Thus I Refute Chyng Sun: Feminists for Porn by Nina Hartley

[benburch]

http://www.counterpunch.org/hartley02022005.html

February 2, 2005

Thus I Refute Chyng Sun

Feminists for Porn

By NINA HARTLEY

It was with a growing sense of outrage that I read Prof.Chyng Sun's report of her visit this past January to the Adult Entertainment Expo in Las Vegas. I couldn't help wondering it the author had done any prior research whatsoever into the active, twenty-year debate among women over the impact of pornography on their individual lives and their status as a gender. There's nothing new in her indignation, nothing fresh in her insights and nothing unfamiliar in her arguments. As a sex-worker and sex-worker advocate for over two decades, I've heard and read it all before.

The professor appears wholly unfamiliar with the work of accomplished, feminist women who reject her fundamental contentions about porn and sex-work. If she bothered to consider the writings of Nadine Strossen, Carol Queen, Pat Califia, Susie Bright, Wendy McElroy, Sallie Tisdale, Linda Williams, Annie Sprinkle, myself and others, her homework wasn't reflected in what she showed me. Clearly, testimony that failed to corroborate her pre-conceived notions of what porn is "really" about, or what it "really" means didn't register on her radar screen.

I am an R.N., a third-generation feminist and a First-Amendment activist as well as a porn performer with the longest continuous career in the history of the industry. I'm easy to find. In fact, I was in one place for four hours each day on the floor at AEE. She certainly found my husband, writer-director I.S. Levine, (whose videos and magazines appear under the name Ernest Greene). At her request, he granted her a two-hour, on-camera interview in good faith, hoping but not expecting to receive an open-minded hearing. Why did Professor Sun not speak to me? Could it be because she knew that my very existence argues against her core assertions? Where was the honest, fearless intellectual curiousity that is hallmark of the pioneering academic researcher?

<SNIP>
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I know Nina very slightly, and in my opinion, she is an amazingly intelligent person.

[adriennui]

1. as long as porn isn't violent

and consenting adults are involved, i really don't care. i'm not saying i would want to be a "porn star" and i'd have a breakdown if my daughter went into porn... but to each his own.

[benburch]

2. I wouldn't have ANY problem with my daughter going into it...

...as long as she got good advice as to her contract.

A large fraction of my friends are in that industry.

[cali]

3. I don't have a daughter, but

I do have a 19 year old son, and I would have a huge problem with his going into that industry. I find porn incredibly cheesy, and yes icky. I believe the best sex is about communicating on a pretty profound level, which kind of rules out the commercial.

[benburch]

5. For a performer, it is not about sex.

It is performance with the goal of turning other people on.

If you had ever seen a porn shoot, you'd know that there is very little spontaneous or erotic about it, and that real acting skills are required for a believable performance. Imagine having somebody yell "cut", and then having them fix the lighting for a half-hour, and then having to pick up where you left off as though no time at all had passed. Most people cannot manage it.

Its no more about sex for fun and communication than dancing in a musical is about dancing with your lover.

[cali]

7. I understand that.

But it's just not where I come from. Other people want to perform or watch or whatever, that's their business, but as far as I'm concerned, performing in front of cameras diminishes what sex is about.

[roguevalley]

6. I would. I would hope my kids would aspire to a higher

calling of service to mankind than fucking total strangers for money. And, it isn't the same as other professions for me. This one degrades the body and the soul in my opinion. I imagine there are some who find it a profession but too many don't.

Edit: Interesting added comment, Ben. I can imagine its not very sexy, but more business than anything.

[benburch]

8. I see nothing whatsoever degrading about it.

When I was in college, I worked summers for a septic and sewer contractor. I spent days down in holes with other people's shit. And if that isn't degrading, then no profession that you choose of your own free will could possibly be degrading.

[roguevalley]

10. agreed. lots of jobs suck. However, i guess I am just

a product of my generation. there were so few jobs open to women when i was in my prime that thinking about this as a career option is hard to imagine. also, i find it hard as a woman to find this okay but that is just me of course. i guess i just believe its more than just a transaction. IMHO, of course. :)

[benburch]

11. Fair enough! nt

[kiraboo]

25. I'm 42 and I agree wholeheartedly.

My belief is that when the time comes that porn is produced solely by legitimate business using intelligent, educated adult women only, then super, I'll go along with it. I won't view these women as liberated from anything but that's just me. Meanwhile, right now there are folks out there who use drugged, underage or desperate women and girls to produce their product. This is not an industry which by and large is concerned about women except as money-producing holes. IMHO. And no, I'm not a Christian and I'm not a narrow-minded prude, in case you were wondering.

