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AuntiePinko Donating Member (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 08:26 PM
Original message
Concern for the Troops Impeding Impeachment?
Dear Auntie Pinko,

I have been trying to come up with a reason why a more concerted effort hasn't been made to impeach Bush. Although I believe he should be impeached, I think I might have found a reason not to impeach him. The problem is the domino affect. If Bush is impeached, and I do believe there is more than enough proof, then Cheney would also need to be impeached. I believe they both have committed the same crimes against the U.S. Rumsfeld is also just as guilty and should be removed.

For these reasons, I don't believe any congressman would challenge this with our troops being deployed overseas. Not only has this never been done, it would be very bad timing with our military fighting.

I would appreciate your thoughts.

Jay from Colorado



Dear Jay,

You may have a point, there. Among other reasons, the prospect of having to hold not just Mr. Bush, but whomever might replace him in the Constitutional succession, to minimal standards of legal behavior and responsible public service would be some can of worms for Congress to open, especially while the Republican Party still controls the majority. Diogenes and his lantern would have a very tough time in today’s Washington. (He’s the ancient Greek philosopher who, among other things, was reputed to have pursued a long and unsuccessful search for an honest man.)

I would like to think that a concern for the morale of our men and women in the military would be a factor either way, but I am afraid there is little evidence that our current crop of elected officials regards “the troops” as anything more than backgrounds for photo ops or specious justifications for bad legislation. If our elected officials really cared about the well-being of the men and women serving in our military, they would be holding Mr. Rumsfeld accountable for his bad decisions in setting military policy and spending priorities. They would be asking questions about why military contractors are making such vast profits off boondoggle projects that do little to increase the safety and effectiveness of our troops, and why service personnel and their families are being asked to pay for their own transport for medical treatment and other outrages. They would be funding the VA to provide effective mental health services for veterans and their families as well as research and treatment for health problems subsequent to chemical exposure and depleted uranium exposure. They would be having serious and substantive discussions with the Pentagon about the ‘poverty draft’ and recruitment/training/promotion procedures.

So I’m afraid I do have to doubt that the effects of their decisions on deployed military personnel is a big factor in the discussions about whether impeachment proceedings should be initiated against Mr. Bush. However, they’re more than likely to use that as a justification for their actions if it will help them win points or at least cover their losses.

What are the big factors, then? Well for the comparative minority of Representatives who put the Constitution and the well-being of the Republic before their own ability to get re-elected, the factors probably include the effects of a vicious, protracted, chaotic partisan battle on a citizenry already deeply polarized and riddled with disaffection at both ends, as it were. From that standpoint it is a no-win situation for them, as the Americans who are boiling with frustration over their failure to act will vilify them just as energetically as the Americans who are furious about an attempt at impeachment, and the ones in the middle will simply want the endless toxic bickering to quit deadlocking the political process. Making a decision to pursue articles of impeachment under such circumstances could look like a pretty dry deal even if your primary concern was doing what is right under the law and the Constitution.

For the average run of elected Representatives, whose primary and overriding concern is their ability to get re-elected in two years, the big factors are likely to be the wishes of their major campaign contributors first, with ‘how it will look to the voters’ as a not-too-close second. It’s very easy for us here on DU to feel as though the groundswell in favor of impeachment is sufficient to support our Representatives in holding Mr. Bush accountable under the Constitution, but that’s a tough sell to Washington, where money (and voting machine manufacturers) talk a LOT louder than netspeak, bumper stickers, and e-mail petitions.

At this point, our best hope is that the election results of 2006 will be too emphatic for the Republicans to successfully cheat, manipulate, or spin, and too clear for the Democrats to ignore. When the American people show that they are paying attention, and that they care for the Constitution and the rule of law, and are disinclined to continue electing Representatives who don’t share that concern, they might be forced to make a few gestures at reform. From small gestures mighty tides can turn, especially when momentum changes in several places at once. That’s why, although I’m feeling very cynical indeed about conditions right now, Auntie is actually cautiously optimistic about the long term. We may still have some very difficult and maddening times to live through, but I have confidence in my fellow citizens, especially those here on DU.

