Obama's War of Choice: Did the president mislead the American people about Libya?

[Prometheus Bound]

Obama's War of Choice

Did the president mislead the American people about Libya?

Steve Chapman, April 4, 2011

<snip>

Obama implied that, absent our intervention, Gadhafi might have killed nearly 700,000 people, putting it in a class with the 1994 genocide in Rwanda. White House adviser Dennis Ross was only slightly less alarmist when he reportedly cited "the real or imminent possibility that up to a 100,000 people could be massacred."

But these are outlandish scenarios that go beyond any reasonable interpretation of Gadhafi's words. He said, "We will have no mercy on them"—but by "them," he plainly was referring to armed rebels ("traitors") who stand and fight, not all the city's inhabitants.

"We have left the way open to them," he said. "Escape. Let those who escape go forever." He pledged that "whoever hands over his weapons, stays at home without any weapons, whatever he did previously, he will be pardoned, protected."

Alan Kuperman, an associate professor at the University of Texas' Lyndon B. Johnson School of Public Affairs, is among those unconvinced by Obama's case. "Gadhafi," he told me, "did not massacre civilians in any of the other big cities he captured—Zawiyah, Misratah, Ajdabiya—which together have a population equal to Benghazi. Yes, civilians were killed in a typical, ham-handed Third World counter-insurgency. But civilians were not targeted for massacre as in Rwanda, Darfur, Burundi, the Democratic Republic of Congo, Bosnia or even Kosovo after NATO intervention."

More: http://reason.com/archives/2011/04/04/obamas-war-of-choice

Same article, different title
Did Obama avert a bloodbath in Libya?
Panicking over a dubious threat
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-04-03/news/ct-oped-0403-chapman-20110403_1_rwandan-genocide-moammar-gadhafi-massacre

[aquart]

1. Nice slight of hand.

"Yes, civilians were killed in a typical, ham-handed Third World counter-insurgency." But since it wasn't Rwanda, what's the fuss?

The fuss is that the new Arab Spring leadership was pushing for the intervention. The fuss is that older Arab leadership wanted something to prove they deserved to stay in power.

But PR is not a reason for an intervention in the public mind so the leadership lies. THIS IS THE KIND OF LIE I ELECTED OBAMA TO TELL.

American interests. The Middle East is a-shakin' and we want to make sure it doesn't shake us off. Those who say "oil" and depart smugly satisfied with their understanding don't begin to understand.

Going into Libya is our good faith to Egypt, and to the others even though we don't intervene for them.

The new kids are pushing to take over in places they've never been. They may lose but they may win. Certainly, they'll make mistakes. We want them to know they can turn to us. International Relations 101.

[Prometheus Bound]

2. "THIS IS THE KIND OF LIE I ELECTED OBAMA TO TELL."

That just doesn't sound right, somehow.

[aquart]

4. True, though.

This is a diplomatic situation and that is the planet of polite and careful lies.

[texshelters]

12. Yes, we want

them to know they can turn on us.

This intervention is not going to turn out well for Obama. It can't be the only option here. Yes, he has to go, but at what expense? And yes, presidents exaggerate.

Peace,
Tex Shelters

[Kalun D]

3. I Was Lukewarm

about the bombing, until I found out they used DU munitions

now I think it's just more MIMC warmongering greed pig profit SH*T.

[guruoo]

5. Libyan wounded: "You have to visit Misrata to see the massacre by Gaddafi,"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4800047

[jakeXT]

6. ah well someone independent should really look into it

Race and Arab Nationalism in Libya

”The Sudanese, the Chadians were massacred. We saw it ourselves.”

U.S. corporate media are sure about certain things in Libya, and admit total ignorance of others – which makes for an uninspiring mix. They are sure that Muamar Khadafi is hated by the vast majority of the Libyan people, whose sentiments, the western media all but unanimously believe, are expressed by the “rebels” that have taken Benghazi and other major cities. These same media, including correspondents that spend literally all their waking moments chronicling the rebels’ every move and utterance, have no inkling of the politics that animates these people, beyond opposition to the regime and an undeniable Arab and Libyan nationalism.

