RE: the Evangelicals that sponsored the conference Sen. Obama spoke at

[Douglas Carpenter]

(BTW I am neither an Evangelical or a religious person at all and I personally give Sen. Obama mixed reviews regarding his tenure in the Senate)

The conference that Sen. Obama, Sen. Clinton and Gov. Dean were speaking at was sponsored by the Sojourners movement.

“They gave Obama thunderous applause when he proclaimed his support for separation of church and state and giving teenagers access to contraception." link:
http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/news/nation/14923089.htm

Sojourners are actually fairly left-wing on foreign policy and economic issues; and moderate on social issues.

Sojourners are the Evangelicals they were speaking to:

link for Sojourners:





http://www.sojo.net /

link for Sojourners Magazine:


http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=magazine.home

_______


Interview on Democracy Now with Rev. Jim Wallis (founder and leader of Sojourners) - link:

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/04/26/1355204

snip:"JIM WALLIS: Well, I think it's fine for people to bring their moral conviction, even their religious conviction in the public life. King did that. I do that. The religious right does that, but when you say those who oppose us, who have a different view, are not people of faith, or Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson said during the campaign, you can only vote for George W. Bush. Now they're saying you must also agree with all of his judicial nominees. Now this is really the hijacking of religion. It's making it into a partisan wedge and a weapon to divide us, not a bridge to bring us together. This is really the abuse and misuse of religion. We're having these town meetings across the country disguised as book signings. And what I'm learning is people are tired of the monologue of the religious right. And the good news, having been to the East and the Mid-West and the South and even Texas and the West, is the monologue of the religious right is now over. And a new dialogue has finally begun. "

"snip:"AMY GOODMAN: This event that took place just this Sunday, filibustering people of faith, took place in Louisville, Kentucky. You were there that day.

JIM WALLIS: Well, there was another service, a counter-service. 1,200 people showed up on about a week's notice. And that's what I'm finding all over the country, packed churches, to say, well, their faith isn't our faith, and the monologue doesn't represent the dialogue we now need to have. So, it was lots of energy in the room. Good preaching, good choirs. And people said, wait a minute, I don't agree, and they can’t say this. One guy from Kentucky said, he said, I have been an evangelical Christian my whole life. Imagine my surprise when I woke up and found the newspaper saying I'm not a person of faith. Imagine my surprise. It was great -- a great event to say, wait a minute -- because someone doesn't agree with the judicial nominee or a Senate procedure, you know, filibusters have been used for good and for ill. But, my goodness, this is not a theological matter here. So, they're really overstepping, they're overreaching. Last night, we had a debate. I was on with Dobson and Moler."

[TwentyFive]

1. No problem with religion - just keep it out government please!

I don't care if it's left wing, right wing or center....I get nervous about any religious group forming around some kind of public policy debate.

Public policy should be built around cold, hard facts. By definition, religion is faith...which means absence of facts. The founding fathers were smart to acknowledge the horrible history of mixing the two.

[Douglas Carpenter]

2. understand your point. But it would be hard to imagine Marlin Luther King

without mention of God or Faith. It would be hard to imagine the civil rights movement or almost any other major social movement in American history without mention of God or Faith. Now in France it is a taboo to mention religion in politics. And this is accepted across the political spectrum even on the conservative side. This goes back to their history of violent conflicts between Protestants and Catholics. But American society is very different. Religion has a lot more influence in America. And I personally believe that we need all the allies we can get to oppose the ideology of unbridled militarism and unrestrained capitalism. We need them both to restrain these forces within the Democratic Party and in the country as a whole.

Right now the Republicans almost claim a monopoly on God and Faith.

It's simply a mathematical impossibility to build a progressive majority without a whole lot of religious people. It simply cannot be done. Unfortunately, there are many religious people who feel unwelcome in the progressive movement. If this can be changed--it would do a lot to helping create a lasting progressive majority.

[TwentyFive]

5. I don't understand how the numbers would add up.

>>"It's simply a mathematical impossibility to build a progressive majority without a whole lot of religious people."

I agree that religion plays a big part of American life. But, where do you propose to get the 'whole lot of religious people' to fight them?

Just look at the numbers. The Southern Baptist Convention alone dwarfs all the liberal christian churches combined. Then, add in the church of christ, mormons, fundamentalist & evangelicals, etc. and it's about 8 to 1 conservative. What about catholics? Their biggest issues are gay rights and abortion, which puts them on the side of conservatives, as the last several elections prove. Prodestants? Most episcopals, lutherans and presbyterians are moderate to conservative and vote about 60-75% republican.

And, which way are the trends going? Evangelical churches are the fastest growing. Hispanics are the fastest growing ethnic group and they are 90% catholic. If this isn't bad enough, consider that most rabid right wing types converted as 'born again' adults like george bush, ralph reed and tom delay. Even pat robertson was a heathen secular type who had a child out of wedlock before he found the evangelical light.

I don't want to rain on your parade. But liberal christianity is a minority religion. My recommendation is to do the smart thing and learn from another minority religion - the jews. Jews are at the forefront of defending the separation of church & state, and for good reason.

[TwentyFive]

6. What about gays and women?

>>"would be hard to imagine the civil rights movement or almost any other major social movement in American history without mention of God or Faith."

Most, if not all, social movements are a reaction AGAINST traditions of christianity/god/faith. Gay rights. Women's rights. Slavery was never condemned in the bible, and was used as the moral basis for racism. MLK was but one leader in the black civil rights movement. He could never have gotten where he did without the black panthers or MalcolmX scaring the white folk. Blacks weren't gonna take the shit anymore.

[dsc]

3. I am not all that impressed with their social moderation

Thinking I should live a celebrate life isn't all that moderate. I deeply appreciate their views on poverty and I do think that they are sincere in their beliefs but at times they are sincerely wrong.

[Douglas Carpenter]

4. Well they are certainly not anti-gay rights. Although as religious

Evangelicals I suspect their views very; but are not something I agree with them on either; not at all.

However, I do see them as very important allies in the fight against unbridled militarism and unrestrained capitalism. These are extremely important areas of common ground. And at least we can be assured that they will not push a hostile agenda toward gay people.