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naaman fletcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-10 06:59 PM
Original message
Venezuela's Chavez orders expropriation of iron, aluminum makers, transport companies
http://tinyurl.com/25ap6z6

Venezuela's Chavez orders expropriation of iron, aluminum makers, transport
companies

CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) -- President Hugo Chavez announced Saturday the
expropriation of a group of iron, aluminum and transportation companies in
Venezuela's mining region.

Among the expropriated companies is Materiales Siderurgicos, or Matesi,
which is the Venezuelan subsidiary of Luxembourg-based steel maker Tenaris
SA.
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IndianaJoe Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-10 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. Chavez is really wrecking Venezuela. n/t
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subsuelo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-10 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. yeah that's why he and his party members keep getting re-elected. n/t
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IndianaJoe Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-10 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Yeah, well Hitler got elected too.
His "Bolivarian" Party mouths a lot of populism, but he's corrupted the judiciary, stifled the press, and eliminated any opportunity for opposition. He's no democrat, if that's what you're implying. More in the mode of Juan Peron.
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subsuelo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-10 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. yeah - Venezuela is just so much like Nazi Germany.
:crazy:
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IndianaJoe Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-10 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. There are quite a few people that Chavez has locked up
He's made a lot of funny friends with the FARC in Colombia and Castro's Cuba, and a fair share of people have "disappeared" in Venezuela. I didn't say Chavez was Hitler. But he's no angel.
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cowman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-10 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Plus
he's got a lot of cuban "advisors" in the country.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-10 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Ooh, he has Cuban advisors--now I know I'm supposed to hate and fear him!
Edited on Sun May-16-10 10:26 PM by Lydia Leftcoast
:sarcasm:

Sorry, folks. I've seen this movie before, several times in fact. Any Latin leader who gets uppity with the U.S. receives the full demonization treatment. He's lucky if he's JUST overthrown and not assassinated.

Ask Guatemala, the Dominican Republic, Brazil, Chile, Haiti...

Meanwhile, we have a crew of people on this board who seem to live to bash Chavez. They'd probably bash the presidents of Ecuador and Peru, too, if those countries had the kinds of oil reserves that Venezuela has.
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IndianaJoe Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-17-10 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Right.
We're "bashing" Chavez solely because we here at Dem Underground want his oil!

Sheesh!
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-17-10 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. No, because your employers want his oil
And stop arguing like a right-winger (i.e. arguing against what I didn't say).
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IndianaJoe Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-10 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. My employers want Chavez's oil?
Where do you get that? I am self-employed. I am an immigration lawyer in Indianapolis.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-10 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Whatever
n/t
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classysassy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-17-10 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Here in america we have more prisoners
than any other country on the planet.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-17-10 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Provide credible links to your claims. It's necessary. as we don't take anyone's claims as evidence.
It would be excellent seeing some of those valid links to evidence of "disappearances," like the ones everyone knows have happened in all the countries controlled by military juntas, and US-supported criminal butcher puppets throughout the Americas.

As you should know, RCTV continued to operated for a long time after it collaborated in both planting false "news" to keep the Venezuelan people in the dark about the coup, and in a news blackout, as well, as well as directly carrying live support for overthrowing Hugo Chavez in the run-up to the oligarchy's attempted coup.

The coup's military leader was captured on video from RCTV commending them for their assistance, swearing they couldn't have done it without their help.

We all knew that years ago at D.U. We also had a moral, respectable D.U. member who was in Caracas at the time who was in constant contact with D.U.'ers throughout the coup, keeping a running account of it all.

It's clear what you're attempting, flinging out a wide assortment of bogus, over-worn claims from the right-wing which have no merit whatsoever, knowing each one would take our own precious time in refuting, since there is a lot of information online to locate to accomplish it.

It's easy to spread disinfirmation, while it takes much more time to find all the material needed to close the matter.

Who are his "funny friends" in the FARC?

Why is he NOT allowed to follow his conscience and communicate with Fidel Castro? You don't seem to recognize that kind of smear is shabby nasty gibberish. Fidel Castro is respected and visited by ALL the Latin American leaders with only a few exceptions like the butcher puppets Alan Garcia and Alvaro Uribe, etc.

Do not hope to imagine you are going to hijack and misinform an entire website. Most of us tend to do our homework here.

Don't forget to post that information about Hugo Chavez and your statement he "disappears" his political opponents.
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IndianaJoe Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-17-10 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Check out Human Rights Watch or the State Department
Country Reports for Venezuela. You seem awfully eager to support the guy with rants of your own without much in the way of facts to back it up. Google "FARC" and "Chavez" and see what you come up with. It isn't just me.