Thanks for the question, Jay, and keep working to help make positive changes in Colorado!
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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-24-06 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. I was in a combat situation (Vietnam) during both Johnson's and
Nixon's travails.

Neither had any negative effect on those of us in the field.
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Wise Doubter Donating Member (458 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Well then, we need to get started ! n/t
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killerbush Donating Member (822 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
3. Consequences be damned, impeach!!!
Did the Republicans care about the troops when they were trying to impeach Clinton?? Hell no. Impeach NOW!!!!
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man4allcats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Hear! Hear!
I couldn't agree more. There is only one just course here, and we've put it off for far too long already. The only concession I would be willing to make is that, in the interest of maximizing our chances for success, we might want to wait until November (I am of course assuming, correctly I hope, that we will then control Congress), but now or then, those fools need to be sent packing. There is more than enough evidence to impeach, convict and imprison both The Chimp and Cheney. Let's do it!

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peaches2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. More than that...
Did the Republicans care about the troops when they gave King George the power to wage war whenever and wherever he chose in the war on terra? They thought of nothing but their own reelection, the troops be damned.
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
4. Comment
Edited on Thu May-25-06 09:41 AM by Jack Rabbit
I agree with our favorite Auntie that concern for the troops is not a major factor impeding impeachment. Most people know that "the troops" is a convenient Orwellian collective to easily turn the flesh and blood of America's fighting men and women into a political football. Somehow, the speaker always claims to speak for the troops. Most people know that the troops are individuals and that the personal feelings of each runs the gamut.



AUntie Pinko is quite right in suggesting that biggest obstacle to impeachment is Congress itself. The Republicans are obstinate and the Democrats are timid. Both stand in awe and fear of Bush, like Starbuck before Ahab in Moby Dick. Yet there seem nothing in which to be awe about Bush. There is nothing to fear. Bush is a paper tiger.

My biggest fear right now is that the Democrats will continue to be timid after taking control of Congress. My gut tells me that investigations will lead to multiple impeachments, but my head still asks: will the Democrats have the will to do it?

Diogenes from the website of Mark Young
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Lib Grrrrl Donating Member (801 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
6.  Jay, keep working to help make positive changes in Colorado!
yeah, like getting rid of that bitch, Musgrave, for starters!!
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Sad4world Donating Member (149 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
8. Impeachment
The impeachment of the Nazi Bush will never happen.
The criminals Cheney and Rumsfeld have been around a long long time and they know that even if there was impeachment of Bush, their agendas would continue.
Cheney and Rumsfeld have had this planned from the beginning of Bush's run for presidency.
Any reasonable person knows that impeachment of ALL of these criminals would only cause the economic fall of America to happen sooner than it will if these criminals stay in power.

Unfortunatly, the best thing the citizens of America need to do is to: Save money, pay off your credit cards, etc, and hope the American economy is still alive after these horrible people are gone.

The average American is in for the economic ride of they lives in the next 2&1/2 years. Hang on to your hats folks.
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Derigitable Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
9. From a Right Winger
Okay. Look. I really, really don't like Liberals, hate everything they stand for, can't stand to be with 'em in the same room; however, there are times when our interests align, and this is one of those times.

Don't give up on impeachment. Matter of fact, now is Bush's most vulnerable time in history, and now you're losing your nerve?

Now is your most opportune time.

Yes, I've spent years and years fighting you guys, sticking up for Bush. I counted myself in that 30 percent of the polls that always stuck up for Bush no matter what happened. And now I'm selling Bush out -- just like he sold his base out.

Go ahead. Zogby, take a poll. Bet Bush's numbers are down in the teens if he even gets that high. That's an optimistic number.

I'm one of those rabid right wingers that's going to be sitting at home on election night. I'll be buying a billboard too thanking Elizabeth Dole, for nothing.

So, please, now is the time for you to fire up your base for impeachment. The only thing saving Bush from you was his base, and watch us step out of the way.

Have at him.
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Thank you for the vote of confidence
I, for one, will welcome anybody willing to fight Bush and Cheney and remove them from office to our side of the barricades.



Liberty Leading the People (1830) by Eugène Delacroix
From the website of the University of Southern California

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