What has become apparent from reports filtering out of the country is that many of the 1.5 million black African migrant workers trapped in Libya feel themselves under racial siege, hunted by what Black Americans would immediately recognize as lynch mobs – “pogrom” is another word that springs to mind – especially in the rebel-held areas.

The testimony of black African victims is most disturbing. "We were being attacked by local people who said that we were mercenaries killing people. Let me say that they did not want to see black people," 60-year-old Julius Kiluu, an African building supervisor, told Reuters. Even in Tripoli, where the regime is not in full control of neighborhoods, Somalis told journalists they were “being hunted on suspicion of being mercenaries” and “feel trapped and frightened to go out.” Ethiopians told of being “dragged from their apartments, beaten up and showed to the world as mercenaries.” Ethiopian News and Opinions reported that “Muammar Gadhafi haters are taking revenge on black Africans for money Gadhafi threw for many African dictators. The mob attacked and killed many Africans including Ethiopians for being only black.”

http://www.blackagendareport.com/content/race-and-arab-nationalism-libya

[Keith Bee]

7. No

NEXT!

[Prometheus Bound]

8. What indication is there that Gadhafi might have killed nearly 700,000 people?

[bhikkhu]

13. What is the indication that Obama said Gadhafi might have killed 700,000 people

not to be too persnickety, but the article provides no quotes and I don't recall the president ever saying that.

I did, on the other hand, read twitter feeds from Benghazi implying that, and Libya's UN envoy did imply that based on the population of Benghazi, and Gadhafi sounded like he would have been fine with that number in the speech he gave the day before the UN resolution...

[JohnWxy]

9. utter and complete horseshit.

.."He pledged that "whoever hands over his weapons, stays at home without any weapons, whatever he did previously, he will be pardoned, protected.""


chapman is actually saying you can trust Gadhafi? Complete bullshit.

Everybody knew there would be a bloodbath if Gadhafi wasn't stopped. Maybe it would have only been 10,000 killed. Yeah, that woulda been okay then.

right-wing vomit.

oh yeah, unrecommended.

[Prometheus Bound]

10. But where is the evidence that 100,000 or 700,000 would be killed?

Where is the evidence that your guess of 10,000 would have been killed. The rebels supposedly had only 1000 fighters.

Who is Everybody? As far as I can tell, the claim came from one man.

What purpose would it serve the government troops to massacre the inhabitants of one of the country's largest cities?

We have to question the war propaganda at some point.

[JohnWxy]

11. "evidence that x00,000s "would be" killed? I don't think there is such a thing as

"evidence" that something WILL happen in the future. Events were definitely leading many to conclude Gaddaffi was good for his word to "cleanse Libya house by house."

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f1fc5fbe-3f36-11e0-8e48-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1Ih9ifXoC">The shooting in Tripoli came a day after Col Gaddafi ordered his supporters in a threatening 75-minute televised speech to “cleanse Libya house by house”.- Feb 24

http://beforeitsnews.com/story/432/883/Death_Toll_Over_1,000,_Gaddafi_Protesters_Vow_Fight_To_End,_Security_Council_Emergency_Session,_Violence_Continues.html">Death Toll Over 1,000, Gaddafi & Protesters Vow "Fight To End," Security Council Emergency Session, Violence Continues - Feb 20


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/17/gaddafi-benghazi-libya-news_n_837245.html">the Libyan leader denounced the rebels and said: "We will show no mercy and no pity to them".

If you are saying Obama intensionally deceived us you are saying he knew that there would not be any deaths, or there would be an "acceptable level" of deaths. How do you know that HE knew that Gaddaffi would NOT kill many Libyans? Before we enforced a no-fly zone the http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704838804576196681609529882.html">Arab league called for it.