Apparently in your eyes your populist hero can do no wrong. Less biased people have a different slant.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-17-10 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I'm asking you for any link you might have handy to post on Hugo Chavez' "disappeared" people.
Just post it so we may all learn what this fiend has done.

Thank you.
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IndianaJoe Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-10 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Well, here some. There's plenty out there if you're willing to look at it.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-10 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. That's not the way you do it. YOU go through your own links, FIND the passages proving your claim,
and post them, with the link, just the way the rest of us do.

Do NOT throw a cluster of crap at people claiming that's the evidence. Most of us have lives going on, and no time to sit and read all these reports to see if there's anything in them backing you up.

And don't EVER use VCrisis around sane people. Forget that one right away. It doesn't work.

Find your proof, post your proof, list your source.
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IndianaJoe Donating Member (664 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-10 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. OK....Here are some for you
<http://www.hrw.org/wr2k2/americas10.html> – Human Rights Watch - 2002

"In July, the Supreme Court granted a habeas corpus writ filed on behalf of Roberto Javier Hernández Paz, who "disappeared" after intelligence agents arrested him in his home in the state of Vargas in December 1999. The court ordered the prosecutor to renew investigations into Hernández' "disappearance" and bring to justice those responsible. Hernández was one of four people who "disappeared" when intelligence agents and army paratroopers committed serious abuses during efforts to control looting during flooding in Vargas state. In September the public prosecutor brought charges of enforced disappearance against Jose Yañez Casimiro, a DISIP officer implicated in the "disappearance" of Oscar Blanco Romero, and against Justiniano Martínez Carreño for covering up Blanco's illegal arrest."

<http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2007/100657.htm> -- State Department Country Report-Venezuela - 2008

"Human rights groups claimed that police officers sometimes disposed of their victims' bodies to avoid investigations. PROVEA recorded seven reports of disappearances allegedly involving security forces in the 12 months through September 2007.
There were no significant developments in the 2005 disappearance of Silvino Bustillos or in the 1999 forced disappearances of Oscar Blanco Romero, Roberto Hernandez Paz, and Jose Rivas Fernandez, for which the government acknowledged culpability in 2005.
<http://www.cidh.org/countryrep/Venezuela2009eng/VE09CHAPVIENG.htm>
-- Inter-American Commission on Human Rights, Organization of American States – Democracy and Human Rights in Venezuela – Chapter VI - 2009


“743. During 2008, the Office of the Human Rights Ombudsman recorded a total of 134 complaints involving arbitrary killings arising from the alleged actions of officers from different state security agencies. According to the report, 100% of the arbitrary killing complaints involved extrajudicial executions, and there were no complaints alleging deaths caused through the excessive use of force. The total figure is down from that reported in 2007, when 155 complaints were received, made up of 148 executions, three deaths through excessive use of force, and four as a result of torture or cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment.<651>

744. The report of the Human Rights Ombudsman indicates that most victims of extrajudicial killings were aged between 18 and 28 years (42.54%), followed by victims aged between 12 and 17 (19.40%). The agencies most frequently identified as the perpetrators of arbitrary executions were the state police forces of various regions, with a total of 65 complaints (48.51%); the Scientific, Criminal, and Criminalistic Investigations Corps, with 32 complaints (23.88%); and municipal police forces, with 17 complaints (12.69%).<652>

745. The report from the Office of the Human Rights Ombudsman describes a number of notorious cases involving police violations of the right to life. One of these cases occurred on April 29, 2009, when four officers of the Intelligence and Coordination Division of the Lara State Police Force informed the Attorney General’s Office about the deaths of two citizens, who were killed on the old El Tostado road in the Jalaito sector of Pavia, allegedly during a confrontation with the police. Subsequent investigations nevertheless revealed that the victims were two brothers – one a law student, and the other a farmer – and that their bodies were found with several gunshot wounds, scraped knees, and signs of torture.<653> According to statements made by the victims’ father, his children were executed by the police, and “they were not criminals, and they were not armed.” They had gone to a bank to deposit 22,000 bolivars and were later found dead.<654> In connection with the incident, four police officers were tried for the crime of aggravated homicide, with premeditation and for futile and ignoble reasons, and for improper use of firearms.<655>

