They have a little list; if you're on it, you'll be pissed.

[weldon_berger]

The New York Times has a lengthy article on a "new" FBI program aimed at monitoring protests and protesters. Read it, and if you're old enough you'll have a delightful flashback to the good ol' days of cross-dressing FBI chiefs and COINTELPRO.

The F.B.I. is dangerously targeting Americans who are engaged in nothing more than lawful protest and dissent," said Anthony Romero, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union. "The line between terrorism and legitimate civil disobedience is blurred, and I have a serious concern about whether we're going back to the days of Hoover."

Herman Schwartz, a constitutional law professor at American University who has written about F.B.I. history, said collecting intelligence at demonstrations is probably legal.

But he added: "As a matter of principle, it has a very serious chilling effect on peaceful demonstration. If you go around telling people, `We're going to ferret out information on demonstrations,' that deters people. People don't want their names and pictures in F.B.I. files."

The abuses of the Hoover era, which included efforts by the F.B.I. to harass and discredit Hoover's political enemies under a program known as Cointelpro, led to tight restrictions on F.B.I. investigations of political activities.

Those restrictions were relaxed significantly last year, when Attorney General John Ashcroft issued guidelines giving agents authority to attend political rallies, mosques and any event "open to the public."

The article also mentions the people suing the government in an attempt to find out how they got on the "no-fly" lists circulating among airlines. Losing your right to travel at will seems to me to be a more egregious transgression than getting your very own FBI file, but that could change in short order.

We're winning: the fewer freedoms we have, the less we'll annoy the terrorists.

[liberalhistorian]

1. Is there some way we can find out if we're

on the list? I don't doubt that I am, but I'd like to be prepared. And that's why I refuse to fly until all of those fucking fascist police state screening programs are totally discontinued, it's simply unbelievable to me all that the airlines think they have the right to know about me. I will NOT give them access to my credit report, traffic ticket records, etc., etc., down to a $2.00 check I may have bounced ten years ago, just to board a fucking plane, that's BULLSHIT!

[weldon_berger]

5. The only way I've heard of to find out if you're on the no-fly list

is to book a flight and see if the airline allows you on the plane. I'm in Hawaii, so it's a bit difficult to get anywhere without traveling by plane unless I want to spend a couple thousand on a cruise or hitch a ride on a fishing boat headed for Alaska (and after seeing The Perfect Storm, I think I don't want to do that).

[ijk]

9. I almost like the list.

I mean, not literally, of course, but in a lot of ways this sort of harassment can work to our advantage. It's not 1960; the FBI doesn't have all the cards in their hands any more. When activists get harrassed nowadays, we've learned how to get the word out, and even in the face of the corporate media some people do hear it and get woken up by it. If we're going to have a quasi-fascist government anyway, I'd rather they be the most obvious, evil-looking fascists possible, if you see what I'm saying.

[htuttle]

16. If you ask if you're on the list...

....you'll get put on the list.

The same used to be true with FOIA files. If you didn't have an FBI file previously, asking for it under FOIA will cause them to create one.

[Ksec]

2. Maybe theyll round us up and torture us

Fascists!

[weldon_berger]

6. Strapped to a chair

and forced to watch Bush speeches until you confess ...

[JailBush]

3. I have a little list, too...

of corporate whores and those who collaborate with them. My list focuses mostly on the "Seattle Mafia," but it includes some national figures as well.

[elizkwalker]

4. This has possibilities...

If it means Ashcroft will show up in drag at the next demo, I'm all for it.

[weldon_berger]

7. I wrote a little thing a couple of years ago

about Ashcroft inheriting Janet Reno's ball gowns when he took office. Nobody bought it.

[newyawker99]

11. Hi elizkwalker!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[shance]

8. This should be sent to Dianne Feinstein's office

Who has said she has not received any information on Patriot Act abuses.

Well here it is Senator.

How is it legal that they can ground citizens just because they dont like their political affiliation or beliefs???

[Dudley_DUright]

10. I guess the Senator has not yet heard of the Vegas strip club

FBI investigation where they used provisions of the Patriot act to circumvent having a judge issue warrants for financial records.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2003/11/08/patriot_act_gets_mixed_review_in_vegas/

[1a2b3c]

13. Who could trust a person

Who had a permit to carry a concealed gun yet wanted to ban gun ownership from civilians? Sounds a bit elitist to me. I gotta wonder how she keeps getting elected.

[karlschneider]

12. My answer is "Bring 'em on."

:grr:

[DinahMoeHum]

14. Methinks we should take a cue from the late Jerry Rubin. . .

and the "yippies" from the 60's.

They considered getting on such a list to be a badge of honor. Same thing for getting a subpoena to testify before Congress. Not getting one led to what Jerry Rubin called "subpoenas envy".

:evilgrin:

[CWebster]

15. But you see

they will claim it is all under the mantle of fighting terrorism. That is why the entire notion of fighting terrorism is so dangerous.

bin Laden's right hand man outlined 3 aims: Destroy US individual liberties and freedoms, drain US wealth and have the US split up by geographical region.

I never forgot seeing that obscure interview before all media coverage of bin Laden was yanked(because they might be sending secret coded messages).

[weldon_berger]

17. I have no idea how reliable this is,

since it comes from Cigar Afficiando (!) via NewsMax, but NewsMax quoted from a CA interview with Tommy Franks, late of Operation Iraqi Clusterfuck, in which Tommy speculated that another major terrorist attack could result in the suspension of the Constitution. I couldn't tell whether or not he was attracted to the notion.