clark at a repook fund raiser, just for kicks. :)
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maha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. They were on Media Whores Online awhile back
I couldn't find the photos, but here's an open letter from MWO to Nader:

AN MWO OPEN LETTER TO RALPH NADER

Dear Ralph,

A number of your supporters have written MWO asking why we have criticized you so sharply since 2000, and especially in connection with your recent appearance at Grover Norquist's Wednesday Morning Group.

It occurs to us that inquiries should really be directed to you.

In soliciting an invitation to Norquist's group, you knew exactly whom you were getting involved with, didn't you? Not a harmless assembly of conservatives or Republicans, as some of your supporters seem to think, but the national nerve-center of the hard-right wing advocacy groups and political machinery.

The apex of coordinating the continuing right-wing attacks on economic justice, civil rights, freedom of choice, separation of church and state, gun safety, environmental protection, you name it.

And when you were there, you ingratiated yourself, seeking their support, noting that much of what they said was "good" and much of the rest at least "arguable," taking in their cheers and applause over your vital aid to them in the 2000 election, making fun of liberals as conspiracy freaks, winning kudos from Phyllis Schlafly and Grover himself.

Not all of your supporters seem aware of exactly who is involved in Norquist's Wednesday Group. So here's a partial list of the core members, which includes either leaders or representatives of:

-- The Christian Coalition
-- The National Rifle Association
-- The Free Congress Foundation
-- The Eagle Forum
-- Tom DeLay's office
-- The Republican National Committee

as well as representatives of the right-wing media, including (when they are in D.C.) the likes of John Fund and David Horowitz.

Now, Ralph, we don't see you out there these days soliciting invitations to meetings for and seeking the support of People for the American Way, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, the Alliance for Justice, the National Abortion and Reproduction Rights Action League, the Sierra Club, and similar liberal and progressive groups.

As far as you're concerned, it seems, YOU are the sole true embodiment of "progressivism," the one man who really speaks truth to power, the man who, in his passion to destroy the Democratic Party, will gladly keep the right-wing Republicans in power.

For you, it makes sense to run spoiler Green candidates against progressive liberal Democrats like Paul Wellstone, to insure their defeat so that the G.O.P. can retake the Senate in 2002.

For you, it makes sense to, in turn, give the G.O.P. the power to ram through George W. Bush's right-wing judicial nominees, consolidating the power of the Rehnquist-Scalia axis on the Supreme Court, and making the rest of the federal judiciary even more of a hotbed of right-wing activism than it is now.

For you, it makes sense to keep Tom DeLay in charge of the House of Representatives.

Let's face it, Ralph. You're so interested in destroying liberals that you'll meet with anyone and everyone who will aid that cause - including the Wednesday Morning Group.

Isn't that right? Or what have we missed?

Not just to speak when invited - you will solicit invitations to the right-wing inner counsels.

To what end, Ralph? To "speak truth to power"? Do you really expect anyone to believe that? Especially when you couch your truth in such a way as to assent with the basic soundness of a good deal of what the ultra-right desires and proposes. Especially when you speak your truth in such a way as Phyllis Schlafly lauds "the underlying message of Ralph"?

Ralph Nader has emerged as an agent of the right-wing Republican Party.

Everything he says or does has the direct practical effect of making the right-wing Republicans stronger, in the long run as well as the short run.

Having received 2% of the vote from the American people - one-tenth of what the dime-store demagogue Ross Perot received in 1992 - he tries to elect as many extremist Republicans to office as possible and worsen the lives of most Americans, under the insane assumption that he will eventually emerge as the electoral man on horseback.

He uses whatever underhanded, anti-democratic tactics he can in order to do so.

He will run spoilers in close elections, like in Minnesota.

He backs term-limits, a quick and dirty way to deprive Americans of their right to vote for a candidate of their choice and improve prospects for the Greens and worsen the prospects for veteran Democrats.

He hopes and intends to inflict so much pain on the country that voters will have no choice but to acknowledge his greatness or perish.

Ralph cloaks these efforts and facts by appealing to and manipulating people's idealism, their hopes for a better America and a better world, all the while snuggling up to the most reactionary and vicious forces in our political life.

The gun nuts.

The anti-abortion nuts.

The theocratic nuts.