746. Another case in the report narrates the actions of the police in the early morning hours of October 23, 2008, at Agua Clara stream, located at a resort in Chabasquén in the state of Portuguesa, where the bodies of six people were found, after presumably having been taken there from Sanare, in the state of Lara. The corpses belonged to four children, aged between 15 and 17, and two adults aged 18 and 39. In the same incident, another three adolescents of between 17 and 18 years of age were injured but managed to escape. In connection with this incident, in November 2008, the Attorney General’s Office Service accused 10 officers of the Lara State Armed Police Force of forced disappearance and aggravated homicide, with premeditation and for futile and ignoble reasons; attempted aggravated homicide, with premeditation and for futile and ignoble reasons; housebreaking by public officials; and the crimes of torture and immoral physical abuse, sexual abuse of minors, and breaches of international pacts and treaties, as provided for in the Organic Criminal Procedural Code and the Organic Law for the Protection of Children and Adolescents.<656>

747. In May 2008, police officers from the state of Táchira were involved in the death of eight citizens and the criminal injuring of another two in San Cristóbal, Táchira. The incident took place during the night of May 30, at the El Pedregal Pool Center, when ten heavily armed individuals, including police officers, arrived in cars and motorcycles and opened fire on the owners of the business and some of their customers. In November 2008, two officers were charged with the crimes of complicity in aggravated intentional homicide, criminal conspiracy, and violation of international pacts and covenants signed by the Republic.<657>

748. Another case that could be cited as an example of state violence involved three police officers from the state of Mérida and a chief inspector from the Directorate of Intelligence Services, who were implicated in the deaths of eight citizens and the criminal injuring of another in an incident that took place in Brisas de Onia” district, in El Vigía, Mérida, on January 24, 2009. Four of the victims were adolescents and the other four were aged between 19 and 21. According to information from the Attorney General’s Office, they were on the main street in the district when a van drove past from which they were fired upon several times, killing them. The state officials were accused of the crimes of aggravated homicide with premeditation, making use of a stolen vehicle, illegally changing registration plates, concealment of a military weapon, and criminal conspiracy.<658>

749. The report of the Office of the Human Rights Ombudsman for 2008 indicates that during that year, it recorded a total of 2,197 complaints involving violations of physical integrity committed by the State’s security forces. The report notes that this figure represents a fall of 11.9% over the 2007 level, when 2,494 complaints were made. According to the report, violations of physical integrity in Venezuela follow one of four patterns: abuses of authority; cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment; death threats; and torture. More than half the victims of violations of physical integrity at the hands of Venezuelan security officials were aged between 20 and 39.<659> “

<http://english.eluniversal.com/2010/03/12/en_ing_esp_the-case-of-eta-far_12A3575611.shtml> El Universal – English Language Edition – 3/12/10 – Interview with Fernando Gerbasi, Ex Vice-Minister of Foreign Affairs regarding Spanish Court’s Indictment

“The charges contained in the indictment of Judge Velasco are very serious because they refer to a plot to kill ex Colombian President (Andrés) Pastrana and Colombian President (Álvaro) Uribe. In addition, they note that ETA members trained in Venezuela FARC and FBL members on techniques and use of explosive devices, with the support and protection of Venezuelan security agencies. In the face of these charges, what could be Chávez's destiny?
In the worst scenario, he could have to appear in Hague International Criminal Court. Everything will depend on the progress of the charges. So far, we are looking at the tip of the iceberg.”


<http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2008/07/14/the-farc-narco-terrorism-and-hugo-chavez.html> - U.S. News & World Report, “The FARC, Narco-Terrorism, and Hugo Chávez” 7/14/08

"Much of the FARC's strength is derived from its protection of an illicit narcotics trade that channels cocaine to North American communities. But the recent hostage rescue has also drawn attention to the real role played by Venezuelan leader Hugo Chávez in using the FARC in an effort to destabilize the government of Colombia's President Alvaro Uribe, his regional archrival.

During a previous commando raid in March, which killed FARC second in command Raul Reyes at his Ecuador campsite, Colombian soldiers recovered files from Reyes's laptop showing, among other things, that high-ranking Venezuelans had schemed with the FARC to supply the group with high-tech weapons, ammunition, and a $300 million grant. The files also detailed plans to exploit the hostage issue for political gain.
Chávez's support for the FARC has been known and tolerated for some time. Indeed, Venezuela has been harboring the group's leaders, who have operated openly within Venezuela's borders. Chávez's ban on overflights by U.S. planes participating in antinarcotics operations in Colombia and his government's refusal to cooperate with the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration have also benefited the FARC immeasurably. It is no coincidence that during Chávez's presidency, Venezuela has turned into a major conduit for the transshipment of cocaine.

