El País newspaper: Chávez "has crossed the line" with war call

[ChangoLoa]

Source: El Universal

Spanish newspaper El País thinks that President Hugo Chávez "has crossed the line" by urging the military and civilians "to prepare for war" in the face of a possible attack from the United States and Colombia.

El País published on Thursday an editorial entitled "Chávez has gone too far." The subtitle is "The Venezuelan President prepares for war accusing Colombia of having aggressive goals," Efe reported.

Chávez urged on Sunday the Venezuelan military and civilians "to prepare for war" in case of a possible attack originated in the United States.

El País added that, despite the fact that the "impasses and apparent reconciliations" between Chávez and Colombian President Álvaro Uribe "have a certain tradition," this time "the architect of Chavezism, an alleged radical left-wing movement, has gone too far."

Read more: http://english.eluniversal.com/2009/11/12/en_pol_esp_el-pais-newspaper:-c_12A3044173.shtml

[fascisthunter]

1. lol....

[SkyDaddy7]

2. Seriously,..

Chavez using a page out the GOP playbook...FEAR FEAR FEAR!

[EFerrari]

8. He's only saying the same thing other South American leaders are saying.

If the United States kept arming an out of control homocidal government on YOUR border, you wouldn't be happy either.

US Bases in Colombia Questioned


BRAZIL, Chile and Spain today challenged the United States' decision to use and expand military bases in Colombia, saying they feared the move could heighten simmering tensions in Latin America. President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva of Brazil and...

http://article.wn.com/view/2009/07/30/US_bases_in_Colombia_questioned

[ChangoLoa]

10. I heard no other South American leader telling his people to "prepare for war"

That's the line that was crossed by him alone.

[EFerrari]

13. You didn't hear Chavez say that either but don't let that stop you!

Hugo Chavez is stealing my mail! :wow:

And I guess you don't hear much.

Brazil's Lula defends South America arms buildup, including Venezuelan purchases

BRASILIA, Brazil - Major military weapons purchases by Brazil and Venezuela won't spur an arms race in South America and are necessary to protect borders and natural resources, Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva said Friday.

http://www.canadaeast.com/rss/article/796303

[Judi Lynn]

15. Love the next part of this article:

Silva also downplayed concerns raised this week from U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton that purchases planned by Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez could destabilize the region.

"Venezuela is a country with huge amounts of oil and natural gas, and Chavez was the victim of a coup, so it's normal that he is getting prepared," Silva said in an interview with Brazil's Radio Guaiba. Chavez was briefly ousted from power in a 2002 coup.

Thanks for the link, EFerrari.

Too bad more people don't take the time to actually understand the subjects they're trying to discuss. Nothing like getting the story right FIRST before trying to give an opinion on it.

[EFerrari]

16. It's very clear that the PTB are trying to isolate Chavez

for saying what the majority of Latin American leaders are saying: What the hell is the US doing upping the militarization of the train wreck we know as Colombia?

It's so easy. Just reframe it as "Chavez only" and then no one has to think about it. :shrug:

[ChangoLoa]

17. Yes I did, he said "Army men, let's not loose even one day in our main mission: PREPARE FOR WAR""

And he said a LOT more.
Of course, you see no Venezuelan state TV in the US, which makes it easy for you to deny what's completely evident everyday for us.

Well, if you don't wanna believe me, just believe HIM as he speaks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSyv_--qyOw

[EFerrari]

19. Did he say he was coming for our guns, too?!

Hugo Chavez kicked my dog!

[Judi Lynn]

23. We have DU'er posters who DO listen to radio/tv broadcasts from ALL over Latin America,

including Telesur. We have one who has done this far longer than there has ever been message boards. Many DU'ers travel back and forth, and many have lived there a long time.

We have an American poster living in Venezuela right now whom many of us deeply appreciate. We had a poster who kept us informed almost minute to minute during the filthy coup against Hugo Chavez.

It's so unlikely the only people who know the truth about Venezuelan events are right-wingers. This isn't a right-wing forum, by the way.

[ChangoLoa]

28. The images I posted were taken from Venezolana de Television (state TV), I'm not a "right winger"

And you should stop acting like a mod. If you have a problem with something report it to the mods. Otherwise, let people express freely and be welcome if, exceptionally this time, you have something substantial to say about the issue that concerns my country.

It's your right to admire Castro and Chavez with all your heart but it's mine to comment the things I want without having a witch hunter making personal attacks and telling lies about my political opinions.

Almost everytime I post something you do the same... you've called me an oligarch, an agent from the American government against my own country, a fake Venezuelan.... what's the point?!

Try to debate instead.

[dotymed]

45. This is not important

go to "democracynow.org", read how we are paying the Taliban protection money so we can truck our weapons through their turf, and then fight them. Chavez would never do such an underhanded stunt to his people. Feed the warpig...

[mcablue]

36. You linked to a 2 minute video that cherrypicks words from a speech that lasted hours

Chavez' Sunday show, "Alo Presidente,"often lasts about five hours" according to Wikipedia, yet you claim that a 2 minute video contains the totality of his statements.

