It's NOT Anti-Americanism, It's Anti-Republicanism

[Triana]

Sat Nov 29, 2003
Straight talk
Zafar Sobhan

...

Let me reiterate: this is why people dislike Americans.

But let's get one thing straight. Most people are able to draw a distinction between Charles Krauthammer and all Americans. We realise that thankfully he doesn't represent the whole country. We realise that the US is filled with people of good conscience and generosity who do not share Krauthammer's smug certitude or intemperate xenophobia.

It's not really America that we dislike. It is a certain conception of America personified by the likes of Dennis Miller and Charles Krauthammer that we dislike.

The America that most people dislike is the America that is arrogant and xenophobic and says to hell with the rest of the world.

It is the America that conducts its foreign policy in a tone that seems calculated to offend and has nothing but disdain for world opinion.

It is the America that dismisses all criticism of America as the product of envy and self-loathing.

In short, what most people dislike is not Americans so much as it is the attitude that is embodied by a certain kind of American. And this certain kind of American has found a home for the past half century in the Republican party.

...

It is this kind of American that most people around the world have a problem with.


http://www.thedailystar.net/2003/11/21/d31121020326.htm

[Faygo Kid]

1. Right on - but anti-Bush will mean anti-Americanism in 2004

That's the whole thrust of Bush's re-election campaign, isn't it? Dissent is traitorism. Get used to it.

[pansypoo53219]

2. charles cabbagehammer

can kiss my ass. and all the rest of those asshole puncraps.

[pansypoo53219]

3. Charlie cabbagehammer

can kiss my ass.
no, make that my barefooten feet.

[LoZoccolo]

4. Part of the problem is we beg people...

...to not think we are unpatriotic. It plays into their game of distracting you from the real issue. They know they're trying to fuck with your head with all the "anti-American" stuff, and you don't need to convince them that it's a lie. They've most likely been to school, took government & history class, know the bill of rights, etcetera. If they don't know the principles this country was founded on, that's prima facie unpatriotic. Don't spend an extra second trying to convince them you're right on this. Assert you are, let them know you don't appreciate them trying to play this game, and keep going.

I had an exchange like this with someone (I later found out they were an on-duty undercover cop!) while I was collecting signatures to get Dean on the primary ballot.

BUSH SUPPORTER: Were you against the war?
ME: Yes.
BUSH SUPPORTER: Let me put it this way. Were you against 9/11?
ME: That's such horse shit.
BUSH SUPPORTER: <smiles, as if caught>

They know what they're doing. Just let them know you know they're wasting their time and yours by even saying it.

[truth2power]

9. I wish everyone would start doing what Lozoccolo says, above.

"Don't spend an extra second trying to convince them you're right on this. Assert you are, let them know you don't appreciate them trying to play this game, and keep going."

Plaid Adder said the same in an article on the home page here a few days ago, talking about Fundies, but it applies here as well. "What I mean is that you cannot waste good time and money trying to bring them around to your point of view...There is not way to win an argument with a fundamentalist and there is no point in trying."

I think we need to stop wasting our energy trying to bring the Repukes over to our side. When they're not blatantly trying to manipulate the discussion (as in the exchange noted above) you can be sure that their mindset is based totally on belief and emotion. No amount of documentation on your part is going to change their minds. It's a waste of energy that would be better spent doing almost anything else.

Let them do their own research - or not - as they choose.

I have an acquaintance who, every time I mention some Bushite outrage, responds with something like "But, Slick Willie..." Bah!! I just simply won't go there. I tell him that's a red herring and that if he continues to refocus every discussion in this manner, we have nothing further to discuss.

We should get into the habit of asserting that we're right and moving on.

[LoZoccolo]

10. Hmmm...I wasn't actually saying that.

I was trying to say that there are tactics they know are completely knowingly manipulative and based on lies - like questioning someone's patriotism because you disagree with the war or the former governor - that you should call them on, throw aside, and keep talking about the real issue. If you know that they know that they're telling a lie, tell them "you know that's a lie", and get back to the real issue. Don't beg them to believe something they already know, like that it's not only OK to dissent, but it's essential that we do in order to get the best thinking heard. Because their assertions are often so vague it's hard to prove anyways ("the media is liberal", "liberals hate America", "liberals are elitists"). After a few times getting caught in lies, they'll start getting embarassed and perhaps start questioning the propagandists who feed them this stuff and set them up for that embarassment.

I actually do believe a big number of conservatives can be won over this way. The Republican brand name has cachet to a certain group of people that like to pretend they're rich and successful, but if their parroting of propaganda becomes a liability to them by becoming a constant embarassment, they'll have to think about the actual contents of their philosophy.

[SemperEadem]

13. gather up your pearls

the swine aren't listening

[arikara]

5. The kind of American that we have a problem with

is the banana-republicans... we love the rest of you for the good people that you are.

[JailBush]

6. I disagree.

I do think we should make distinctions and recognize the fact that not all Americans are bad. But I don't think bad Americans are limited to Republicans. I've pulled my hair out for years fighting corruption and tyranny here in liberal Seattle. There's little difference between Republicans and King County Democrats (or the Green Party of Seattle, for that matter), and ordinary Seattle citizens are ASSHOLES. They may be friendly to your face, but they don't give a damn about others - just look at the thugs they elect to public office.

Democracies don't run themselves. They require participation by intelligent, caring people. I've met too many Seattle liberals who don't vote or screw up elections with their world class stupidity. There are consequences for actions and inaction alike.

[The Backlash Cometh]

7. Yes, yes, YES!

It's not America that's the problem, it's Republican policies which are destroying everything that's good about this country.

[cpa]

8. Anti-Americanism

The British made it very clear that they are anti-Bush-not anti-American. It is omportant that people make that distinction.

[The Backlash Cometh]

11. I always have. It was the only sane reply to the idiot Republican's

question, "Why do you hate America."

My reply to them was, "I love my country, but I hate you."

[BeFree]

12. You can feel sorry for the first

Fool who asks me "Why do you hate America"

I'll be all over him like the red on the flag.

Anyone who asks that, doesn't even begin to understand what America is.
Anyone who asks that, shows themselves to actually be anti-American.

Folks, people have died to ensure that America remains free. That freedom is the right to disagree with the govt. That freedom is the right to question anything the govt does. Without those freedoms we are slaves and anyone who disagrees with that is one, who, given half a chance, would try to enslave me.

I pity the fool.