Despite the FARC's killing of thousands of civilians and its continued holding of 700 hostages, among them Venezuelans, the oil-rich Chávez government confessed its direct support for and solidarity with the region's most notorious terrorist group. During a speech this spring before Venezuela's congress and an assembled diplomatic corps, Chávez asked that the FARC be removed from U.S. and European terrorist lists, insisting that the group "deserves recognition" as "insurgent forces that have a political project, a Bolivarian project that is respected here."

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troubledamerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-17-10 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Your bias is toward Alvaro Uribe & his Death Squads & mass graves, which Chavez doesn't have.
Sorry. Facts are facts.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-10 03:54 AM
Response to Reply #12
19. Here's some material on "desaparecidos":
Edited on Tue May-18-10 04:02 AM by Judi Lynn
Making the ‘Disappeared’ Reappear
By Constanza Vieira

http://ipsnews.net.nyud.net:8090/fotos/Colombiacorpse.jpg
Carrion-eating bird on corpse
in Atrato River, Colombia.

BOGOTA, Jun 27 , 2008 (IPS) - "When they bring in (heads that still have) eyes, we close them, because it’s sad to see that look of terror, as if the killers were reflected in their glassy eyes. Those armed men stuck in the depth of the eyes of the dead scare us; they look like they want to kill us too.

"Because they ‘disappeared’ my brothers, tonight I’m waiting on the banks of the river, waiting for a body to come down, to make him my dead loved one. All of us women here in the port have lost someone, have had someone taken from us and killed, are widows and orphans.

"That is why we wait every day for the dead to be brought to us in the muddy waters, among the branches, to make them our brothers, fathers, husbands or sons…" reads the short story "Sin nombres, sin rostros ni rastros" (No Names, No Faces, No Traces) by Jorge Eliécer Pardo, the Colombian writer who won the "Without a Trace" national contest for short stories on forced disappearance this week.

The women in Pardo’s story collect the corpses, or pieces of bodies that have come floating down the river, gradually putting parts together until they have a complete body to "adopt" as their own family member, who is given the burial that they cannot offer their own missing loved ones.

The short story contest and a photography contest formed part of the three-day "Without a Trace" International Seminar on Forced Disappearance organised by the Fundación Dos Mundos (Two Worlds Foundation), which ended Friday.

"I have pulled dead people, even bodies without heads, from the Atrato river. I don’t know them, but I pull them to the bank so they can be buried, because it is a sad thing to see a human body being eaten by the ‘gallinazos’ (carrion crows)," Domingo Valencia, an amateur songwriter who lives on the banks of that river in the northwestern jungle province of Chocó, told IPS.

Dos Mundos, a local non-governmental organisation that supports young victims of violence and abuse, did not expect more than 50 stories to be submitted. But in the end, the jury had to decide between 427.

Reading them "was like opening Pandora’s box," journalist Guillermo González, a member of the jury, told IPS. He said he believes most of the stories are true accounts.

They contain "the hidden story, the one that isn't in the media, the one that reflects the tragedy of the families of the ‘disappeared’," he said, adding that he had to stop reading at 8:00 pm every night, "because if I didn't, I couldn't sleep."

In the stories, "there are no obvious, straightforward words denouncing atrocities, or morbid descriptions. Strangely, in this huge set of stories there is respect for words and for what happened, which is much harder-hitting than a raw description of what occurred," said González, the director of the Bogotá cultural magazine Número.

More:
http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=42993

~~~~~

Colombia Unearthing Plight of Its 'Disappeared'
By JUAN FORERO
Published: August 10, 2005

http://graphics8.nytimes.com.nyud.net:8090/images/2005/08/09/international/colo.184.1.jpg

Panos for The New York Times
One of the graves dug up by
Colombian authorities on El
Palmar, a big farm outside
San Onofre. The dead are
believed to be militia victims.

SAN ONOFRE, Colombia - In one of the most horrific chapters of Colombia's long civil conflict, investigators are unearthing scores of bodies from secret graves dotting this humid cattle-grazing region near the Caribbean, the victims of right-wing paramilitary groups now benefiting from generous concessions for pledging to disarm.

With dozens of people coming forward in recent months to complain of missing relatives, government and military officials now estimate that hundreds of poor farmers may have been killed and secretly buried in a terror campaign that began in the late 1990's.

The paramilitary groups, they say, kidnapped and killed their victims to seize land and in some cases weed out supporters of the Marxist guerrillas who have been fighting the government since the 1960's.

For years, fear kept the crimes hidden. But with the arrival this year of a new military commander who has secured the region, families finally began speaking out, despite lingering dangers that cost the life of one whistleblower earlier this year.

So far, 72 bodies have been recovered from El Palmar, a vast farm outside San Onofre that was used as a local base by the paramilitary forces, whose militias control several coastal states.

From the dark, moist earth, the authorities have also uncovered bodies in several other villages and are working to locate graves in five other states, said Elba Beatriz Silva, coordinator of the attorney general's human rights office, which is overseeing a gradual process of exhumations that may expand even further.

"A lot of people here have disappeared - sons, fathers, mothers, brothers," said Iván Wilches, 22, whose brother disappeared. "Every day there were people killed. They would pull them out of houses, breaking down doors. They would all wind up dead."

More:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/10/international/americas/10colombia.html