The neo-Confederate nuts.

The term limits nuts (term limits being a good thing for your little sect, right Ralph?).

The tort reform nuts (fighting for corporations against the interests of consumers being a good thing, too, right Ralph?)

Ralph, we believe that you owe your supporters and admirers, many of whom read and support MWO, explanations for your appearance at the Wednesday Morning Group, for your alliances, past and present, with Grover Norquist, and for your larger efforts that redound to the benefit of the right-wing Republican Party.

We hope you will take the opportunity provided by this Open Letter to offer those explanations.

Our columns are, as ever, open to you.

Sincerely,

MWO

Here's the link, but please note that it might look like a blank brown page. You have to do a text highlight for the letters to appear.

http://mediawhoresonline.net/naderletter.htm


See also:

Nader praises Bush

Did Nader want Bush to win?

Nader: Unsafe in Any State

Gang Green

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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. that was an RNC fundraiser?
Edited on Sun Nov-02-03 01:35 PM by KG
btw - maybe someone could add a pic of dem. sen. zell miller endorsing the chimp for prez. in that on-line pantheon of great RNC supporters! :)
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maha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. The photographs I remember were of a GOP dinner.
Men in tuxedos, ladies in gowns. I don't know if it was a fundraiser or just a GOP get together. But there was Ralph all dolled up and shaking hands with the Powers That Be in the GOP.

I wish somebody had saved them.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-04-03 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #15
26. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
22. Deleted message
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-04-03 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #9
25. sold out...sold out....you mean like Zell Miller?
Dick Gephardt?
John Kerry?

Or, someone like Wesley Clark who can't "sell-out" considering he's not a Democrat?
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-04-03 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #7
24. young, impressionable people who don't vote?
He certainly didn't affect partisans like you.
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zonmoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
20. amen to that.
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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-01-03 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. no culpability for the craven democrats that thought invading iraq
was a good idea too and fell all over themselves to hand the power to commit mass murder to an ignorant moron?
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. Oh, NO!
Oh, how horrible. I'm so sorry for your nephew and your whole family.

That is one of my growing fears (panics, really) -- the deaths are quite bad and frequent enough, but there are so many maimings (physical and psychological) that are going on that aren't even being well-reported.

I'm really sorry about your nephew.

Eloriel
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 01:49 AM
Response to Original message
6. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
olmy Donating Member (109 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
10. My take on the decline of Western Civilization
The most important election in our country's history is given away and we will probably never recover in our lifetimes, by a man who should just shut up. Thanks for your imput Ralph, see the shrink, we are begging you.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
12. When you can't fault the message,
you must attack the messenger.
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maha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Are you saying we can't fault Ralph's message?
Ralph's message in the 2000 campaign revealed him to be a self-aggrandizing hypocrite. He has no credibility.
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zonmoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. if anything
the democrats message of becoming more and more like the rethugs is to blame.
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maha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-04-03 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #21
30. No.
We actually had a clear choice in 2000. On the one hand, there was a Dem who had demonstrated he "got" environmental issues better than most people on the planet. On the other hand was a Pug who had sold his state to polluters for their campaign contributions.

When Nader bounced around telling his groupies that there was no difference between the two, HE WAS LYING.
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-04-03 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #13
27. really?
How was he wrong?

And no more hearsay bullshit...you demonstrate his self-aggrandizing hypocritism through his actual words.
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OffWithTheirHeads Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-02-03 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
17. There are some here who go Coulter any time you mention Ralph
I've found that the best policy is to treat them just like I do Anthrax Ann. I just ignore them. BTW, thanks for the article.
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beyurslf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Can anyone who said there
is no difference in the parties in 2000 really say that today? Didn't Nader originally say he wouldn't campaign in states that were close and must wins for Gore?
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tedoll78 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-03 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. That..
Edited on Mon Nov-03-03 10:38 PM by tedoll78
was a lie then and it is a lie now. Any literate person can look at congressional voting scores and see the difference between the parties.
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-04-03 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #23
29. oh?
was there an opposition party to the war? to Bush's tax cuts? the Patriot Act?

Cosmetic issues are not separation...they're issues.
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-04-03 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #19
28. Nader never said that
but I still don't see the big difference...outside of a few specific issues, the basic drives are the same.
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