[ChangoLoa]

40. ?

The totality of his statements?!

Impossible task. Where have I claimed such a thing?

[spanza]

42. Of course! You should have retranscripted the 80 (?) pages of his 5 hour SHOW

in order to show us
that he did say "prepare for war" to the nation and implied that the internal opposition to him is "apatrida"
but that there's really nothing to say about that language
because the whole idea was "if you want peace, prepare for war"

[Judi Lynn]

41. Good to see your post, mcablue!

Welcome to D.U.! :hi:

[rapturedbyrobots]

46. except they are actually killing

venezuelan troops along the columbian border. if that happened here, on the border with mexico there would be hell to pay.

[Judi Lynn]

3. A post rehashing an editorial is not Late Breaking News. n/t

[robcon]

4. War monger as well as fascist dictator: Chavez has the playbook

n/t

[EFerrari]

14. He has nukes pointed at the Baseball Hall of Fame.

I'd secure my cup if I were you. :)

[frylock]

27. cup check!

[EFerrari]

5. Hugo Chavez got peanut butter on my chocolate!

[WriteDown]

6. Chavez could make a coat out of the skins of newborn babies...

and some posters here would praise him for using a renewable resource.

[Akoto]

7. Somehow, I doubt Venezuela is high on Obama's priority list. n/t

[EFerrari]

9. After the bobbling in Honduras, I'm afraid Latin America isn't even on the list.

And that's too bad.

[mcablue]

11. Chavez didn't call for war. He called for peace

He said "If you want peace you have to be ready for war."

The western media is misrepresenting his words. His move was a defensive, not offensive move.

the US is a living example that if you arm yourself well, nobody will mess with you. Russia does it. Our big allies do it. They ready their forces so as to avoid war.

[EFerrari]

12. You're screwing up the Official Story!

Welcome to DU, mcablue.

[ChangoLoa]

18. The exact declarations by Chavez were...

Do you speak spanish?

"Señores militares no perdamos ni un día en el cumplimiento de nuestra principal misión: Prepararnos para la guerra y ayudar al pueblo a prepararse para la guerra, porque es responsabilidad de todos"

"Army men, let's not loose even one day in achieving our main mission: PREPARE FOR WAR and help the people preparing for war, because it's our responsibility"

"Señor comandante de la guarnición militar, batallones de milicia, vamos a formar los cuerpos de milicianos, a adiestrarnos. Estudiantes revolucionarios, trabajadores, mujeres: ¡Todos listos para defender esta patria sagrada que se llama Venezuela!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSyv_--qyOw

Of course, I don't expect many American people to care for this since the closest they'll ever be from the madness where these 2 psychos (Chavez and Uribe) could be taking us, Colombian and Venezuelan brothers, is 2 meters away from their TVs...

[EFerrari]

20. Calling for readiness and calling for aggression are two different things.

Do you speak Spanish? It's hard to tell from your posts. :eyes:

[ChangoLoa]

22. El País thinks that President Hugo Chávez "has crossed the line" by urging the military and civilian

"to prepare for war". That was the point.

¿Por qué me sigues preguntando si hablo español cuando ya te dije que soy venezolano?

De paso, si empiezas hablando de algo en serio, no te rajes con chistecitos ridículos después, cuando te das cuenta que estás equivocada.

[EFerrari]

30. Yes. I guess Hugo Chavez just invented national security.

Someone needs to alert El Pais!

[ChangoLoa]

32. Waiting for him to invent diplomacy now...

[EFerrari]

44. Venezuela enjoys good relations all over the world. n/t

[struggle4progress]

21. *sigh* Colombia-Venezuela conflict: Uribe, satisfied ... (Momento 24)

Following a meeting between President Álvaro Uribe and about 20 Congressmen from ruling party, some legislators at the meeting said that the Colombian head of state welcomed Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez’s .. stating .. “prepare for war” speech last Sunday was just a call for “my people and my soldiers to further prepare themselves to defend this country from the threat of seven military bases next to us here in Colombia.”

Senator Manuel Guillermo Mora said .. the president .. feels there “is an atmosphere for dialogue” that calms the country and the continent.

For his part, Senator Armando Benedetti .. added that it was clear to the pro-government caucus that there’s a “normal and friendly” climate with a president with which Colombia has had the most conflicts.

http://momento24.com/en/2009/11/12/colombia-venezuela-conflict-uribe-satisfied-with-chavezs-change-of-attitude/

[ChangoLoa]

24. Uribe welcomes Chávez's "change of position"

The statements of Venezuela's President Hugo Chávez clarifying that he does not intended to wage a war with Colombia were welcomed by sources close to the Colombian presidential palace Casa de Nariño.

"President (Álvaro Uribe) told us that, even though he does not view President Chávez's new remarks as a total change of stance, he is actually very happy with this new tone and he welcomes it as a positive step to improve relations," said ruling party Senator Manuel Mora, after a meeting with Uribe, AFP reported.

According to the Colombian lawmaker, Uribe thinks that the reaction of Venezuela's President hints "the possibility of starting talks (between the two governments) to reach a diplomatic tone."