~~~~~

Colombia's Disappeared:
25 People a Week Go Missing
by Alfredo Castro

Bogota. The number of people being forcibly disappeared in Colombia each year is rapidly increasing and according to a local human rights organisation state sponsored forces, both official and unofficial, are responsible for over 99% of the cases.

New statistics released by the Colombian Association of the Families of the Detained and Disappeared -- known as ASFADDES -- show that last year some 1,283 people were taken away and have not been seen since. ASFADDES says that three of these people were disappeared by rebel groups while the remainder of the cases can be blamed predominantly on paramilitary and other state agents such as the army and police.

The average daily rate of disappearances in Colombia has increased from three to four over the past few years according to Gladys Avila Fonseca, the national coordinator of ASFADDES. Avila herself lost her brother Eduardo when he disappeared off a street in Bogota on April 20th 1993. Four days later, however, he was found dead outside the city having been severely tortured and since then she has dedicated her life to the cause of truth, justice and reparation at ASFADDES.

The statistics ASFADDES released show that between 1994 and 2001 there were 3,413 forced disappearances in Colombia. Gladys Avila also explained that ASFADDES has no way of knowing the true number of cases as their statistics only include those instances in which the family or friends of the victim denounce the crime, and that on many occasions, because of fear of reprisals, people stay silent.

More:
http://www.counterpunch.org/castro0729.html

~~~~~

Jan 28 2010
Army mass grave in La Macarena

Miami’s El Nuevo Herald and Spain’s Público have run stories in the past two days about a shocking find in La Macarena, about 200 miles south of Bogotá.

Residents say that after it entered the strongly guerrilla-controlled zone in the mid-2000s, Colombia’s Army began dumping unidentified bodies in a mass grave near a local cemetery. The grave may contain as many as 2,000 bodies.

Público reports:
Since 2005 the Army, whose elite units are deployed in the surrounding area, has been depositing behind the local cemetery hundreds of cadavers with the order that they be buried without names. …

Jurist Jairo Ramírez, the secretary of the Permanent Committee for the Defense of Human Rights in Colombia, accompanied a delegation of British legislators to the site several weeks ago, when the magnitude of the La Macarena grave began to be discovered. “What we saw was chilling,” he told Público. “An infinity of bodies, and on the surface hundreds of white wooden plaques with the inscription NN and dates from 2005 until today.”

Ramírez adds: “The Army commander told us that they were guerrillas killed in combat, but the people in the region told us of a multitude of social leaders, campesinos and community human rights defenders who disappeared without a trace.”
El Nuevo Herald reports:
A spokesman of the Prosecutor-General’s Office (Fiscalía) in Bogotá revealed to El Nuevo Herald that a mission from that institution’s Technical Investigations Corps (CTI) has already gone to the cemetery and confirmed the existence of “a large number” of cadavers in the grave, though it only made a few excavations.

“We became the site for the depositing of the war dead,” declared Eliécer Vargas Moreno, mayor of the municipality. …

Residents of La Macarena interviewed over the phone by El Nuevo Herald, under the promise that their identities would not be revealed, expressed their suspicion that among the bodies are relatives who disappeared during the last four years. They denied that the bodies are those of guerrillas and asked for the chance to prove it.
More:
http://www.cipcol.org/?p=1303

ETC.




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troubledamerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-17-10 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. "Disappeared" in Venezuela? LOL
You have obviously mixed-up Venezuela with Colombia.

I see elsewhere you refuse to cite one example, or link. Vague talk of "Human Rights Watch" doesn't cut it without a link.

"I didn't say Chavez was Hitler, I just compared him to the Nazis that's all" -- whatta clown.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-10 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Contrary to popular misinformed history, Hitler was never elected.
He was appointed. And did his dirty work from there.
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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-17-10 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
16. Bush got re-elected nt
Edited on Mon May-17-10 09:38 PM by rpannier
on edit: Cochran, Hatch and Imhofe do as well
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subsuelo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-18-10 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. No he didn't. (nt)
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-16-10 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
9. Good.
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