[mongo]

27. Um.....

Meanwhile, right now there are folks out there who use drugged, underage or desperate women and girls to produce their product.

As far as underage performers, there have been exactly FOUR in the past 20 years, that have entered the industry (including Traci Lords). All of them presented realistic fake ID.

Yes, some performers have substance abuse problems, but they don't usually last long in the business. Miss an appointment to call and you get a very bad reputation very quickly.

As far as desperate, how desperate do you have to be to go stand on your feet for 8 hours at a cash register at Walmart. Personally, I'd rather work 10 days a week for 6 hours/day for 10 times or more money.

Your views are outdated propaganda.

[kiraboo]

28. With respect,

assuming that the available statistics on the adult entertainment industry mirror the facts is naive at best. I will not argue that there are not legitimate businesses out there who regularly file taxes and whose practices are legal and well-documented, this does not describe the entire industry. I would compare your statement to one which speaks to the legitimacy of the availability of medically necessary drugs through legal channels, but ignores the peddling of murderous drugs like crack and heroin through the illegal drug trade. The way this analogy differs of course is that I would be proud to see my daughter a doctor, and still not proud to see her performing as a crotch in a fully legal sex film. Oh call me crazy. But don't call me stupid or ignorant. I'm looking at the bigger picture. You may complain that I'm talking about two different industries. Here we disagree.

[mongo]

29. And your analogy

Calls the crack house around the corner part of "the pharmaceutical industry".

Crime is crime, and the adult industry is a legit industry. Not the same animal.

Are there people who make films with underage performers. Yes, they are called PEOPHILES and CRIMINALS.
You won't find their product on my shelves or in any adult bookstore across the country.

You are not looking at the bigger picture. You are posting hyperbole in order to broad-brush smear a legitimate industry.

[kiraboo]

30. I am sorry you don't like my analogy.

I didn't expect you would. I'm afraid we will not be able to persuade one another. That's okay by me.

[madrchsod]

12. i see nothing degrading either

in all the mainstream porn movies i have seen. the women know actually what the situation is and are not forced to do anything they don`t want to. porn and politics have gone "hand in hand" for thousands of years and it`s not going to go away anytime soon...

[pocoloco]

13. LOL

What if they became lawyers????

[benburch]

23. Now, that would be too much.

No child of MINE is gonna be a LAWYER!

:evilgrin:

[adriennui]

14. have you ever auditioned

:party: :party: :party: :party:

[benburch]

15. Nope!

I'm not the sort of hunk they are looking for.

I'm rather homely, in fact.

[adriennui]

16. most of the males aren't particularly attractive although

evan stone is sort of cute, but i think it would be sexier if there were young intellectual looking men.

[benburch]

17. Its a self image thing, I'm sure.

I can have sex in semi-public, like swing clubs, and am not self-conscious about it, but the thought of my face on film...

[eridani]

24. They sure are in gay porn!

Many straight and bi women like gay male porn for that reason.

[Ratty]

26. But how do you define violence?

Some radical feminists posit the act of intercourse itself as inherently violent against women. Others don't go that far but do see the "dehumanizing" of women as acts of violence. Most of us know violence when we see it, but I bet simple bondage would engender some disagreement still. I dislike when people redefine words like violence and rape to suit their philosophy. It's so 1984.

[bluestateguy]

4. Good article

Many of these anti-porn police are just leftist fascists doing the work of the right wing fascists in the so-called conservative "Christian" movement.

If this professor does not like porn she is invited not to watch it, or maybe she can ask Ben Shapiro out on a date instead.

[madrchsod]

9. ahhhhh nina...

what a woman! she`s a very intelligent lady and a very good spokeswoman for the adult industry. her movies were`nt shabby either

[Left Below]

18. I am a strong supporter of unfettered access to porn for all

two primary reasons-

1) It relieves women of the fundamentalist chains of Big Religion-- where they are not allowed to enjoy/participate/function as sexual creatures outside of matrimony.

2) Millions of young males pleasure themself to porn where penises are front and center - thus restricting the homophobia strapped to them by society.

Porn everywhere! Let the goose-stepping, braindead fundies have it! We all benefit.

[mongo]

19. An oldie but goodie of an article

Nina is a class act.

[benburch]

20. Oh! You said ACT.

Never mind. :evilgrin:

[mongo]

21. She damn classy in real life too...

[benburch]

22. Indeed she is...

But you seem to have missed my humor...