The Venezuelan ruler, however, said on Wednesday that he has not changed his tone. "Since I did some reflections (on Tuesday), some people said (on Wednesday) that Chávez has changed his discourse: he calls for war in the morning and calls for peace at night (...) Media manipulation is harmful if you do not fight back with ideas," Chávez added.

At the UN
Chávez's statements set off alarms in the international community and were taken to the UN Security Council by Colombia.

The Colombian permanent representative to the UN sent a diplomatic note to the UN Security Council complaining about "Venezuela's threats of using force against Colombia."

Meanwhile, former Venezuelan ambassador Milos Alcalay believes that Chávez's new statements imply that "he is backpedaling."

In this sense, Alcalay said that the Charter of the United Nations prohibits not only the use of force but the threats to use it. However, the former Venezuelan diplomat added that the UN Security Council has mechanisms to convene talks between the parties.

Link
http://english.eluniversal.com/2009/11/12/en_pol_esp_uribe-welcomes-chave_12A3043411.shtml

[struggle4progress]

29. A quick summary:

Neighbor 3: You guys wanna come over for beer?
Neighbor 1: Look out! I've ordered a truckload of guns and ammo!
Neighbor 2: Yeah? Around here, if anybody tries to pull any shit, we'll smeck em in the schnozz!
Neighbor 3: You guys wanna come over for beer?
Neighbor 1: Eeek! A threat! I'm calling the police, you thug!
Neighbor 2: I meant it only in the most peaceful way!
Neighbor 1: How lucky for everyone you backed down!
Neighbor 3: Hey, you guys wanna come over for beer?

[ChangoLoa]

31. HahaHa

Neighbor 2: I haven't backed down, that's ridiculous! I've just clarified what I meant...

Neighbor 4: If the cops come down, we'll kick their pink asses anyway! Neighbor 1 is a fucking traitor, he's even given his house to the police!
http://english.eluniversal.com/2009/11/09/en_pol_esp_evo-morales-backs-ch_09A3027291.shtml

Neighbor 5: Come on... neighbor 2 is such a violent asshole! Let's all share a joint instead of fighting! Put on the Peter Tosh track...
http://english.eluniversal.com/2009/11/12/en_pol_esp_vicente-fox-accuses_12A3044451.shtml

Neighbor 3: Maconha... hmm

[Judi Lynn]

25. Thanks for the link. n/t

[mcablue]

33. You linked to a video that does not contain the whole speech

You linked to a news outlet that showed snippets of his Sunday show.

Reuters quoted Chavez directly: ""Prepare yourselves for war," Chavez told his military commanders during his regular Sunday TV program. "If you want peace you have to be ready for war."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSyv_--qyOw

Do you have the transcript to the whole show?

[ChangoLoa]

35. The transcript?

Like the english translation?? Alo Presidente is a show of many hours. I have a longer video of the part when he talks about the situation with Colombia (7:09). The quoting I made starts at 3:26.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bP1PAFxqddI

[mcablue]

34. And Peru's oldest newspaper (trust me, they know Spanish) quoted the peace part

"“La mejor forma de evitar la guerra es preparándose para ella”, dijo Chávez a los oficiales del ejército durante su mensaje semanal por televisión y radio. “Si quieres la paz, prepárate para la guerra”, afirmó, repitiendo una máxima militar que suele emplearse con cierta frecuencia."

http://elcomercio.pe/noticia/366172/hugo-chavez-pide-venezolanosprepararse-guerra-colombia

[ChangoLoa]

37. Check Alo Presidente...

So you can make your own opinion. And yes, he also said that proverb and talked about the war of 100 years that would start if the Empire attacked us...

He also said one thing that I found terrible. "The escualidos (a mixed concept he uses for calling opponents, rich, etc..) are a fifth column here, let's know that. They are apatrids. As apatrids as the Colombian oligarchy is... those oligarchs from here. And they are spread everywhere. So let's not loose any time, Comander of the Military Reserve and all Commanders from the Militia Batallions. Let's form the Corps of Militias, let's get in shape. The revolutionary students, who are the majority, the workers, the women. All of us ready to defend this sacred fatherland called Venezuela". (3:45)

[mcablue]

38. You seemed to deny that he said the peace part

Previously, you said "His exact declarations were..." and then you linked to the snippet, as if those had been his only exact words.

[ChangoLoa]

39. I don't deny that he said the proverb. The part that worried me was the one

I quoted. I didn't say it was his only exact words, just the ones El Pais was referring to.

By saying this "Chavez didn't call for war. He called for peace... He said "If you want peace you have to be ready for war.""
I thought you were implying that El Pais, a progressive newspaper, had invented this words: "Our main mission: prepare for war".

But, by the way, I don't like that proverb neither... "prepare for war if you want peace".

Si vis pacem, para bellum... is the best proverb to describe Roman Imperialism. So no, I don't like it.

[StarfarerBill]

43. Good point.

And when we want to go to war, we don't declare or proclaim it nowadays...we just do it.

[Joe Chi Minh]

26. !U GO UGO! (That's American for "Bully for you, Ugo!" Texting, I expect)